Give encroached land to the poor – Phuket vice-governor

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Give encroached land to the poor – Phuket vice-governor
Nattapat Tuarob


Forestry officials inspect illegally felled timber in the Bang Kanoon Forest in September 20132. Inset – vice gov Somkiet

PHUKET: -- The island’s senior vice-governor has proposed a radical solution to encroachment on public land by poor people: give it to them.

Vice Governor Somkiet Sangkhaosuttirak was speaking with The Phuket News after a meeting he chaired on Wednesday (January 7) to try to resolve the issue of public land encroachment on Phuket.

Phuket has a total of 22,613 rai of public land spread across the province, much of it encroached upon, but the meeting initially focused on 805 rai of Forest Preserve in the Phrom Thep Cape area, all of which is occupied by individuals or businesses, it was revealed.

The meeting also tried to address who should take responsibility for ensuring that details held in the Land Office should match exactly with those held by district offices match, which is not the case at present.

The 805 rai at Phrom Thep Cape is only one area out of a total of 124 in Phuket that have been encroached on. The land is believed to have been encroached on by poor people and by businesses.

V/Gov Somkiat said that it needed to be worked out if the areas of land in question have been occupied or even become land with Chanote freehold titles.

“An example, where is the Khao Kad Forest Preserve? Can you point it out? We can see where it should be according to the maps, but in reality how many rai are left?” he asked.

“Sometimes, a Chanote has even been issued for an area of land situated in the middle of preserved land.

“The issue of public land is becoming tiring. We should not make the District Office alone responsible for this. I know they are tired.”

He suggested that a committee should be set up for each district, chaired by the district chief and including all the relevant officials.

He pointed out that Phrom Thep is not the only problem area. “Is it true that we have 32 areas of public land left in Thalang?” he asked. “How many do we actually have?

“I think when we research this – which will take some time – we may also face problems from locals who claim the land. In the past, when government officials have gone to investigate, they have been opposed by local people who claim that they lived on the land before the laws becoming applicable.”

He said that there were two main obstacles to reclaiming public land – the budget for surveying and problems such as Phrom Thep Cape where every part of the public land had been encroached on.

“The fact is that the amount of land shown in the paperwork doesn’t match with what is in the database. We need to accept that 805 Rai in the Phrom Thep Cape area has been encroached on.

“It will be very hard to take back public land that has already been encroached on. We can’t simply push the people off it.

“If the matter goes to court it will never end, or not in our lifetime.

“The truth is, these people who have lived on these areas of land are Thai so in a sense it belongs to them. It’s public land but these people have nowhere else to go, and we don’t know how to deal with that.

“So do you have the courage to bring it up in meetings and fix it, or will you simply abandon the problem?”

After the meeting, V/Gov Somkiet told The Phuket News, “We need to take the first step. Personally, I think we should cancel the public land status and give ownership of the land to the people who are on it.

“I have known about this problem for a long time. Government officers have previously done nothing about it and have let people live on public land for 20 to 30 years. I don’t understand why they have started to arrest them now and not before?

“It’s a very hard task, but I will try my hardest to resolve it.”

Source: http://www.thephuketnews.com/give-encroached-land-to-the-poor-phuket-vice-governor-50503.php


-- Phuket News 2015-01-12

[Pomthai]

Hmm. Let me get this straight.

Step 1. Find Public land

Step 2. Move onto said land and open a business.

Step 3. Feign ignorance and wait.

Step 4. Wait some more but definitely never move off the land.

Step 5. Once officials are asking you to produce documents for land, it is time to produce a Chanote, for somewhere else completely different and irrelevant.

Step 6. Wait some more (They're getting sleepy now)

Step 7. Remember patience and continue waiting (So so tired)

Step 8. Officials are too tired to continue the investigation, congratulations.

Step 9. Repeat steps 1 through 8 if you wake up one morning and decide you want more land.

I thought all the confusion was because of Thainess, I was wrong, its tiredness.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Pomthai

[NamKangMan]

Hmm. Let me get this straight.

Step 1. Find Public land

Step 2. Move onto said land and open a business.

Step 3. Feign ignorance and wait.

Step 4. Wait some more but definitely never move off the land.

Step 5. Once officials are asking you to produce documents for land, it is time to produce a Chanote, for somewhere else completely different and irrelevant.

Step 6. Wait some more (They're getting sleepy now)

Step 7. Remember patience and continue waiting (So so tired)

Step 8. Officials are too tired to continue the investigation, congratulations.

Step 9. Repeat steps 1 through 8 if you wake up one morning and decide you want more land.

I thought all the confusion was because of Thainess, I was wrong, its tiredness.

You forgot a few steps.

Step 10. Once you have the chanote title, you sell the land.

Step 11. You then drink and gamble all the money away.

Step 12. You get a job as a tuk-tuk driver and argue that Phuket "owes" you a livelihood.

[monkeycountry]

Don't give any land to anyone. Owned land can and will be sold. Let the poor use it for a small symbolic rental fee, one year at a time, but let the land papers belong to the government. This way the poor cannot just sell it, and the rich will not be interested in buying it in order to build anything, as they know the land papers belong to the government, who can revoke the lease as soon as they find out something is wrong.

Further, if the poor do not own the land, then they also cannot pawn it and thereby lose it in card games etc., so this solution also protects many poor people from their own stupidity.

I assume the intention is for the poor to grow crops on the land or run a small business, and if that is the case, then it should not matter to them, at least not financially, whether they own it or rent if from the government for a very small fee, but renting it likely means they will get to keep the land alot longer than if they own it and thereby end up selling it, pawning it or gambling it away.

In case the encroached land is forest land, it should be returned to forest land, and not given to anyone, not even the poor.

Edited January 12, 2015 by monkeycountry

[Tatsujin]

Don't give any land to anyone. Owned land can and will be sold. Let the poor use it for a small symbolic rental fee, one year at a time, but let the land papers belong to the government. This way the poor cannot just sell it, and the rich will not be interested in buying it in order to build anything, as they know the land papers belong to the government, who can revoke the lease as soon as they find out something is wrong.

Further, if the poor do not own the land, then they also cannot pawn it and thereby lose it in card games etc., so this solution also protects many poor people from their own stupidity.

I assume the intention is for the poor to grow crops on the land or run a small business, and if that is the case, then it should not matter to them, at least not financially, whether they own it or rent if from the government for a very small fee, but renting it likely means they will get to keep the land alot longer than if they own it and thereby end up selling it, pawning it or gambling it away.

In case the encroached land is forest land, it should be returned to forest land, and not given to anyone, not even the poor.

Makes sense, but that's far too sensible a suggestion for them to ever implement. They're too tired don't forget, this working malarkey and doing the job you're paid to do, is just so much hard work.

[LivinginKata]

“The truth is, these people who have lived on these areas of land are Thai so in a sense it belongs to them. It’s public land but these people have nowhere else to go, and we don’t know how to deal with that.

In a Thai sense ? People have nowhere else to go ?

For sure they should never ever be given full land title. Yes, maybe live and use the land. Sell that land - NO.

[cracker1]

PHUKET NEWS: -- The island’s senior vice-governor has proposed a radical solution to encroachment on public land by poor people: give it to them.

If This man is the "senior vice-governor" does this mean there are several "junior vice governors" and presumably, a Governor overseeing his juniors ?
Seems a bit of an "over staffing situation" !

[mike324]

They should take an example on how the lands are managed that belongs to the Royal Household. I rented a plot of land from them and the monthly fee is very low, authorities are straight as an arrow and everything is managed very well, probably one of the few corruption free agencies that deals with the public in Thailand.