Loss from Yingluck's rice pledging scheme jumps higher after latest update

[Evolare]

700 billion...700.000.000.000!

And her punishment if found guilty....5 years in prison? Insane

[JAG]

Let's hope those responsible get stripped of all their worldly goods to repay some of the immense loss. That includes the ricemill and warehouse owners as well as the civil servants that contributed their part in the stealing and the top rats like Yingluck.

The missunderstood fugitive in Dubai seems to be out of range so far. But I do hope the government will try hard to bring him home. Then see how much he can cough up. He must be tha main benefactor of the theft.

The tosser in Dubai is not out of range

People in power are too scared / stupid / useless to ask for help

Interpol arrest warrant would be a nice place to start

Boggles the mind why one has never been issued

Its never been issued because it would be pointless.

I know that you and many others here loathe and detest him, but it is a simple fact that if an arrest warrant were to be issued it would be regarded as a political move by a military junta which has replaced an elected government, replaced an elected parliament with an appointed legislative council and has curtailed many freedoms, including those of the press and freedom of assembly. The same was true of the government installed by the last coup i 2006 (?). The only government since the military ousted Thaksin which might have been able to get any success with Interpol (apart from the elected "Thaksin proxy" governments, who were obviously not going to do so), was Abhisits administration. Their legitimacy in international circles rather ended when they cut the army loose on the Redshirt demonstrators in Bangkok.

If the present administration attempted to issue any sort of warrant for any political figure it would be laughed at, because they are a junta which came to power through a military coup.

so are you saying that hes a good guy then..amazing..your probably one of those who think mother theresa was a good woman..

No, I didn't say that, whether or not I believe that is irrelevant to the thrust of my post. If you were to read it in conjunction with the post to which it replies you would see that .

I'm not sure how Mother Theresa comes into it, but if you really want to know, yes, I do think that she was a good woman. In fact as a Catholic I expect that in due course she will become a Saint.

Edited February 25, 2015 by JAG

[waitforusalso]

As with the polls, only statistics that favour the junta will be allowed.

In absolutely no circumstances may anyone claim that there is a large multiplier effect of increasing the disposable income of the rural poor.

Or that many other countries have introduced what were intended to be self-financing schemes only to be badly burnt by volatile commodity prices.

[Robby nz]

There was alot of Vietnamese rice being sold in the markets that had been rebagged .... Product of Thailand.

The rich families in Bangkok were buying Viet rice for about 8,000 baht/tonne and cashing in here with the Gov for 15000 b/tonne.

The money will never be recovered because alot people involved in the rice scam are lawmakers.

Presumably you have a rice DNA tester with you when you buy rice to be so sure it is from Vietnam.

If you have proof of what you write about these rich BKK families then I suggest you get to the NACC promptly, they will be keen to know.

So it is not possible to get any restitution out of lawmakers, interesting. When you write lawmakers I presume you mean members parliament.

The rice merchants were saying there was alot of Viet rice coming into the system . It makes sense. Buy rice for far around 8 k and sell it for 15K.

The quality of rice definitely dropped during Yinglucks term of office. I'm no expert but i do eat alot of it. I can tell the difference just like anyone else.

lawmakers,officials etc this country is totally corrupt. Any country that heavily relies on prostitution for tourism cant be trusted. I only stay here because its reasonably easy to export.

There was for sure rice coming into the country from Cambodia and over the Mekong and some of it no doubt came from Vietnam, that was documented, and photographed.

However you wrote that it was the rich BKK families that were doing this, any proof ?

The quality did drop partly because of imported rice but the quantities were small in comparison.

The main reason for quality drop was that farmers grew lower quality quick maturing rice that they could sell into the scheme for the same price.

There should have been some quality standards incorporated in order to attempt to raise the quality of rice produced.

There was also rice still in storage from the Thaksin pledging scheme and some of that would have been sold off to make way for the new seasons rice when they were running out of warehouse space.

You may recall that the US returned a shipment due to poor quality and the Ivory Coast and to dump around 25% of a shipment for the same reason so local markets were not the only ones that suffered a quality drop.

I agree about the corruption although this is slowly being addressed, not an easy job but to say the country relies on prostitution for tourism is way off the mark.

It must be a very small proportion of tourists who are single males coming here for girls.

[Gunna]

There was alot of Vietnamese rice being sold in the markets that had been rebagged .... Product of Thailand.

The rich families in Bangkok were buying Viet rice for about 8,000 baht/tonne and cashing in here with the Gov for 15000 b/tonne.

The money will never be recovered because alot people involved in the rice scam are lawmakers.

Were they driving their Mercs to Saigon, filling the boot up and driving back.

The cost of fuel alone doesn't justify do that.

I know there are cheap Air Asia flights to Vietnam but excess luggage fees for bags of rice is expensive

I am sorry but what you are saying is BS.

I suspect it comes from the fact most Thais complete ignorance of Geography and don't realise how far it is to Vietnams rice growing areas and there are 2 borders to cross

Rice from Cambodian, Laos and Myanmar was smuggled across the rivers/border by local farmers to make a quick profit.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Gunna

[TheDiva]

There was alot of Vietnamese rice being sold in the markets that had been rebagged .... Product of Thailand.

The rich families in Bangkok were buying Viet rice for about 8,000 baht/tonne and cashing in here with the Gov for 15000 b/tonne.

The money will never be recovered because alot people involved in the rice scam are lawmakers.

Were they driving their Mercs to Saigon, filling the boot up and driving back.

The cost of fuel alone doesn't justify do that.

I know there are cheap Air Asia flights to Vietnam but excess luggage fees for bags of rice is expensive

I am sorry but what you are saying is BS.

I suspect it comes from the fact most Thais complete ignorance of Geography and don't realise how far it is to Vietnams rice growing areas and there are 2 borders to cross

Rice from Cambodian, Laos and Myanmar was smuggled across the rivers/border by local farmers to make a quick profit.

Under orders from Yingluck, no doubt?

Anyway you've already "proved" that there's "a lot of money" involved in your previous post, even down to telling us where most of it is, so who could doubt you?

[Thai at Heart]

Yingluck government alone accounted for 537 billion, or 19 billion baht higher from last estimate, he said.

And so why are they chasing a higher amount in a court case?

These idiots still don't get it. It was not lost. It was borrowed and paid into the economy. It has been banked into the GDP figures from previous years. It isn't an absolute loss because it will have generated activity and thus money turns in the economy to give taxes back.

But alas, velocity of money discussion is for reasoned discussion not Thai politics.

[Thai at Heart]

There was alot of Vietnamese rice being sold in the markets that had been rebagged .... Product of Thailand.

The rich families in Bangkok were buying Viet rice for about 8,000 baht/tonne and cashing in here with the Gov for 15000 b/tonne.

The money will never be recovered because alot people involved in the rice scam are lawmakers.

Presumably you have a rice DNA tester with you when you buy rice to be so sure it is from Vietnam.

If you have proof of what you write about these rich BKK families then I suggest you get to the NACC promptly, they will be keen to know.

So it is not possible to get any restitution out of lawmakers, interesting. When you write lawmakers I presume you mean members parliament.

The rice merchants were saying there was alot of Viet rice coming into the system . It makes sense. Buy rice for far around 8 k and sell it for 15K.

The quality of rice definitely dropped during Yinglucks term of office. I'm no expert but i do eat alot of it. I can tell the difference just like anyone else.

lawmakers,officials etc this country is totally corrupt. Any country that heavily relies on prostitution for tourism cant be trusted. I only stay here because its reasonably easy to export.

There was for sure rice coming into the country from Cambodia and over the Mekong and some of it no doubt came from Vietnam, that was documented, and photographed.

However you wrote that it was the rich BKK families that were doing this, any proof ?

The quality did drop partly because of imported rice but the quantities were small in comparison.

The main reason for quality drop was that farmers grew lower quality quick maturing rice that they could sell into the scheme for the same price.

There should have been some quality standards incorporated in order to attempt to raise the quality of rice produced.

There was also rice still in storage from the Thaksin pledging scheme and some of that would have been sold off to make way for the new seasons rice when they were running out of warehouse space.

You may recall that the US returned a shipment due to poor quality and the Ivory Coast and to dump around 25% of a shipment for the same reason so local markets were not the only ones that suffered a quality drop.

I agree about the corruption although this is slowly being addressed, not an easy job but to say the country relies on prostitution for tourism is way off the mark.

It must be a very small proportion of tourists who are single males coming here for girls.

And who got paid. Thais, with Thai baht in Thailand. It is not an absolute total sum game loss.

[halloween]

Yingluck government alone accounted for 537 billion, or 19 billion baht higher from last estimate, he said.

And so why are they chasing a higher amount in a court case?

These idiots still don't get it. It was not lost. It was borrowed and paid into the economy. It has been banked into the GDP figures from previous years. It isn't an absolute loss because it will have generated activity and thus money turns in the economy to give taxes back.

But alas, velocity of money discussion is for reasoned discussion not Thai politics.

if they wanted a stimulus package and said "we'll hand out B700 billion to our rich mates" they would have been thrown out of office. Instead they lied, and said "we'll give it to the poorest farmers" to get into office.

Other countries have stimulus packages where they build things, like dams, hospitals, schools. Remember the New Deal? After spending B700 billion what has Thailand got to show for it? Warehouses full of rotting rice, and proven corrupt government ministers. Makes you feel proud, doesn't it.

[halloween]

And who got paid. Thais, with Thai baht in Thailand. It is not an absolute total sum game loss.

Can you prove the bulk of it didn't end up in off-shore foreign currency accounts?

[Thai at Heart]

Yingluck government alone accounted for 537 billion, or 19 billion baht higher from last estimate, he said.

And so why are they chasing a higher amount in a court case?

These idiots still don't get it. It was not lost. It was borrowed and paid into the economy. It has been banked into the GDP figures from previous years. It isn't an absolute loss because it will have generated activity and thus money turns in the economy to give taxes back.

But alas, velocity of money discussion is for reasoned discussion not Thai politics.

if they wanted a stimulus package and said "we'll hand out B700 billion to our rich mates" they would have been thrown out of office. Instead they lied, and said "we'll give it to the poorest farmers" to get into office.

Other countries have stimulus packages where they build things, like dams, hospitals, schools. Remember the New Deal? After spending B700 billion what has Thailand got to show for it? Warehouses full of rotting rice, and proven corrupt government ministers. Makes you feel proud, doesn't it.

They paid 15000 per tonne to lots of very poor people in the coubtryside. Some got less but it was still a lot more than the previous price, and the rice is slowly rotting away.

It didn't all end up in the wealthy hands , the vast majority ended up in the countryside. If they had announced 30k pee farmer to halve their production it would have been the optimal result.

Proud of what? It fed a lot of genuinely poor people. Why would I care to be proud or not of a silly messed up agriculture policy in a 2nd world country.

Go live in an is a an village for a week and tell me if you would care which party gave u a subsidy....

[Gunna]

But the main question still hovers around.... WHO got and where did the billions go... Name and shame them...

Most of the money has gone from buying 80 million tons of rice for up to 15,000bt per ton and sell it for 5-7,000bt per ton

A lot of money has already gone in storage, fumigation, milling, drying and transport fees

A lot of money has gone already to Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar as rice was smuggled from there and sold in Thailand as Thai rice.

A lot of money has gone already because rice rotted and cannot be sold

A lot of money has gone already because rice was eaten by rats, birds, weevils etc.

A lot of money has gone on rice that was stolen or claimed to be stolen from warehouses

A lot of money has gone already on rice stored in several warehouses that mysteriously caught fire

A lot of money has gone already because rice detoriated with so many years in storage that nobody wants to buy it

A lot of money was paid for rice that never existed - some that money may be able to be retrieved from corrupt Rice Millers, but I suspect much of it is now safely in offshore banks, including a lot in Dubai

If one reads the OP, you will notice that the costs/losses ( almost 700 billion Baht ) are from 15 rice subsidy and rice pledging schemes from 2004 through 2014, and while the majority of those costs/losses may be attributable to the most recent rice pledging scheme, there is much more to this story than is presently being discussed. ...... and we must remember that all of the numbers are "estimates" from the current military "democracy"

More lies and distortions, same as the Minister of White Lies.

The major loss is 537B bt from TS & YL's Rice Scam and the figures are from the Ministry of Finance ( not the Junta ) who have been tracking this scam since it's ill conceived conception.

Some workers from the Ministry who released warnings about it's corruption and mounting costs were removed from their positions.

[webfact]

Rice pledging scheme costs 700 billion baht in damages

BANGKOK, 26 February 2015, (NNT) - A preliminary report has disclosed that the subsidy program cost the Kingdom 700 billion baht since its inception nine years ago. The report by the sub-committee on closing the account of the rice pledging scheme also suggested that a majority of the losses, or 536 billion baht, were incurred under the Yingluck Shinawatra administration.

Permanent-Secretary of Finance and President of the Subcommittee Rangsan Sriworasat indicated that the remaining 163 billion baht was lost through 11 other rice pledging projects under the Abhisit Vejjajiva administration.

Mr. Rangsan commented that losses at the end of fiscal 2014 in September were rather small- an increase of 18 billion baht- compared to the one calculated at the end of May 2014. He explained that the higher price of grains at the end of September helped cushion the expense.

However, the Permanent-Secretary said there are significant differences between the reports of rice sales produced by the Department of Foreign Trade, the Department of Internal Trade, the Public Warehouse Organization, and Marketing Organization for Farmers.

He said these reports will be reviewed within the week. Mr. Rangsan added that once the figures are confirmed, a comprehensive report on the matter will be produced and forwarded to the Ministry of Commerce and the Prime Minister.


-- NNT 2015-02-26

[Thai at Heart]

Rice pledging scheme costs 700 billion baht in damages

BANGKOK, 26 February 2015, (NNT) - A preliminary report has disclosed that the subsidy program cost the Kingdom 700 billion baht since its inception nine years ago. The report by the sub-committee on closing the account of the rice pledging scheme also suggested that a majority of the losses, or 536 billion baht, were incurred under the Yingluck Shinawatra administration.

Permanent-Secretary of Finance and President of the Subcommittee Rangsan Sriworasat indicated that the remaining 163 billion baht was lost through 11 other rice pledging projects under the Abhisit Vejjajiva administration.

Mr. Rangsan commented that losses at the end of fiscal 2014 in September were rather small- an increase of 18 billion baht- compared to the one calculated at the end of May 2014. He explained that the higher price of grains at the end of September helped cushion the expense.

However, the Permanent-Secretary said there are significant differences between the reports of rice sales produced by the Department of Foreign Trade, the Department of Internal Trade, the Public Warehouse Organization, and Marketing Organization for Farmers.

He said these reports will be reviewed within the week. Mr. Rangsan added that once the figures are confirmed, a comprehensive report on the matter will be produced and forwarded to the Ministry of Commerce and the Prime Minister.

-- NNT 2015-02-26

Well now this is a corker.

Why is Yingluck impeached for her loss, while Abhisit isn't? In legal terms the issue is financially the same. Why is his loss a better loss than his?

[Mango Bob]

So is Mr Abhisit going to be sued by the Finance Ministry also for his 163 billion baht lost? We know the answer all ready it is written in Red blood in 2010.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Mango Bob

[Robby nz]

Rice pledging scheme costs 700 billion baht in damages

BANGKOK, 26 February 2015, (NNT) - A preliminary report has disclosed that the subsidy program cost the Kingdom 700 billion baht since its inception nine years ago. The report by the sub-committee on closing the account of the rice pledging scheme also suggested that a majority of the losses, or 536 billion baht, were incurred under the Yingluck Shinawatra administration.

Permanent-Secretary of Finance and President of the Subcommittee Rangsan Sriworasat indicated that the remaining 163 billion baht was lost through 11 other rice pledging projects under the Abhisit Vejjajiva administration.

Mr. Rangsan commented that losses at the end of fiscal 2014 in September were rather small- an increase of 18 billion baht- compared to the one calculated at the end of May 2014. He explained that the higher price of grains at the end of September helped cushion the expense.

However, the Permanent-Secretary said there are significant differences between the reports of rice sales produced by the Department of Foreign Trade, the Department of Internal Trade, the Public Warehouse Organization, and Marketing Organization for Farmers.

He said these reports will be reviewed within the week. Mr. Rangsan added that once the figures are confirmed, a comprehensive report on the matter will be produced and forwarded to the Ministry of Commerce and the Prime Minister.

-- NNT 2015-02-26

Someone has substituted a name there, the 163 billion was lost under Thaksins rice pledging scheme :

Chart is from the finance ministry.

You should note that Thaksin lost 164 billion over 11 crops while Yingluck managed to lose 518 billion over only 4 crops.

You should note that these losses do not include what was in storage at the time of the report or the subsequent losses.

[Thai at Heart]

Rice pledging scheme costs 700 billion baht in damages

BANGKOK, 26 February 2015, (NNT) - A preliminary report has disclosed that the subsidy program cost the Kingdom 700 billion baht since its inception nine years ago. The report by the sub-committee on closing the account of the rice pledging scheme also suggested that a majority of the losses, or 536 billion baht, were incurred under the Yingluck Shinawatra administration.

Permanent-Secretary of Finance and President of the Subcommittee Rangsan Sriworasat indicated that the remaining 163 billion baht was lost through 11 other rice pledging projects under the Abhisit Vejjajiva administration.

Mr. Rangsan commented that losses at the end of fiscal 2014 in September were rather small- an increase of 18 billion baht- compared to the one calculated at the end of May 2014. He explained that the higher price of grains at the end of September helped cushion the expense.

However, the Permanent-Secretary said there are significant differences between the reports of rice sales produced by the Department of Foreign Trade, the Department of Internal Trade, the Public Warehouse Organization, and Marketing Organization for Farmers.

He said these reports will be reviewed within the week. Mr. Rangsan added that once the figures are confirmed, a comprehensive report on the matter will be produced and forwarded to the Ministry of Commerce and the Prime Minister.

-- NNT 2015-02-26

Someone has substituted a name there, the 163 billion was lost under Thaksins rice pledging scheme :

rice.jpg

Chart is from the finance ministry.

You should note that Thaksin lost 164 billion over 11 crops while Yingluck managed to lose 518 billion over only 4 crops.

You should note that these losses do not include what was in storage at the time of the report or the subsequent losses.

The size of the loss isn't the issue. Yingluck has been impeached for a specific type of loss. Abhisits was structured differently but nonetheless made a loss.

This type of legal incongruity is ridiculous

[Robby nz]

Rice pledging scheme costs 700 billion baht in damages

BANGKOK, 26 February 2015, (NNT) - A preliminary report has disclosed that the subsidy program cost the Kingdom 700 billion baht since its inception nine years ago. The report by the sub-committee on closing the account of the rice pledging scheme also suggested that a majority of the losses, or 536 billion baht, were incurred under the Yingluck Shinawatra administration.

Permanent-Secretary of Finance and President of the Subcommittee Rangsan Sriworasat indicated that the remaining 163 billion baht was lost through 11 other rice pledging projects under the Abhisit Vejjajiva administration.

Mr. Rangsan commented that losses at the end of fiscal 2014 in September were rather small- an increase of 18 billion baht- compared to the one calculated at the end of May 2014. He explained that the higher price of grains at the end of September helped cushion the expense.

However, the Permanent-Secretary said there are significant differences between the reports of rice sales produced by the Department of Foreign Trade, the Department of Internal Trade, the Public Warehouse Organization, and Marketing Organization for Farmers.

He said these reports will be reviewed within the week. Mr. Rangsan added that once the figures are confirmed, a comprehensive report on the matter will be produced and forwarded to the Ministry of Commerce and the Prime Minister.

-- NNT 2015-02-26

Someone has substituted a name there, the 163 billion was lost under Thaksins rice pledging scheme :

rice.jpg

Chart is from the finance ministry.

You should note that Thaksin lost 164 billion over 11 crops while Yingluck managed to lose 518 billion over only 4 crops.

You should note that these losses do not include what was in storage at the time of the report or the subsequent losses.

The size of the loss isn't the issue. Yingluck has been impeached for a specific type of loss. Abhisits was structured differently but nonetheless made a loss.

This type of legal incongruity is ridiculous

Get over it T a H we have been through all this before and you know better.

No it is not, Abhisits insurance scheme was a subsidy allowed for in the budget, therefore it was a budget item and not a loss any more than any other budget item is a loss.

Or perhaps you want to tell us that the health budget is a loss.

[ddavidovsky]

All figures relating to this issue are worthless unless audited by bodies without political affiliation, and that isn't going to happen.

In any case, as has been pointed out above, the money wasn't 'lost' but was ploughed back into the economy, surely doing a great deal to redistrubute wealth and reduce inequality - just what Thailand needs because without a degree of equality there will never be true stability. The YL government was apparently overzealous in this to the point of incompetence, but that's a matter for the population to judge on in the next election rather than a political witchhunt.

[ttthailand]

519 billion and increasing.... That's about 8,000 Baht for every Thai person. Considering that's only one item (rice) being looked at that is a lot of money. I wonder what other scams were in the works prior to the bottom falling out ?

[mike324]

Yingluck government alone accounted for 537 billion, or 19 billion baht higher from last estimate, he said.

And so why are they chasing a higher amount in a court case?

These idiots still don't get it. It was not lost. It was borrowed and paid into the economy. It has been banked into the GDP figures from previous years. It isn't an absolute loss because it will have generated activity and thus money turns in the economy to give taxes back.

But alas, velocity of money discussion is for reasoned discussion not Thai politics.

if they wanted a stimulus package and said "we'll hand out B700 billion to our rich mates" they would have been thrown out of office. Instead they lied, and said "we'll give it to the poorest farmers" to get into office.

Other countries have stimulus packages where they build things, like dams, hospitals, schools. Remember the New Deal? After spending B700 billion what has Thailand got to show for it? Warehouses full of rotting rice, and proven corrupt government ministers. Makes you feel proud, doesn't it.

They paid 15000 per tonne to lots of very poor people in the coubtryside. Some got less but it was still a lot more than the previous price, and the rice is slowly rotting away.

It didn't all end up in the wealthy hands , the vast majority ended up in the countryside. If they had announced 30k pee farmer to halve their production it would have been the optimal result.

Proud of what? It fed a lot of genuinely poor people. Why would I care to be proud or not of a silly messed up agriculture policy in a 2nd world country.

Go live in an is a an village for a week and tell me if you would care which party gave u a subsidy....

Govt purchased around 84 million tons according to this article. Multiply that by 1000 to 4000 baht difference per ton that millers pay the farmers and tell me that it does not make some wealthy folks (such as millers and politicians) very very rich. Yes we know farmers have a hard life, that does not mean the government should continue with such policy that was proven to be a total failure and full of corruption.

[timewilltell]

All figures relating to this issue are worthless unless audited by bodies without political affiliation, and that isn't going to happen.

In any case, as has been pointed out above, the money wasn't 'lost' but was ploughed back into the economy, surely doing a great deal to redistrubute wealth and reduce inequality - just what Thailand needs because without a degree of equality there will never be true stability. The YL government was apparently overzealous in this to the point of incompetence, but that's a matter for the population to judge on in the next election rather than a political witchhunt.

Unfortunately the poor farmers did not end up with much of the money since the land owners from who they rent the paddy fields from upped the rent seeing they could pay more.

The fertilizer sellers upped the price of fertilizer for the same reason.

The middlemen upped their price for the same reason and kept most of the price uplift with the millers keeping most of the rest.

The warehousemen friends of Thaksin made a killing from renting sub-standard ill equipped warehouses to store the rice from which a lot of what was stored was stolen anyway so the government ended up paying for scaffolding hidden in the rice silo. They also imported / exported to Cambodia in a little merry go round of trucks to bump up the profits from low grade Cambodian rice evilly masquerading as premium Thai rice.

So it is just really stupid to pass this corruption scheme off as some benefit to Thailand. In fact it is a typically Thai idea to hide the facts by twisting them 180 degrees to make black into white. Perhaps you have just become Thai brainwashed and cannot longer see the wood for the mirrors not smoke for the trees!

[luk AJ]

Did Gen. Prayut not subsidise the rubber prices recently? Did he not claim the rubber would be used for sport fields? How does this differenciate from the rice scheme?

[Robby nz]

All figures relating to this issue are worthless unless audited by bodies without political affiliation, and that isn't going to happen.

In any case, as has been pointed out above, the money wasn't 'lost' but was ploughed back into the economy, surely doing a great deal to redistrubute wealth and reduce inequality - just what Thailand needs because without a degree of equality there will never be true stability. The YL government was apparently overzealous in this to the point of incompetence, but that's a matter for the population to judge on in the next election rather than a political witchhunt.

You just don't get it do you ?

The numbers came from Yinglucks own ministry of finance which did a AUDIT of the scheme.

And who said the money was all plowed back into the economy ?

Oh yes Yingluck in her defense.

If the money went back into the economy then tell us why the farmers in particular and the general population as well as the country are deeper in debt than ever before.

No it is not a matter for the population to judge it is a matter for the law to judge, if she has broken the law, as is being claimed she has to answer to the law not the people as any other citizen would.

No it is not a witch hunt it is getting to the bottom of irregularities, alleged corruption and criminal acts within the scheme.

Would you really prefer that corruption went uninvestigated and the corrupt were allowed to keep their ill gotten gains ?

[hanuman2543]

Yingluck government alone accounted for 537 billion, or 19 billion baht higher from last estimate, he said.

And so why are they chasing a higher amount in a court case?

These idiots still don't get it. It was not lost. It was borrowed and paid into the economy. It has been banked into the GDP figures from previous years. It isn't an absolute loss because it will have generated activity and thus money turns in the economy to give taxes back.

But alas, velocity of money discussion is for reasoned discussion not Thai politics.

if they wanted a stimulus package and said "we'll hand out B700 billion to our rich mates" they would have been thrown out of office. Instead they lied, and said "we'll give it to the poorest farmers" to get into office.

Other countries have stimulus packages where they build things, like dams, hospitals, schools. Remember the New Deal? After spending B700 billion what has Thailand got to show for it? Warehouses full of rotting rice, and proven corrupt government ministers. Makes you feel proud, doesn't it.

They paid 15000 per tonne to lots of very poor people in the coubtryside. Some got less but it was still a lot more than the previous price, and the rice is slowly rotting away.

It didn't all end up in the wealthy hands , the vast majority ended up in the countryside. If they had announced 30k pee farmer to halve their production it would have been the optimal result.

Proud of what? It fed a lot of genuinely poor people. Why would I care to be proud or not of a silly messed up agriculture policy in a 2nd world country.

Go live in an is a an village for a week and tell me if you would care which party gave u a subsidy....

It was proven by a university or the Thai Rice Institute that about 80% of the money went to rich and well off farmers. Only 20% went to the real poor farmers and many more were left out and didn't profit at all because of the rules they couldn't take part. And most of the "extra income" was sucked up by increased rents for farmland and increased prices for fertilizer etc. Edited February 26, 2015 by hanuman2543

[Robby nz]

Yingluck government alone accounted for 537 billion, or 19 billion baht higher from last estimate, he said.

And so why are they chasing a higher amount in a court case?

These idiots still don't get it. It was not lost. It was borrowed and paid into the economy. It has been banked into the GDP figures from previous years. It isn't an absolute loss because it will have generated activity and thus money turns in the economy to give taxes back.

But alas, velocity of money discussion is for reasoned discussion not Thai politics.

if they wanted a stimulus package and said "we'll hand out B700 billion to our rich mates" they would have been thrown out of office. Instead they lied, and said "we'll give it to the poorest farmers" to get into office.

Other countries have stimulus packages where they build things, like dams, hospitals, schools. Remember the New Deal? After spending B700 billion what has Thailand got to show for it? Warehouses full of rotting rice, and proven corrupt government ministers. Makes you feel proud, doesn't it.

They paid 15000 per tonne to lots of very poor people in the coubtryside. Some got less but it was still a lot more than the previous price, and the rice is slowly rotting away.

It didn't all end up in the wealthy hands , the vast majority ended up in the countryside. If they had announced 30k pee farmer to halve their production it would have been the optimal result.

Proud of what? It fed a lot of genuinely poor people. Why would I care to be proud or not of a silly messed up agriculture policy in a 2nd world country.

Go live in an is a an village for a week and tell me if you would care which party gave u a subsidy....

It was proven by a university or the Thai Rice Institute that about 80% of the money went to rich and well off farmers. Only 20% went to the real poor farmers and many more were left out and didn't profit at all because of the rules they couldn't take part. And most of the "extra income" was sucked up by increased rents for farmland and increased prices for fertilizer etc.

Unfortunately for the poor farmers your figures are quite a bit optimistic :

According to a study by the World Bank, only 18% of poor farmers profited from the

subsidised prices as small producers are unable to produce large surpluses on their relatively

small planting areas. In accordance with another study by the TDRI, only 5% of the

programme's revenues reached poor farmers.

The last sentence is correct.

[rubl]

But the main question still hovers around.... WHO got and where did the billions go... Name and shame them...

Most of the money has gone from buying 80 million tons of rice for up to 15,000bt per ton and sell it for 5-7,000bt per ton

A lot of money has already gone in storage, fumigation, milling, drying and transport fees

A lot of money has gone already to Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar as rice was smuggled from there and sold in Thailand as Thai rice.

A lot of money has gone already because rice rotted and cannot be sold

A lot of money has gone already because rice was eaten by rats, birds, weevils etc.

A lot of money has gone on rice that was stolen or claimed to be stolen from warehouses

A lot of money has gone already on rice stored in several warehouses that mysteriously caught fire

A lot of money has gone already because rice detoriated with so many years in storage that nobody wants to buy it

A lot of money was paid for rice that never existed - some that money may be able to be retrieved from corrupt Rice Millers, but I suspect much of it is now safely in offshore banks, including a lot in Dubai

If one reads the OP, you will notice that the costs/losses ( almost 700 billion Baht ) are from 15 rice subsidy and rice pledging schemes from 2004 through 2014, and while the majority of those costs/losses may be attributable to the most recent rice pledging scheme, there is much more to this story than is presently being discussed. ...... and we must remember that all of the numbers are "estimates" from the current military "democracy"

Absolutely.

2014-09-17

"Luck estimated the government still owed BAAC about 750 billion baht in debt related to the scheme.

"The government plans to set aside money from the central budget and the money it gets from selling rice stocks to repay the bank, but it could take around seven years for the government to pay it all back," he said.

The 750 billion baht was the money the government had borrowed from the bank to buy rice from farmers at 15,000 baht per tonne, about 60 percent above market rates, from October 2011 to February 2014."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/17/us-thailand-rice-debt-idUSKBN0HC10Q20140917

[rubl]

if they wanted a stimulus package and said "we'll hand out B700 billion to our rich mates" they would have been thrown out of office. Instead they lied, and said "we'll give it to the poorest farmers" to get into office.

Other countries have stimulus packages where they build things, like dams, hospitals, schools. Remember the New Deal? After spending B700 billion what has Thailand got to show for it? Warehouses full of rotting rice, and proven corrupt government ministers. Makes you feel proud, doesn't it.

They paid 15000 per tonne to lots of very poor people in the coubtryside. Some got less but it was still a lot more than the previous price, and the rice is slowly rotting away.

It didn't all end up in the wealthy hands , the vast majority ended up in the countryside. If they had announced 30k pee farmer to halve their production it would have been the optimal result.

Proud of what? It fed a lot of genuinely poor people. Why would I care to be proud or not of a silly messed up agriculture policy in a 2nd world country.

Go live in an is a an village for a week and tell me if you would care which party gave u a subsidy....

It was proven by a university or the Thai Rice Institute that about 80% of the money went to rich and well off farmers. Only 20% went to the real poor farmers and many more were left out and didn't profit at all because of the rules they couldn't take part. And most of the "extra income" was sucked up by increased rents for farmland and increased prices for fertilizer etc.

Unfortunately for the poor farmers your figures are quite a bit optimistic :

According to a study by the World Bank, only 18% of poor farmers profited from the

subsidised prices as small producers are unable to produce large surpluses on their relatively

small planting areas. In accordance with another study by the TDRI, only 5% of the

programme's revenues reached poor farmers.

The last sentence is correct.

Ms. Yingluck wasn't really specific when she stated

2013-06-19

PM Yingluck: Rice pledge scheme a boon to economy, farmers

“It is a losing scheme in terms of accounting but, in reality, farmers take the benefit. It’s in accord with the government’s policy,” she said.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/647625-pm-yingluck-rice-pledge-scheme-a-boon-to-economy-farmers/

[rubl]

There was for sure rice coming into the country from Cambodia and over the Mekong and some of it no doubt came from Vietnam, that was documented, and photographed.

However you wrote that it was the rich BKK families that were doing this, any proof ?

The quality did drop partly because of imported rice but the quantities were small in comparison.

The main reason for quality drop was that farmers grew lower quality quick maturing rice that they could sell into the scheme for the same price.

There should have been some quality standards incorporated in order to attempt to raise the quality of rice produced.

There was also rice still in storage from the Thaksin pledging scheme and some of that would have been sold off to make way for the new seasons rice when they were running out of warehouse space.

You may recall that the US returned a shipment due to poor quality and the Ivory Coast and to dump around 25% of a shipment for the same reason so local markets were not the only ones that suffered a quality drop.

I agree about the corruption although this is slowly being addressed, not an easy job but to say the country relies on prostitution for tourism is way off the mark.

It must be a very small proportion of tourists who are single males coming here for girls.

And who got paid. Thais, with Thai baht in Thailand. It is not an absolute total sum game loss.

2013-06-19

PM Yingluck: Rice pledge scheme a boon to economy, farmers

“It is a losing scheme in terms of accounting but, in reality, farmers take the benefit. It’s in accord with the government’s policy,” she said.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/647625-pm-yingluck-rice-pledge-scheme-a-boon-to-economy-farmers/

[rubl]

Yingluck government alone accounted for 537 billion, or 19 billion baht higher from last estimate, he said.

And so why are they chasing a higher amount in a court case?

These idiots still don't get it. It was not lost. It was borrowed and paid into the economy. It has been banked into the GDP figures from previous years. It isn't an absolute loss because it will have generated activity and thus money turns in the economy to give taxes back.

But alas, velocity of money discussion is for reasoned discussion not Thai politics.

Tell that to the BAAC

2014-09-17

"Luck estimated the government still owed BAAC about 750 billion baht in debt related to the scheme.

"The government plans to set aside money from the central budget and the money it gets from selling rice stocks to repay the bank, but it could take around seven years for the government to pay it all back," he said.

The 750 billion baht was the money the government had borrowed from the bank to buy rice from farmers at 15,000 baht per tonne, about 60 percent above market rates, from October 2011 to February 2014."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/17/us-thailand-rice-debt-idUSKBN0HC10Q20140917