Uk Settlement Visa Refused - Lack Of Documentation Supplied

[Coire67]

Hi my girlfreind has just had her application for a UK settlement visa refused on the grounds that I had not provided documentary evidence that I was financially supporting her or that we had kept in regular contact with her whilst I was out of Thailand.

BUT, we DID supply all the required documentary evidence when we submitted her application, however I have no means of proving this. Obviously we intend to appeal and resubmit all the documentation that was sent with the original application but obviously "lost".

My question is how will this be viewed in the appeal will the documentory evidence now be considered, will they accept the fact that they lost the original documentation. Will the "new" documents be considered as part of the appeal process?

Thanks

[the scouser]

Did the visa officer say that no supporting evidence was submitted, or did he comment that that which was provided was insufficient? What I'm trying to get at is can you be sure that the visa section lost the documents?

When it comes to the appeal, you can resubmit the "old" evidence and any new which is relevant.

Scouse.

[Coire67]

Hi thanks for your response

In her report the ECO wrote "insufficient evidence", however my girlfriend said during the interview the ECO said they had "no evidence" of financial support and "no evidence" of contact

However, considering we submitted 15+ Wester Union money transfers covering a period of 14 months and telephone bills for the same period each with 5-6 relevant calls on them I fail to see how this is insufficient evidence.

cheers

[GU22]

What does the actual written refusal notice say? Exact words if possible.

If you do appeal, then you can submit additional evidence. She should have the documents returned to her, so you will be able to see what they had.

[atlastaname]

Clearly you can appeal but you don't want to do that until you've contacted the ECM (manager) first. If you think they have lost your documents (which is unlikely) then a call to the ECM explaining this and asking him/her to investigate will yield results quickly. If , as i suspect is the case, they are saying you have not provided enough documentation they at least you will know this and can then appeal. The appeal costs quite a bit especially if you are to be represented and takes several months because the embassy are given a few months to submit the papers to the UK and then you are in a queue for a few months. So early next year is likely.

So its in your interests to establish if the documents are lost or just insufficient. A phone call will answer this .

As GU22 says , if you care to post the exact wording of the refusal all will become clear.

[GuestHouse]

With the applications we make, and due to moving around with my job we make a lot of applications, we always add and index of enclosures to my wife’s visa application together with notes supporting the application where we feel it necessary to clarify points and questions in the forms.

Example from recent application.

---------------------------

Enclosed with this application:

a. Letter supporting my application from my husband

b. Passport (Applicant’s Full Name): Nationality Thai: Passport No. ********

c. VAF1 completed and with Photographs

d. ‘Payment – Cashier Cheque No payable to ‘ British Embassy’ (As per instructions).

Attachments to VAF1

1. Supplementary Information in Support of my Visa Application

2. Proof of My Residence - Permesso Di Soggiorno – (No **** - Applicant’s full name)

3. Proof of My Husband’s Residence - Permesso Di Soggiorno – (No **** - Applicant’s Husbands full name)

4. Proof of Marriage - Marriage Certificate (Certified True Copy)

5. Proof of Husband’s British Citizenship - Husband’s British Passport No ********* (Copy + Original)

6. Proof of Employment and Income – Contract of Employment (Copy)

7. Confirmation of Husband’s Employment – Dated Letter From Employer (Original)

8. Proof of Husband’s Salary – Pay Slips (Copies)

Please note:

1. Our Certificate of Marriage is a Certified Copy.

2. My husband’s Pay Slips are copies on account that his employers distribute Pay Slips via the company Intranet, original Pay Slips are not issued.

3. I have provided Copies and Originals of my husband’s Passport

--------------------------

We also number and title each attachment exactly as we describe them in the list of Enclosures above. For example: The letter confirming my employment will have the following clearly written on the bottom of the page

Visa Application (Applicant’s Name)

Attachment 7 – Confirmation of Husband’s Employment.

Within the application form we add notes to the attachments, so if the question is ‘What is your marital status?’ we tick “Married” and then add a note in the margin ‘Refer Attachment 4”.

Having assembled all the documents we then check them, check they are all in the right order, that all the cross references match and then photocopy the whole lot.

There are a number of benefits in taking this approach, firstly you can set out your application in a logical manner that is easy for you and importantly the visa officer to understand.

The other benefit is you can easily review the application to see if you have actually answered the questions before you submit.

Importantly, if you do need to make an appeal, a well formatted application is always easier to review and having a copy helps you go back over the information to ensure you have not missed anything.

[GU22]

Sound advice from Guesthouse.

Present the documents in a neat file, indexed and cross referenced if necessary. This not only makes it easier for the ECO to find what they are looking for, it also makes it less likely that anything can get seperated and lost.

[markuk]

With the applications we make, and due to moving around with my job we make a lot of applications, we always add and index of enclosures to my wife’s visa application together with notes supporting the application where we feel it necessary to clarify points and questions in the forms.

Example from recent application.

---------------------------

Enclosed with this application:

a. Letter supporting my application from my husband

b. Passport (Applicant’s Full Name): Nationality Thai: Passport No. ********

c. VAF1 completed and with Photographs

d. ‘Payment – Cashier Cheque No payable to ‘ British Embassy’ (As per instructions).

Attachments to VAF1

1. Supplementary Information in Support of my Visa Application

2. Proof of My Residence - Permesso Di Soggiorno – (No **** - Applicant’s full name)

3. Proof of My Husband’s Residence - Permesso Di Soggiorno – (No **** - Applicant’s Husbands full name)

4. Proof of Marriage - Marriage Certificate (Certified True Copy)

5. Proof of Husband’s British Citizenship - Husband’s British Passport No ********* (Copy + Original)

6. Proof of Employment and Income – Contract of Employment (Copy)

7. Confirmation of Husband’s Employment – Dated Letter From Employer (Original)

8. Proof of Husband’s Salary – Pay Slips (Copies)

Please note:

1. Our Certificate of Marriage is a Certified Copy.

2. My husband’s Pay Slips are copies on account that his employers distribute Pay Slips via the company Intranet, original Pay Slips are not issued.

3. I have provided Copies and Originals of my husband’s Passport

--------------------------

We also number and title each attachment exactly as we describe them in the list of Enclosures above. For example: The letter confirming my employment will have the following clearly written on the bottom of the page

Visa Application (Applicant’s Name)

Attachment 7 – Confirmation of Husband’s Employment.

Within the application form we add notes to the attachments, so if the question is ‘What is your marital status?’ we tick “Married” and then add a note in the margin ‘Refer Attachment 4”.

Having assembled all the documents we then check them, check they are all in the right order, that all the cross references match and then photocopy the whole lot.

There are a number of benefits in taking this approach, firstly you can set out your application in a logical manner that is easy for you and importantly the visa officer to understand.

The other benefit is you can easily review the application to see if you have actually answered the questions before you submit.

Importantly, if you do need to make an appeal, a well formatted application is always easier to review and having a copy helps you go back over the information to ensure you have not missed anything.

i do a similar thing, never face a problem and each year i submit exaclty the same model / info just updated - that way if they check old applications it all matches. No point in lying or hiding anything IMO.

[connor]

Hi

Is it not supposed to be a VAF2 for settlement?

Have i misread sorry?

[the scouser]

Yes, it is, but Guesthouse provided just an example. It could be any form.

Scouse.

[Coire67]

What does the actual written refusal notice say? Exact words if possible.

If you do appeal, then you can submit additional evidence. She should have the documents returned to her, so you will be able to see what they had.

The refusal letter stated "You claim your sponsor provides financial assistance through money transfers. However, you have not provided sufficient evidence to substantiate this claim."

I've just recounted and we provided 14 Western Union money transfer receipts covering the the complete 14 month period we have known each other. How much more evidence do they require? We provided evidence of every transfer made so we cannot provide any more evidence than we already have.

BTW no documentation was returned to her. only her passport, refusal letter and appeal documentation.

[the scouser]

Coire67,

Providing that the transfer slips identify the sender and recipient, I would suggest that they are sufficient to attain the balance of probabilities and thereby demonstrate that you have been supporting your girlfriend.

If the decision is so flawed, it may be that representations to either the ECM, or UK Visas, or both, can get it overturned prior to any appeal. However, regardless of whether of what other action you take, make sure the appeal form is submitted to either the embassy or the AIT in Loughborough within the 28-day window.

If you wish to go down this path, then by all means contact me by either PM or e-mail and I will give you an assessment of your chances. Before you contact me on a professional basis, I will point out that you can seek such advice from either any other OISC registered adviser or solicitor who specialises in immigration law.

Scouse.

[Coire67]

Thanks for the offer, Scouse, but I've engaged Solicitor specializing in immigration in my home-town - Rochdale is a bit far away

but thanks for your opinions.

I have sent you a PM with one more question that is slightly more sensative, I would appreciate it if you could give me your opinion on it.

Cheers

[Livinginexile]

Hi my girlfreind has just had her application for a UK settlement visa refused on the grounds that I had not provided documentary evidence that I was financially supporting her or that we had kept in regular contact with her whilst I was out of Thailand.

BUT, we DID supply all the required documentary evidence when we submitted her application, however I have no means of proving this. Obviously we intend to appeal and resubmit all the documentation that was sent with the original application but obviously "lost".

My question is how will this be viewed in the appeal will the documentory evidence now be considered, will they accept the fact that they lost the original documentation. Will the "new" documents be considered as part of the appeal process?

Thanks

I am sorry to hear that Corie, it must have been a shocking bit of news for you both. May I sugest that maybe the way you presented your Western Union money transfers was not detailed enough. Example;

How did you present this evidence? with photo copies of receipts? and if so, did you get the copies certified? can you prove she was the recipient of these funds?

They are very particular about these details and maybe the proof that you send...and she recieved these funds was not sufficient.

Can you tell us what you submitted as evidence please?

Martin

[GU22]

The refusal letter stated "You claim your sponsor provides financial assistance through money transfers. However, you have not provided sufficient evidence to substantiate this claim."

Was this all it said? Was this the only reason given for the refusal?

If so then as Scouse says, provided the evidence supplied identifies both sender and recipient, the refusal is certainly unjustified and a request to the ECM to review it may very well be successful.

[atlastaname]

Even I can't believe that the worst ECO could or would refuse on that sentance alone. They usually find a couple of core reasons and then pad it out with a couple of trivial ones for effect. That was not the only reason they gave for refusal especially as if they didn't like the way you presented the receipts (hard to see how else you could present them) they would have asked you for more details. No there has to be more. No ECM could rubber stamp this refusal on that alone .

Of course you would win on appeal IF that was all, but you don't want to go down that long road. Have you contacted the ECM like we have all suggested ?

[donmac]

]I am really sorry to hear that they refused it on those grounds as if not seeing your wife was bad enough. My wife and I are about to hand in our folder of evidence to the embassy after she has finishes it of. It arrived in Thailand a few days ago and now I am bricking it because I have also enclosed 3 western union transfers and two bank transfers adding up to £500-£600 for the past two months plus the only way we have contact each other is mobile and I have been buying phone cards 35 in total (south east Asia cards 55 min each card) and there is no record apart from that. I first read that someone got theirs in 4 days now I read it is going to take much much longer if it is refused. You are going to have to turn a negative into a positive they will try to stop you from seeing each other but they will fail if you two are strong.

D.

[GU22]

Donmac, I wouldn't worry too much As suggested by nearly every respondent, there must be more to this refusal than the OP has said.

Shame he hasn't come back to clarify the position; but that's his choice.

[Mossfinn]

now I am bricking it because I have also enclosed 3 western union transfers and two bank transfers adding up to £500-£600 for the past two months

Hi donmac, as GU22 has stated in his post above, I would suggest there might be other reasons, the reason why I say this is because I supplied very little evidence of support in documents relating to money transfers.

There was never any suggestion that the application as a whole was lacking either, but I have been a little confused, in parts anyway,in relation to the supporting evidence through money transfer, but as you and the OP have supplied evidence this should be as stated by the informed guys as suitable.

Perhaps it is very important, perhaps it is not, I havn't gone thru and re-read all the posts but it was not a significant factor in my application.

Good Luck with your application

Moss

[DC1066]

How important is evidence of financial support in the visa issue process?

The reason I ask is that whilst I have given money, I haven't any evidence of this as I've always given the money in cash during my regular visits.

I don't see this mentioned in the items required for submittance and it doesn't have a natural fit within the 3 main criteria for visa issue, i.e, genuine relationship; suitable accomodation; no recourse to public funds.

If it is an issue, how should I tackle it within our application?

[gazzani]

Hi thanks for your response

In her report the ECO wrote "insufficient evidence", however my girlfriend said during the interview the ECO said they had "no evidence" of financial support and "no evidence" of contact

However, considering we submitted 15+ Wester Union money transfers covering a period of 14 months and telephone bills for the same period each with 5-6 relevant calls on them I fail to see how this is insufficient evidence.

i had the same problem myself, Embassy said could not support her with out recourse of public funds,i provided 3 years tax returns and accounts ,said could not provide a suitable accommodation even though i proved i owned a three bedroom detached house . those guys at the embassy must hit a quota and then say no more . either that or there thick

[donmac]

Cheers

This whole process is doing my nut in hopefully this will be the last time I have to deal with the British embassy for a quite a while.

Just went over the original post again and was just wondering if you can get a settlement visa for a girlfriend?

Edited August 30, 2006 by donmac

[GU22]

DC1066,

Providing financial support to the applicant is not a requirement of obtaining a settlement visa. It can help to prove the relationship, but if the amounts sent are exceptionally large then it can cause the ECO to question the motives of the applicant (and the gullibility of the sponsor!).

Gazzani,

Sending money to her while she is in Thailand is different to being able to support and accommodate her once she is in the UK.

There is no quota system. I cannot comment on the intelligence or otherwise of the ECOs, nor on the quality of the evidence you supplied without further information on that evidence.

Donmac,

There are two types of settlement visa if applicant and sponsor are unmarried; a fiance visa and an unmarried partners visa.

[Coire67]

Donmac, I wouldn't worry too much As suggested by nearly every respondent, there must be more to this refusal than the OP has said.

Shame he hasn't come back to clarify the position; but that's his choice.

Sorry for te delay in getting back to you folks, but I was rather busy organising a brief for our appeal. That done I can now answer your queries.

There were several reasons sited, but they were all along the lines of "not enough evidence " for this, that and the other and other parts of the refusal letter were just plain incorrect. There was only one part of the refusal letter that was correct - I had forgotten to include proof of ownership of my house.

However, my brief, does not share the ECO's opinion, having shown him the evidence we provided.

But as my brief is in the process of preparing an appeal I don't think it is wise for me to provide more details here in an open forum.

So thanks everybody for your comments and advice but please don't ask for more info as none will be forthcoming.

Cheers

[atlastaname]

Well like i said , there's was a lot more to this refusal than at first met the eye.

[Teckeluk]

]I am really sorry to hear that they refused it on those grounds as if not seeing your wife was bad enough. My wife and I are about to hand in our folder of evidence to the embassy after she has finishes it of. It arrived in Thailand a few days ago and now I am bricking it because I have also enclosed 3 western union transfers and two bank transfers adding up to £500-£600 for the past two months plus the only way we have contact each other is mobile and I have been buying phone cards 35 in total (south east Asia cards 55 min each card) and there is no record apart from that. I first read that someone got theirs in 4 days now I read it is going to take much much longer if it is refused. You are going to have to turn a negative into a positive they will try to stop you from seeing each other but they will fail if you two are strong.

D.

Well, all I can say is "have faith"

We got married in Bangkok last 2/10 and applied for a settlement visa around the middle December. My wife got her interview for the 4/1. After a two hour wait she had the 1 hour interview. 2/3 days later she checked the website and saw she had been refused. Scouser may recall, I spoke to him about what to do. I looked and phoned the AIT and I wrote our response to each item. Lack of contact, remembering my phone number, wrong date of first meeting and a couple of related items to add weight. We sent in the appeal with the response and 1 year of landline bills and 6 months of mobile bills to the embassy on 22/1. My wife said "can you call them" I said "they not interested in me". Well, I said, leave it 10 days. She was going to call this tuesday just gone in the afternoon. The embassy phoned in the morning and granted her the visa.

We are both over the moon. All being well she be in UK 1st April.

All the best to everyone. I don't reply, but I do read what is said on here, and most is very helpful..

[the scouser]

That's good news. I should have charged you!

Scouse.

[atlastaname]

Well done....eventually!!

Although it seems you were at least partly to blame for the initial refusal , its a shame a process is not in place where the applicant can be told what is lacking and quickly provide it rather than have to wait almost 6 months and a lot of expense to be given what they could have been given 6 months ago.

Another success story .. in the end

[Mossfinn]

The embassy phoned in the morning and granted her the visa.

We are both over the moon. All being well she be in UK 1st April.

Good Luck

Moss