Consciousness or the lack of it

[n210mp]

Consciousness or the lack of it

Occasionally I have a brainstorm and for a fleeting nano second I am in heaven because I knew that in that nano second I was in a different place than I had ever been before, except of course for the other nanoseconds when I have also experienced something similar to this phenomena. (Honest, no drink or drugs involved at all)

Because I have no understanding of why I experience this sort of thing I conclude that there must be some power or other either trying to tell me something or that I am being driven to seek another way of dealing with all the stresses and strains of my everyday life.

I have sought different paths in trying to stabilize or conceptualize these erratic "feelings or moments of enlightenment"

I have gone to all the Christian denominations Churches, spiritualists meetings, borne again evangelists and so on and so forth, all without gaining any insight or satisfaction into why I am such a deep and tormented thinker and why I have these thoughts!

I am drawn to Buddhism as per my plea for help in a recent topic I posted in the Buddhist section will testify and will soon be a guest of a very learned friend of mine who has offered to teach this tormented soul some of the basic ways of freeing myself from mental suffering.

It occurs to me that I have often gone through the wrong doors in life only to find out at a later date that whilst at the time, the door I went through was a wrong one, it later proved to be the very door that opened up so many wonderful and meaningful opportunities and situations for me

Now living adjacent to the "anus" of the known world it occurs to me that there maybe someone out there who can actually understand where I am coming from and give me some hint or idea just where the next door could be from me

There is a thread going about being a "minimalist" but the way that being minimalistic seems to make the "minimalist" happy seems to me to be on a par with the way that"Scrooge" was happy in that wonderful Christmas story "A Christmas carol"

In other words He was happy being miserable and I am only joking before those same "Minimalists" on the TV thread, I am sure are not happy being miserable!

Definitely my topic is Thai related because I mention Pattaya and Buddhism and the thoughts that I and consequentely this topic have may well be provoked by living in the place.

So please kind Mods because the topic is in the frame of a generalistic comment and plea for help would you leave it in "general" for at least a little while and maybe, just maybe there is some enlightened person who can point this poor demented soul in the right direction

Edited February 2, 2015 by n210mp

[Rooo]

Moved to Buddhist Forum.

[notmyself]

This could well be a psychological issue so should here in the health section.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/23-health-body-and-medicine/

Check here also....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/90910-mental-health-resource-list/

Edited February 3, 2015 by notmyself

[Kan Win]

I really hope and wish that you the OP's can get a "peace of mind" very soon.

Win

Edited February 3, 2015 by Kan Win

[rockyysdt]

Sorry if this might have a Buddhist flavor (you can't run away).

I also have thoughts telling me that situations I've endured, people I have met and states I have experienced are meant to be indicators, guides, or motivators for a higher goal.

Alas, all of it springs from my conditioned and impermanent self.

The overriding thing I find with myself and with humans is that we find it difficult to change our behavior and we tend to look for the easy way out.

A way in which someone else bestows the answers to us.

Unfortunately Awakening can only come from personal experience resulting from the fruits of our efforts.

Through practice we learn to become aware of a silence, and by experiencing this silence, we eventually gain insight and understanding.

Everything else, anchored in the impermanent & conditioned (thought, feeling, body, mind), is our distraction.

If we wait for someone else to bestow upon us the answer, it will never happen.

It will simply kill your remaining time.

In terms of being minimalist, in a world where resources aren't shared equally, and that the majority barely subsist, it is ethical not to waste.

Once actual experience kicks in, the realization we experience automatically directs us towards becoming minimalist.

We no longer have a want for anything infinitely lesser in value.

Edited February 3, 2015 by rockyysdt

[notmyself]

Sorry if this might have a Buddhist flavor (you can't run away).

I also have thoughts telling me that situations I've endured, people I have met and states I have experienced are meant to be indicators, guides, or motivators for a higher goal.

Alas, all of it springs from my conditioned and impermanent self.

The overriding thing I find with myself and with humans is that we find it difficult to change our behavior and we tend to look for the easy way out.

A way in which someone else bestows the answers to us.

Unfortunately Awakening can only come from personal experience resulting from the fruits of our efforts.

Through practice we learn to become aware of a silence, and by experiencing this silence, we eventually gain insight and understanding.

Everything else, anchored in the impermanent & conditioned (thought, feeling, body, mind), is our distraction.

If we wait for someone else to bestow upon us the answer, it will never happen.

It will simply kill your remaining time.

In terms of being minimalist, in a world where resources aren't shared equally, and that the majority barely subsist, it is ethical not to waste.

Once actual experience kicks in, the realization we experience automatically directs us towards becoming minimalist.

We no longer have a want for anything infinitely lesser in value.

Obviously lifted but couldn't find out from where.

http://www.wisdomofchopra.com/

[Thongkorn]

have you tried senacots.

[rockyysdt]

Thank you for the compliment.

[notmyself]

Thank you for the compliment.

I'm trying to help while you just offer platitudes.

Part time psychological counselling from Aug 2006-09 and full time Sept 2009- May 2014 and this is entirely my field, what do you have to offer?

This thread should be in the health sub-section.

[geronimo]

I watched a documentary about a group of scientists who wanted to study the "Eureka moment". Where in the brain does it originate? So they tested and researched and they found the area of the brain responsible and they also discovered the most likely time for this moment to occur is when you are engaged in some menial task that requires little or no thought. This might be what is happening to you

Just a thought.

[n210mp]

Many thanks for the helpful if diverse answers to this topic.

When Rooo the MOD closed this topic down, I asked for it to be placed in the PUB section that Rooo initially thought it more appropriate for, as it wasn't related to Thailand.

In any event because it was related to a topic that I started in the Buddhist forum Rooo kindly made a new topic out of it and placed it in that same forum and I am content with that.

Because I considered that it may have been a little offensive to those whom had been so helpful in answering my previous topic in the Buddhist forum I wanted to post in the "general forum".

In any event there was also another reason for thinking this way and that was because of the greater numbers of people that surf the general section (IMO) and maybe there would be one of two that either suffered from my dilemma or was indeed suffering from a mental health issue.

It was though as rockyysdt possibly sensed "A cry for help in the wilderness"

Having said that though, I find myself agreeing with both "rockyysdt: and also "not myself"

I can see that they both make good points and it has occur to me many times over the years that I may be one of those 90% of the population who indeed does in one way or another suffer form a mental disorder

I think that "not myself" in his request for the thread to be moved to the Medical forum is genuinely concerned that there may be mental health issues involved here and therefore logically thinks that the Health forum would be more helpful.

"rockyysdt" is in a way saying that the answer must come from within and only after there has been a "mentally life changing way of thinking" and that this this different way of thinking must be worked for in order to gain both inner peace and eliminate mental suffering

I felt a little embarrassed and so I didn't look at this forum until this morning because I knew that rockyysdt would have answered in the manner that He did.

rockyysdt has been kind, patient and consistent in his replies and fundamentally I feel that I am, as he infers trying to find a "quick cure" out of this frustrating mental thought process that I find myself in.

"not myself"

I really do appreciate your helpful posts but dont think that any mental problems that I admit I could have are anymore harming either to myself or others than the bloke who walks around outside TESCOs with a placard saying "beware the end is near"

Further when it come to Medical professionals in the psychology department I feel that those who I have met socially in another life, possibly have more problems than the people they are taking care of.

Just for information I did two thirds of a psychology degree course some time ago and had to end the course because of the way that the "Professional" made judgement in purely a "subjective manner"

In other words if you went to another "Professional" in this field you could have another subjective opinion miles away from the previous opinion and in a way this sums up the vagaries of the mind that are frustrating me at this time.

So many avenues, so many ways to the top of the mountain.

[n210mp]

I really hope and wish that you the OP's can get a "peace of mind" very soon.

Win

Thank you very kindly for your post, I feel that there are others who may well understand better than me the frustrations of being in the happy position that I am in

It is also coincidental that your name "Kan Win is very similar to the name of my Buddhist monk friend in the NE of Thailand

His name phonetically is "YouWin"

[n210mp]

I watched a documentary about a group of scientists who wanted to study the "Eureka moment". Where in the brain does it originate? So they tested and researched and they found the area of the brain responsible and they also discovered the most likely time for this moment to occur is when you are engaged in some menial task that requires little or no thought. This might be what is happening to you

Just a thought.

I agree with your thoughts geronimo, as a person who is always active around the house, garden, cheapo charlie golf, cycling around Mabrachan, posting on TV ETC I find that the best thoughts are those I have when my body is resting after manually working

When I say my best thoughts (I mean reasonably balanced thoughts) its because I have had a theory for some time now that there has to be a balance in the mind and body that allows for the calmness that is needed for that kind of thought that you refer to in your post to happen

It doesn't happen if you are mentally exhausted for instance or when you are physically exhausted but this calmness that allows peace and a calm mind for me come when I am mentally stimulated after a good bout of physical exercise or manual work like digging the garden

[n210mp]

have you tried senacots.

Great answer

the most simple solutions to the most complicated questions are the ones that I am looking for.

Now if you are saying in your hilarious one liner which really tickled me is that I am full of shzer and need a good mental clear out , then I actually agree that there maybe some truth in what you are saying inferring!

Whilst on the subject or need for a bowel mover, I recently started on a B1, 6, 12 course of tablets and the change in my toilet evacuations have been so much easier, wish I had found out about these tablets before.

On the main issue I am happy to have the mental frustrations that I have because they do belong to me and like I once said to a partner who was complaining about a dog keeping us all awake at night, "I wonder if a person who is deaf would complain about the noise if he could hear the dog barking, maybe he would just be happy that he could hear"

This is the way that I feel about my mental frustrations and my attempts to come to terms with them, I am, very happy to know that they occur because I have a working brain.

Ok the brain may now be getting a bit old and befuddled but what if I didn't have one at all?

[rockyysdt]

Thank you for the compliment.

I'm trying to help while you just offer platitudes.

Part time psychological counselling from Aug 2006-09 and full time Sept 2009- May 2014 and this is entirely my field, what do you have to offer?

This thread should be in the health sub-section.

In terms of your credentials I have total respect.

I personally am not qualified to speak regarding clinical psychiatry and/or psychology.

In terms of platitudes, perhaps you misunderstand what I was attempting to share with Harvey.

You've come in after quite a long interaction with Harvey in which anything to do with mental illness was not apparent.

My offer of help (which you refer to as a platitude, and having been lifted), was for Harvey to learn/practice meditation, & mindfulness, both front line tools of the trade for modern psychologists.

The way I presented this was perhaps high level, but it was intended towards Harvey who understood what I was talking about.

If indeed Harvey has medical issues then perhaps these should be addressed, but if his problem revolves around conditioned belief, habitual tendency towards thinking negatively, and difficulty from braking away from chains of such thoughts with their related feeling responses then meditation and mindfulness practice is far from being a platitude.

Firstly meditation can provide clarity of mind, strength of concentration, and drug free respite from any anxiety/fear/stress which he maybe going through.

Meditation would also give him the tools to work on his mindfulness practice.

A practice that with time will allow him to observe how his mind thinks, to capture negative thoughts as they occur, and take steps to break chains of those thoughts before they become overwhelming.

Over time he can teach himself to replace negative thoughts with positive ones.

That is not to say that he would be running away from issues or concerns, but that he can place them in their context and deal with them rather than letting them become overwhelming.

Every psychologist who I've interacted with (including a practitioner who assists accident victims deal with their trauma) studies and teaches mindfulness and meditation.

One psychologist put it: It's helpful to talk about the cause of ones troubles, but knowing these doesn't make the thoughts with their corresponding fears go away.

It seems patients can be in therapy for many years and still live encumbered with their psychological issues.

Harvey indicated he is quite stable in terms of overwhelming depression or talk of ending it.

If he indeed has a diagnosable medical condition I stand back.

If his problem is due to habitual negative thoughts, conditioned belief (deity, God etc) which he has learned to associate with feelings he experiences from time to time then he has meditation & mindfulness available to him as tools with which to take control of his life.

Sorry that you feel this is trite (synonym: platitude), or of no worth.

PS: My writings are original. I don't lift material, but if I quote something I include the reference.

Edited February 4, 2015 by rockyysdt

[rockyysdt]

Just for information I did two thirds of a psychology degree course some time ago and had to end the course because of the way that the "Professional" made judgement in purely a "subjective manner"

In other words if you went to another "Professional" in this field you could have another subjective opinion miles away from the previous opinion and in a way this sums up the vagaries of the mind that are frustrating me at this time.

The character played by Jack Nicholson in One Flew over the Cuckoos Nest must have felt a little the same in terms of his diagnosis.

Having said that, there are many in our community who suffer from a range of pretty nasty mental illnesses.

I don't know how badly your symptoms trouble you, but it's probable that if you have a medical condition which is affecting your mind, then it's quite possible that many of these are physically diagnosable.

This might be worth exploring with your GP?

A friend of mine lived with bi polar for 20 years before being diagnosed.

Another friend also had bi polar undiagnosed. He was a born again Christian, recorded and played Christians songs and dedicated his life to Christ. After his diagnosis and treatment (lithium I think) his normal self was to be an atheist. The transformation was unbelievable.

Alternatively, if your thoughts and feelings are simply conditioning/belief & associated feelings, them meditation & mindfulness are proven and constructive ways of learning to think differently and benefiting by the associated feelings.

If you are inclined to the Buddhas teachings you can eventually go further down the awareness path and discover for yourself what actually is.

Edited February 4, 2015 by rockyysdt

[Kan Win]

I really hope and wish that you the OP's can get a "peace of mind" very soon.

Win

His name phonetically is "YouWin"

Hopefully then you can win and then you win in your plight to find your peace of mind.

Sawadee Khrup

Win

[zlodnick]

I have heard that meditation is not recomended for anyone with a mental disorder.

[VincentRJ]

Further when it come to Medical professionals in the psychology department I feel that those who I have met socially in another life, possibly have more problems than the people they are taking care of.

Just for information I did two thirds of a psychology degree course some time ago and had to end the course because of the way that the "Professional" made judgement in purely a "subjective manner"

In other words if you went to another "Professional" in this field you could have another subjective opinion miles away from the previous opinion and in a way this sums up the vagaries of the mind that are frustrating me at this time.

So many avenues, so many ways to the top of the mountain.

That is an interesting point you make, Harvey. A principle of Buddhism, as I understand it, is that everything in the universe is connected to some degree and in some way, producing a myriad of 'cause and effect' relationships in a continuous state of change.

In the scientific process, we try to isolate certain 'cause and effect' relationships in order to observe and quantify those causes and corresponding effects, and create a theory as to what's going on.

However, when dealing with enormously complex situations, such as human biology, psychology, economics, climate change etc, the number of variables is so staggering, it's often difficult, and sometimes impossible to be certain about the precise effect and significance of any particular one of those many contributing causes.

In such circumstances we tend to rely upon the consensus of opinion amongst the experts in the field. Unfortunately, the history of science teaches us that any consensus of opinion on any truly complex matter is sooner or later found to be wrong, or at least inaccurate.

[notmyself]

When I say my best thoughts (I mean reasonably balanced thoughts) its because I have had a theory for some time now that there has to be a balance in the mind and body that allows for the calmness that is needed for that kind of thought that you refer to in your post to happen

It doesn't happen if you are mentally exhausted for instance or when you are physically exhausted but this calmness that allows peace and a calm mind for me come when I am mentally stimulated after a good bout of physical exercise or manual work like digging the garden

What you describe is reflection and certain situations put you in a position where you reflect... often due to boredom. Other examples would be running or cycling which generally don't require much in the way of cognitive reasoning. We live in a word where decisions are all too often made on a whim, without any real thought if you like. These so called 'moments of clarity' are nothing more that arriving at a satisfactory answer after consideration rather than shooting from the hip.

[trd]

Thank you for the compliment.

I'm trying to help while you just offer platitudes.

Part time psychological counselling from Aug 2006-09 and full time Sept 2009- May 2014 and this is entirely my field, what do you have to offer?

This thread should be in the health sub-section.

For someone who is notmyself you seem to be very sure of yourself. No doubt you take the view that the human conditioned mind which experiences suffering (dukkha) can always be categorized somewhere in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM)

[trd]

When I say my best thoughts (I mean reasonably balanced thoughts) its because I have had a theory for some time now that there has to be a balance in the mind and body that allows for the calmness that is needed for that kind of thought that you refer to in your post to happen

It doesn't happen if you are mentally exhausted for instance or when you are physically exhausted but this calmness that allows peace and a calm mind for me come when I am mentally stimulated after a good bout of physical exercise or manual work like digging the garden

What you describe is reflection and certain situations put you in a position where you reflect... often due to boredom. Other examples would be running or cycling which generally don't require much in the way of cognitive reasoning. We live in a word where decisions are all too often made on a whim, without any real thought if you like. These so called 'moments of clarity' are nothing more that arriving at a satisfactory answer after consideration rather than shooting from the hip.

The distinction you make between decisions made on a whim and those made with "real thought" as you put it, is entirely false. Is this an example of the mumbo jumbo psychological counselling you practice? And you refer to other advice as being a platitude. Instead of trying to replace one kind of conditioning with another as is the core of behavioral psychotherapy, why not work on getting rid of all conditioning. The irony is that you profess to understand the mind in the way you counsel others, but you have no idea how your own mind works because you are trapped in the false sense of self and continue to perpetuate that myth within the guise of some kind of professional qualification.

[notmyself]

The distinction you make between decisions made on a whim and those made with "real thought" as you put it, is entirely false. Is this an example of the mumbo jumbo psychological counselling you practice? And you refer to other advice as being a platitude. Instead of trying to replace one kind of conditioning with another as is the core of behavioral psychotherapy, why not work on getting rid of all conditioning. The irony is that you profess to understand the mind in the way you counsel others, but you have no idea how your own mind works because you are trapped in the false sense of self and continue to perpetuate that myth within the guise of some kind of professional qualification.

So I sent this comment to a number of people and the kindest response I got back was 'foolishness'. I read to learn on sections such as motorbikes but don't comment because I don't have a clue, I suggest you do the same here.

[MAJIC]

"Minimalists" on the TV thread, I am sure are not happy being miserable!

You misjudge minimalists,they are not miserable or mean,what makes them happy and contented is clearing all the clutter and useless possessions from their lives. Which as they do not have to spend time servicing the unwanted,is an added bonus!

Simply put: one person,finds being surrounded by useless objects, enjoyable,while the other person finds it repulsive! True Buddhists are natural Minimalists!

Edited February 12, 2015 by MAJIC

[jacky54]

I have heard that meditation is not recomended for anyone with a mental disorder.

That lets most doing it out then

[n210mp]

I have had a (Rude) awakening!

Brought down to Earth both practically and philosophically

Wednesday morning 4th of this month I went out as usual at 5 45 am on the bicycle and was doing well, irritating chest problems and general aches that I had for the previous month were not bothering me at all.

I sailed up the hill from the crossroads at Mikamon and was in top gear on the flat as you pass the dam road over lake Mabrachan.

I passed Paul my good friend and Australian fellow biker who was just taking it easy after having a motorbike accident last month, Paul normally goes another way from me and we usually meet in the middle of our rides so to speak

Said my usual "cheery morning hello" to the beautiful young lady who sells chicken outside the 7/11 near to the bridge where you turn to go to the SSCC golf club and bore left around the lake and got a lovely smile with a response ending in "Take care Papa"

I had gone another 300m when I looked in my mirror and saw Pauls bike lights behind me, thinking he was maybe going to go the same way as me I doubled back to connect with him.

As I came up to him I turned across the road and my right hand pedal which should have been high on the right turn grounded with the road trapping my foot and bringing me down with a very heavy fall.

My right foot went straight back facing towards the way that I had come broke the ankle and the tibia or fibula bone protruded through with high spurts of arterial blood spouting with every beat of my pounding heart.

I broke 5 bones in my right leg, 1 x ankle, 1 x knee, 2 x Fibula, 1 x tibia

Paul talked to some passing people who called the ambulance.

The number of Thai people who stopped and wanted to help was amazing, as was the number that knew me from just going around the lake for the last three years.

Soon the ambulance appeared and I was asked which hospital I wanted to go to.

I answered "Banglamung" on the basis that it was rumoured to be the cheapest of those in Pattaya and also within easy travelling distance for my wife and family.

We arrived at the hospital, X Ray, two and three quarter hour operation and finished up in a surgical ward on the second floor.

Since that night I have done a lot of painful and deep thinking.

In conclusion to my deep and troubled thinking I have concluded that I have been smoking the candle at both ends, in other words just travelling through life so fast that I didn't have time to smell the flowers in the garden or simply being just eternally grateful for being a healthy albeit old man able to do most things.

I think that I have had a revelation or a reminder that has brought me down to grass roots once again

I Have also decided that in my self centeredness in chasing or living the dream of eternal youth I could have been doing better things with my life and experiences and so when I get well fit and well again I am going to try to find some local organisation that could use what little skills I have.

In fact f anyone knows of such a place that could use a normally fit and healthy man like me in the Pattaya area I would appreciate any input

I got out of hospital yesterday after 8 days and am now being cosseted and cared for once again by my fantastic wife who throughout this drama has been both a "Florence Nightingale and also a pillar of strength.

And also many thanks to the many TV ers who knew of my drama and made enquires about my welfare this last week or so.

Regards Harvey

Edited February 13, 2015 by n210mp

[trd]

So sorry to hear that Harvey. I hope you make a speedy recovery. You never know what life has in store for you. That's something to reflect on.

[rockyysdt]

What a shock Harvey

Sorry to read you've gone through so much suffering.

Wishing you a speedy & full recovery.

R

[VincentRJ]

Sorry to read about your accident Harvey. Accidents can happen at any age. I would say that the practice of Buddhist mindfulness, and not attempting to do two tasks at the same time, can help avoid most accidents.

When I look back at the very few accidents that I've had in my life (apart from the accident of my birth ), I would say they were due to my attempting to do two tasks at the same time.

I remember the circumstances of the one and only, fairly serious accident I had falling off a bicycle when I was about 12 years old. Whilst I was speeding down a hill, I looked back to see how far behind my friend was. As I did this, I crashed into the kerb, and as I fell, the pedal gouged out a significant piece of flesh from my thigh. There were no broken bones, but I was rushed to hospital. I still have a prominent scar on my thigh to this day.

This accident didn't deter me from cycling, however. I just learned to be more mindful. I still occasionally hire a bicycle when the hotel I'm staying at provides them. I spent a wonderful few days at Sukhothai recently, cycling to the ruins each day on the hotel bicycle, sometimes getting lost due to inadequate maps.

[rockyysdt]

"Minimalists" on the TV thread, I am sure are not happy being miserable!

You misjudge minimalists,they are not miserable or mean,what makes them happy and contented is clearing all the clutter and useless possessions from their lives. Which as they do not have to spend time servicing the unwanted,is an added bonus!

Simply put: one person,finds being surrounded by useless objects, enjoyable,while the other person finds it repulsive! True Buddhists are natural Minimalists!

I need to preface that I, as most, live in a conditioned state.

I see the term "minimalist" as simply a label.

You can label many in such ways.

For example: A medical professional understands the need to provide a disinfected environment.

We could label him a "hygienist".

Is this due to an attachment to cleanliness, or is he interested in the survival of his patient.

If one says: Oh, he is a minimalist, doesn't this short change such a persons true aims?

Edited February 14, 2015 by rockyysdt