Z800 vs 650 F

[Shurup]

You could probably steal a 2013 Z1000 for close to the price of a new Z800- I see them for sale all the time on the Thai FB bike sites. Prices are really dropping on used bikes, and there are a lot of 'motivated sellers'.

Call me old-fashioned but I don't use FB, but do of course pay attention to the more regular known sites with classified ads. But as my Thai wife is a frequent FB-user(anyone know of a Thai lady who is'nt?), I let her dive in to the FB bike sites. Thanks for the suggestion mate

Check out this FB group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/bigbikemarket/

It's a closed group so your wife will need to send the request to join it.

Lots of bikes there of all sorts and I see some good deals on some newer bikes every once in a while.

[eisfeld]

For me personally between CB650F and Z800 it would be the Honda. Z800 got more oomph (noticeable) but it's heavier, and for me the killer no ABS. The CB650F is plenty comfy (I did 800km in one go on it). I prefer the styling of the Z800 as it's aggressive but the CB is not ugly either.

If you ride a lot and for a bit longer or if you value ABS, there is a pretty clear winner. If you do short rides and want to be more of a hooligan, get the Z800.

If you have a bit more cash be sure to check out the Street Triple or MT-09 but their dealer networks are lacking.

Regarding the Monster: end of the year Ducati will bring the current Monster 821 to Thailand which is a big upgrade from the 796. But now you are in 450-500k THB territory.

At about the same price as the Z800 you can also get the new Scrambler if you like this kind of styling. Or are you set on a inline 4 engine?

What's your budget and what's your intended riding?

Well on the financial site the Z800 at about 375 K would be my limit and I guess I would use the bike 80% commuter wise and 20% longer distance trips. Other members also stated that the Honda is far more comfy to ride on longer distances and no I don't want to be the local biker hooligan. The CB 650 F has, as already mentioned, advantages over the Z800: considerable lower price and weight, ABS and more comfortable to ride on day or even week trips. If the Z800 only did'nt have that 100+ HP and class leading torque at relatively low revs. I'm not interested in topspeed and Thai road and traffic conditions make this obsolete anyway, but I admit I like a 0-60 sprint.....

with the low down torque of 650 honda, i am sure you never miss z800.

plus add a full system exhaust, an aftermarket air filer and a dynojet pc5 suddenly you have a 100 hp bike.

with 100 k you save, you can get these for 40 k, a set of pirellis and ohlins shock for 30 k and still you have money left for service for 50 k kmh and you have a bike better than z800 dynamically and nearly closer in performance.

The low down torque is true, 6th gear all the way from 30km/h to 200km/h without stalling down low. Love that.

[brfsa2]

yes, there is probably a CB800 coming out really soon. Definitely November 2015 in Thailand.

in Brazil i heard stories of workers learning to assemble the CB800F, very similar to the previous hornet, upside down forks, same power, better rear suspension.

But the CB650 is a no brainer purchase for under 375K, you will have lots of money left for upgrades, good tires, ohlins suspension, and a full system.

I dont see anymore the Street-Triple for 420K, only the Speed-Triple-R at 460K.

The MT-07 might also be on your list, if you can wait a month or two. it has more torque than the CB650F up to 8000RPM. a really fun bike! should be priced between CB650 and Z800, a good spot in fact.

[Rhys]

The Honda 650.. looks like a compact muscle bike, but more comfortable.. lighter on the wallet as well.

[bealus]

I see loads of Z800 in Pattaya, not so many CB650's.

Thais normally want as much bang for the buck as possible so many choose the Zed, don't think they care too much about ABS.

I haven't tried either bike so I cannot give you any recommendations which of the 2 bikes to get, it all depends how experienced you are and if you can live without ABS.

Now you tried the Zed and liked it, so suggest you see it you can try a CBR650 and then make up your mind.

This can off-course turn into an underwhelming experience since the Zed got what 112hp? and the CBR 85hp.

HP is not everything, much depends what you will use the bike for.

The Zed got 113 HP at 10.200 rpm and torque of 83 NM at 8500 rpm(some sites mention 8000)

CB 650 F 87 HP 11.000 rpm 62 NM 8000 rpm

Like I said before I'm more interested in torque than HP, even though the Zed has more of both, and more important you really have to rev up the Honda to its max specs.

[bealus]

You could probably steal a 2013 Z1000 for close to the price of a new Z800- I see them for sale all the time on the Thai FB bike sites. Prices are really dropping on used bikes, and there are a lot of 'motivated sellers'.

Call me old-fashioned but I don't use FB, but do of course pay attention to the more regular known sites with classified ads. But as my Thai wife is a frequent FB-user(anyone know of a Thai lady who is'nt?), I let her dive in to the FB bike sites. Thanks for the suggestion mate

Check out this FB group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/bigbikemarket/

It's a closed group so your wife will need to send the request to join it.

Lots of bikes there of all sorts and I see some good deals on some newer bikes every once in a while.

Kudos to you mate, and homework for the wife

[BKKBike09]

Another bike I looked at quite long and hard before the FZ was the Suzy V-Strom 650. 350,000 CBU import, ABS, good looking (I think), comfy - much easier than an FZ for any longer trips. Not good if you're short though.

[bealus]

yes, there is probably a CB800 coming out really soon. Definitely November 2015 in Thailand.

in Brazil i heard stories of workers learning to assemble the CB800F, very similar to the previous hornet, upside down forks, same power, better rear suspension.

But the CB650 is a no brainer purchase for under 375K, you will have lots of money left for upgrades, good tires, ohlins suspension, and a full system.

I dont see anymore the Street-Triple for 420K, only the Speed-Triple-R at 460K.

The MT-07 might also be on your list, if you can wait a month or two. it has more torque than the CB650F up to 8000RPM. a really fun bike! should be priced between CB650 and Z800, a good spot in fact.

I heard rumours too that Honda was working on a new Hornet; so it will be named as CB 800. November 2015 is a bit late for me, but as others suggested too buying the CB 600 leaves about 100 k for mods and upgrades.

Did'nt think about the MT-07 but has encouraging reviews, so one more stop at a dealer can't hurt!

[bealus]

For me personally between CB650F and Z800 it would be the Honda. Z800 got more oomph (noticeable) but it's heavier, and for me the killer no ABS. The CB650F is plenty comfy (I did 800km in one go on it). I prefer the styling of the Z800 as it's aggressive but the CB is not ugly either.

If you ride a lot and for a bit longer or if you value ABS, there is a pretty clear winner. If you do short rides and want to be more of a hooligan, get the Z800.

If you have a bit more cash be sure to check out the Street Triple or MT-09 but their dealer networks are lacking.

Regarding the Monster: end of the year Ducati will bring the current Monster 821 to Thailand which is a big upgrade from the 796. But now you are in 450-500k THB territory.

At about the same price as the Z800 you can also get the new Scrambler if you like this kind of styling. Or are you set on a inline 4 engine?

What's your budget and what's your intended riding?

Well on the financial site the Z800 at about 375 K would be my limit and I guess I would use the bike 80% commuter wise and 20% longer distance trips. Other members also stated that the Honda is far more comfy to ride on longer distances and no I don't want to be the local biker hooligan. The CB 650 F has, as already mentioned, advantages over the Z800: considerable lower price and weight, ABS and more comfortable to ride on day or even week trips. If the Z800 only did'nt have that 100+ HP and class leading torque at relatively low revs. I'm not interested in topspeed and Thai road and traffic conditions make this obsolete anyway, but I admit I like a 0-60 sprint.....

with the low down torque of 650 honda, i am sure you never miss z800.

plus add a full system exhaust, an aftermarket air filer and a dynojet pc5 suddenly you have a 100 hp bike.

with 100 k you save, you can get these for 40 k, a set of pirellis and ohlins shock for 30 k and still you have money left for service for 50 k kmh and you have a bike better than z800 dynamically and nearly closer in performance.

Very tempting......

[eeeya]

For me personally between CB650F and Z800 it would be the Honda. Z800 got more oomph (noticeable) but it's heavier, and for me the killer no ABS. The CB650F is plenty comfy (I did 800km in one go on it). I prefer the styling of the Z800 as it's aggressive but the CB is not ugly either.

If you ride a lot and for a bit longer or if you value ABS, there is a pretty clear winner. If you do short rides and want to be more of a hooligan, get the Z800.

If you have a bit more cash be sure to check out the Street Triple or MT-09 but their dealer networks are lacking.

Regarding the Monster: end of the year Ducati will bring the current Monster 821 to Thailand which is a big upgrade from the 796. But now you are in 450-500k THB territory.

At about the same price as the Z800 you can also get the new Scrambler if you like this kind of styling. Or are you set on a inline 4 engine?

What's your budget and what's your intended riding?

Well on the financial site the Z800 at about 375 K would be my limit and I guess I would use the bike 80% commuter wise and 20% longer distance trips. Other members also stated that the Honda is far more comfy to ride on longer distances and no I don't want to be the local biker hooligan. The CB 650 F has, as already mentioned, advantages over the Z800: considerable lower price and weight, ABS and more comfortable to ride on day or even week trips. If the Z800 only did'nt have that 100+ HP and class leading torque at relatively low revs. I'm not interested in topspeed and Thai road and traffic conditions make this obsolete anyway, but I admit I like a 0-60 sprint.....

with the low down torque of 650 honda, i am sure you never miss z800.

plus add a full system exhaust, an aftermarket air filer and a dynojet pc5 suddenly you have a 100 hp bike.

with 100 k you save, you can get these for 40 k, a set of pirellis and ohlins shock for 30 k and still you have money left for service for 50 k kmh and you have a bike better than z800 dynamically and nearly closer in performance.

Genuine question here.. is 100hp attainable with those mods?

This thread is right up my alley as i'm in the dreaming stage for my next bike in around 10 - 12 months time.

[Shurup]

Google says:

z800

0-100 km/h - 3.09s

CB650F

0-100 km/h - 3.4s

So they're were close and for the money you would save, I'd go with Honda. Safer, lighter, cheaper.

[dave_boo]

For me personally between CB650F and Z800 it would be the Honda. Z800 got more oomph (noticeable) but it's heavier, and for me the killer no ABS. The CB650F is plenty comfy (I did 800km in one go on it). I prefer the styling of the Z800 as it's aggressive but the CB is not ugly either.

If you ride a lot and for a bit longer or if you value ABS, there is a pretty clear winner. If you do short rides and want to be more of a hooligan, get the Z800.

If you have a bit more cash be sure to check out the Street Triple or MT-09 but their dealer networks are lacking.

Regarding the Monster: end of the year Ducati will bring the current Monster 821 to Thailand which is a big upgrade from the 796. But now you are in 450-500k THB territory.

At about the same price as the Z800 you can also get the new Scrambler if you like this kind of styling. Or are you set on a inline 4 engine?

What's your budget and what's your intended riding?

Well on the financial site the Z800 at about 375 K would be my limit and I guess I would use the bike 80% commuter wise and 20% longer distance trips. Other members also stated that the Honda is far more comfy to ride on longer distances and no I don't want to be the local biker hooligan. The CB 650 F has, as already mentioned, advantages over the Z800: considerable lower price and weight, ABS and more comfortable to ride on day or even week trips. If the Z800 only did'nt have that 100+ HP and class leading torque at relatively low revs. I'm not interested in topspeed and Thai road and traffic conditions make this obsolete anyway, but I admit I like a 0-60 sprint.....

with the low down torque of 650 honda, i am sure you never miss z800.

plus add a full system exhaust, an aftermarket air filer and a dynojet pc5 suddenly you have a 100 hp bike.

with 100 k you save, you can get these for 40 k, a set of pirellis and ohlins shock for 30 k and still you have money left for service for 50 k kmh and you have a bike better than z800 dynamically and nearly closer in performance.

Genuine question here.. is 100hp attainable with those mods?

This thread is right up my alley as i'm in the dreaming stage for my next bike in around 10 - 12 months time.

I'd call bunk on that. Check below for the Two Brother's dyno. If ll2 seriously thinks that a different air cleaner and a PCIV will net an additional 19.2% power...well I want some of that Kool-Aid.

[dave_boo]

Google says:

z800

0-100 km/h - 3.09s

CB650F

0-100 km/h - 3.4s

So they're were close and for the money you would save, I'd go with Honda. Safer, lighter, cheaper.

And it has this on the tank!

[roo860]

Bought a 12 month old z800 last year in uk, traded in street triple r, found the z top heavy and overall weight bit much, was spoiled with the triple, they are awesome! Only kept the z for 2 weeks, ended up with a FZ8, am looking for a decent bike here, that Honda looks very promising.

[eeeya]

What's the pick between a Monster 796, ER6N and a CB650F?

Is there much performance difference between the three? There certainly is a price difference.

I'm amazed at the efficiency and cheap cost of AP Hondas service on my cb300f. I'm hoping that bigwing keeps the same

[Shurup]

What's the pick between a Monster 796, ER6N and a CB650F?

Is there much performance difference between the three? There certainly is a price difference.

I'm amazed at the efficiency and cheap cost of AP Hondas service on my cb300f. I'm hoping that bigwing keeps the same

I'm not sure if there's a reason now to get Kawasaki, unless you like the looks. Since Honda came out with their 650 inline 4, Kawasaki falls behind, Kawasaki's 650 is an old and inferior engine comparing to Honda.

And comparing Monster with Honda, it's really up to you and if you think it's worth what you get for the extra money. They're the same HP but Monster got quite a bit more torque (24% more), also Ducati gets it's max HP and torque at lower speeds.

http://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/honda/2014-honda-cb650f-ar163182.html

http://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/ducati/2014-ducati-monster-796-corse-stripe-ar161865.html

I didn't try Honda 650, but Monster got very nice power. You may or may not like it, its V2 feels quite different than inline engine. I had a bag of mixed feelings after the initial ride, but my Diavel feels somewhat the same and I like it. They're different and you just need to try both.

[eisfeld]

Also to consider is the lean angle, the Monster and Z800 are more forward oriented while the CB650F is completely upright.

And like Shurup said Monster vs CB650F is hard to compare. They are both nakeds but that's about it

Totally different riding experience that you should experience to see for yourself.

[eeeya]

What's a service cost on a CB650? Oil / filter. Tension chain etc

[dave_boo]

What's a service cost on a CB650? Oil / filter. Tension chain etc

Honda has some of your answers posted on their website:

[eeeya]

Awesome, thanks for that

[RubberSideDown]

From an acceleration standpoint, ~3.1sec vs 3.4sec to 60mph/100kph is a very significant (and obvious on the street) difference. I tried to find 1/4 mile times for the Z800, but couldn't locate the numbers. If winning the 'stoplight derby' interests you (and I've always found that being able to easily stay ahead of traffic is safer on the road), the Z800 is the better choice. I'm very biased toward horsepower, though...

[ll2]

Well on the financial site the Z800 at about 375 K would be my limit and I guess I would use the bike 80% commuter wise and 20% longer distance trips. Other members also stated that the Honda is far more comfy to ride on longer distances and no I don't want to be the local biker hooligan. The CB 650 F has, as already mentioned, advantages over the Z800: considerable lower price and weight, ABS and more comfortable to ride on day or even week trips. If the Z800 only did'nt have that 100+ HP and class leading torque at relatively low revs. I'm not interested in topspeed and Thai road and traffic conditions make this obsolete anyway, but I admit I like a 0-60 sprint.....

with the low down torque of 650 honda, i am sure you never miss z800.

plus add a full system exhaust, an aftermarket air filer and a dynojet pc5 suddenly you have a 100 hp bike.

with 100 k you save, you can get these for 40 k, a set of pirellis and ohlins shock for 30 k and still you have money left for service for 50 k kmh and you have a bike better than z800 dynamically and nearly closer in performance.

Genuine question here.. is 100hp attainable with those mods?

This thread is right up my alley as i'm in the dreaming stage for my next bike in around 10 - 12 months time.

I'd call bunk on that. Check below for the Two Brother's dyno. If ll2 seriously thinks that a different air cleaner and a PCIV will net an additional 19.2% power...well I want some of that Kool-Aid.

you got it wrong.

i was speaking in layman terms and crank hp just to clear it easier as kawa also stated as crank hp by OP.

hard to get 20 percent increase but 10 - 15 percent is doable.

So take 86 crack hp and add 15 percent increase and you have a close to 100 crank hp bike.

or lets say cb650f is making 79 rwhp from 86 crank hp and add both 15 percent and you reach a 90 rwhp bike or a 100 crank hp bike again.

[eisfeld]

I'd call bunk on that. Check below for the Two Brother's dyno. If ll2 seriously thinks that a different air cleaner and a PCIV will net an additional 19.2% power...well I want some of that Kool-Aid.

Genuine question here.. is 100hp attainable with those mods?

This thread is right up my alley as i'm in the dreaming stage for my next bike in around 10 - 12 months time.

you got it wrong.

i was speaking in layman terms and crank hp just to clear it easier as kawa also stated as crank hp by OP.

hard to get 20 percent increase but 10 - 15 percent is doable.

So take 86 crack hp and add 15 percent increase and you have a close to 100 crank hp bike.

or lets say cb650f is making 79 rwhp from 86 crank hp and add both 15 percent and you reach a 90 rwhp bike or a 100 crank hp bike again.

The gap gets closer if you factor in the weight difference. Also if you just want acceleration you can always do some sprocket mod.

[wowjudo]

i've never met any cb650f on the redlight but few cbr650f and always outran them by a good distance, ofc things get not so well over 150 km/h but naked bikes aren't made for high speed cruising anyways.

i've installed a quickshifter on my z800 and its a rocket now. still gonna sell it to my friend next month as i already ordered the 899.

my advice as soon ex-z800 owner is to get the cb650f and spend the money for new pirellis , quickshifter(optional but very recommend), a good exhaust and cosmetics

If the z800 would have ABS i'd never have given it up. If you can do hard braking with confidence and know how to not lock your front wheel then the z800 is a good choice

[BKKBike09]

There's a guy on Craigslist asking 385,000 for a 2012 Z1000 with a whole load of mods.

http://bangkok.craigslist.co.th/mcy/4876890398.html

There's also an FZ09 for 375,000 (has to be less than a year old since 1st Thai deliveries took place in May 2014).

http://bangkok.craigslist.co.th/mcy/4899501119.html

[Beardog]

The 800 is definitely faster than my Er6n but it is a bit to heavy . The 1000 is a better option & only 20 more kilos dry weight than the 800. I would like it more if they used the same frame materials on the 800 to lighten it up to what the weight really should be. The 650 Honda looks really nice. I haven't tried it yet. But what I would really like to do is send one of my 1000cc or 1100 cc engines up from the states & mount it in (with frame reinforcments) that way I would have the nimbleness of the 650 & lots of extra power. However that with the funky laws up here is never gonna happen!

[bealus]

As announced, today visited Honda Big Wing in BKK, and was astonished about how many people were at that place at that time (11.00 AM); there was a constant queue at the cashier's. Really difficult to find a salesman or technician that understood(let alone speak)some English language. But I managed to "test-drive" both the CBR 650 F and the CB 650 F, alas only on the parking-lot. So the testing was limited to an occasional third gear but mostly done in second gear due to extensive use of the parking-lot.
While the handlebars on the CBR were(quite expectedly) too low for me, the riding comfort on the naked CB 650 F was just fine and I imagine you could drive comfortably long distances on it.

As it may well be just a subjective impression, I felt from the acceleration that indeed just like @wowjudo stated, the Z800 had more oomph. In contrast the Honda definitely was more agile and easy to handle, probably as it has less weight.
So I call it parr for the moment and based on the advice of some members, start looking for used bikes as the Z1000 or the Yamaha MT-09.
Thanks to all fellow bikers for sharing their opinion and giving advice or extra information on this matter
Honda Big Wing had just in a special edition from the CB 650 F with many modifications and a somewhat encrypted name as the H2C, starting 300 k up.

Sharing two pictures from that modded bike:

Edited February 24, 2015 by bealus

[ll2]

nice!

still i say cb650f. it looks better too. believe me, the sharp alien design of kawa z800 will age fast and 1 - 2 years later, it will look old and boring

cb650f will stay fresh long time as it has a mature and handsome design - although reminds me a donkey at some angles:)

[macknife]

So track day boys, which of these two bikes handles the track better and sets the faster times? I'm interested to know if the more sporty 650 beats the naked Z800.

[eeeya]

looking at a z1000 on the street the other day.. hows the massive fuel tank hump. Beast