Envoy rejects US paper's attack on Thai government

[mikebike]

You wouldn't be too happy if people who had greater wealth than you, who were from a higher social status and more powerful removed some of your rights.

Uhm... that statement differs from how 'democracy' works in western societies now how exactly?

Edited March 3, 2015 by mikebike

[chooka]

Does the Junta have the power to grab the Washington Post staff and drag them in to adjustment. Geez it must hurt so bad that they can't control the world like they can Thailand and only allow pro junta stories and polls.

[Fat Haggis]

So many people on this forum who think they are smart and use words like Nazis and Hitler are not smart enough to know about Godwins Law ?

[TomJoad]

Why is democracy ALWAYS assumed to be the BEST form of government....?

Germany 1933 - a democracy that allowed Hitler to come to power. Millions died.

USA 2003 - a democracy that allowed George W. Bush to start a war over false claims. Hundreds of thousands died.

What false claims ?? Are you saying Sudam did not and never did have WMD ?? He killed his own people with chemicals, when I was involved in Desert Storm he fired Scud Missiles all over the area. I also believe he did move them to other countries prior to the invasion. Seems I also read here a while back they did in fact find evidence he had WMD !

We are faced today with even a bigger threat not just to Christians but to fellow Muslims as well.

Where did he get the chemicals? Answer: Bush One and Reagan (Saddam was the USA's ally back when Iraq was fighting Iran). Republicans also gave Saddam's scientists the anthrax bacteria in the 1980s. Google it.

Even Colin Powell has admitted that he told "numerous falsehoods" at the UN prior to the invasion in 2003. The "solid intelligence" Powell used was nearly all based on lies told by an Iraqi chemical engineer code-named "curveball". The guy wanted a green-card.

[Laughing Gravy]

Why is democracy ALWAYS assumed to be the BEST form of government....?

Germany 1933 - a democracy that allowed Hitler to come to power. Millions died.

USA 2003 - a democracy that allowed George W. Bush to start a war over false claims. Hundreds of thousands died.

Because it gives people are fair chance and equal say. Other than that you don't. It is that simple. Those that don't see that or don't want that could be called 'little Hitlers''.

I am not saying democracy is perfect but the best model for a free and fair chance of government.

I have put in bold the important terms, in case you can't see it.

[Fat Haggis]

There has been Chemical agents recovered in Iraq, but not the quantities to justify any form on Invasion, but that's way way off topic, the thread is about a Junta appointed envoy spitting a dummy out about a negative story in the WP.

Very sensitive these envoys and appointed personnel aren't they? Can they not just develop the same thick skin they have when they rip into the farangs on numerous occasions?

[TomJoad]

Why is democracy ALWAYS assumed to be the BEST form of government....?

Germany 1933 - a democracy that allowed Hitler to come to power. Millions died.

USA 2003 - a democracy that allowed George W. Bush to start a war over false claims. Hundreds of thousands died.

Hitler seized power because the weak democratic system was unable to block his ruthless style - using the opposition's sense of justice against them. using lies repeatedly to convince ordinary people of what he wanted them to believe; going outside of normal accepted human behavior to eliminate people opposed to him and instill hatred and fear in the masses.

Bush and his political machine used lies, took control of the media and repeatedly told nonsense to the masses until they believed his swill, while ignoring the realities out there in the world. Bush sold his ferry-tale fantasy about the bad guys out there threatening the American people - he over-rode the democratic process, ignoring the calls to answer questions about the truth of the contlicting claims that led him to conclude war was the answer.

These people were dictators, not democrats. Democracy does not have to be the BEST form of government - it is just the form that gives responsibility for the political decisions to the majority.

What would you have instead of democracy? a dictatorship by you? What about me as the dictator? I would see to it that bad people were killed or rendered harmless and only things that bring the most good to the most people were allowed. And so people - like you - would call me a ruthless tyrant. And that is why is is necessary to have a system that protects people from people like you. You don't get to make decisions that affect my life and I don't get to run your life and we can disagree openly and not resort to violence.

So in your post, you admit that a "weak democratic system" is NOT a good system. In fact, one of them led directly to WWII.

So then why should Thailand be forced to have an immature, weak, nonfunctional democratic system when it's been shown that weak ones can be dangerous to world peace? Sometimes a reasonable dictatorship is more desirable than a weak democracy.

[heybruce]

You might be correct but I don't hear any alternatives from you? Robert Heinlein summed it up nicely:

“Democracy is a poor system of government at best; the only thing that can honestly be said in its favor is that it is eight times as good as any other method the human race has ever tried.”

"Nope. Gadflies such as yourself are utterly necessary. Nor am I opposed to

'turning the rascals out'-it's usually the soundest rule of politics. But it's

well to take a look at what new rascals you are going to get before you jump at

any chance to turn your present rascals out. Democracy is a poor system of

government at best; the only thing that can honestly be said in its favor is

that it is about eight times as good as any other method the human race has ever

tried. Democracy's worst faults is that its leaders are likely to reflect the

faults and virtues of their constituents-a depressingly low level, but what else

can you expect? So take a look at Douglas and ponder that, in his ignorance,

stupidity, and self-seeking, he much resembles his fellow Americans, including

you and me . . . and that in fact he is a notch or two above the average. Then

take a look at the man who will replace him if his government topples."

Stranger in a strange land - Robert A. Heinlein

Congratulations for putting a misused quote into context.

It seems to elude some posters that what they call democracy is better called representative democracy. The people don't vote on every issue, they elect (hopefully) their best and smartest to represent them to make decisions on their behalf.

the system falls down when they, through lack of information or simple greed for the dangled carrot, elect those with more interest in themselves than the good of the nation. It heads for disaster when a wealthy and venal individual is able to "buy" sufficient representatives to seize power.

There is little democratic about elected representatives who are willing to accept payment to vote to the orders of such an individual.

You, rubl, and many others argue that the democratic system toppled by the military in the 2014 coup was flawed. I agree. However you, rubl, and all the others have not presented a remotely convincing argument that military rule, or the 'real democracy' the military is in the process of implementing, will be an improvement.

Remember, the badly flawed system you objected to was based on the constitution written at the direction of the military after the 2006 coup. And Prayuth, with his limited education, strictly military work experience, superstitions and authoritarian inclinations, is hardly a credible leader to bring about the educated population you think democracy requires.

[rubl]

You might be correct but I don't hear any alternatives from you? Robert Heinlein summed it up nicely:

“Democracy is a poor system of government at best; the only thing that can honestly be said in its favor is that it is eight times as good as any other method the human race has ever tried.”

"Nope. Gadflies such as yourself are utterly necessary. Nor am I opposed to

'turning the rascals out'-it's usually the soundest rule of politics. But it's

well to take a look at what new rascals you are going to get before you jump at

any chance to turn your present rascals out. Democracy is a poor system of

government at best; the only thing that can honestly be said in its favor is

that it is about eight times as good as any other method the human race has ever

tried. Democracy's worst faults is that its leaders are likely to reflect the

faults and virtues of their constituents-a depressingly low level, but what else

can you expect? So take a look at Douglas and ponder that, in his ignorance,

stupidity, and self-seeking, he much resembles his fellow Americans, including

you and me . . . and that in fact he is a notch or two above the average. Then

take a look at the man who will replace him if his government topples."

Stranger in a strange land - Robert A. Heinlein

Congratulations for putting a misused quote into context.

It seems to elude some posters that what they call democracy is better called representative democracy. The people don't vote on every issue, they elect (hopefully) their best and smartest to represent them to make decisions on their behalf.

the system falls down when they, through lack of information or simple greed for the dangled carrot, elect those with more interest in themselves than the good of the nation. It heads for disaster when a wealthy and venal individual is able to "buy" sufficient representatives to seize power.

There is little democratic about elected representatives who are willing to accept payment to vote to the orders of such an individual.

You, rubl, and many others argue that the democratic system toppled by the military in the 2014 coup was flawed. I agree. However you, rubl, and all the others have not presented a remotely convincing argument that military rule, or the 'real democracy' the military is in the process of implementing, will be an improvement.

Remember, the badly flawed system you objected to was based on the constitution written at the direction of the military after the 2006 coup. And Prayuth, with his limited education, strictly military work experience, superstitions and authoritarian inclinations, is hardly a credible leader to bring about the educated population you think democracy requires.

You and many others argue that Thailand should go back to the pre-coup situation as being the 'natural' democratic state. The argument "let's have elections" might be democratic but doesn't help.

As for argument on military rule, after all 'discussions' here I have come to the conclusion the only argument you like is the one agreeing with you. IMHO.

In January 2012 former Minister of Education (one of Ms. Yingluck's hand-picked knowledgeble, capable and full of potential fellows) started his policy with a philosophy based on the words of Pol. Lieut-Col Thaksin that well know criminal fugitive. The same MoE had interesting ideas on buying your way into a school. Hardly credible, now wouldn't you say?

Anyway, the topic is on a Thai envoy rejecting a USA papers attack.

And before you ask why I came with the long quote, well just putting things in perspective and giving the proper recognition of intellectual property

[TheDiva]

You, rubl, and many others argue that the democratic system toppled by the military in the 2014 coup was flawed. I agree. However you, rubl, and all the others have not presented a remotely convincing argument that military rule, or the 'real democracy' the military is in the process of implementing, will be an improvement.

Remember, the badly flawed system you objected to was based on the constitution written at the direction of the military after the 2006 coup. And Prayuth, with his limited education, strictly military work experience, superstitions and authoritarian inclinations, is hardly a credible leader to bring about the educated population you think democracy requires.

You and many others argue that Thailand should go back to the pre-coup situation as being the 'natural' democratic state. The argument "let's have elections" might be democratic but doesn't help.

As for argument on military rule, after all 'discussions' here I have come to the conclusion the only argument you like is the one agreeing with you. IMHO.

In January 2012 former Minister of Education (one of Ms. Yingluck's hand-picked knowledgeble, capable and full of potential fellows) started his policy with a philosophy based on the words of Pol. Lieut-Col Thaksin that well know criminal fugitive. The same MoE had interesting ideas on buying your way into a school. Hardly credible, now wouldn't you say?

Anyway, the topic is on a Thai envoy rejecting a USA papers attack.

And before you ask why I came with the long quote, well just putting things in perspective and giving the proper recognition of intellectual property

Do you have any opinions on why the Thai Envoy should or should not reject the article in the US paper? From your various posts I conclude that you believe a coup was, and still is, the correct response to the situation following on from a failed election last February, an election you deride by describing as being part of the 'natural' democratic state (your emphasis).

Just what, in the article, is an incorrect analysis of the present situation, in your opinion?

Edited March 3, 2015 by TheDiva

[heybruce]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

You, rubl, and many others argue that the democratic system toppled by the military in the 2014 coup was flawed. I agree. However you, rubl, and all the others have not presented a remotely convincing argument that military rule, or the 'real democracy' the military is in the process of implementing, will be an improvement.

Remember, the badly flawed system you objected to was based on the constitution written at the direction of the military after the 2006 coup. And Prayuth, with his limited education, strictly military work experience, superstitions and authoritarian inclinations, is hardly a credible leader to bring about the educated population you think democracy requires.

You and many others argue that Thailand should go back to the pre-coup situation as being the 'natural' democratic state. The argument "let's have elections" might be democratic but doesn't help.

As for argument on military rule, after all 'discussions' here I have come to the conclusion the only argument you like is the one agreeing with you. IMHO.

In January 2012 former Minister of Education (one of Ms. Yingluck's hand-picked knowledgeble, capable and full of potential fellows) started his policy with a philosophy based on the words of Pol. Lieut-Col Thaksin that well know criminal fugitive. The same MoE had interesting ideas on buying your way into a school. Hardly credible, now wouldn't you say?

Anyway, the topic is on a Thai envoy rejecting a USA papers attack.

And before you ask why I came with the long quote, well just putting things in perspective and giving the proper recognition of intellectual property

So, no explanation as to why a military installed government is superior to the one toppled in a coup, or how it will lead to a population better educated and able to participate in democracy.

An irrelevant allusion to a quote from the past, but no quote, so it can not be considered on it's merits. Ignore the message, attack the messenger, right?

And now you want only on-topic posts. Care to explain how your earlier post was on-topic?

The last time the USA was invaded they didn't notice till it was too late

[rubl]

You, rubl, and many others argue that the democratic system toppled by the military in the 2014 coup was flawed. I agree. However you, rubl, and all the others have not presented a remotely convincing argument that military rule, or the 'real democracy' the military is in the process of implementing, will be an improvement.

Remember, the badly flawed system you objected to was based on the constitution written at the direction of the military after the 2006 coup. And Prayuth, with his limited education, strictly military work experience, superstitions and authoritarian inclinations, is hardly a credible leader to bring about the educated population you think democracy requires.

You and many others argue that Thailand should go back to the pre-coup situation as being the 'natural' democratic state. The argument "let's have elections" might be democratic but doesn't help.

As for argument on military rule, after all 'discussions' here I have come to the conclusion the only argument you like is the one agreeing with you. IMHO.

In January 2012 former Minister of Education (one of Ms. Yingluck's hand-picked knowledgeble, capable and full of potential fellows) started his policy with a philosophy based on the words of Pol. Lieut-Col Thaksin that well know criminal fugitive. The same MoE had interesting ideas on buying your way into a school. Hardly credible, now wouldn't you say?

Anyway, the topic is on a Thai envoy rejecting a USA papers attack.

And before you ask why I came with the long quote, well just putting things in perspective and giving the proper recognition of intellectual property

Do you have any opinions on why the Thai Envoy should or should not reject the article in the US paper? From your various posts I conclude that you believe a coup was, and still is, the correct response to the situation following on from a failed election last February, an election you deride by describing as being part of the 'natural' democratic state (your emphasis).

Just what, in the article, is an incorrect analysis of the present situation, in your opinion?

I accept the question "Do you have any opinions on why the Thai Envoy should or should not reject the article in the US paper?"

Answer: the good fellow has his position to promote and defend his country. He's doing his work.

The OP has

"The envoy was referring to the Post's editorial entitled "Thailand's ineffective rule by force" which suggested that the Thai prime minister should get the message that in the absence of meaningful steps, starting with the lifting of martial law, the Thai military would lose its relationship with the United States, including future exercises"

One may wonder why there is stress on the 'future exercises'? Somehow the mention suggest that those exercises are very important to Thailand. Also the "if Pres. Obama doesn't do anything, Congress should step in" is a bit strange.

The article from the "editorial board" seems a bit prejudiced as well. They complain about "economy stagnant, no reconciliation, hundreds of political prisoners AND a criminal prosecution of Ms. Yingluck under way".

[rubl]

You and many others argue that Thailand should go back to the pre-coup situation as being the 'natural' democratic state. The argument "let's have elections" might be democratic but doesn't help.

As for argument on military rule, after all 'discussions' here I have come to the conclusion the only argument you like is the one agreeing with you. IMHO.

In January 2012 former Minister of Education (one of Ms. Yingluck's hand-picked knowledgeble, capable and full of potential fellows) started his policy with a philosophy based on the words of Pol. Lieut-Col Thaksin that well know criminal fugitive. The same MoE had interesting ideas on buying your way into a school. Hardly credible, now wouldn't you say?

Anyway, the topic is on a Thai envoy rejecting a USA papers attack.

And before you ask why I came with the long quote, well just putting things in perspective and giving the proper recognition of intellectual property

So, no explanation as to why a military installed government is superior to the one toppled in a coup, or how it will lead to a population better educated and able to participate in democracy.

An irrelevant allusion to a quote from the past, but no quote, so it can not be considered on it's merits. Ignore the message, attack the messenger, right?

And now you want only on-topic posts. Care to explain how your earlier post was on-topic?

The last time the USA was invaded they didn't notice till it was too late

You missed a few, my dear Brucy. I also didn't answer lots of other questions. Furthermore you don't seem to like my answers.

As for the quote, no quote, my excuses. I thought you would still remember from a topic six months or so ago when you saw nothing strange in a Minister quoting musings of a criminal fugitive important enough to have as philosophy to base his policies on.

It's from

""Policies of Ministry of Education

Prof. Dr. Suchart Thada-Thamrongvech

Minister of Education

25 January 2012""

As for the "Mouse that Roared", it was a reply to NCC1701A ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(NCC-1701-A) ) with

"if the USA is not careful, Thailand might invade."

[heybruce]

You and many others argue that Thailand should go back to the pre-coup situation as being the 'natural' democratic state. The argument "let's have elections" might be democratic but doesn't help.

As for argument on military rule, after all 'discussions' here I have come to the conclusion the only argument you like is the one agreeing with you. IMHO.

In January 2012 former Minister of Education (one of Ms. Yingluck's hand-picked knowledgeble, capable and full of potential fellows) started his policy with a philosophy based on the words of Pol. Lieut-Col Thaksin that well know criminal fugitive. The same MoE had interesting ideas on buying your way into a school. Hardly credible, now wouldn't you say?

Anyway, the topic is on a Thai envoy rejecting a USA papers attack.

And before you ask why I came with the long quote, well just putting things in perspective and giving the proper recognition of intellectual property

So, no explanation as to why a military installed government is superior to the one toppled in a coup, or how it will lead to a population better educated and able to participate in democracy.

An irrelevant allusion to a quote from the past, but no quote, so it can not be considered on it's merits. Ignore the message, attack the messenger, right?

And now you want only on-topic posts. Care to explain how your earlier post was on-topic?

The last time the USA was invaded they didn't notice till it was too late

You missed a few, my dear Brucy. I also didn't answer lots of other questions. Furthermore you don't seem to like my answers.

As for the quote, no quote, my excuses. I thought you would still remember from a topic six months or so ago when you saw nothing strange in a Minister quoting musings of a criminal fugitive important enough to have as philosophy to base his policies on.

It's from

""Policies of Ministry of Education

Prof. Dr. Suchart Thada-Thamrongvech

Minister of Education

25 January 2012""

As for the "Mouse that Roared", it was a reply to NCC1701A ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(NCC-1701-A) ) with

"if the USA is not careful, Thailand might invade."

Yeah, I remember that ministry of education stuff, you were trying to derail a topic then as well. Then as now, you fixated on the messenger instead of the message.

So once again, you give no reason why the military government is better than the one it toppled, no reason to think it will better prepare the Thai population for democracy, and no reason why you had to reply to an off-topic post with more off-topic nonsense..

[rubl]

You missed a few, my dear Brucy. I also didn't answer lots of other questions. Furthermore you don't seem to like my answers.

As for the quote, no quote, my excuses. I thought you would still remember from a topic six months or so ago when you saw nothing strange in a Minister quoting musings of a criminal fugitive important enough to have as philosophy to base his policies on.

It's from

""Policies of Ministry of Education

Prof. Dr. Suchart Thada-Thamrongvech

Minister of Education

25 January 2012""

As for the "Mouse that Roared", it was a reply to NCC1701A ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(NCC-1701-A) ) with

"if the USA is not careful, Thailand might invade."

Yeah, I remember that ministry of education stuff, you were trying to derail a topic then as well. Then as now, you fixated on the messenger instead of the message.

So once again, you give no reason why the military government is better than the one it toppled, no reason to think it will better prepare the Thai population for democracy, and no reason why you had to reply to an off-topic post with more off-topic nonsense..

Ah you do remember the lessons on democracy? Even then you had no problem with a Minister democratically basing his policy of a philosophy from a criminal fugitive. And with such attitude you ask questions irrelevant to the topic?

Did you even read the editorial article? "The Post's view' by "The Editorial Board'

Did you notice the straight bias and the 'interesting' way of stating things? Nine months gone and no progress? Hundreds of political prisoners? Ms. Yingluck criminally prosecuted?

Remarks like "Shinawatra family which won every election since 2001", 'Thaksin, the families exiled leader'.

What is really interesting is the 'threat'

""If the Obama administration is unwilling to act, Congress should step in.""

[heybruce]

You missed a few, my dear Brucy. I also didn't answer lots of other questions. Furthermore you don't seem to like my answers.

As for the quote, no quote, my excuses. I thought you would still remember from a topic six months or so ago when you saw nothing strange in a Minister quoting musings of a criminal fugitive important enough to have as philosophy to base his policies on.

It's from

""Policies of Ministry of Education

Prof. Dr. Suchart Thada-Thamrongvech

Minister of Education

25 January 2012""

As for the "Mouse that Roared", it was a reply to NCC1701A ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(NCC-1701-A) ) with

"if the USA is not careful, Thailand might invade."

Yeah, I remember that ministry of education stuff, you were trying to derail a topic then as well. Then as now, you fixated on the messenger instead of the message.

So once again, you give no reason why the military government is better than the one it toppled, no reason to think it will better prepare the Thai population for democracy, and no reason why you had to reply to an off-topic post with more off-topic nonsense..

Ah you do remember the lessons on democracy? Even then you had no problem with a Minister democratically basing his policy of a philosophy from a criminal fugitive. And with such attitude you ask questions irrelevant to the topic?

Did you even read the editorial article? "The Post's view' by "The Editorial Board'

Did you notice the straight bias and the 'interesting' way of stating things? Nine months gone and no progress? Hundreds of political prisoners? Ms. Yingluck criminally prosecuted?

Remarks like "Shinawatra family which won every election since 2001", 'Thaksin, the families exiled leader'.

What is really interesting is the 'threat'

""If the Obama administration is unwilling to act, Congress should step in.""

"Ah you do remember the lessons on democracy? Even then you had no problem with a Minister democratically basing his policy of a philosophy from a criminal fugitive."

I recall no useful lessons on democracy posted by you. I recall an OP about the junta's transparent attempt at indoctrination under the pretext of "lessons on democracy", and I recall you attempting to derail a critical discussion of the topic by fixating on the source of a trivial statement on a document from the last government. And here you demonstrate once again that the source of a message is all that matters to you. What the message is matters not in your mind. Or perhaps what matters to you is shielding the junta from criticism with obsessive posting about trivial matters and "The Mouse that Roared" videos.

I read the OP and both articles it was based on. I agreed with most of the Washington Post arguments, and didn't read any substantive refutation of the article from the Thai envoy. I don't see any substantive refutation of the article from you either.

The "threat" is not the sentence you quoted. The threat is from a paper that posts editorials without fear of detention without charge and attitude adjustment. The junta understandably fears that. It seems you do as well.

Edited March 3, 2015 by heybruce

[northernjohn]

Why is democracy ALWAYS assumed to be the BEST form of government....?

Germany 1933 - a democracy that allowed Hitler to come to power. Millions died.

USA 2003 - a democracy that allowed George W. Bush to start a war over false claims. Hundreds of thousands died.

Not to mention that Bush did not get the most votes. Gore got more than him.

That is not really what Democracy is about.

[rubl]

You missed a few, my dear Brucy. I also didn't answer lots of other questions. Furthermore you don't seem to like my answers.

As for the quote, no quote, my excuses. I thought you would still remember from a topic six months or so ago when you saw nothing strange in a Minister quoting musings of a criminal fugitive important enough to have as philosophy to base his policies on.

It's from

""Policies of Ministry of Education

Prof. Dr. Suchart Thada-Thamrongvech

Minister of Education

25 January 2012""

As for the "Mouse that Roared", it was a reply to NCC1701A ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(NCC-1701-A) ) with

"if the USA is not careful, Thailand might invade."

Yeah, I remember that ministry of education stuff, you were trying to derail a topic then as well. Then as now, you fixated on the messenger instead of the message.

So once again, you give no reason why the military government is better than the one it toppled, no reason to think it will better prepare the Thai population for democracy, and no reason why you had to reply to an off-topic post with more off-topic nonsense..

Ah you do remember the lessons on democracy? Even then you had no problem with a Minister democratically basing his policy of a philosophy from a criminal fugitive. And with such attitude you ask questions irrelevant to the topic?

Did you even read the editorial article? "The Post's view' by "The Editorial Board'

Did you notice the straight bias and the 'interesting' way of stating things? Nine months gone and no progress? Hundreds of political prisoners? Ms. Yingluck criminally prosecuted?

Remarks like "Shinawatra family which won every election since 2001", 'Thaksin, the families exiled leader'.

What is really interesting is the 'threat'

""If the Obama administration is unwilling to act, Congress should step in.""

"Ah you do remember the lessons on democracy? Even then you had no problem with a Minister democratically basing his policy of a philosophy from a criminal fugitive."

I recall no useful lessons on democracy posted by you. I recall an OP about the junta's transparent attempt at indoctrination under the pretext of "lessons on democracy", and I recall you attempting to derail a critical discussion of the topic by fixating on the source of a trivial statement on a document from the last government. And here you demonstrate once again that the source of a message is all that matters to you. What the message is matters not in your mind. Or perhaps what matters to you is shielding the junta from criticism with obsessive posting about trivial matters and "The Mouse that Roared" videos.

I read the OP and both articles it was based on. I agreed with most of the Washington Post arguments, and didn't read any substantive refutation of the article from the Thai envoy. I don't see any substantive refutation of the article from you either.

The "threat" is not the sentence you quoted. The threat is from a paper that posts editorials without fear of detention without charge and attitude adjustment. The junta understandably fears that. It seems you do as well.

It would seem you fear opinions which do not match your own. Furthermore you also seem to have a somewhat biased view on things. That's my opinion.

BTW as for your "no explanation as to why a military installed government is superior to the one toppled in a coup, or how it will lead to a population better educated and able to participate in democracy", I gave an indirect answer with my "trivial statement on a document from the last government". That was the Philosophy the new Minister of Education under PM Yingluck used to base his policy on. Strange to see you call that 'trivial.

That MoE also said 'schools-seats-for-cash' policy isn't bribery.

"He said the policy would allow schools to accept donations transparently from parents and open separate classrooms for their children."

http://eng.eduzones.com/blog/2012/03/06/suchart-says-school-seats-for-cash-policy-isnt-bribery/

Democracy anyone?

[heybruce]

Yeah, I remember that ministry of education stuff, you were trying to derail a topic then as well. Then as now, you fixated on the messenger instead of the message.

So once again, you give no reason why the military government is better than the one it toppled, no reason to think it will better prepare the Thai population for democracy, and no reason why you had to reply to an off-topic post with more off-topic nonsense..

Ah you do remember the lessons on democracy? Even then you had no problem with a Minister democratically basing his policy of a philosophy from a criminal fugitive. And with such attitude you ask questions irrelevant to the topic?

Did you even read the editorial article? "The Post's view' by "The Editorial Board'

Did you notice the straight bias and the 'interesting' way of stating things? Nine months gone and no progress? Hundreds of political prisoners? Ms. Yingluck criminally prosecuted?

Remarks like "Shinawatra family which won every election since 2001", 'Thaksin, the families exiled leader'.

What is really interesting is the 'threat'

""If the Obama administration is unwilling to act, Congress should step in.""

"Ah you do remember the lessons on democracy? Even then you had no problem with a Minister democratically basing his policy of a philosophy from a criminal fugitive."

I recall no useful lessons on democracy posted by you. I recall an OP about the junta's transparent attempt at indoctrination under the pretext of "lessons on democracy", and I recall you attempting to derail a critical discussion of the topic by fixating on the source of a trivial statement on a document from the last government. And here you demonstrate once again that the source of a message is all that matters to you. What the message is matters not in your mind. Or perhaps what matters to you is shielding the junta from criticism with obsessive posting about trivial matters and "The Mouse that Roared" videos.

I read the OP and both articles it was based on. I agreed with most of the Washington Post arguments, and didn't read any substantive refutation of the article from the Thai envoy. I don't see any substantive refutation of the article from you either.

The "threat" is not the sentence you quoted. The threat is from a paper that posts editorials without fear of detention without charge and attitude adjustment. The junta understandably fears that. It seems you do as well.

It would seem you fear opinions which do not match your own. Furthermore you also seem to have a somewhat biased view on things. That's my opinion.

BTW as for your "no explanation as to why a military installed government is superior to the one toppled in a coup, or how it will lead to a population better educated and able to participate in democracy", I gave an indirect answer with my "trivial statement on a document from the last government". That was the Philosophy the new Minister of Education under PM Yingluck used to base his policy on. Strange to see you call that 'trivial.

That MoE also said 'schools-seats-for-cash' policy isn't bribery.

"He said the policy would allow schools to accept donations transparently from parents and open separate classrooms for their children."

http://eng.eduzones.com/blog/2012/03/06/suchart-says-school-seats-for-cash-policy-isnt-bribery/

Democracy anyone?

I fear opinions that don't match my own? No, I'm appalled and repulsed by people who should know better but who defend military coups against democratic government and defend military juntas that trample human rights. I also question the intelligence of these people. But I don't fear their foolish opinions. I'd even listen to a rational defense of these opinions, but they would have to do better than "Thaksin was bad!"

So, no comment from you on this OP, no comment on the OP from long ago on "lessons in democracy" other than to resurrect your earlier diversion that had nothing to do with the junta's planned indoctrination classes, and more off-topic posts to distract from discussions critical of the junta. The usual stuff from you.

[tbthailand]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

So why didn't the military step in as soon as the protests started to protect the elected government and prevent all the mayhem?

I know, and I'm sure all the other supporters of democracy on here do too.

Because of several reasons; Under a democracy, that is held so dear, the people have the right to peaceful protest. Not just the right to vote.

The violence only started when the protesters were attacked and at that time and from then on it was the job of the police to prevent the violence and bring the offenders to justice. This they did not do instead protecting the attackers.

It is not the job of the military to protect an elected Government, they may be called on by an elected Government to handle a situation that is out of control as in 2010. The PT Government did not call on the military.

The military stepped in after the Government had resigned and the few remaining caretaker cabinet ministers and police under the watchful eyes of the DSI and CAPO showed they had no intention of attempting to control the violence. Indeed there was talk of civil war and setting up a government in the north of the country.

The military called the parties together and attempted to mediate a settlement with no success.

That was when they decided they had no alternative but to take over to avoid farther bloodshed and disruption.

It is certainly not the military's role to be in cahoots with a movement to oust the government. That is treason.

The violence was incited by the PRDC in order to create the situation needed for the army to step in.

The civil war argument is simply laughable. The majority of Thais are apathetic and certainly not about to start a war.

The military called parties together and told PTP they had to step down.

The military had made it quite clear in 2008 that they would not support a Thaksin government to remove yellow protesters.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/nov/26/thai-leader-rejects-protests

You wanna believe the guardian, suggest you do some more research.

sure, go ahead.

you'll find out that the guardian wasn't the only news organization reporting the same events...

[rubl]

Ah you do remember the lessons on democracy? Even then you had no problem with a Minister democratically basing his policy of a philosophy from a criminal fugitive. And with such attitude you ask questions irrelevant to the topic?

Did you even read the editorial article? "The Post's view' by "The Editorial Board'

Did you notice the straight bias and the 'interesting' way of stating things? Nine months gone and no progress? Hundreds of political prisoners? Ms. Yingluck criminally prosecuted?

Remarks like "Shinawatra family which won every election since 2001", 'Thaksin, the families exiled leader'.

What is really interesting is the 'threat'

""If the Obama administration is unwilling to act, Congress should step in.""

"Ah you do remember the lessons on democracy? Even then you had no problem with a Minister democratically basing his policy of a philosophy from a criminal fugitive."

I recall no useful lessons on democracy posted by you. I recall an OP about the junta's transparent attempt at indoctrination under the pretext of "lessons on democracy", and I recall you attempting to derail a critical discussion of the topic by fixating on the source of a trivial statement on a document from the last government. And here you demonstrate once again that the source of a message is all that matters to you. What the message is matters not in your mind. Or perhaps what matters to you is shielding the junta from criticism with obsessive posting about trivial matters and "The Mouse that Roared" videos.

I read the OP and both articles it was based on. I agreed with most of the Washington Post arguments, and didn't read any substantive refutation of the article from the Thai envoy. I don't see any substantive refutation of the article from you either.

The "threat" is not the sentence you quoted. The threat is from a paper that posts editorials without fear of detention without charge and attitude adjustment. The junta understandably fears that. It seems you do as well.

It would seem you fear opinions which do not match your own. Furthermore you also seem to have a somewhat biased view on things. That's my opinion.

BTW as for your "no explanation as to why a military installed government is superior to the one toppled in a coup, or how it will lead to a population better educated and able to participate in democracy", I gave an indirect answer with my "trivial statement on a document from the last government". That was the Philosophy the new Minister of Education under PM Yingluck used to base his policy on. Strange to see you call that 'trivial.

That MoE also said 'schools-seats-for-cash' policy isn't bribery.

"He said the policy would allow schools to accept donations transparently from parents and open separate classrooms for their children."

http://eng.eduzones.com/blog/2012/03/06/suchart-says-school-seats-for-cash-policy-isnt-bribery/

Democracy anyone?

I fear opinions that don't match my own? No, I'm appalled and repulsed by people who should know better but who defend military coups against democratic government and defend military juntas that trample human rights. I also question the intelligence of these people. But I don't fear their foolish opinions. I'd even listen to a rational defense of these opinions, but they would have to do better than "Thaksin was bad!"

So, no comment from you on this OP, no comment on the OP from long ago on "lessons in democracy" other than to resurrect your earlier diversion that had nothing to do with the junta's planned indoctrination classes, and more off-topic posts to distract from discussions critical of the junta. The usual stuff from you.

Terribly sorry and all that, but the comment I gave doesn't seem to your liking. Still it's comment on the OP and even answers in part your leading question on what the military have in favour on the previous government regarding a.o. education.

Hey 'zigzag' Brucy, just the usual from you.

[Muirton]

Why is democracy ALWAYS assumed to be the BEST form of government....?

Germany 1933 - a democracy that allowed Hitler to come to power. Millions died.

USA 2003 - a democracy that allowed George W. Bush to start a war over false claims. Hundreds of thousands died.

Hitler was never elected. The Myth That Will Not Die. He was appointed.

[heybruce]

"Ah you do remember the lessons on democracy? Even then you had no problem with a Minister democratically basing his policy of a philosophy from a criminal fugitive."

I recall no useful lessons on democracy posted by you. I recall an OP about the junta's transparent attempt at indoctrination under the pretext of "lessons on democracy", and I recall you attempting to derail a critical discussion of the topic by fixating on the source of a trivial statement on a document from the last government. And here you demonstrate once again that the source of a message is all that matters to you. What the message is matters not in your mind. Or perhaps what matters to you is shielding the junta from criticism with obsessive posting about trivial matters and "The Mouse that Roared" videos.

I read the OP and both articles it was based on. I agreed with most of the Washington Post arguments, and didn't read any substantive refutation of the article from the Thai envoy. I don't see any substantive refutation of the article from you either.

The "threat" is not the sentence you quoted. The threat is from a paper that posts editorials without fear of detention without charge and attitude adjustment. The junta understandably fears that. It seems you do as well.

It would seem you fear opinions which do not match your own. Furthermore you also seem to have a somewhat biased view on things. That's my opinion.

BTW as for your "no explanation as to why a military installed government is superior to the one toppled in a coup, or how it will lead to a population better educated and able to participate in democracy", I gave an indirect answer with my "trivial statement on a document from the last government". That was the Philosophy the new Minister of Education under PM Yingluck used to base his policy on. Strange to see you call that 'trivial.

That MoE also said 'schools-seats-for-cash' policy isn't bribery.

"He said the policy would allow schools to accept donations transparently from parents and open separate classrooms for their children."

http://eng.eduzones.com/blog/2012/03/06/suchart-says-school-seats-for-cash-policy-isnt-bribery/

Democracy anyone?

I fear opinions that don't match my own? No, I'm appalled and repulsed by people who should know better but who defend military coups against democratic government and defend military juntas that trample human rights. I also question the intelligence of these people. But I don't fear their foolish opinions. I'd even listen to a rational defense of these opinions, but they would have to do better than "Thaksin was bad!"

So, no comment from you on this OP, no comment on the OP from long ago on "lessons in democracy" other than to resurrect your earlier diversion that had nothing to do with the junta's planned indoctrination classes, and more off-topic posts to distract from discussions critical of the junta. The usual stuff from you.

Terribly sorry and all that, but the comment I gave doesn't seem to your liking. Still it's comment on the OP and even answers in part your leading question on what the military have in favour on the previous government regarding a.o. education.

Hey 'zigzag' Brucy, just the usual from you.

"Terribly sorry and all that, but the comment I gave doesn't seem to your liking."

Well, it is completely irrelevant to the OP. You, as the self-appointed topic policeman, should recognize that.

"Still it's comment on the OP and even answers in part your leading question on what the military have in favour on the previous government regarding a.o. education."

No, it's not a comment on the OP, but you finally explained why you keep bringing up this nonsense, the nonsense of a quote you will not quote but continuously refer to. This quote, from a January 2012 a paper titled "Policies of Ministry of Education", that Thaksin had made many years earlier:

"Police Lieutenant Colonel Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra has said about education that “Education will lead to the building of people’s vigour. Vigorous and knowledgeable people are powerful capital to fight with poverty.” “Emphases must be on distribution of benefits with equity, and on regards of people with difficulties, in order to provide quality education for everyone.” “Education is an important key, a starting element that is necessary in making poverty become past.”" http://www.sathukit.com/edu-policy-en.pdf

Hardly riveting, perhaps it lost something in translation, but hardly controversial, even though you try your best to make it so. BTW, Thaksin resigned his police commission in 1987, so the quote was decades old and predates any criminal charges or convictions.

Because of this statement you believe that junta that came to power in a coup against an elected government, will do a better job of preparing the Thai people for democracy.

In addition, you assume that PM General Prayuth--a man with no education outside the military and no teaching experience, a man with obvious authoritarian instincts and no respect for democracy, a deeply superstitious man who names his lucky rings, arranges his office according to feng shui beliefs, and who was afraid someone had cursed him so he had himself doused with holy water--is the proper man to head a 'super board' on education reform and bring about this better educated population. Would you want someone who believes in curses and shamans to head up education reform in your home country?

I suspect many people will disagree. Do you have anything to bolster your argument that the junta is better qualified to educate the Thai people than your three year old document that uses a decades old quote form Thaksin? Do you have anything to counter all the many reasons to believe the junta and Prayuth are not qualified to educate the people about democracy?

Edited March 4, 2015 by heybruce

[aimbc]

Envoy rejects US paper's attack on Thai government

well of course he would...

here is the editorial and

here is this guy's response.

you be the judge...

thanks for publishing the editorial. was a good read and thught provoking. in the forty two years I have been associated with thailand i have seen general after genaeral take over. it has not worked in the past and as long as the people of the north and northeast ae reated as second class citizens, don't think things will change.

As long as there are people to classify people in to classes, there will never be equality. USA has a big second and third class citizen. That is just political propaganda to attract a certain group to support them.

What is the standard of a first class and second class citizen? To have more makes you are an upper class citizen? Who is to say a person in issan living on a farm working on his rice field is a second class citizen? He may not be able to own a car. But he has no stress about making car payments, fixing the car, paying for the high price of gas. All material things causes unnecessary stress in life. And we buy in to that as success and an upper class status. Having all of that and a lung full of polluted air and money worries is hardly thing close to upper class.

[TomJoad]

Why is democracy ALWAYS assumed to be the BEST form of government....?

Germany 1933 - a democracy that allowed Hitler to come to power. Millions died.

USA 2003 - a democracy that allowed George W. Bush to start a war over false claims. Hundreds of thousands died.

Hitler was never elected. The Myth That Will Not Die. He was appointed.

Try again.

It says "allowed Hitler to come to power". Nowhere did I say "elected".

[LuckyLew]

Who cares what the Americans think?

It is none of their businness

They are not Thailands older brother

[rubl]

It would seem you fear opinions which do not match your own. Furthermore you also seem to have a somewhat biased view on things. That's my opinion.

BTW as for your "no explanation as to why a military installed government is superior to the one toppled in a coup, or how it will lead to a population better educated and able to participate in democracy", I gave an indirect answer with my "trivial statement on a document from the last government". That was the Philosophy the new Minister of Education under PM Yingluck used to base his policy on. Strange to see you call that 'trivial.

That MoE also said 'schools-seats-for-cash' policy isn't bribery.

"He said the policy would allow schools to accept donations transparently from parents and open separate classrooms for their children."

http://eng.eduzones.com/blog/2012/03/06/suchart-says-school-seats-for-cash-policy-isnt-bribery/

Democracy anyone?

I fear opinions that don't match my own? No, I'm appalled and repulsed by people who should know better but who defend military coups against democratic government and defend military juntas that trample human rights. I also question the intelligence of these people. But I don't fear their foolish opinions. I'd even listen to a rational defense of these opinions, but they would have to do better than "Thaksin was bad!"

So, no comment from you on this OP, no comment on the OP from long ago on "lessons in democracy" other than to resurrect your earlier diversion that had nothing to do with the junta's planned indoctrination classes, and more off-topic posts to distract from discussions critical of the junta. The usual stuff from you.

Terribly sorry and all that, but the comment I gave doesn't seem to your liking. Still it's comment on the OP and even answers in part your leading question on what the military have in favour on the previous government regarding a.o. education.

Hey 'zigzag' Brucy, just the usual from you.

"Terribly sorry and all that, but the comment I gave doesn't seem to your liking."

Well, it is completely irrelevant to the OP. You, as the self-appointed topic policeman, should recognize that.

"Still it's comment on the OP and even answers in part your leading question on what the military have in favour on the previous government regarding a.o. education."

No, it's not a comment on the OP, but you finally explained why you keep bringing up this nonsense, the nonsense of a quote you will not quote but continuously refer to. This quote, from a January 2012 a paper titled "Policies of Ministry of Education", that Thaksin had made many years earlier:

"Police Lieutenant Colonel Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra has said about education that “Education will lead to the building of people’s vigour. Vigorous and knowledgeable people are powerful capital to fight with poverty.” “Emphases must be on distribution of benefits with equity, and on regards of people with difficulties, in order to provide quality education for everyone.” “Education is an important key, a starting element that is necessary in making poverty become past.”" http://www.sathukit.com/edu-policy-en.pdf

Hardly riveting, perhaps it lost something in translation, but hardly controversial, even though you try your best to make it so. BTW, Thaksin resigned his police commission in 1987, so the quote was decades old and predates any criminal charges or convictions.

Because of this statement you believe that junta that came to power in a coup against an elected government, will do a better job of preparing the Thai people for democracy.

In addition, you assume that PM General Prayuth--a man with no education outside the military and no teaching experience, a man with obvious authoritarian instincts and no respect for democracy, a deeply superstitious man who names his lucky rings, arranges his office according to feng shui beliefs, and who was afraid someone had cursed him so he had himself doused with holy water--is the proper man to head a 'super board' on education reform and bring about this better educated population. Would you want someone who believes in curses and shamans to head up education reform in your home country?

I suspect many people will disagree. Do you have anything to bolster your argument that the junta is better qualified to educate the Thai people than your three year old document that uses a decades old quote form Thaksin? Do you have anything to counter all the many reasons to believe the junta and Prayuth are not qualified to educate the people about democracy?

I only mentioned the previous MoE as you wondered what made the 'junta' better at education. You still have a funny idea about education if you see nothing wrong with a MoE quoting a criminal fugitive who happens to be the brother of the PM, the brother who orders 'his' cabinet around from afar'. Next I also added the quote to 'legalising tea money'. Just to show that 'elected' governments in Thailand do not have a good name in education. It would seem the current government cannot do worse and probably better.

As for your description of PM Prayuth the same goes for many Thai including 'real' politicians and those from Thai-Chinese families.

Next the article. It show a bias towards the Shinawatras. It mentions "hundreds of political prisoners AND Ms. Yingluck's criminal persecution". Only that already suggest that Ms. Yingluck is 'obviously' innocent, apart from the fact that Ms. Yingluck isn't criminally persecuted, she's only indicted and justly so.

[heybruce]

I fear opinions that don't match my own? No, I'm appalled and repulsed by people who should know better but who defend military coups against democratic government and defend military juntas that trample human rights. I also question the intelligence of these people. But I don't fear their foolish opinions. I'd even listen to a rational defense of these opinions, but they would have to do better than "Thaksin was bad!"

So, no comment from you on this OP, no comment on the OP from long ago on "lessons in democracy" other than to resurrect your earlier diversion that had nothing to do with the junta's planned indoctrination classes, and more off-topic posts to distract from discussions critical of the junta. The usual stuff from you.

Terribly sorry and all that, but the comment I gave doesn't seem to your liking. Still it's comment on the OP and even answers in part your leading question on what the military have in favour on the previous government regarding a.o. education.

Hey 'zigzag' Brucy, just the usual from you.

"Terribly sorry and all that, but the comment I gave doesn't seem to your liking."

Well, it is completely irrelevant to the OP. You, as the self-appointed topic policeman, should recognize that.

"Still it's comment on the OP and even answers in part your leading question on what the military have in favour on the previous government regarding a.o. education."

No, it's not a comment on the OP, but you finally explained why you keep bringing up this nonsense, the nonsense of a quote you will not quote but continuously refer to. This quote, from a January 2012 a paper titled "Policies of Ministry of Education", that Thaksin had made many years earlier:

"Police Lieutenant Colonel Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra has said about education that “Education will lead to the building of people’s vigour. Vigorous and knowledgeable people are powerful capital to fight with poverty.” “Emphases must be on distribution of benefits with equity, and on regards of people with difficulties, in order to provide quality education for everyone.” “Education is an important key, a starting element that is necessary in making poverty become past.”" http://www.sathukit.com/edu-policy-en.pdf

Hardly riveting, perhaps it lost something in translation, but hardly controversial, even though you try your best to make it so. BTW, Thaksin resigned his police commission in 1987, so the quote was decades old and predates any criminal charges or convictions.

Because of this statement you believe that junta that came to power in a coup against an elected government, will do a better job of preparing the Thai people for democracy.

In addition, you assume that PM General Prayuth--a man with no education outside the military and no teaching experience, a man with obvious authoritarian instincts and no respect for democracy, a deeply superstitious man who names his lucky rings, arranges his office according to feng shui beliefs, and who was afraid someone had cursed him so he had himself doused with holy water--is the proper man to head a 'super board' on education reform and bring about this better educated population. Would you want someone who believes in curses and shamans to head up education reform in your home country?

I suspect many people will disagree. Do you have anything to bolster your argument that the junta is better qualified to educate the Thai people than your three year old document that uses a decades old quote form Thaksin? Do you have anything to counter all the many reasons to believe the junta and Prayuth are not qualified to educate the people about democracy?

I only mentioned the previous MoE as you wondered what made the 'junta' better at education. You still have a funny idea about education if you see nothing wrong with a MoE quoting a criminal fugitive who happens to be the brother of the PM, the brother who orders 'his' cabinet around from afar'. Next I also added the quote to 'legalising tea money'. Just to show that 'elected' governments in Thailand do not have a good name in education. It would seem the current government cannot do worse and probably better.

As for your description of PM Prayuth the same goes for many Thai including 'real' politicians and those from Thai-Chinese families.

Next the article. It show a bias towards the Shinawatras. It mentions "hundreds of political prisoners AND Ms. Yingluck's criminal persecution". Only that already suggest that Ms. Yingluck is 'obviously' innocent, apart from the fact that Ms. Yingluck isn't criminally persecuted, she's only indicted and justly so.

"I only mentioned the previous MoE as you wondered what made the 'junta' better at education."

And you have provided no reason to believe the junta is better qualified to educate the population about democracy. It seems obvious it is not.

"You still have a funny idea about education if you see nothing wrong with a MoE quoting a criminal fugitive who happens to be the brother of the PM, the brother who orders 'his' cabinet around from afar'."

You are very careful to avoid the message, you simply imply the messenger corrupts all who apply the message. Does that apply in other areas? Roman Polanski is a criminal fugitive film director who plead guilty to charges of plying a 13 year old girl with drugs and alcohol then raping and sodomizing her. Do you think anyone who watches movies such as "Rosmary's Baby", "Chinatown", "The Pianist", and many others supports pedophilia?

"Just to show that 'elected' governments in Thailand do not have a good name in education. It would seem the current government cannot do worse and probably better."

The elected governments did improve access to education in much of Thailand, and didn't engage in historical white-washing and propaganda to the degree that the junta is doing so. It would seem a deeply superstitious coup leader with limited education is already doing much worse in education.

"As for your description of PM Prayuth the same goes for many Thai including 'real' politicians and those from Thai-Chinese families."

As a percentage of population the number of Thais who have lead a coup and who's education is limited to military schools is small, so I assume you mean many Thais are deeply superstitious, to the degree of allowing superstition to guide their lives. No doubt true, but none of these people should be allowed to influence the education system in Thailand in any way.

"Next the article. It show a bias towards the Shinawatras. It mentions "hundreds of political prisoners AND Ms. Yingluck's criminal persecution". Only that already suggest that Ms. Yingluck is 'obviously' innocent, apart from the fact that Ms. Yingluck isn't criminally persecuted, she's only indicted and justly so."

Finally, something on-topic. I don't read a bias towards the Shinawatras in the editorial, I read a bias towards elected governments and against military rule. The Washington Post is not alone in being concerned about political prisoners in Thailand http://news.asiaone.com/news/asian-opinions/international-community-sceptical-thai-governments-reform-claims, and few people believe Pisan Manawapat's claim that there are no political prisoners in Thailand. That was the only substantive statement the Thai envoy made against the original Washington Post editorial, and it has no credibility.

What qualifies as criminal persecution is debatable, but the fact that elected leaders get prosecuted in Thailand and coup leaders don't is not debatable. Outside of Thailand that is seen as blatantly anti-democratic.

[rubl]

"I only mentioned the previous MoE as you wondered what made the 'junta' better at education."

And you have provided no reason to believe the junta is better qualified to educate the population about democracy. It seems obvious it is not.

"You still have a funny idea about education if you see nothing wrong with a MoE quoting a criminal fugitive who happens to be the brother of the PM, the brother who orders 'his' cabinet around from afar'."

You are very careful to avoid the message, you simply imply the messenger corrupts all who apply the message. Does that apply in other areas? Roman Polanski is a criminal fugitive film director who plead guilty to charges of plying a 13 year old girl with drugs and alcohol then raping and sodomizing her. Do you think anyone who watches movies such as "Rosmary's Baby", "Chinatown", "The Pianist", and many others supports pedophilia?

"Just to show that 'elected' governments in Thailand do not have a good name in education. It would seem the current government cannot do worse and probably better."

The elected governments did improve access to education in much of Thailand, and didn't engage in historical white-washing and propaganda to the degree that the junta is doing so. It would seem a deeply superstitious coup leader with limited education is already doing much worse in education.

"As for your description of PM Prayuth the same goes for many Thai including 'real' politicians and those from Thai-Chinese families."

As a percentage of population the number of Thais who have lead a coup and who's education is limited to military schools is small, so I assume you mean many Thais are deeply superstitious, to the degree of allowing superstition to guide their lives. No doubt true, but none of these people should be allowed to influence the education system in Thailand in any way.

"Next the article. It show a bias towards the Shinawatras. It mentions "hundreds of political prisoners AND Ms. Yingluck's criminal persecution". Only that already suggest that Ms. Yingluck is 'obviously' innocent, apart from the fact that Ms. Yingluck isn't criminally persecuted, she's only indicted and justly so."

Finally, something on-topic. I don't read a bias towards the Shinawatras in the editorial, I read a bias towards elected governments and against military rule. The Washington Post is not alone in being concerned about political prisoners in Thailand http://news.asiaone.com/news/asian-opinions/international-community-sceptical-thai-governments-reform-claims, and few people believe Pisan Manawapat's claim that there are no political prisoners in Thailand. That was the only substantive statement the Thai envoy made against the original Washington Post editorial, and it has no credibility.

What qualifies as criminal persecution is debatable, but the fact that elected leaders get prosecuted in Thailand and coup leaders don't is not debatable. Outside of Thailand that is seen as blatantly anti-democratic.

The bias of the WP editorial is in positioning the Shinawatras as victims which has nothing to do with a democratic state. Also the 'hundreds of political prisoners' AND "criminal charging of Ms. Yingluck" together suggests these are comparable aspects of the junta. It would seem those hundreds are more like tens and most in 'self-exile'. same like Snowden who seeks guarantees for a fair process before returning to the USA.

That you and others think the statements of k. Pisan have no credibility is nice, but unsubstanciated.

Furthermore even under a real democracy Ms. Yingluck could be criminally charged, and most likely would ( assuming she ever would have got the chance to get her 'self-financing' scheme started).

So, with the Prayuth government depending on the Ministry of Education bureaucrats just like the previous governments, what can go wrong. At least they don't quote a criminal fugitive's view as being the philosophy to base their policy on. Mind you, who knows if instead of Pol. Lieut-Col it had been Army Lieut-Col ... ... ).

BTW your comparison with people going to a Polanski movie seems a bit obsessed. It's not as if Polanski's past was used as philosophy to explain why people should follow his ideas.

[tbthailand]

Why is democracy ALWAYS assumed to be the BEST form of government....?

Germany 1933 - a democracy that allowed Hitler to come to power. Millions died.

USA 2003 - a democracy that allowed George W. Bush to start a war over false claims. Hundreds of thousands died.

Hitler was never elected. The Myth That Will Not Die. He was appointed.

Try again.

It says "allowed Hitler to come to power". Nowhere did I say "elected".

your implication is that he came to power due to or through democratic means - if that is not what you meant, then...

in any case, it can't be said that is was the democracy in Germany which allowed him to come to power. He circumvented democracy in order to come to power.