Traditional medicine can reduce heavy-metal contamination: Phichit Governor

[BigBadGeordie]

And a long list of bitter old guys find something else about Thailand to go off on a rant about.

Not true.

But I can see where you are coming from.

Crap is crap, no matter where it originates.

[Choctastic]

There is no cure for Ebola, yet the news reports that people recover from it. It is not a miracle.

No one yet knows why 50% of Ebola patients die and 50% do not. There is a reason and the method of science will find it eventually. The methods of alternative medicine never find answers or reasons, they are not looking.

I do not believe in miracles. I believe in testing my beliefs and abandoning anything that doesn't prove true.

If you can't say the same you need to ask yourself why.

Your faith in science and 'proof' is misplaced. I have pointed to research which shows much of the 'science' you think you can rely on, is manipulated. I have pointed out the massive numbers dying at the hands of modern 'quackery'. I have pointed out that it is impossible to test natural systems using the methodology demanded by the anti-competitive, profit-driven, western gatekeepers and I probably should point out the number of conditions scientific medicine has declared 'incurable' to show what a failure it is. Putting in a stent is not a 'cure'. Burning, poisoning and mutilation are not 'cures' because many times they kill the patient. Chemo is only 2.1% effective overall toward 5 year survival rates. If that isn't quackery I don't know what is. It is also criminal.

Your ebola example is not a chronic or degenerative disorder.

If you want proof that natural methods of healing work, then look up Dean Ornish. His methods, taught to him by a 'quack' alternative Doctor' in India, have been PROVEN to reverse heart disease. If you haven't heard about it, you might ask your Doctor why not? The monopolists don't want you to know there ARE alternatives that work, that is why you aren't offered it. Ornish's methods are not even the full monty. His program is a cut down version of what could be done using non-toxic, non-invasive methods. I can think of several ways healing could be accelerated.

75% of conditions that plague mankind are chronic and degenerative disorders that modern medicine, by its own admission, can do little about. Considering the trillions spent, over the last few decades, that is not a measure of success but failure.

To keep denigrating alternatives is either ignorance or mischief. A number of CAM therapies have been introduced into mainstream medicine. I regard them as minor but it's a start.

You appear to know very little about the real workings of medicine and quite clearly know little of natural methods of healing.

[heybruce]

There is no cure for Ebola, yet the news reports that people recover from it. It is not a miracle.

No one yet knows why 50% of Ebola patients die and 50% do not. There is a reason and the method of science will find it eventually. The methods of alternative medicine never find answers or reasons, they are not looking.

I do not believe in miracles. I believe in testing my beliefs and abandoning anything that doesn't prove true.

If you can't say the same you need to ask yourself why.

Your faith in science and 'proof' is misplaced. I have pointed to research which shows much of the 'science' you think you can rely on, is manipulated. I have pointed out the massive numbers dying at the hands of modern 'quackery'. I have pointed out that it is impossible to test natural systems using the methodology demanded by the anti-competitive, profit-driven, western gatekeepers and I probably should point out the number of conditions scientific medicine has declared 'incurable' to show what a failure it is. Putting in a stent is not a 'cure'. Burning, poisoning and mutilation are not 'cures' because many times they kill the patient. Chemo is only 2.1% effective overall toward 5 year survival rates. If that isn't quackery I don't know what is. It is also criminal.

Your ebola example is not a chronic or degenerative disorder.

If you want proof that natural methods of healing work, then look up Dean Ornish. His methods, taught to him by a 'quack' alternative Doctor' in India, have been PROVEN to reverse heart disease. If you haven't heard about it, you might ask your Doctor why not? The monopolists don't want you to know there ARE alternatives that work, that is why you aren't offered it. Ornish's methods are not even the full monty. His program is a cut down version of what could be done using non-toxic, non-invasive methods. I can think of several ways healing could be accelerated.

75% of conditions that plague mankind are chronic and degenerative disorders that modern medicine, by its own admission, can do little about. Considering the trillions spent, over the last few decades, that is not a measure of success but failure.

To keep denigrating alternatives is either ignorance or mischief. A number of CAM therapies have been introduced into mainstream medicine. I regard them as minor but it's a start.

You appear to know very little about the real workings of medicine and quite clearly know little of natural methods of healing.

"I have pointed to research which shows much of the 'science' you think you can rely on, is manipulated. I have pointed out the massive numbers dying at the hands of modern 'quackery'."

I don't recall any credible sources or references for these claims.

"I have pointed out that it is impossible to test natural systems using the methodology demanded by the anti-competitive, profit-driven, western gatekeepers..."

I recall you posted that before, and I asked if you expect us to accept on faith that alternative medicine works. You never answered. So I assume that you do expect us to accept alternative medicine as an act of faith.

"If you want proof that natural methods of healing work, then look up Dean Ornish. His methods, taught to him by a 'quack' alternative Doctor' in India, have been PROVEN to reverse heart disease."

I did a quick google of the name, WebMD agrees that the diet recommended by Dr Ornish improves health, but then it's no surprise that a healthy diet is good for health. Can you provide a reference to support your claim that it reverses heart disease?

"75% of conditions that plague mankind are chronic and degenerative disorders that modern medicine, by its own admission, can do little about."

I'm curious where the 75% figure comes from. Are these chronic and degenerative disorders that have only existed since modern medicine became predominant, or were they also a problem during the many centuries when alternative medicine was the norm? Can you identify a chronic or degenerative disease that alternative medicine can be shown to treat with good results?

Earlier this evening I had dinner with a Thai friend who told me her father had been having problems with nausea and dizziness. He went to a doctor who ran the usual tests and was told there was nothing wrong with him. He then went to a spirit medium who told him that a ghost was asking him for beer, food, and Coke. My friends father made the recommended offering (I didn't ask how he gave food and drink to the ghost) and the nausea and dizziness ended.

I think he benefited from a placebo effect, but of course that would be difficult to prove. I'm curious, do you think offering food and drink to a ghost is a viable form of alternative medicine?

Edited February 1, 2015 by heybruce

[Choctastic]

I'm curious, do you think offering food and drink to a ghost is a viable form of alternative medicine?

You want him to starve?

Tell me. Evidence shows that the overall failure rate for mutilation, burning and poisoning, otherwise known as Cancer treatment, is 97.9%. Considering that for many individual cancers the actual failure rate is 100%, would you consider those oncologists still providing these ‘treatments’ to be guilty of grievous bodily harm and mass murder?

How many millions of people have been damaged by psychiatric drugs otherwise known as ‘chemical coshes’? Please produce the evidence that the troubled or depressed are suffering a ‘chemical imbalance of the brain’. Where is the test? How many of them have had their sex lives ruined, due to these poisons? How many have suffered permanent brain damage? How many have committed violence or suicide?

Which clinical trial says that millions of children who misbehave should be poisoned with psychotropic drugs?

Which clinical trial approved the citing of MacDonalds in hospitals? Which is better? Placing junk food next to the Heart ward or the Morgue?

How many millions of arthritis sufferers are crippled and die, never knowing that Doctors can only provide pain management? That other possibilities exist that are less toxic and can either cure or improve their lives but Doctors aren’t allowed to suggest them?

How many millions have died from taking the properly prescribed dose of pharmaceuticals?

How many suffering from fibromyalgia or CFS have been sent home, told ‘there is nothing wrong with them’? Do you know why most elderly dread or refuse to go to hospital? Do you have the stats of those weak or elderly who die in hospital? Or who come out more malnourished than when they went in?

‘Science’? Pah!

I could write all day about the carnage caused by ‘scientific’ medicine and the rigged studies which claim they all had benefits. One of the most downloaded studies on PubMed is...

'Why Most Published Research Findings Are False'

'http://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124

If you haven't figured it out yet, ‘Scientific’ medicine is a racket.

This subject is too big to cover in a few posts and we are already off-topic.

The traditional systems do have ancient texts on pharmacology but if you want recent evidence for alternatives you could start here… http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/journals/241/

Good luck reading them all.

[dickyknee]

I'm curious, do you think offering food and drink to a ghost is a viable form of alternative medicine?

You want him to starve?

Tell me. Evidence shows that the overall failure rate for mutilation, burning and poisoning, otherwise known as Cancer treatment, is 97.9%. Considering that for many individual cancers the actual failure rate is 100%, would you consider those oncologists still providing these ‘treatments’ to be guilty of grievous bodily harm and mass murder?

How many millions of people have been damaged by psychiatric drugs otherwise known as ‘chemical coshes’? Please produce the evidence that the troubled or depressed are suffering a ‘chemical imbalance of the brain’. Where is the test? How many of them have had their sex lives ruined, due to these poisons? How many have suffered permanent brain damage? How many have committed violence or suicide?

Which clinical trial says that millions of children who misbehave should be poisoned with psychotropic drugs?

Which clinical trial approved the citing of MacDonalds in hospitals? Which is better? Placing junk food next to the Heart ward or the Morgue?

How many millions of arthritis sufferers are crippled and die, never knowing that Doctors can only provide pain management? That other possibilities exist that are less toxic and can either cure or improve their lives but Doctors aren’t allowed to suggest them?

How many millions have died from taking the properly prescribed dose of pharmaceuticals?

How many suffering from fibromyalgia or CFS have been sent home, told ‘there is nothing wrong with them’? Do you know why most elderly dread or refuse to go to hospital? Do you have the stats of those weak or elderly who die in hospital? Or who come out more malnourished than when they went in?

‘Science’? Pah!

I could write all day about the carnage caused by ‘scientific’ medicine and the rigged studies which claim they all had benefits. One of the most downloaded studies on PubMed is...

'Why Most Published Research Findings Are False'

'http://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124

If you haven't figured it out yet, ‘Scientific’ medicine is a racket.

This subject is too big to cover in a few posts and we are already off-topic.

The traditional systems do have ancient texts on pharmacology but if you want recent evidence for alternatives you could start here… http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/journals/241/

Good luck reading them all.

"Evidence shows that the overall failure rate for mutilation, burning and poisoning, otherwise known as Cancer treatment, is 97.9%. Considering that for many individual cancers the actual failure rate is 100%"

wow. just wow.

[Choctastic]

"Evidence shows that the overall failure rate for mutilation, burning and poisoning, otherwise known as Cancer treatment, is 97.9%. Considering that for many individual cancers the actual failure rate is 100%"

wow. just wow.

It's even more shocking when you read the details.. http://www.icnr.com/articles/ischemotherapyeffective.html

[barberpg]

Can someone finish this <deleted> blog. Enough is enough. Drags on too long. Please. Let this be he finish. I am sick of the emails.

[Choctastic]

Can someone finish this <deleted> blog. Enough is enough. Drags on too long. Please. Let this be he finish. I am sick of the emails.

On every email you receive it says... 'You can unsubscribe at any time here:' and gives you a link. Works better than trying to deny others masochistic pleasure.

[heybruce]

"Evidence shows that the overall failure rate for mutilation, burning and poisoning, otherwise known as Cancer treatment, is 97.9%. Considering that for many individual cancers the actual failure rate is 100%"

wow. just wow.

It's even more shocking when you read the details.. http://www.icnr.com/articles/ischemotherapyeffective.html

Consider the source http://www.icnr.com/, an organization that puts at the top of their homepage a plug for anti-oxidant toothpaste, complete with unsourced scare words about the evils of fluoride. If you want a more credible paper about the risks and benefits of chemotherapy I suggest this one: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/chemotherapy-doesnt-work-not-so-fast-a-lesson-from-history/

[heybruce]

I'm curious, do you think offering food and drink to a ghost is a viable form of alternative medicine?

You want him to starve?

Tell me. Evidence shows that the overall failure rate for mutilation, burning and poisoning, otherwise known as Cancer treatment, is 97.9%. Considering that for many individual cancers the actual failure rate is 100%, would you consider those oncologists still providing these ‘treatments’ to be guilty of grievous bodily harm and mass murder?

How many millions of people have been damaged by psychiatric drugs otherwise known as ‘chemical coshes’? Please produce the evidence that the troubled or depressed are suffering a ‘chemical imbalance of the brain’. Where is the test? How many of them have had their sex lives ruined, due to these poisons? How many have suffered permanent brain damage? How many have committed violence or suicide?

Which clinical trial says that millions of children who misbehave should be poisoned with psychotropic drugs?

Which clinical trial approved the citing of MacDonalds in hospitals? Which is better? Placing junk food next to the Heart ward or the Morgue?

How many millions of arthritis sufferers are crippled and die, never knowing that Doctors can only provide pain management? That other possibilities exist that are less toxic and can either cure or improve their lives but Doctors aren’t allowed to suggest them?

How many millions have died from taking the properly prescribed dose of pharmaceuticals?

How many suffering from fibromyalgia or CFS have been sent home, told ‘there is nothing wrong with them’? Do you know why most elderly dread or refuse to go to hospital? Do you have the stats of those weak or elderly who die in hospital? Or who come out more malnourished than when they went in?

‘Science’? Pah!

I could write all day about the carnage caused by ‘scientific’ medicine and the rigged studies which claim they all had benefits. One of the most downloaded studies on PubMed is...

'Why Most Published Research Findings Are False'

'http://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124

If you haven't figured it out yet, ‘Scientific’ medicine is a racket.

This subject is too big to cover in a few posts and we are already off-topic.

The traditional systems do have ancient texts on pharmacology but if you want recent evidence for alternatives you could start here… http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/journals/241/

Good luck reading them all.

I don't need to read them all. Your reference "Why Most Published Research Findings Are False" identifies the fact that many research papers are published by people with insufficient knowledge of statistics, which can lead them to false conclusions. The correct solution is to improve knowledge of statistics among researchers, not to abandon research. Of course alternative medicine doesn't have to worry about this because you accept it on faith, without any kind of supporting research other than anecdotal evidence.

Your link to the National Center for Biotechnology Information shows that there is real research into the benefits of some forms of alternative medicine, but that doesn't mean I'm going to treat appendicitis with herbal tea. I assume you would avoid hospitals if your appendix were about to burst, after all, the hospital might have a McDonalds!

It's interesting that you would post "‘Science’? Pah!" then post links to science websites to support your argument against science based medicine.

You argue that modern medicine should be abandoned because it can't cure all cancers and it is struggling with treatments for personality and behavioral disorders. You ignore the fact that modern medicine has developed vaccines that have eliminated smallpox and almost eliminated polio, antibiotics that cure bubonic plague, leprosy, syphilis, and other bacterial diseases, and surgeries that cure appendicitis, cataracts, hernias, etc. Modern medicine has not given us immortality, but the lists of benefits it has provided is a long one.

You have been understandably vague about the benefits of alternative medicine, a medical approach that by your own admission can't provide proven benefits and must be accepted on faith. For the conditions I've listed--smallpox, polio, bubonic plague, leprosy, syphilis, appendicitis, cataracts, and hernias--what treatments does alternative medicine provide?

[Choctastic]

Your reference "Why Most Published Research Findings Are False" identifies the fact that many research papers are published by people with insufficient knowledge of statistics, which can lead them to false conclusions. The correct solution is to improve knowledge of statistics among researchers, not to abandon research.

Nobody mentioned abandoning research. It is not 'many' but 'most' and the period covered was 20 years. Are you so naive to believe that 20 years of misleading the public and regulatory bodies was due solely ignorance? How many pharmaceutical companies have been fined for illegal practices like rigging studies and bribing Doctors, since that report was published? There is no improvement.

Research what happened with Vioxx. The level of deception is staggering.

Your link to the National Center for Biotechnology Information shows that there is real research into the benefits of some forms of alternative medicine, but that doesn't mean I'm going to treat appendicitis with herbal tea.

How many times do I have to mention the difference between emergency, acute, chronic and degenerative?

It's interesting that you would post "‘Science’? Pah!" then post links to science websites to support your argument against science based medicine.

Where are you getting this? I am not against science-based medicine. I am against the corruption of science. YOU demanded evidence. I showed you it exists. I make no judgement as to its veracity.

You argue that modern medicine should be abandoned

I do not such thing.

You have been understandably vague about the benefits of alternative medicine, a medical approach that by your own admission can't provide proven benefits and must be accepted on faith.

Stop making stuff up. I don't accept anything on faith. I don't like wasting my money. Nor do I wish to risk my health any more than anyone else. I TRY it and if it works, then I accept it. After years working in healing retreats, I have tried them all.

Go to a Doctor who gives you 3 minutes, punches your symptoms into a computer and prescribes a toxic drug he may have been paid to prescribe and knows cannot cure anyone. You might as well be going to a vending machine.

Real healers understand that healing is as much an art as it is a science. If you really want to find authentic natural medicine, stop reading the propaganda on Quackwatch and go and seek it out, as I had to.

Feel free to reply. I'm done.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Choctastic

[heybruce]

Your reference "Why Most Published Research Findings Are False" identifies the fact that many research papers are published by people with insufficient knowledge of statistics, which can lead them to false conclusions. The correct solution is to improve knowledge of statistics among researchers, not to abandon research.

Nobody mentioned abandoning research. It is not 'many' but 'most' and the period covered was 20 years. Are you so naive to believe that 20 years of misleading the public and regulatory bodies was due solely ignorance? How many pharmaceutical companies have been fined for illegal practices like rigging studies and bribing Doctors, since that report was published? There is no improvement.

Research what happened with Vioxx. The level of deception is staggering.

Your link to the National Center for Biotechnology Information shows that there is real research into the benefits of some forms of alternative medicine, but that doesn't mean I'm going to treat appendicitis with herbal tea.

How many times do I have to mention the difference between emergency, acute, chronic and degenerative?

It's interesting that you would post "‘Science’? Pah!" then post links to science websites to support your argument against science based medicine.

Where are you getting this? I am not against science-based medicine. I am against the corruption of science. YOU demanded evidence. I showed you it exists. I make no judgement as to its veracity.

You argue that modern medicine should be abandoned

I do not such thing.

You have been understandably vague about the benefits of alternative medicine, a medical approach that by your own admission can't provide proven benefits and must be accepted on faith.

Stop making stuff up. I don't accept anything on faith. I don't like wasting my money. Nor do I wish to risk my health any more than anyone else. I TRY it and if it works, then I accept it. After years working in healing retreats, I have tried them all.

Go to a Doctor who gives you 3 minutes, punches your symptoms into a computer and prescribes a toxic drug he may have been paid to prescribe and knows cannot cure anyone. You might as well be going to a vending machine.

Real healers understand that healing is as much an art as it is a science. If you really want to find authentic natural medicine, stop reading the propaganda on Quackwatch and go and seek it out, as I had to.

Feel free to reply. I'm done.

"How many times do I have to mention the difference between emergency, acute, chronic and degenerative?"

Not too many. I did find this in your post #50:

"Where modern medicine gets applause is in acute and emergency care."

But that came after you had stated, in the same post:

'Scientific' medicine is a massive expensive FAILURE. Not because there is no science behind it but because the application of mostly pseudo-science is corrupt.

That certainly seems like a blanket condemnation of scientific medicine.

Ok, I'll be generous and assume that in spite of your blanket condemnations, that you concede modern medicine is superior to alternative medicine for emergency care. I'll also assume that when you wrote:

"'Scientific' medicine will never cure a damn thing until it starts to address underlying cause, instead of sticking with the more lucrative 'disease management'"

that you weren't thinking of vaccines which prevent diseases such as smallpox, polio, etc., or antibiotics which cure diseases, two great accomplishments of modern medicine that don't qualify as disease management.

Can you give an example of a condition that alternative medicine treats in a manner that is clearly superior to modern medicine? You have much criticism of how modern medicine treats cancer, can you identify an alternative treatment for cancer? Can you identify any diseases that alternative medicine can be shown to be superior to modern medicine in treating?

Finally, you claim:

"I don't accept anything on faith. I don't like wasting my money. Nor do I wish to risk my health any more than anyone else. I TRY it and if it works, then I accept it. After years working in healing retreats, I have tried them all."

You don't specify what you try, but if it involves putting unregulated substances in you body of unknown purity, you are risking your health. My two biggest criticisms of alternative medicine are the absence, in most cases, of scientific evidence to support the purported benefits, and the lack of regulation and quality control standards. When you take an alternative medicine you often don't know what you are putting in your body.

I seriously doubt that you've tried them all, I think you are prone to gross exaggeration in you claims.

Finally, your statement "I TRY it and if it works, then I accept it." ignores the placebo effect. I don't believe that offering food and drink to ghosts cured my friends father of any real ailments. While you never state what you've treated with alternative medicine, I suspect a combination of placebo effect, and your bodies ability to repair itself in spite of quack cures, may be the real reason for your cure. Of course unless you provide specifics about your alternative cures there is no way to know.