Capital punishment concerns raised over Thai backpackers' murder case

[englishoak]

Reprieve are indeed involved acting on behalf of the defence, I am also not spoon feeding the details either.

The block feature helps with the Better call Saul type here who want people to think that Thai law, Thai legal system or even Thai police operate with anything resembling integrity, honesty or fair and due process. It dosnt ... You get in trouble here your very likely to be in deep deep trouble, innocent of not.

Heres another very recent Island murder and typical RTP initial reaction

Thai Teens Arrested for Killing Burmese Man on Koh Samui

SURAT THANI — Three Thai teenagers have been arrested for allegedly killing a 22-year-old Burmese man on the southern island of Koh Samui, despite a police officer's earlier suggestion that the killers must have also been Burmese.

In the wake of the killing, Pol.Col. Sirichai Kertsri, deputy superintendent of Bo Put Police Station, believed and stated Thet was murdered by another Burmese because of their "violent" behavior.

"We believe [the perpetrators] are from Burma, judging from their violent behavior. They like to use violence," Pol.Col. Sirichai said on 27 February.

Theey turned out to be Thai of course.....

The three Thai suspects, said to be 18, 17, and 16 years of age, were arrested on 2 March. According to police, they confessed to stabbing Thet Soe Tar, 23, to death on the night of 27 February http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1425559166&typecate=06&section=

Sound familiar ?

The execution of a local businessman on Samui at a food festival the other day.... Doubt that was Burmese either....

[catsanddogs]

Basicaly if your a Brit in Thailand and get in trouble. Do not expect any help from Britain. It is called diplomacy!

I'm not clear how you reached your conclusion from this article. It states that British police have been helping with the investigation/prosecution of (non-British) individuals accused of murdering British citizens. They are helping British citizens (the families of the deceased) by ensuring that those who committed the crimes see justice. I don't see how you conclude the opposite.

Yes, justice Thai-style: with the prosecution and the full weight of Thai officialdom getting the interviews and forensics from British experts, .....but the defense stuck with nada. If that's justice, then I'm a green frog.

I must have missed a report where any forensic evidence processed in the UK has been turned over to the prosecution. I also must have missed a report where any interviews conducted in the UK were officially turned over to the prosecution.

From the Guardian article

The FCO response said Hampshire, Essex, Hertfordshire and Jersey police had been asked by Thai police to interview Britons who were on Koh Tao with Witheridge and Miller. It added: “We now understand that UK law enforcement colleagues shared the contents of these statements informally with Thai police after they had taken human rights considerations into account.

Although I agree not formally, the question then would be why informally ?

Informally can't be used in court. If it can't be used what harm is there? Other reports say that contact was through Interpol.

So nothing official, and no report regarding forensics that I am aware of.

Pretty hard to make real claims of them working together on this.

Reprieves Beef is they applied to the relevant forces to have the friends interviewed after being told they hadn't been already.

It then turns out actually they had interviewed them despite previous denials. The 4 forces have claimed they done it informally so what they said was factual in their eyes.

Reprieve now want copies of the interviews as the defence had asked for them via Reprieve and their Lawyers in the UK. The UK Police have acted in what some people would describe as underhanded considering the MPS letter sent in December.

Whilst the prosecution have every right to have people interviewed so also do the defence. Its a level playing field as far as the UK is concerned as its not under Thai Jurisdiction.

That's the bottom line in this story. They wanted to use the UK Police to conduct interviews. Now the purpose of all Police forces is to work to prove or disprove a case. Reprieve have no concerns that the statements will reveal any evidence that ties the 2 people they are acting on behalf off. They just want the facts. Like everyone else here. Just the Facts. No cloak and dagger. No withholding important evidence that could prove one way or another.

Reprieve isn't representing the defendants nor are they interested in the guilt or innocence of anyone. They are a pressure group opposed to the death penalty. They work to stop the death penalty regardless of guilt.

WRONG.... 100% wrong.

Reprieve are working for the defence along with their lawyers Leigh Day. They have access to private and confidential information from the Police and coroner. They are the assigned representatives in the UK signed off by Nakhon Chomphuchat .

You don't know who I am by the way.

Can you cite any source stating Reprieve has been employed by the defense?

"You don't know who I am?" correct. All you are to me is an anonymous poster on the Internet.

Could posters please not post their replies within other posts as it makes for difficult reading. Thank you.

[jdinasia]

Thank you EO for showing that Thai people will be caught in cases where the initial thoughts of the police were that the perpetrators were likely Burmese.

[catsanddogs]

Basicaly if your a Brit in Thailand and get in trouble. Do not expect any help from Britain. It is called diplomacy!

I'm not clear how you reached your conclusion from this article. It states that British police have been helping with the investigation/prosecution of (non-British) individuals accused of murdering British citizens. They are helping British citizens (the families of the deceased) by ensuring that those who committed the crimes see justice. I don't see how you conclude the opposite.

Yes, justice Thai-style: with the prosecution and the full weight of Thai officialdom getting the interviews and forensics from British experts, .....but the defense stuck with nada. If that's justice, then I'm a green frog.

I must have missed a report where any forensic evidence processed in the UK has been turned over to the prosecution. I also must have missed a report where any interviews conducted in the UK were officially turned over to the prosecution.

From the Guardian article

The FCO response said Hampshire, Essex, Hertfordshire and Jersey police had been asked by Thai police to interview Britons who were on Koh Tao with Witheridge and Miller. It added: We now understand that UK law enforcement colleagues shared the contents of these statements informally with Thai police after they had taken human rights considerations into account.

Although I agree not formally, the question then would be why informally ?

Informally can't be used in court. If it can't be used what harm is there? Other reports say that contact was through Interpol.

So nothing official, and no report regarding forensics that I am aware of.

Pretty hard to make real claims of them working together on this.

Reprieves Beef is they applied to the relevant forces to have the friends interviewed after being told they hadn't been already.

It then turns out actually they had interviewed them despite previous denials. The 4 forces have claimed they done it informally so what they said was factual in their eyes.

Reprieve now want copies of the interviews as the defence had asked for them via Reprieve and their Lawyers in the UK. The UK Police have acted in what some people would describe as underhanded considering the MPS letter sent in December.

Whilst the prosecution have every right to have people interviewed so also do the defence. Its a level playing field as far as the UK is concerned as its not under Thai Jurisdiction.

That's the bottom line in this story. They wanted to use the UK Police to conduct interviews. Now the purpose of all Police forces is to work to prove or disprove a case. Reprieve have no concerns that the statements will reveal any evidence that ties the 2 people they are acting on behalf off. They just want the facts. Like everyone else here. Just the Facts. No cloak and dagger. No withholding important evidence that could prove one way or another.

Reprieve isn't representing the defendants nor are they interested in the guilt or innocence of anyone. They are a pressure group opposed to the death penalty. They work to stop the death penalty regardless of guilt.

WRONG.... 100% wrong.

Reprieve are working for the defence along with their lawyers Leigh Day. They have access to private and confidential information from the Police and coroner. They are the assigned representatives in the UK signed off by Nakhon Chomphuchat .

You don't know who I am by the way.

Can you cite any source stating Reprieve has been employed by the defense?

"You don't know who I am?" correct. All you are to me is an anonymous poster on the Internet.

I have no need to provide you with anything. Like you i am anonymous. . Lol. If you need any confirmation you can contact Zoe Bedford or Khun Nakhon

i do not need to cite sources for reprieve i have been helping them. So my word is good enough.

Respectfully, you are an anonymous poster on the Internet making a claim I have not seen in print. So, no, your word is not good enough for me. Please provide a citation where it is stated that Reprieve is doing anything other than fulfilling their mandate to fight against the death penalty or I will simply believe what they have written on their website regarding their goals

Please reply with posts so that forum users can read without difficulty.

[jdinasia]

Sorry catsanddogs... It is an issue with the app. I will try not to have more than a few nested quotes in the future

[berybert]

I have never claimed to be the sharpest knife in the box, but tonight I had a thought. Sperm can be frozen and used to produce babies in 10-20 years time.

The rtp claim to have DNA from the sperm that was found in the body of Hannnah. So putting 1and 1 together that means they have the sperm that the DNA comes from.

No need for phones or sunglasses.

[jdinasia]

I have never claimed to be the sharpest knife in the box, but tonight I had a thought. Sperm can be frozen and used to produce babies in 10-20 years time.

The rtp claim to have DNA from the sperm that was found in the body of Hannnah. So putting 1and 1 together that means they have the sperm that the DNA comes from.

No need for phones or sunglasses.

LOL.

I will let someone else point out the timeline issues...

[berybert]

I have never claimed to be the sharpest knife in the box, but tonight I had a thought. Sperm can be frozen and used to produce babies in 10-20 years time.

The rtp claim to have DNA from the sperm that was found in the body of Hannnah. So putting 1and 1 together that means they have the sperm that the DNA comes from.

No need for phones or sunglasses.

LOL.

I will let someone else point out the timeline issues...

The use of LOL or a smiley face renders an argument useless. And I expected more than that from you.

[JLCrab]

Loonodingle - I have never used the term blow a gasket.

I am expressing my opinion. I am not flaming. If you are offended that I don't accept uncited claims as fact, that's on you and not me.

I will stick with what is verifiable.

I was the one who used the term 'blow a gasket' in saying that my only agenda is watching that guy and others blow a gasket after he suggested that I must have an agenda.

[draftvader]

Link to change.org petition removed.

13) You will not post links to other Thailand forums, or forums which could reasonably be construed as competition to Thaivisa.com or its sponsors.

This is not for debate.

[boomerangutang]

Regarding the assertion that the investigation suddenly changed focus after Panya was transferred to BKK (as scheduled) that can clearly be disproven.

October 11, 2014: police chief Somyot Poompanmoung traveled to Ko Tao to take over heading the investigation. He outranked the prior head investigator, Panya, and was likely controlling the investigation for awhile before he put himself (or the PM put him) in charge. Nearly every day prior, official Thai outlets were lamenting how no suspects had been indicted. The most often cited reason was 'problems for tourism revenue, and and the island's image.' (Note: the reason for pressuring investigators to indict, didn't seem to be much concerned with finding justice for the victims & families, nor getting the REAL perpetrators out of the public domain.)

Anyone familiar with Thailand knows everything official is controlled, as much as possible, by officials in Bangkok. You go to any province, and ask a bureaucrat a question which is outside of their finite knowledge base, and they'll immediately say, "you will have to contact the agency in Bangkok to get an answer."

As for evidence: Sure, physical evidence is significant in a crime case, but person to person communication can be relevant. Just using the word 'hearsay' doesn't exclude what a person says. For example, if a woman runs in to a store, all wild-eyed and screams that she just saw a child run over by a car, and she has a description of the driver, that's not just

'hearsay' or rumor. Similarly, if a man confides in another person about having committed a crime, the other person's testimony can be used as evidence in a crime investigation.

There are several men who committed the KT crime, and likely one or more of them told others they're close to. I estimate there are about a dozen people who know for sure who committed the crime. Obviously they're not telling what they know now, ....but hopefully, the veneer will crack and the truth will out. Until then, there are likely several dangerous criminals walking/partying on the island - who could strike again - knowing how easy it is to evade the law. Who will be the next victims?

[Keesters]

Simple. Killing people is wrong.

Death penalty is wrong.

Death penalty = legalized murder.

God help the hangman.

[stephen terry]

Regarding the assertion that the investigation suddenly changed focus after Panya was transferred to BKK (as scheduled) that can clearly be disproven.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe

I will find the report that says only 30 or so of the 200 DNA samples collected had been tested.

Edit --- the 26th

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/763480-killers-of-britons-may-have-fled-koh-tao-police-pin-hopes-on-dna-test-results/

Ah, yes, and here is a contradictory statement:

Early in the investigation 23rd Sept 2014 it was mentioned by one of the leading police officers that evidence had been tampered with:

Pol Maj Gen Kittipong Kaosam-ang, a Surat Thani police commander, asked the media not to report in-depth investigation results, saying it may give some clues to the culprits. But he revealed that Thais may have been involved in the murders and had tried to destroy evidence linking them to the attacks. Some people on Koh Tao had given false information to police in a bid to divert attention. Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

[stephen terry]

Now why would Thais try to destroy evidence linking them to the attacks, and why would some people give false information to the RTP in a bid to divert attention when it is crystal clear that the B2 committed the crimes?

No wonder the RTP team was replaced by another team who discounted the previous evidence and arrested the scapegoats instead. Seems like Pol Maj Gen Kittipong Kaosam-ang is an honest guy. Pity he was eventually outranked...

[JLCrab]

Regarding the assertion that the investigation suddenly changed focus after Panya was transferred to BKK (as scheduled) that can clearly be disproven.

October 11, 2014: police chief Somyot Poompanmoung traveled to Ko Tao to take over heading the investigation. He outranked the prior head investigator, Panya, and was likely controlling the investigation for awhile before he put himself (or the PM put him) in charge. Nearly every day prior, official Thai outlets were lamenting how no suspects had been indicted. The most often cited reason was 'problems for tourism revenue, and and the island's image.' (Note: the reason for pressuring investigators to indict, didn't seem to be much concerned with finding justice for the victims & families, nor getting the REAL perpetrators out of the public domain.)

Anyone familiar with Thailand knows everything official is controlled, as much as possible, by officials in Bangkok. You go to any province, and ask a bureaucrat a question which is outside of their finite knowledge base, and they'll immediately say, "you will have to contact the agency in Bangkok to get an answer."

As for evidence: Sure, physical evidence is significant in a crime case, but person to person communication can be relevant. Just using the word 'hearsay' doesn't exclude what a person says. For example, if a woman runs in to a store, all wild-eyed and screams that she just saw a child run over by a car, and she has a description of the driver, that's not just

'hearsay' or rumor. Similarly, if a man confides in another person about having committed a crime, the other person's testimony can be used as evidence in a crime investigation.

There are several men who committed the KT crime, and likely one or more of them told others they're close to. I estimate there are about a dozen people who know for sure who committed the crime. Obviously they're not telling what they know now, ....but hopefully, the veneer will crack and the truth will out. Until then, there are likely several dangerous criminals walking/partying on the island - who could strike again - knowing how easy it is to evade the law. Who will be the next victims?

So apparently the powers-that-be on the island for the last 6 months have told the resident psychopaths that, if you want to get your murder and rape of blond farang women fix, go do it on some other island.

[jdinasia]

Regarding the assertion that the investigation suddenly changed focus after Panya was transferred to BKK (as scheduled) that can clearly be disproven.

October 11, 2014: police chief Somyot Poompanmoung traveled to Ko Tao to take over heading the investigation. He outranked the prior head investigator, Panya, and was likely controlling the investigation for awhile before he put himself (or the PM put him) in charge. Nearly every day prior, official Thai outlets were lamenting how no suspects had been indicted. The most often cited reason was 'problems for tourism revenue, and and the island's image.' (Note: the reason for pressuring investigators to indict, didn't seem to be much concerned with finding justice for the victims & families, nor getting the REAL perpetrators out of the public domain.)

Anyone familiar with Thailand knows everything official is controlled, as much as possible, by officials in Bangkok. You go to any province, and ask a bureaucrat a question which is outside of their finite knowledge base, and they'll immediately say, "you will have to contact the agency in Bangkok to get an answer."

As for evidence: Sure, physical evidence is significant in a crime case, but person to person communication can be relevant. Just using the word 'hearsay' doesn't exclude what a person says. For example, if a woman runs in to a store, all wild-eyed and screams that she just saw a child run over by a car, and she has a description of the driver, that's not just

'hearsay' or rumor. Similarly, if a man confides in another person about having committed a crime, the other person's testimony can be used as evidence in a crime investigation.

There are several men who committed the KT crime, and likely one or more of them told others they're close to. I estimate there are about a dozen people who know for sure who committed the crime. Obviously they're not telling what they know now, ....but hopefully, the veneer will crack and the truth will out. Until then, there are likely several dangerous criminals walking/partying on the island - who could strike again - knowing how easy it is to evade the law. Who will be the next victims?

You can see from the link I posted that the investigation shifted back to migrant workers before Panya was transferred. He announced the pending arrest of suspects within 3 days before he left. They were arrested 2 days later.

Regarding hearsay. You make up scenarios. The first one you make up, the woman in the store. Only the woman could testify to what she saw. The people in the store could not. The second, a direct confession could be used but the character of the person testifying is open to examination. BTW - under this direct confession scenario the statement to the HRC commissioner is admissible. (I doubt judges will think that the HRC commissioner has a character that is questionable.)

I agree that there are a few other people that the 2 Burmese men involved in the crime after the fact but probably not as many as 12. The guy they handed off the phone to will certainly be called to testify. I have no idea what other witnesses will be called to directly link them to the crime. With the 2 Burmese men in jail it is unlikely that others are wandering around ready to do similar crimes

[AleG]

Nice try. How about the locals?

Answered above.

Actually you don't respond to the assertion that had the locals known who were the killers, e.g, the B2 in this example, they would have been marched into the RTP HQ. I really thought you had more common-sense than to ignore what would have happened in a close-knit community.

One day, you will accept that the B2 have been more than likely set-up for this crime, as do the majority on this forum.

Two Burmese men gave testimony that they received the stolen phone from Miller from the two suspects, which is very damning evidence and pretty much buries your argument that if they were guilty other Burmese would had come forward with testimony.

[happy Joe]

Perhaps one day, AleG and JD, will realise their opinion is in the minority on this forum. Any reasonable person could deduce that it is more probable that the majority's opinion is more realistic. To rely on what the RTP have reported is not backed up by any evidence as to its veracity - it's say-so. What I find intolerable is the total acceptance that the B2 are responsible for this crime without hearing their defence to the RTP's allegations.

As it is totally unacceptable to call them inocent children solely on the principle that many lounge detective believes they don't have heads of murderers.

[jdinasia]

Loonodingle - I have never used the term blow a gasket.

I am expressing my opinion. I am not flaming. If you are offended that I don't accept uncited claims as fact, that's on you and not me.

I will stick with what is verifiable.

I was the one who used the term 'blow a gasket' in saying that my only agenda is watching that guy and others blow a gasket after he suggested that I must have an agenda.

I am aware. Him wrongly accusing me of that just demonstrates how, even with evidence right in front of them, people get things wrong. It follows on with the "everyone knows" concept. Even when presented with direct evidence some people stick to their claims.

[jdinasia]

Now why would Thais try to destroy evidence linking them to the attacks, and why would some people give false information to the RTP in a bid to divert attention when it is crystal clear that the B2 committed the crimes?

No wonder the RTP team was replaced by another team who discounted the previous evidence and arrested the scapegoats instead. Seems like Pol Maj Gen Kittipong Kaosam-ang is an honest guy. Pity he was eventually outranked...

Why? Possibly because they didn't? Perhaps some people wanted suspects other than the 2 Burmese men looked at.

The imminent arrest of the 2 Burmese men was announced prior to Panya going to BKK.

[jdinasia]

Simple. Killing people is wrong.

Death penalty is wrong.

Death penalty = legalized murder.

God help the hangman.

I am not a fan of the death penalty, however it is the law in the kingdom

[AleG]

So far, there has not been any rebuttal about my assertion that had the B2 committed this crime, the locals would have marched them into the RTP HQ. Had they been involved, the Headman would have released the CCTV, Nomsod would not have fled, and the RTP would have had an easy time. If the DNA matched, there would have been independent verification, and the farcical re-enactment would not have occurred.

Such are the draconian defamation laws that I do not accuse anyone, but there are many unanswered questions.

Exactly Stephen well said.

Just an open and transparent case. Those that wish anything less could be conspirators in a cover up.

I know which side of the fence I sit on.

You are the one trying to have potentially incriminating testimony taken on the UK to be withhold, in the name of justice and transparency, apparently.

[Keesters]

when it is crystal clear that the B2 committed the crimes?[/i]

"Crystal clear" If I've learnt anything from reading the many threads about this case is that it is hardly crystal. And what qualifications do you have to make

Such are the draconian defamation laws that I do not accuse anyone, but there are many unanswered questions . Seen all the evidence, participated in the interviews did you. The boys are innocent until proven guilty.

Now I've jus read in your post #99

"Such are the draconian defamation laws that I do not accuse anyone, but there are many unanswered questions"

Confused......

[Keesters]

Simple. Killing people is wrong.

Death penalty is wrong.

Death penalty = legalized murder.

God help the hangman.

I am not a fan of the death penalty, however it is the law in the kingdom

I am quite well aware of that law. Thank you for stating what anybody could find out in just seconds of reading this thread.

[stephen terry]

when it is crystal clear that the B2 committed the crimes?[/i]

"Crystal clear" If I've learnt anything from reading the many threads about this case is that it is hardly crystal. And what qualifications do you have to make

Such are the draconian defamation laws that I do not accuse anyone, but there are many unanswered questions . Seen all the evidence, participated in the interviews did you. The boys are innocent until proven guilty.

Now I've jus read in your post #99

"Such are the draconian defamation laws that I do not accuse anyone, but there are many unanswered questions"

Confused......

The statement I made regarding 'crystal clear' is counterintuitive. Normally, counterintuitive implies that I actually expect an "opposite" scenario to be true. In other words, I was demonstrating that despite evidence to the contrary the B2 are regarded (by a couple of posters on here) as having committed the crimes.

[jdinasia]

when it is crystal clear that the B2 committed the crimes?[/i]

"Crystal clear" If I've learnt anything from reading the many threads about this case is that it is hardly crystal. And what qualifications do you have to make

Such are the draconian defamation laws that I do not accuse anyone, but there are many unanswered questions . Seen all the evidence, participated in the interviews did you. The boys are innocent until proven guilty.

Now I've jus read in your post #99

"Such are the draconian defamation laws that I do not accuse anyone, but there are many unanswered questions"

Confused......

The statement I made regarding 'crystal clear' is counterintuitive. Normally, counterintuitive implies that I actually expect an "opposite" scenario to be true. In other words, I was demonstrating that despite evidence to the contrary the B2 are regarded as having committed the crimes.

We will see if there is evidence of them not having committed the rape and the murders in court. I have not seen any exculpatory evidence.

[stephen terry]

when it is crystal clear that the B2 committed the crimes?[/i]

"Crystal clear" If I've learnt anything from reading the many threads about this case is that it is hardly crystal. And what qualifications do you have to make

Such are the draconian defamation laws that I do not accuse anyone, but there are many unanswered questions . Seen all the evidence, participated in the interviews did you. The boys are innocent until proven guilty.

Now I've jus read in your post #99

"Such are the draconian defamation laws that I do not accuse anyone, but there are many unanswered questions"

Confused......

The statement I made regarding 'crystal clear' is counterintuitive. Normally, counterintuitive implies that I actually expect an "opposite" scenario to be true. In other words, I was demonstrating that despite evidence to the contrary the B2 are regarded as having committed the crimes.

We will see if there is evidence of them not having committed the rape and the murders in court. I have not seen any exculpatory evidence.

I have already explained that they cannot be found guilty of committing David's murder. In the absence of a murder weapon (no David's DNA on the hoe) there is no direct link between them. To be in the vicinity of the crime is not evidence of murder. Therefore, in respect of David's demise, there is no case to answer.

The absence of inculpatory evidence is exculpatory evidence.

Further, if (from the above) they didn't attack David, who did?

[boomerangutang]

So apparently the powers-that-be on the island for the last 6 months have told the resident psychopaths that, if you want to get your murder and rape of blond farang women fix, go do it on some other island.

I assume you're saying that (tongue-in-cheek) because there have been no obvious rapes or murders on the island since September 2014. Criminals behave in strange ways. They don't necessarily commit crimes at a steady pace. Some will commit a heinous crime, and then lay low for months or years - before striking again.

The imminent arrest of the 2 Burmese men was announced prior to Panya going to BKK.

That's true. However, the replacement head cop (police chief Somyot Poompanmoung) outranks the man he replaced (Panya). It's quite possible Somyot, in Bkk with the PM and others (who were fretting each day about loss of tourist revenue) were micro-managing/dictating procedures in little Ko Tao, days or weeks prior to the announced replacement.

Regardless, the bigger issue is there was a semblance of a real investigation in the early stages of the investigation, when investigators were focusing in on the prime suspects (Mon and Nomsod). From the time Panya was considered inept or expendable or 'barking up the wrong tree', onward, RTP has not considered anything which might implicate Mon or Nomsod or any other of the H's people, no matter what clues surface. They're completely off the suspect list, ...one could say 'untouchable.'

Since early November, the B2 has been the sole focus of the investigation, with not a glance toward any others, regardless of; video footage (which RTP say shows either Mon or Nomsod, and they haven't retracted that, since), or a bouncer/regular at AC bar sporting a shark's tooth ring, or the flimsy/contrived alibi video, or the drugged-out speedboat operator sleeping in a cave the night after the murder, ....or....

[Keesters]

when it is crystal clear that the B2 committed the crimes?[/i]

"Crystal clear" If I've learnt anything from reading the many threads about this case is that it is hardly crystal. And what qualifications do you have to make

Such are the draconian defamation laws that I do not accuse anyone, but there are many unanswered questions . Seen all the evidence, participated in the interviews did you. The boys are innocent until proven guilty.

Now I've jus read in your post #99

"Such are the draconian defamation laws that I do not accuse anyone, but there are many unanswered questions"

Confused......

The statement I made regarding 'crystal clear' is counterintuitive. Normally, counterintuitive implies that I actually expect an "opposite" scenario to be true. In other words, I was demonstrating that despite evidence to the contrary the B2 are regarded (by a couple of posters on here) as having committed the crimes.

And how is anybody expected to know that unless you say. Confusing by design.

[JLCrab]

.. Or else maybe there haven't any rapes/murders on KT similar to those SEP 2014 because the perps in that case are in jail on Koh Samui. But wouldn't it be just peachy-keen for the defense and their supporters if there were to be another rape/murder while the 2 Burmese are in custody such that they can say "You see - we told you so!"