Small Holder Farming

[visarunner]

Went through my records , but lost all due a house move.

I remember two structures , entirely enclosed with Airventilation etc , enough to hold xxx chicken was THB 1.4m/each .

Place would have been in Pak Thong Chai (Khorat province), land was familyproperty , so was not covered in the calculation.

First batch of chickens appr 40-60k each.

Contract with CP , as they have a Processing plant nereby , means they would buy the chicken from you @ prefixed price.

Of course the eggs are for you own sale.

[Nawtilus]

So where is the fruit ?? Looks more like a flower than a fruit. What does it taste like and is it a local popular fruit or internationally.

As for Ostrich meat, never had ostrich, but Emu is awesome. I remember sitting on the Nullabor plain several years ago the first night after departing Perth and with some Emu steaks. Sat under the stars, started the fire and bbq'd them. Besides a young Buffalo steak, this was the next best meat I have ever had, better than Beef and Lamb put together and this is coming from someone who loves beef and lamb.

[Issangeorge]

Teletiger, can Dragon Fruit handle the Issan raining season? There is an awfull lot of rain from June to October. Issangeorge.

[teletiger]

George,

This year has been a pretty wet monsoon so far. For us in Khao Yai it started back in February. The posts are built up on mounds. As long as they are not waterlogged for too long they do fine. They are very tough plants. They take up water through a central woody tube, so even if the lower part of the plant may rot away to the tube, the upper plant just keeps on growing. Too much water will make the

flower bud rot though.

Regards

[chownah]

I went out to learn about ostrich growing and found this site:

http://www.world-ostrich.org/chile2003/chi...production.html

One thing it said is that the average performance for the meat was about $85 per bird at 14 months of age in 2003...I'm assuming this is US $ but they don't say that specifically...they do imply this though.

[bina]

done issaan style, bbq'd, and parts chopped with all the spices etc.... he was a bit tough, being fairly old but still tasty, we had a meal for 13 people!!!

all the big ostrich farms went out of business at about the same time last year or so... it was a get rich quick scheme for many kibbutzim that didnt pan out i'm not sure why... now goat dairies are the big thing (boutique cheeses etc)...

seems to me that ostriches like alpacas etc are fad agriculture projects and only people with real experience can deal with fad agriculture...

we (not the petting zoo, the kibbutz agric. people) just recently went to do one chicken coop of 'natural' chickens (i.e. no additives in food etc, but not free range or organic)... the kibbutz closed the project after one set of chick to sale finished; i think it wasnt profitable enough for the amount of work (we are state of the art chicken growers here including all the artificial lighting for optimal fattening biosecurity etc etc ) although it seemed that the market was waiting for this type of chicken...

[RamdomChances]

Went through my records , but lost all due a house move.

I remember two structures , entirely enclosed with Airventilation etc , enough to hold xxx chicken was THB 1.4m/each .

Place would have been in Pak Thong Chai (Khorat province), land was familyproperty , so was not covered in the calculation.

First batch of chickens appr 40-60k each.

Contract with CP , as they have a Processing plant nereby , means they would buy the chicken from you @ prefixed price.

Of course the eggs are for you own sale.

Sounds about right on the "shed" probably something like 10-15,000 for that money, mabey closer to 2 mill/shed now. Even if you own the land, you still need to think about water, generators, electricity supply, just those three could set you back an other 500,000.

Everyone I know with chicken farms (we used to deliver food to lots, my brother-in-law still does and a frind of mine had one) does not buy the chickens, they are just deliverd from CP or one of the other big companies, when you sell them after 45 days you get paid for the weight increase, no eggs either as they are sold before they mature. You have a down time of 10 days every 45 day cycle, airing and cleaning the shed. My mate reconed on his I think 15,000 shed he was making something like 40,000 (and I think he was exagerating) but this is every 55 days not month. They are heavy on electricity and water, you can expect about 10-15% mortality in the chickens as well. A generator with the propper (expensive) controls and switching gear is essencial as any sudden drops in temperature and your chics will die.

The banks used to love lending money for chicken farms as all of it went on infrastructure, I'd advise anyone thinking about one to do it with someone elses money If it truns to crap, just give it to the bank. The big aggro companies have been pushing pig farming a lot since the outbreak of bird flu, done on very simular grounds to the chickens, the banks also like pig farms.

Basicly you just end up as a sub contracter for CP, you have to buy your feed, medicen ect off them, build the farm to their spec, it makes it relitivly risk free for the big companies, but not for you.

I've seen quite a few Ostrich farms around all closed if I remember correctly it was once promoted by the Gov as an alternative means of farming, but fail to have a mass impact, it's probaly around as a nice market now, but I don't really know much about it

[Korat Correct]

Being a smallholder is great fun if you don't weaken but its demanding.

Think self sufficency. Grow your own fruit, veg and nuts. Keep hens,ducks, pigs and and a cow if you want to be ambitious but only do what you might enjoy as you will have both success and failures to cope with.

Forget making a living from 4 rai and forget farming if you have no irrigation system in place.

[bina]

anybody there think of 'fad' or 'boutiqui' agri. such as quails or other game birds, etc???

we are just starting with quails for the fun of it at the zoo; but there is a big market among the gourmet places for the super rich for the quail eggs/and the quail (4= one portion!!) and they are fairly non demanding, small etc.... could be an interesting source of pocket money if u can find buyers (not issaan folk but dont the fancy hi/so people look for unusual and expensive food items to waste money on?usually they are sold pickled for use in hoity toity restaraunts).... they are also good for what korat correct says: their eggs are good eating, they are easily kept etc... good for a self suffiency farm (we collect and eat every two days; the rest go to a small non automatic hatchery that anyone can keep in the house provided u have constant electricity (or a willing small bantam hen).

just a wierd thought

bina

israel

[LoveDaBlues]

Frankafey - couple of nice articles there - I liked the one about Metal/Steel in the Field - thanks for that link.

Dukes

Okay - some feedback from a neighbour who has an egg farm a few km's down the road.

Question - can you make a profit from 500 hundred hens?

As a hobby with alternative forms of income coming in - fine.

As a commercial enterprize for all income, no.

You could start with 500 hens - to see what involved but untill you get to around 3000 - 4000 hensyou won't be seeing a profit. ...... and this is from a guy who lives a pretty modest Thai rural lifestyle.

He gets on average 2800 eggs a day (from 3600 hens), uses family labour (to keep costs down)

Has a contract for all production - they go to a petfood factory and bakery.

All feed is commercial (only way he says he can sustain viable egg production rates).

Clears out between 10 - 15 dead hens a day (a natural & within average daily loss for Thai egg farms ).

Gets good quality stock from a guy who imports from Malaysia (these are the big rusty red colured hens you see -or don't because the real big commercial farms keep them in closed barns)

Monthly earnings - "San - San Qua" - meaning "Bht 100k to 100k & a bit" p/mnth (after all expenses associated with maintaining the hens).

Something to think about...

Tim

This is why it's almost impossible for a farang to compete with the Thai. They have no labor costs and are happy with a small profit. When the farang has to pay labor costs he can't compete with the Thai. The only way would be to have a HUGE operation with enough cash flow to hire the workers needed. Who is willing to invest a large chunk of money in a biz that may/may not suceed?

Even my Thai landlord (who is quite smart, owns many houses, a lot of land etc.) constantly bitches about labor costs. I originally thought this to be strange as labor is so cheap by Western standards.

[bina]

thats the whole thing; labour is cheap by western standards if u have dollars and pay in baht; however, if u make baht and have to pay in baht, its not cheap - its all relative

[JungleBiker]

anybody there think of 'fad' or 'boutiqui' agri. such as quails or other game birds, etc???

we are just starting with quails for the fun of it at the zoo; but there is a big market among the gourmet places for the super rich for the quail eggs/and the quail (4= one portion!!) and they are fairly non demanding, small etc.... could be an interesting source of pocket money if u can find buyers (not issaan folk but dont the fancy hi/so people look for unusual and expensive food items to waste money on?usually they are sold pickled for use in hoity toity restaraunts).... they are also good for what korat correct says: their eggs are good eating, they are easily kept etc... good for a self suffiency farm (we collect and eat every two days; the rest go to a small non automatic hatchery that anyone can keep in the house provided u have constant electricity (or a willing small bantam hen).

just a wierd thought

bina

israel

Hi Bina, I think if "Nok kataa" are quails then these are already commercially farmed in Thailand. The eggs sell for about 1 - 2 baht each and are commony eaten in a soup dish by all classes of people in Isaan and elsewhere.

[teletiger]

Hi Bina, I think if "Nok kataa" are quails then these are already commercially farmed in Thailand. The eggs sell for about 1 - 2 baht each and are commony eaten in a soup dish by all classes of people in Isaan and elsewhere.

I thought Nok Kataa was a pigeon.

regards

[Maizefarmer]

TT

Quails are Nohk Grataa (or Nok Kataa) นกกระทา , and pigeons are Nohk Pihrahp พิราบ.

The eggs are commercially farmed and as TT says, are a popular addition to soups - simply as an egg added, or as is often the way they are served in soups (in Isaan at least): boiled first, peeled and wrapped in ground pork, to be boiled again or deep fried. They cost next to nothing - nothing fancy about them here - more likely to be eaten by peasent farmer.

Tim

[LoveDaBlues]

If the eggs are commercially farmed is there anywhere I can buy processed quail? And what does a Thai quail look like lol......

[Maizefarmer]

Processed quail - you do mean, cleaned & plucked as one would buy a fresh chicken in the market - look around your local daily market. Go the the fresh chicken seller and ask them to point out the stall where quail is sold - if they don't sell themselves, they're sure to know.

Or look for the quail egg seller - who'll be able to tell you where to get the birds from.

They are still around - despite farm stocks been decimated by the bird flu.

If you are looking for "processed" - as in packed and wrapped - what sort of quantity would you be looking for - an ice box full or a truck full.

When I said commercial, perhaps I gave the impression of large commercial chicken farm size operations. I dont beleive there are any that size (at lest none I know of up around Loei).

The 2 quail farms I know of around Loei (where various types of wild fowl, pheasent and wild duck are also kept) are not that size, but very much smaller, with I guess around 1000 - 2000 birds at most.

Tim

[Maizefarmer]

Correction - there is one big commercial type - in the true sense of "commercial" quail farm at:

Anake Quail Farm

57/1 Moo 2

Tambon Pa Ngiel

Ang Thong 14000

Tel 035 611444

01 6525686

[LoveDaBlues]

Processed quail - you do mean, cleaned & plucked as one would buy a fresh chicken in the market - look around your local daily market. Go the the fresh chicken seller and ask them to point out the stall where quail is sold - if they don't sell themselves, they're sure to know.

Or look for the quail egg seller - who'll be able to tell you where to get the birds from.

They are still around - despite farm stocks been decimated by the bird flu.

If you are looking for "processed" - as in packed and wrapped - what sort of quantity would you be looking for - an ice box full or a truck full.

When I said commercial, perhaps I gave the impression of large commercial chicken farm size operations. I dont beleive there are any that size (at lest none I know of up around Loei).

The 2 quail farms I know of around Loei (where various types of wild fowl, pheasent and wild duck are also kept) are not that size, but very much smaller, with I guess around 1000 - 2000 birds at most.

Tim

Tim, I live in Udon Thani and looking for cleaned & plucked for personal consumption. I'll take your advice and go to the markets......let the TW haggle the price of course.

[bina]

hey!! thanx, didnt think that they would be a regular cheap food item; not a very cost effective bird, small, and need lots of them for one portion

here, they are mainly on the wedding, party and gourmet menus; the eggs are a shekel a piece (8 baht!)

what size are they sold as?? what breed?? our hens dont sit the eggs, most quail owners nanny them off on a bantam hen or hatchery for 21 days...

they get different and less common diseases then chickens, u need one male to 4 females in a group,

its probably cheaper for personal consumption to raise your own; kids like to take care of them, they are small, smell less then chickens and need less space...

i'm now going for chinese quails just for beauty (too small to eat, when they are born they are the size of a bumblebee), in a box in my garden

[Nawtilus]

regards

I could not remember what this fruit tasted like, so kept an eye out for it recently and found some samples in a shop.

The one I tasted was the white fruit, nothing really special in my books, but maybe they vary in taste and this was just a not so good one.

Are they supposed to be sweet, or plain, or bitter or what ?? What is the difference between the red and the white ?

I saw them for sale on the sidewalk in Pratunam yesterday for 39b and in Tops for 49b a kilo.

[teletiger]

Nawt,

they should be sweet. Vietnam dragonfruit: red skin, white flesh, medium sweet/sweet. Taiwan dragonfruit: red skin, red flesh, sweet. Packed with vitamin C. Top selling ice-cream in Oz. (so my Brisbane mate tells me)

Regards

[Nawtilus]

Ok, have to try the red one, the white one as I said was very plain and uninteresting.

[Mobaan]

Go to MACRO in Udon and buy as much as you want deep frozen

Processed quail - you do mean, cleaned & plucked as one would buy a fresh chicken in the market - look around your local daily market. Go the the fresh chicken seller and ask them to point out the stall where quail is sold - if they don't sell themselves, they're sure to know.

Or look for the quail egg seller - who'll be able to tell you where to get the birds from.

They are still around - despite farm stocks been decimated by the bird flu.

If you are looking for "processed" - as in packed and wrapped - what sort of quantity would you be looking for - an ice box full or a truck full.

When I said commercial, perhaps I gave the impression of large commercial chicken farm size operations. I dont beleive there are any that size (at lest none I know of up around Loei).

The 2 quail farms I know of around Loei (where various types of wild fowl, pheasent and wild duck are also kept) are not that size, but very much smaller, with I guess around 1000 - 2000 birds at most.

Tim

Tim, I live in Udon Thani and looking for cleaned & plucked for personal consumption. I'll take your advice and go to the markets......let the TW haggle the price of course.