Peace in Ukraine is goal of four-nation talks in Minsk

[webfact]

Peace in Ukraine is goal of four-nation talks in Minsk
By FRANK JORDANS and MATTHEW LEE

BERLIN (AP) — As Russian-backed separatists gain ground in eastern Ukraine, efforts to broker peace appeared to gain momentum Sunday, with leaders of Germany, France, Russia and Ukraine announcing plans for four-way talks this week.

The proposed meeting Wednesday in the Belarusian capital of Minsk emerged from a phone call between German Chancellor Angela Merkel, French President Francois Hollande, Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko.

The aim is to revive the much-violated peace plan both sides agreed to in Minsk last September, and end a war that has now killed more than 5,300 people according to United Nations estimates.

Although the United States won't be at the negotiating table, a growing clamor in Washington to arm Ukraine will be on the minds of those present in Minsk. U.S. officials have said President Barack Obama is rethinking his previous opposition to sending weapons to Ukraine, despite fears of triggering a proxy war between Washington and Moscow.

While senior diplomats from the four countries meet in Berlin to prepare for the summit, Merkel is expected to brief U.S. officials in Washington on Monday during a previously scheduled trip.

"It's a fortuitous coincidence that Merkel is going to Washington and whatever she does, Obama will be informed," said Volker Perthes, director of the German Institute for International and Security Affairs. The threat of U.S. arms shipments won't harm the talks, he added, although "if the diplomatic efforts fail then the option to ship arms becomes more likely."

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry was keen Sunday to dispel the notion of a trans-Atlantic rift, saying U.S. and its European allies are "united in our diplomacy" on Ukraine. Speaking at an international security conference in Munich, he said the U.S. supports the efforts by France and Germany.

"There is no division, there is no split," Kerry said. "I keep hearing people trying to create one. We are united, we are working closely together."

German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier, speaking alongside Kerry, said he considers delivering weapons "not just highly risky but counterproductive."

But Republican Sen. John McCain, the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, insisted in Munich that "we must provide defensive arms to Ukraine."

"If we help Ukrainians increase the military cost to the Russian forces that have invaded their country, how long can Putin sustain a war that he tells his people is not happening?"

Aside from the military cost, Russia has also been struggling with the economic impact of western sanctions and low global oil prices.

While Ukraine's Poroshenko raised the possibility that Wednesday's summit could provide a breakthrough after months of futile diplomacy, Putin insisted Sunday that the four-way meeting would only happen if they agree on key points beforehand.

"We will be aiming for Wednesday, if by that time we are able to agree on a number of the positions that we recently have been discussing intensely," he told journalists in Sochi during a meeting with the president of Belarus.

Details of the proposals have not been revealed, but the main sticking points have emerged in the leaders' recent comments.

One is enforcing a peace deal. In Munich, Poroshenko expressed opposition to any peacekeeper force, apparently reflecting concern that sending Russian peacekeeping troops into eastern Ukraine could result in a de-facto occupation.

However, key to a real settlement is some mechanism for monitoring the Ukraine-Russia border to ensure that Russia is not sending troops or equipment to the separatists. Ukrainian officials would have the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe conduct such monitoring.

The status of the eastern regions remains contentious. Ukraine passed a law last year proposing what it called significant autonomy for the east, but rebels dismissed it as vague and meaningless. Russia has pushed for "federalization" of Ukraine, which would presumably give the east significant independence, but Ukrainian authorities oppose any federalization.

How to separate the belligerents also remains unclear. The Minsk agreement in September foresaw each side pulling back its heavy weapons 15 kilometers (more than 9 miles) from the lines of engagement. But the rebels have taken control of more territory since then, implying that a new buffer zone would have to be mapped.

Kiev is refusing to allow the separatists a place at the top-level talks. Instead, their representatives would join a parallel meeting, to be held by Wednesday in Minsk, between the signatories to last September's accord.
_____

Lee reported from Munich; Associated Press writers Geir Moulson and David Rising in Munich, Sylvie Corbet in Paris, and Jim Heintz and Lynn Berry in Moscow contributed to this story.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-02-09

[F430murci]

As started in other thread:

"If Putin does not resolve this on Wednesday, watch oil prices, watch Ruble, watch food prices in Russia, watch for lines at Russian Banks and watch what happens to Russia's stock."

I sincerely hope they work this out on Wednesday. Things are getting bad in Russia. Everything will nose dive after Wednesday if they don't resolve.

[asiamaster]

As started in other thread:

"If Putin does not resolve this on Wednesday, watch oil prices, watch Ruble, watch food prices in Russia, watch for lines at Russian Banks and watch what happens to Russia's stock."

I sincerely hope they work this out on Wednesday. Things are getting bad in Russia. Everything will nose dive after Wednesday if they don't resolve.

I sincerely hope they work this out on Wednesday. Things are getting bad in EUROPE. Everything will nose dive after Wednesday if they don't resolve.

[PepperMe]

This is not going to be allowed to prosper. It is against US policy whatever they claim it to be... The wise know better.

This is the first sign in the break in the ranks between the EU and US foreign policy of aggression.

Two possible reasons for this... The EU leaders are starting to see through the US and the way they have instigated this crisis from the start, or it is because since the US mentioned the words "lethal aid" the leaders have realised that they are going to be pushed into a highly probable world war with Russia and its allies, something not a single European country will desire.

Even if an agreement comes hot off the press, I can guarantee you it will not sit well with the USA. They will probably either ship their "lethal aid" forcing Russia to pull out of any agreement, or they will engage in covert operations to re-destabilize the region once again provoking Russia to breech the agreement.

Whatever they choose to do, they will make sure it looks to the world like Russia is causing the problems.

Merkel and Hollande are wasting their time. They would be much better off brokering a deal for peace with a condition that if the USA interferes, the EU will vote against being a US ally.

Also the lifting of sanctions should be on the table. Russia gets sanctions put on them for doing nothing different than what the USA does almost every year somewhere in the world.

[Baerboxer]

This is not going to be allowed to prosper. It is against US policy whatever they claim it to be... The wise know better.

This is the first sign in the break in the ranks between the EU and US foreign policy of aggression.

Two possible reasons for this... The EU leaders are starting to see through the US and the way they have instigated this crisis from the start, or it is because since the US mentioned the words "lethal aid" the leaders have realised that they are going to be pushed into a highly probable world war with Russia and its allies, something not a single European country will desire.

Even if an agreement comes hot off the press, I can guarantee you it will not sit well with the USA. They will probably either ship their "lethal aid" forcing Russia to pull out of any agreement, or they will engage in covert operations to re-destabilize the region once again provoking Russia to breech the agreement.

Whatever they choose to do, they will make sure it looks to the world like Russia is causing the problems.

Merkel and Hollande are wasting their time. They would be much better off brokering a deal for peace with a condition that if the USA interferes, the EU will vote against being a US ally.

Also the lifting of sanctions should be on the table. Russia gets sanctions put on them for doing nothing different than what the USA does almost every year somewhere in the world.

Yes appease the nice Mr. Putin and take all the sanctions of innocent mother Russia.

Give away Ukrainian sovereignty over Ukrainian land and let those areas ally more with Russia, who colonized and massacred Ukrainians at will in the past.

Sounds a bit like giving Sudetenland to Hitler, and fcku the Czechs to stave of WW11. As silly Chamberlain said "peace in our time". That worked well.

[F430murci]

This is not going to be allowed to prosper. It is against US policy whatever they claim it to be... The wise know better.

This is the first sign in the break in the ranks between the EU and US foreign policy of aggression.

Two possible reasons for this... The EU leaders are starting to see through the US and the way they have instigated this crisis from the start, or it is because since the US mentioned the words "lethal aid" the leaders have realised that they are going to be pushed into a highly probable world war with Russia and its allies, something not a single European country will desire.

Even if an agreement comes hot off the press, I can guarantee you it will not sit well with the USA. They will probably either ship their "lethal aid" forcing Russia to pull out of any agreement, or they will engage in covert operations to re-destabilize the region once again provoking Russia to breech the agreement.

Whatever they choose to do, they will make sure it looks to the world like Russia is causing the problems.

Merkel and Hollande are wasting their time. They would be much better off brokering a deal for peace with a condition that if the USA interferes, the EU will vote against being a US ally.

Also the lifting of sanctions should be on the table. Russia gets sanctions put on them for doing nothing different than what the USA does almost every year somewhere in the world.

Obama could give two rats arssses about Ukraine. He does not want to there or anywhere close there. Obama is bothered by this world noise because it keeps him away from his true agenda of wealth shifting which is purely a domestic issue.

US has learned that these conflict solve nothing and are too dang expensive.

I candidly think Obana's sanction have more to do in a personal level than a political level as Putin showed him up on Snowden and in Syria.

No one is breaking away from the US. I guarantee you that Obama fully supports Merkel and Hollande's efforts. Obama is smart to to realize we are playing on a slippery slope and this thing needs to resolve ASAP.

I really hate to see our two nations getting torn apart. Poor Russians. Got a taste of what is was like being in the world market only to be thrown right back into another 1990s episode.

The below article clearly demonstrates that Putin is the key here and is dictating what happens Wednesday.

-------

But Putin warned in a newspaper interview that Kiev must stop its military operation in east Ukraine and stop exerting economic pressure on rebel-held regions.

"Kiev's attempts to exert economic pressure on Donbas (region of east Ukraine) and disrupt its daily life only aggravates the situation. This is a dead-end track, fraught with a big catastrophe," Putin told Egyptian state newspaper Al-Ahram, according to an English transcript provided by the Kremlin.

. . .

But German officials say Putin has shown little appetite for compromise and they acknowledge in private that he has repeatedly broken promises in the past.

One senior official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the Russian leader might have little incentive to clinch a peace deal now, while pro-Russian rebels are making gains on the ground in eastern Ukraine.

"He can sit back and wait as the pressure steadily builds on Ukraine and its leaders," the official said.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0LC0K820150208?irpc=932

Edited February 9, 2015 by F430murci

[Scott]

A troll post has been removed.

[F430murci]

This is not going to be allowed to prosper. It is against US policy whatever they claim it to be... The wise know better.

This is the first sign in the break in the ranks between the EU and US foreign policy of aggression.

Two possible reasons for this... The EU leaders are starting to see through the US and the way they have instigated this crisis from the start, or it is because since the US mentioned the words "lethal aid" the leaders have realised that they are going to be pushed into a highly probable world war with Russia and its allies, something not a single European country will desire.

Even if an agreement comes hot off the press, I can guarantee you it will not sit well with the USA. They will probably either ship their "lethal aid" forcing Russia to pull out of any agreement, or they will engage in covert operations to re-destabilize the region once again provoking Russia to breech the agreement.

Whatever they choose to do, they will make sure it looks to the world like Russia is causing the problems.

Merkel and Hollande are wasting their time. They would be much better off brokering a deal for peace with a condition that if the USA interferes, the EU will vote against being a US ally.

Also the lifting of sanctions should be on the table. Russia gets sanctions put on them for doing nothing different than what the USA does almost every year somewhere in the world.

Obama could give two rats arssses about Ukraine. He does not want to there or anywhere close there. Obama is bothered by this world noise because it keeps him away from his true agenda of wealth shifting which is purely a domestic issue.

US has learned that these conflict solve nothing and are too dang expensive.

I candidly think Obana's sanction have more to do in a personal level than a political level as Putin showed him up on Snowden and in Syria.

No one is breaking away from the US. I guarantee you that Obama fully supports Merkel and Hollande's efforts. Obama is smart to to realize we are playing on a slippery slope and this thing needs to resolve ASAP.

I really hate to see our two nations getting torn apart. Poor Russians. Got a taste of what is was like being in the world market only to be thrown right back into another 1990s episode.

The below article clearly demonstrates that Putin is the key here and is dictating what happens Wednesday.

-------

But Putin warned in a newspaper interview that Kiev must stop its military operation in east Ukraine and stop exerting economic pressure on rebel-held regions.

"Kiev's attempts to exert economic pressure on Donbas (region of east Ukraine) and disrupt its daily life only aggravates the situation. This is a dead-end track, fraught with a big catastrophe," Putin told Egyptian state newspaper Al-Ahram, according to an English transcript provided by the Kremlin.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0LC0K820150208?irpc=932

The reason that the US is doing this at all is because Russia is a threat to the USD and the US economy and while at the moment it is at its most fragile in its entire history, Russia and China with the help of many other nations and organizations such as OPEC were poised to crash the USD thus causing the US economy to completely implode.

That is what the US is trying to subvert. That is why the US are trying to crash the Russian economy first, if they fail, they WILL resort to the last chance saloon....... Military aggression. That nobody will join them in..... Not even NATO, and certainly not the EU or their long time and biggest allies the UK.

Fact.

Lol, nothing fact there!!!!

Pray tell what Russia cod do to kill the US dollar and implode US economy.

Most fragile in history??? Nah, I would say 2008 and 2009 was a fragile time . US is fine now, especially if we can stay out if these dang conflicts.

[asiamaster]

Lol, nothing fact there!!!!

Pray tell what Russia cod do to kill the US dollar and implode US economy.

Most fragile in history??? Nah, I would say 2008 and 2009 was a fragile time . US is fine now, especially if we can stay out if these dang conflicts.

For a change I agree with you. The US is quite self-sufficient in particular when it comes to energy. Europe on the other hand is very dependent on oil and gas from Russia.

The sanctions against Russia, although they don't admit it are seriously backfiring on several European countries and in particular Germany.

I do agree with Pepper Me that Russia and China are a threat to US global dominance and the petrodollar but this would not be enough to kill the US dollar and implode the US economy. Perhaps the US will self destruct.....

It may seem that we are off topic here but IMO this is about more than just peace in the Ukraine ( yes you read it right: THE Ukraine - the "border territories" - not a sovereign State - a failed state at most.)