General or Family visitor visa

[griffer]

I have lived in Thailand for more than 10 years. I have used it as a base and worked throughout Asia.

I have a partner(girlfriend) whom I have I known for more than 5 years, and lived with for more than 3 years. She has a son of 9 years old. She works full-time and has property in Thailand.

I am returning to the UK to work. She will not come to live there(for now), because of her family commitments in Thailand, but will visit regularly(every 3 months for 3 weeks)

She has a current General visit visa for the UK that we used at Christmas for a 3 week holiday and she will go again for 3 weeks in March.

My question is about the next type of visa she will apply for. I was intending to apply for a 2 or 3 year visa for her.

As I understand it, the Family visit visa allows her to stay longer in the UK. This may or may not prove useful.

Are there other subtle differences that I am not aware of?

We have accommodation and sufficient finances for either visa. Is there anything I have overlooked that may prevent a successful application?

many thanks.

[theoldgit]

There is very little difference between a General and Family Visit Visa, the latter certainly doesn't allow the holder to stay longer.

General Visit Visas are intended for regular tourists and Family Visit Visas for those visiting or travelling with members of their family. The advantage of a Family Visa used to be the right of appeal, this was removed a couple of years ago and there is no advantage with one over the other, the burden of proof is the same, the Family Visa certainly doesn't allow a longer stay.

A longer term visit visa is intended for those who can demonstrate the need to visit on a regular basis, they would normally be issued to those who have a number of visas in the past, though that isn't set in concrete. A longer term visa doesn't allow the holder to stay in the UK any longer than six months in a twelve month period.

You say your girlfriend works full time and that probably helped convince the ECO that she would return home when they were considering her earlier application, coupled with the fact that you lived together in Thailand. Things have now changed, you will no longer be living in Thailand and she plans to visit every three months for three weeks, so what about her job?

[griffer]

I may not have been clear. I understand that both visas have distinct time limitations. It was the regularity of the visits that i was questioning. If we plan on her visiting every 3 months for 3 weeks, does it not make more sense for those visits to be based on visiting a partner (Family visa) rather than as a tourist (General visa)?

As i said, she has too many family ties and financial commitments in Thailand to consider a permanent move as this point. Her company understands the situation and has agreed to her taking unpaid leave.

My inclination is to apply for a two year family visa. Would anyone advise against that?

many thanks.

[7by7]

Both a general and a family visit visa only allow a maximum of 6 months in the UK per visit; no matter the term of the visa.

In addition, although it is not a hard and fast rule, visitors are not supposed to spend more than 6 months out of any 12 in the UK.

No one can say for sure, but the pattern of visits you are suggesting could be viewed by an Entry Clearance Officer assessing her application to amount to de facto residence and if so any application would be refused.

VAT1.5 Frequency and duration of visits

There is no restriction on the number of visits a person may make to the UK nor any requirement that a specified time must elapse between successive visits. However, the Immigration Rules state that the applicant must show that they do not intend to live in the UK for extended periods through frequent and successive visits. An ECO must consider the reason for a series of visits with only brief intervals outside the UK between each visit. The ECO must consider the purpose of the visit against the time elapsed between visits and the duration of previous visits to the UK.

There is no Rule that states a visitor can only remain in the UK for 6 out of any 12 months, but an ECO must examine the pattern and frequency of visits to see that it does not amount to de facto residence

If the visa were issued, then, again, the pattern of visits you suggest could be viewed by Immigration at her UK port of entry as de facto residence, similar instructions to the above are in their guidance. If so then, even though she had a valid visa, she would be refused entry to the UK and put on the next plane back to Thailand.

There is nothing in the rules to say how many 6 months visit visas someone must have before they can apply for a longer term.

However VAT1.4 Visa validity - What period for a multiple entry visit visa?

Applications for long term visit visas will be considered in the light of:
•Credible ongoing reason to visit. A successful applicant must demonstrate a frequent and sustained need to come to the UK, such as family links or an established business connection.
•Stability of personal circumstances. As far as possible applicants ‘status should be unlikely to change significantly during the validity of the visa. The better able the applicant is to demonstrate stability over the long term the more it will support an application for a longer period of validity.
•Successful applicants will also need to demonstrate that they are able to support themselves in the UK without recourse to public funds, and demonstrate that they would intend to leave the UK at the end of each visit.
•Previous travel history as evidenced in a current valid passport, which might include travel to Australia, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand, Schengen countries, Switzerland, or the USA in the same category as the application to the UK, for example, as a visitor. Holding a valid visa for any of the aforementioned countries, evidence they complied with conditions of entry, that applications for these countries were not refused nor were they removed from a country on their last trip, would all help to support the application.

In all instances, if an ECO decides that a shorter validity of visit visa is more appropriate than the one applied for...... no refund (full or partial) is available.

(my emphasis)

I also doubt that the ECO will find it credible that her employer is willing to give her three weeks holiday every three months, even if it is unpaid.

How many UK employers would be willing to do that? None, I suggest.

[griffer]

many thanks for your opinion...

I would find it draconian if two 3 week visits in a 7 month period was considered "de facto residence",,,,but I am not an ECO and I am interested in the opinion of others who may have had experience.

As to the veracity of her contract of employment; we would be supplying employers contact details with the application, as we have done before.

thanks.

[7by7]

I, too, would be interested to hear the opinion of more knowledgeable members, such as Tony M, on whether spending 3 weeks out of every 12 indefinitely may be viewed by UKVI as de facto residence.

As to the veracity of her contract of employment; we would be supplying employers contact details with the application, as we have done before.

Even if her employer confirms that she is being given three weeks off every three months; the question is whether or not the ECO believes it.

To the best of my knowledge, the average annual holiday in Thailand is just two weeks.

In the UK, such an arrangement would be highly unusual. When my wife's father was terminally ill she asked her UK employer if she could have three months unpaid holiday to travel to Thailand to be with him at the end. They refused, telling her she would have to resign and then apply for her job when she returned. (She did resign, then got a job with someone else on her return.)

It is situations such as these which the ECO will consider when judging whether or not your girlfriend being given 3 weeks out of every 12 indefinitely as holiday is credible.

I'm sorry, but the UK immigration rules are simply not designed for people in your situation.

As you say, that is my opinion.

If she does apply, please let us know how she gets on.

Edited February 12, 2015 by 7by7