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Supporters, Protesters Of Thaksin Clash At Central World


george

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Yes, The Nation's coverage is rather timid today - only calls for reconciliation from respected people and editorial about pedophiles.

Note how nobody condemned the violence, nor Thaksin, nor his studges, nor police, nor military chief.

Old man beaten senseless by a gang of ten in presence of the police and journalists and everybody blames him for being a "nuisance" - these are the charges against protesters. How absurd.

This kind of things - breakdown of law and order - can lead to military eventually stepping in as police has clearly failing to maintain the law and order.

On the other hand I cought a glimpse of Newsline yesterday, it's an English news program on Channel 11. They were openly discussing the beatings and the latest book about Shin sale published by Democrats. then they decided to find "good news". The guy was flipping newspaper pages over and saying: "I'm already on page 12, now 13, no good news. Oh here, Sports section, Tiger Woods wins again".

Then they turned over to their business desk, and it got even better. The guy started by apologising for rude language he used last week, then he also apologised for comparing Thaksin's policies to Pridiyatorn's, and said that he had been told not to do that again. Then the said he wanted to talk about Somkid's economic policies today but he had been asked not to, and he'd comply, because Somkid is such a nice guy and a good friend of someone, I didn't catch the name.

Then he proceeded by saying that we heard good numbers from Thaksin on Saturday and his own numbers are not the same, and he gave a full blast of how during Thaksin's reign trade account went from surplus to a deficit, and how the current account went from surplus to deficit, and how the public debt has risen to 68% of GDP if you count off balance debt accumulated by state banks bankrolling Thaksin's policies and so on.

Then he came on after commercials to continue with "Poli news" and started by saying he had just been asked not to talk about politics but he'd say just one little thing first, and so on and on it went. It was a riot. I don't know if I'll see his face on TV again.

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Yeah I just saw it, people being manhandled by men dressed in black. One guy over 60 years of age bloody and bruised face, and a younger lady who looked harmless with a fair amount of blood on her neck.

Anti-Thaksin

Mr. Itthiphon Sorawitsakul

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Miss Vasu-porn Boonmee

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We must continue to hope for, and fight for, clean, transparent politics. And our politicians must be good people, not greedy people who only want money. I really believe we can have this, one day, in Thailand, because there are lots of very good and moral people in this country.

Pro-Thaksin

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:D

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-----------------------------------------

Thaksin Auk pai - GET OUT !!! :o

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra

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If the authorities dont deal with the assailants, which will be dificult for them as several it seems are police, we will no doubt see a return of mass rallies. The anger over the assaults on old men, women and in one case a child have angered a lot of people cetainly where I live anyway. It has been said by many people for some time that this situation would end in violence, but did anyone really expect it to be unleashed by the Prime Ministers own bodyguards? The involvement of what looks like the hired gangs as we previously saw at the Nation and Manager is also ominous. The fact that all the violence is coming from one side and yet all the criticism from the entire government is being aimed at people acting within their constitutional rights as defined in the 1997 constitution is worrying.

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I have two big concerns here. First Thaksin will at least in the short term benefit from violence. He was unsuccessful provoking violence with the PAD rallies and now he has simply sent the thugs in to make the first strike. I feel he is trying to set up a situation that he can claim the need for some sort of martial law that gives him complete control over all agencies. He brings in his personal people to oversee the agencies. Then I am sure any evidence that will be used in court against him will suddenly be misplaced. It may be a bit of a push but I suspect that it is some place in his plans and probably before his first hearing due next month.

The second thing is by assaulting children he is hitting on a primal response from parents. This is very deeply rooted inside all of us. I am sure you know what happens in the wild if you come between a mother and her young. It does not mater what species it is unless it is a species that lays eggs and then abandons them like sea turtles.

There is no rationality in actions taken when a child is in danger. About the only drive higher is self preservation survival instinct, but even then I have seen cases that a parent lay down their life to protect their young. The reaction to protect our young is very simply primal, instinctual and core. No form of logic or conscious effort can override this. This is even deeper than any suggestion can go in the subconscious.

Thaksin has already demonstrated his willingness to assault our young to protect himself. Next time the response from parents and others will be more than passive as they now know children are fair game for Thaksin. In short he has found the button to push to start riots. The only defense is to keep children away to avoid the response.

I hope I am wrong about the first paragraph but I feel there is at least a 50% chance of this based on things he has done in the past. His methods have been to make things look like he is not the fault or not his doing and to flee the scene moments before. This is very much his style. Shin is an example, it was not his stock according to him. The cow giveaway in Isaan, make a speech, leave and have his cronies hand them out. Looking for legal loopholes or to project a false appearance to achieve his goal is his style.

You can’t tell me this was not planned by Thaksin, the fact that his thugs were there says otherwise.

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I feel he is trying to set up a situation that he can claim the need for some sort of martial law that gives him complete control over all agencies.

If there is any kind of military intervention I doubt it will leave Thaksin in control.

A good point but the police are his. I don’t know exactly how it works but he is desperate to get back what he has lost in recent months by decisions not going his way. Once his up to full power again he can make his problems dissapear.

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I feel he is trying to set up a situation that he can claim the need for some sort of martial law that gives him complete control over all agencies.

If there is any kind of military intervention I doubt it will leave Thaksin in control.

On the contrary, I share the views of John K.

It's still a possibility.

I believe that we have really underevaluated the powers that Thaksin has gained since he became PM, in 2001.

Before, a thai PM would last only a few months (coup, counter coup etc.) Enough to make a little money, give position to some friends. That's all... The big novelty with Thaksin it's this long time in power. Add to this fact, the money factor... And the result is indeed a very powerfull man.

Stakes are too high. He will never resigned, never bow. He will try every tricks (dirty or not) to stay in power, as long as possible.

And it would be a serious mistake to underevaluate the factor of the "charismatic person".

I believe, time is on the side of Thaksin, unfortunatly.

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Does anyone know - are these events getting any publicity on the international media ?

I didn't see it anywhere else. The US news agencies probably won't print it as Bush and Mr. T are buddies.

Doesn't it seem strange that both men (for lack of a better term) can do whatever they wish and get away with it.

Beating up old men and women... wow, how macho is that!

You can classify that one in the urban legends, started by Thaksin himself. Remember Bush's last reply to Thaksin's letter? Also when he lied about meeting Bush a few months ago?

TV's showed over and over the footages of the "incident", since last night.

I should say that I'm shocked by the frontpage of Nation, this morning.

One photo caption is amazing : "plainclothes police officers lead a man, who was shouting anti thaksin slogans, away from possible attack by a group of pro taksin people in central world plazza".

And guess what. The "man" is the old man who was bashed. And the "plainclothes police officer" on the left side, is the one who beated the old man ! A dirty cop who tried to keep his sunglasses during all the incident. One footage shows him very clearly beating the old man with his elbows, and then drag him away.

How can Nation make such a mistake ?

True. AND the other guy with the pinkish shirt was clearly seen punching the oldest guy as well. Afterwards, ASTV was showing these two talking with a police chief also dressed in black, tucking away his badge when he noticed the cameras were on them. :o And they're saying "the guy in black is not one of us". :D

"Men in black not ones of us" Special Branch police chief

Special Branch Police commissioenr Pol Lt Gen Thavorn Janyim said Tuesday that men dressed in black who were seen attacking protesters at Central World Plaza Monday were not his subordinates.

"Those, who wore black and grabbed the neck and attacked the protesters, are not Special Branch police," Thavorn said.

He said he deployed Special Branch police to work only as bodyguards of caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Footages on TVs showed that some men dressed in black and wearing sunglasses grabbed the neck of some protesters against Thaksin and repeatedly hit them.

The Nation

In the last picture above is the one legged guy with a crutch, apparently the paid cockroach coordinator who has been seen at these events before. He did just as much shouting as the anti-Thaksin crowd if not more

Looking at a tree, you don't see all of it for the roots are spreading underground all around it. The same goes for TRT which has become a bad invading weed all over this country, much worse than the mafia who usually are localized in their own territory avoiding clashes with other groups of organized crime.

Thaksin still has never publicly asked his supporters to avoid confrontations. :D I guess he still approves of it.

Edited by Tony Clifton
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I havn't seen any cases the other way around. Has anyone else?

Last night's Sorayuth show had footage of a lady stepping on the PM's foot 3 times "accidentally." Try doing that in most other countries without getting shot or at least dragged off by the security services. If anything, IMO the PM has shown incredible restraint (especially if we're going by local standards).

That said, I'd say it's about even, both sides starting fights and being vulgar/aggressive at these events, although it's understandable why a lot of folks around here would want to romanticize one side as thugs and the other as peaceful activists.

:o

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Senator expresses concern that bloodshed could break out

Bangkok caretaker senator Wallop Tangkhananurak Tuesday expressed concern that the hostility and confrontation between protesters and supporters of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra could lead to a bloodshed like the massacre of student activists in 1976.

Wallop said the clashes between the supporters and protesters at Central World Plaza on Monday was similar to the clash between ultra-rightists and student activists in 1976.

He said protesters should resort to using banners and signs instead of shouting.

Wallop also called on Thaksin to announce that he would take a political break to reduce the hostility in the society.

Source: The Nation - 22 August 2006

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Thaksin Shinawatra presides over the Digital TK Park opening ceremony yesterday as scuffles raged outside the complex.

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A Thaksin supporter curses an anti-Thaksin protester, right, asking him what right he has to call on the caretaker prime minister to quit politics, as he was escorted away from the Central World shopping complex by police.

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An unidentified man is assisted after suffering injuries in a scuffle between anti-Thaksin protesters and pro-government supporters. The 30-minute fracas between the two sides, in which the premier’s supporters outnumbered the protesters, ended with about half a dozen of the latter being injured.

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Plainclothes police officers lead a man, who was shouting anti-Thaksin slogans, away from possible attack by a group of pro-Thaksin people in Central World Plaza. The prime minister was at the mall to preside over a ceremony at the Thai Knowledge Park.

Source: The Nation - 22 August 2006

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Senator fears the escalation of confrontation between PM's supporters and protesters

Senator Wanlop Tangkhananurak (วัลลภ ตังคณานุรักษ์) fears that the confrontation between the supporters and protesters of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra will escalate if the problem continues. He believes that such confrontational atmosphere would hinder the reconciliation process.

Mr. Wanlop has requested the two sides to have their own signs to convey their feelings toward Prime Minister Thaksin instead of shouting and provoking the situation. He added that this could be a dangerous sign, as people who get caught in the middle of the situation may suffer from inadvertent offenses.

At the same time, Sakon Nakhon (สกลนคร) Senator Winyu Ularnkul (วิญญู อุฬารกุล) said that the situation is rooted from people’s inattention to hear other’s point of views.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 22 August 2006

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Then they turned over to their business desk, and it got even better. The guy started by apologising for rude language he used last week, then he also apologised for comparing Thaksin's policies to Pridiyatorn's, and said that he had been told not to do that again. Then the said he wanted to talk about Somkid's economic policies today but he had been asked not to, and he'd comply, because Somkid is such a nice guy and a good friend of someone, I didn't catch the name.

Then he proceeded by saying that we heard good numbers from Thaksin on Saturday and his own numbers are not the same, and he gave a full blast of how during Thaksin's reign trade account went from surplus to a deficit, and how the current account went from surplus to deficit, and how the public debt has risen to 68% of GDP if you count off balance debt accumulated by state banks bankrolling Thaksin's policies and so on.

Then he came on after commercials to continue with "Poli news" and started by saying he had just been asked not to talk about politics but he'd say just one little thing first, and so on and on it went. It was a riot. I don't know if I'll see his face on TV again.

Unless the regular business desk fellow was taking a break, I think I know who you are talking about. I wouldn't worry so much about him, he's pretty well connected on many levels, which should protect him fairly well for the time being.

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Senator expresses concern that bloodshed could break out

Bangkok caretaker senator Wallop Tangkhananurak Tuesday expressed concern that the hostility and confrontation between protesters and supporters of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra could lead to a bloodshed like the massacre of student activists in 1976.

Wallop said the clashes between the supporters and protesters at Central World Plaza on Monday was similar to the clash between ultra-rightists and student activists in 1976.

Well we already know Thaksin does like educated people, so I doubt he would do much to stop things from reaching this level.

Does anyone have a list of where Thaksin will be in the next several days? I think it would be wise to post them in advance. Additions or cancellations will tell a story.

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I feel he is trying to set up a situation that he can claim the need for some sort of martial law that gives him complete control over all agencies. He brings in his personal people to oversee the agencies.

There's certainly been a precedence for such behavior. Thaksin's role-model, Marcos, did the same in the Philippines by instigating violent acts with his own goons. As they created more and more turmoil, he felt "compelled" by the over-riding violence to declare "martial law." This martial law persisted for around 19 years until he was thrown out by the famous "People Power" movement.

Hopefully, the Thais will skip a generation of people living under martial law and go right into the "People Power" movement stage. We are seeing some of that now.

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Thaksin critics assaulted in latest clashes

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Violence erupted at Central World Plaza between pro- and anti-Thaksin supporters yesterday after a visit by the caretaker PM to open an education fair. Among those injured was anti-Thaksin protesters Vasuporn Boonmee, who received a gash to the neck.

Confrontations between pro- and anti-Thaksin elements escalated into full-scale violence yesterday in what was the third hostile encounter between the two sides in three days.

The mayhem, which grimly overshadowed the brisk scuffle at Siam Paragon on Saturday and Sunday’s confrontation at the Ratchapat Chandrakasem Institute, erupted as Thaksin presided over the opening of an education fair at the newly opened Central World Plaza.

Sporadic brawls broke out in different parts of the shopping mall after Thaksin left in the afternoon. It took hundreds of police officers, who were anticipating trouble, nearly an hour to restore order. Five anti-Thaksin protesters were hospitalized.

Senior figures in the caretaker government accused the anti-Thaksin People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) of provoking the violence, adding that members of the public should make their opinions known at the ballot box on October 15.

However, PAD leaders said members of the public had a constitutional right to peacefully express their disapproval of the government, and accused Thaksin supporters and security forces of instigating the violence.

Political observers expressed concern about the recent upsurge in violence between the two camps and predicted that hostilities would continue if Thaksin remains in office.

As Thaksin tried to speak at the opening of Digital TK Park on the eighth floor of Central World Plaza yesterday, he was greeted with calls of “Thaksin get out!”

Thaksin supporters responded with their trademark call of “Thaksin fight on!”

Similar incidents were repeated on several floors of the plaza and outside in the parking lot.

In one incident, a young man kicked an elderly anti-Thaksin demonstrator to the ground. Police rapidly intervened but made no arrests.

Agriculture Minister Khunying Sudarat Keyuraphan, the deputy TRT leader, said she was dismayed at what she had seen.

“From what I have observed during recent tours of several regions around the country, it appears the anti-Thaksin groups were [intent on disrupting society],” she said.

“I want to ask all sides not to do anything that will provoke the other side to react.”

Democrat party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva also expressed concern over the recent escalation in violence by both pro- and anti-Thaksin demonstrators.

“The right to express political opinions belongs to everyone,” he said. “However, this should be done within limits and not [be] violent.”

Abhisit went on to criticize Government Spokesman Surapong Suebwonglee and other ministers for accusing certain elements of masterminding the anti-Thaksin protests.

Suriyasai Katasila, a founding member of PAD, yesterday denied allegations the alliance had orchestrated the anti-Thaksin protests over the weekend.

Suriyasai also said claims that anti-Thaksin elements were plotting to assassinate the prime minister were bogus.

“The government aims to tarnish PAD’s credibility,” Suriyasai said.

“[The accusation that the People’s Alliance for Democracy is behind the violence] is untrue. PAD’s core premise is in opposing Thaksin through peaceful means in accordance with the Constitution,” he said.

“We have organized mass demonstrations attended by more than 100,000 people where not a single violent incident occurred,” he said.

“It is Thaksin himself who has created enemies all around the country.”

Pol Lt Gen Achirawit Suphannaphaysat, the national police spokesman, denied his officers had used excessive force when dealing with anti-Thaksin protesters.

“It is the job of the police to protect the leader of the country, no matter what party he belongs to,” he said.

Academics have also expressed concern about the recent clashes, adding that members of the public have a legal right under the Constitution to peacefully express their views.

“The political crisis was a result of Thaksin’s actions. [He] incited public distrust,” said Thavee Surarithikul, Dean of Political Science at Sukhothai Thammathiraj University.

“The expression of their disapproval of a political leader is a freedom they may exercise at any time. It is protected under the framework of the law,” he said.

“It is Thaksin himself who must stop all activities that incite violent confrontations,” Thavee said.

Source: ThaiDay - 22 August 2006

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I feel he is trying to set up a situation that he can claim the need for some sort of martial law that gives him complete control over all agencies.

If there is any kind of military intervention I doubt it will leave Thaksin in control.

A good point but the police are his.

A fact that has been underappreciated by too many. The government no longer trusts the army to do its bidding esp after the shock miltary reshuffle engineered in July by Army Commander Sonthi and some "charismatic figures". But even if the army wanted to move against Thaksin, the police would at least have to acquiesce, which is unlikely given that Thaksin's grip over them remains strong. But if all else fails for Thaksin, then we'll finally get to see if Sondhi's allegations about TRT training forestry officials to serve as their private army/Gestapo are true or not.

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And it would be a serious mistake to underevaluate the factor of the "charismatic person".

I believe, time is on the side of Thaksin, unfortunatly.

Time is on Thaksin's side, by the very fact that Thaksin's 20 years younger than those figures that are best placed to challenge him, unfortunately. Even if Thaksin ends up losing this battle, I would NEVER count him out. Like a bad nightmare, or Argentina's Peron, he'll try finding a way back.

Edited by tettyan
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I havn't seen any cases the other way around. Has anyone else?

Last night's Sorayuth show had footage of a lady stepping on the PM's foot 3 times "accidentally." Try doing that in most other countries without getting shot or at least dragged off by the security services. If anything, IMO the PM has shown incredible restraint (especially if we're going by local standards).

That said, I'd say it's about even, both sides starting fights and being vulgar/aggressive at these events, although it's understandable why a lot of folks around here would want to romanticize one side as thugs and the other as peaceful activists.

:D

If you have links to stories or knowledge of film footage showing anti-Thaksin demonstrators attacking children, women, and beating old men into unconsciousness that belong to the pro-Thaksin group, we'd be very interested in that. As such, there is a mountain of evidence against the pro-Thaksin group and for the anti-Thaksin movement, one small clip of someone stepping on someone's foot. Not really a rational statement to say that it's "about even," is it? :D:o Additionally, it might be good if his bodyguards learned how to deal with contact with the PM (such as stepping on his foot)... Professionals would not have allowed it occur twice.

As said before, Free Speech is fairly new here, so yes, "by local standards," Thailand is learning just what it means and that Thaksin showing "incredible restraint" (not really though, by all other accounts)... but even if he was, that should be considered the norm and not "incredible."

I realize it may take some more time for this gigantic distinction between verbal words and physical attacks to sink in, but hopefully it occurs soon.

Edited by sriracha john
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I havn't seen any cases the other way around. Has anyone else?

Last night's Sorayuth show had footage of a lady stepping on the PM's foot 3 times "accidentally." Try doing that in most other countries without getting shot or at least dragged off by the security services. If anything, IMO the PM has shown incredible restraint (especially if we're going by local standards).

That said, I'd say it's about even, both sides starting fights and being vulgar/aggressive at these events, although it's understandable why a lot of folks around here would want to romanticize one side as thugs and the other as peaceful activists.

:o

There is a difference between being vulgar and assaulting people. To date virtually all assaults we have seen have been by pro on anti protestors. I dont think that is romanticisizing. It is drawing a conclusion that in a democracy while both sides have the right to protest including verbally, neither side has the right to assault the other, and the assaults have been pretty much a one way street although I wouldnt be surprised if that changed in the current climate. Things look like they are worsening to me.

To date nobody has even been arrested for assaulting an ex-PM to the best of my knowledge. That does not augur well for arrests being made for the current round of assaults on an old man, a young woman and a five year old kid amongst others.

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I havn't seen any cases the other way around. Has anyone else?

Last night's Sorayuth show had footage of a lady stepping on the PM's foot 3 times "accidentally." Try doing that in most other countries without getting shot or at least dragged off by the security services. If anything, IMO the PM has shown incredible restraint (especially if we're going by local standards).

That said, I'd say it's about even, both sides starting fights and being vulgar/aggressive at these events, although it's understandable why a lot of folks around here would want to romanticize one side as thugs and the other as peaceful activists.

:D

I haven't seen that footage yet. It was allowed to happen 3 times? Maybe it was setup so that it would get ample coverage :o One man's foot, small potatoes compared to the crushing effect his actions and party are having on the whole country... And Sorayuth has been a coward all along, protecting his own interests and contracts. He has lost a huge part of his audience by now.

Edited by Tony Clifton
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I havn't seen any cases the other way around. Has anyone else?

Last night's Sorayuth show had footage of a lady stepping on the PM's foot 3 times "accidentally." Try doing that in most other countries without getting shot or at least dragged off by the security services. If anything, IMO the PM has shown incredible restraint (especially if we're going by local standards).

That said, I'd say it's about even, both sides starting fights and being vulgar/aggressive at these events, although it's understandable why a lot of folks around here would want to romanticize one side as thugs and the other as peaceful activists.

:o

The lady in question says she was infact a Thaksin supporter who wanted to get closer to Thaksin to see him clearly. She said one of his security tried to stop her getting closer which resulted in her falling into the PM and accidently stepping on his foot.

Apparenty the PM called her mad. She said she wasn't mad at all, it was an accident.

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:o How distresssing this must be for HRH, recovering from surgery, and seeing so much of his good work being ripped apart by divisiveness intiated by a man of greed and not of mindfulness or right action.... :D
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forestry officials as a private army, a bit scarey but it fits Thaksin to have more than one backup. Was this part of Finland? How many potential troops are there?

Sounds like part of the bill of rights from the USA

Amendment II :A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

This is a growing problem no doubt.

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If you have links to stories or knowledge of film footage showing anti-Thaksin demonstrators attacking children, women, and beating old men into unconsciousness that belong to the pro-Thaksin group, we'd be very interested in that. As such, there is a mountain of evidence against the pro-Thaksin group and for the anti-Thaksin movement, one small clip of someone stepping on someone's foot. Not really a rational statement to say that it's "about even," is it? :D:o Additionally, it might be good if his bodyguards learned how to deal with contact with the PM (such as stepping on his foot)... Professionals would not have allowed it occur twice.

I'm sure you could request such footage from the show if you were so inclined. And as someone who isn't pro or anti-Thaksin, I can rationally say (again) that it does appear that BOTH sides are acting thuggish.

The PM's bodyguards could surely do heavy handed if they had orders were to do so, but it seems his "marketing/PR" stance is to try to come across as the friendly, highly accessible PM (probably not the smartest things to do, security wise). I understand your interpretation though.

:D

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To date virtually all assaults that we have chosen to post and discuss on TV have been by pro on anti protestors. I dont think that is romanticisizing.

Myself I call that biased and romanticizing.

I'll pass on joining the photobucket party, and again, it's just my opinion.

For the record, IMO it's all the same no matter who's in power, so I don't know what all the hoop-la is about.

:o

edit: the underlined portion is by me

Edited by Heng
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I haven't seen that footage yet. It was allowed to happen 3 times? Maybe it was setup so that it would get ample coverage :o One man's foot, small potatoes compared to the crushing effect his actions and party are having on the whole country... And Sorayuth has been a coward all along, protecting his own interests and contracts. He has lost a huge part of his audience by now.

Yes, three times. And anything is possible, it might have been a setup by either side. As for Sorayuth, he's more businessman than news reporter.... not unusual at all for him to protect his interests. @ 3-4 million a month, you'd be surprised how many folks would choose not to rock the boat.

:D

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The lady in question says she was infact a Thaksin supporter who wanted to get closer to Thaksin to see him clearly. She said one of his security tried to stop her getting closer which resulted in her falling into the PM and accidently stepping on his foot.

Apparenty the PM called her mad. She said she wasn't mad at all, it was an accident.

Fortunate to get away with it for sure.

:o

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