Retirement Visa - British national Japanese income

[japanese]

Hi Guys,

I am looking for advice regarding an initial application for a retirement visa.

I am from England but have been living in Japan for 25 years and have Japanese permanent residency (similar to a US green card and not Japanese nationality).

My income is in Japan.

What compliactions does this cause?

Should I be going to the Japanese Embassy to get income verification? Or will I need translations to take to the UK Embassy and would they verify Japanese income?

What would be acceptable as proof of income? My bankbook showing the funds coming in monthly?

Thank you in advance for any guidance.

Tony.

[ubonjoe]

You will need to get the income letter from the UK embassy. If you have a document that confirms your income that would be accepted after it is translated to English. Info on getting the income letter here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-obtain-a-pensionincome-letter-for-thai-immigration

[oma3]

hi u can use your japanese proof income,translated in english,THEN,certified by THAI EMBASSY IN JAPAN. D ont forget police report from Japan.

[mahjongguy]

It's not clear. If OP is in Thailand now, he needs advice on obtaining a retirement extension, not an O-A.

[KittenKong]

Confusion between retirement visas and retirement extensions happens daily and is very boring for all concerned.

Why isn't there a pinned topic just explaining this?

[charliebadenhop]

I lived in Japan for 30 years, and get retirement benefits from the J. government.

What I have been told by Bangkok Bank is that I need to get a direct deposit account in a Japanese bank here in Thailand, and that will suffice as "proof".

I cannot 100% verify this, but the bank said the same for the small amount of social security I get from the US government.

What I was told when I went back to Japan recently, is that the J. government will only do direct deposit with a Japanese bank here in Thailand, So for instance, they would not allow me to create a direct deposit account with Bangkok Bank.

I would love to know more!

[Liquorice]

KittenKong, on 05 Mar 2015 - 06:07, said:KittenKong, on 05 Mar 2015 - 06:07, said:

Confusion between retirement visas and retirement extensions happens daily and is very boring for all concerned.

Why isn't there a pinned topic just explaining this?

There is no 'Retirement Visa' offered by the Thailand government.

The confusion comes from the Thai Embassies in other Countries, USA in particular where they describe the O-A as a long term (retirement) Visa.

In effect a Non Imm O or O-A Visa are usually sought for the purpose of retirement in Thailand, but they are not 'Retirement Visas', they are Non Imm Visas which can be converted to an 'extension of stay' permit.

The Non Imm Visas have an expiry date after which they are dead. You actually extended your 90 day permission to stay in Thailand by way of 90 day reports for the 12 month period of the extension . You are not extending the old Non Imm Visa as many seem to think.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Faz

[unended]

I am in a similar position : receive a pension from Japan, reside in Thailand and hold a passport of a third country.

To obtain a retirement visa and subsequent extensions, you need to get the income certification from the embassy of the country of which you are a national. Certification by the country from which you derive the income is not acceptable.

Further, be aware that Immigration is now at times refusing to grant retirement visas on the basis of letters of income and require instead -- the current applicable rule on the matter notwithstanding -- proof of THB 80K deposit in a bank in Thailand ( note that shares, bonds etc are not acceptable ) for three months prior to the extension date ( or two months in case of first retirement visa application ).

[nzexpat]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I am in a similar position : receive a pension from Japan, reside in Thailand and hold a passport of a third country.

To obtain a retirement visa and subsequent extensions, you need to get the income certification from the embassy of the country of which you are a national. Certification by the country from which you derive the income is not acceptable.

Further, be aware that Immigration is now at times refusing to grant retirement visas on the basis of letters of income and require instead -- the current applicable rule on the matter notwithstanding -- proof of THB 80K deposit in a bank in Thailand ( note that shares, bonds etc are not acceptable ) for three months prior to the extension date ( or two months in case of first retirement visa application ).

Regarding that final paragraph

Are you speaking from personal experience or just repeating unfounded rumour ?

[unended]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I am in a similar position : receive a pension from Japan, reside in Thailand and hold a passport of a third country.

To obtain a retirement visa and subsequent extensions, you need to get the income certification from the embassy of the country of which you are a national. Certification by the country from which you derive the income is not acceptable.

Further, be aware that Immigration is now at times refusing to grant retirement visas on the basis of letters of income and require instead -- the current applicable rule on the matter notwithstanding -- proof of THB 80K deposit in a bank in Thailand ( note that shares, bonds etc are not acceptable ) for three months prior to the extension date ( or two months in case of first retirement visa application ).

Regarding that final paragraph

Are you speaking from personal experience or just repeating unfounded rumour ?

The statement made is based on utterances and evidence gathered at the Immigration Office itself.

[nzexpat]

"The statement made is based on utterances and evidence gathered at the Immigration Office itself"

Which immigration Office?

What is the "evidence" ?

Who made the "utterances. ?

Are you speaking from personal experience?

[Moonlover]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I am in a similar position : receive a pension from Japan, reside in Thailand and hold a passport of a third country.

To obtain a retirement visa and subsequent extensions, you need to get the income certification from the embassy of the country of which you are a national. Certification by the country from which you derive the income is not acceptable.

Further, be aware that Immigration is now at times refusing to grant retirement visas on the basis of letters of income and require instead -- the current applicable rule on the matter notwithstanding -- proof of THB 80K deposit in a bank in Thailand ( note that shares, bonds etc are not acceptable ) for three months prior to the extension date ( or two months in case of first retirement visa application ).

Regarding that final paragraph

Are you speaking from personal experience or just repeating unfounded rumour ?

The statement made is based on utterances and evidence gathered at the Immigration Office itself.

In other words, unfounded rumour!

Unended, on matters as important as this, I think members of this forum would like to see something a little more substantial than 'hearsay utterances from persons unknown'. Don't you think?

[OJAS]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I am in a similar position : receive a pension from Japan, reside in Thailand and hold a passport of a third country.

To obtain a retirement visa and subsequent extensions, you need to get the income certification from the embassy of the country of which you are a national. Certification by the country from which you derive the income is not acceptable.

Further, be aware that Immigration is now at times refusing to grant retirement visas on the basis of letters of income and require instead -- the current applicable rule on the matter notwithstanding -- proof of THB 80K deposit in a bank in Thailand ( note that shares, bonds etc are not acceptable ) for three months prior to the extension date ( or two months in case of first retirement visa application ).

Regarding that final paragraph

Are you speaking from personal experience or just repeating unfounded rumour ?

The statement made is based on utterances and evidence gathered at the Immigration Office itself.

So is it really the case that, on the basis of the "utterances and evidence" which you have gathered, only proof of 80,000 THB deposited in a Thai bank is now required for a retirement extension of stay (a.k.a. in certain misguided quarters as a "retirement visa")?

[KittenKong]

KittenKong, on 05 Mar 2015 - 06:07, said:KittenKong, on 05 Mar 2015 - 06:07, said:

Confusion between retirement visas and retirement extensions happens daily and is very boring for all concerned.

Why isn't there a pinned topic just explaining this?

There is no 'Retirement Visa' offered by the Thailand government.

The confusion comes from the Thai Embassies in other Countries, USA in particular where they describe the O-A as a long term (retirement) Visa.

In effect a Non Imm O or O-A Visa are usually sought for the purpose of retirement in Thailand, but they are not 'Retirement Visas', they are Non Imm Visas which can be converted to an 'extension of stay' permit.

The Non Imm Visas have an expiry date after which they are dead. You actually extended your 90 day permission to stay in Thailand by way of 90 day reports for the 12 month period of the extension . You are not extending the old Non Imm Visa as many seem to think.

I know exactly what a retirement extension is; I have one. And I'm not at all confused.

However huge numbers of other people posting on here get confused by the difference between extensions and visas, notably the retirement ones.

Hence my suggestion that a short explanation be pinned. This might avoid the same explanation being given day after day after day.

[unended]

Further clarification on letters of income for retirement permit extensions seems to be called for.

Neither Thai banks deposit certificates of at least THB 800K for three months prior to renewal date, nor letters of pension income -- as long as such pension income covers the whole required minimum statutory set amount -- from embassies of the countries of which the applicant is a citizen, are the issue here.

Rather, it is embassy letters certifying non-pension income -- for the entire said required minimum amount or for an amount that tops up the pension so that the minimum statutory set amount is reached -- that are now being increasingly challenged by Immigration despite such income letters having followed due procedure. In this respect, there are people who have been simply refused the retirement extension while others have been told -- and made sign documents that had already been prepared by Immigration to such effect for the applicant to acknowledge the condition -- that next extension will only be granted on production of a certificate of a THB 800 K Thai bank deposit.

[paz]

hi u can use your japanese proof income,translated in english,THEN,certified by THAI EMBASSY IN JAPAN. D ont forget police report from Japan.

No certification is needed by the Thai embassy. A notary public or bank officer stamp can be used.

This being said, the Thai embassy in Japan is know to be very difficult toward non-Japanase and i would not be surprised to know that were to raise difficulties making virtually impossible for the OP to obtain an O/A visa there.

Edited March 5, 2015 by paz

[nzexpat]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Further clarification on letters of income for retirement permit extensions seems to be called for.

Neither Thai banks deposit certificates of at least THB 800K for three months prior to renewal date, nor letters of pension income -- as long as such pension income covers the whole required minimum statutory set amount -- from embassies of the countries of which the applicant is a citizen, are the issue here.

Rather, it is embassy letters certifying non-pension income -- for the entire said required minimum amount or for an amount that tops up the pension so that the minimum statutory set amount is reached -- that are now being increasingly challenged by Immigration despite such income letters having followed due procedure. In this respect, there are people who have been simply refused the retirement extension while others have been told -- and made sign documents that had already been prepared by Immigration to such effect for the applicant to acknowledge the condition -- that next extension will only be granted on production of a certificate of a THB 800 K Thai bank deposit.

Again I would ask for evidence for what you say/claim.

Some Embassies will not provide a letter unless income can be proved to their satisfaction.

Those who rely on a sworn affidavit relating to their income must also accept the responsibility for providing evidence of that income if an Immigration Officer requests such proof. Inability to prove income can and, most likely, will result in an entension of stay being refused

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post and the replies to it.

[japanese]

Thank you for the replies so far.

I am here in Thailand but not quite 50 yet.

I will be back in Japan soon and will try to get organised.

So it seems:

1. I need to enter on a non-immigrant O-A visa from the Thai Embassy in Tokyo.*

2. Have my income certified (perhaps I can do that at the Uk Embassy in Japan).

3. Apply for the 'income confirmation letter' at the UK Embassy in Bangkok.

4. Apply at immigration for retirement status.

Does that seem correct?

*I read i would need a police report. Is this to obtain the non-immigrant O-A visa?

*I have also read that it is possible to come on a 30 day visa waiver and change to a non-immgrant O-A visa with retirment status at immigration in Thailand. Correct?

Many thanks,

Tony.

Edited March 10, 2015 by japanese

[japanese]

Well, reading the Thai Embassy Tokyo website it seems I should submit a certificate showing a Japanese pension (or lump sum).

Really I do not want to go the lump sum route, but my income is not derived from a pension.

So if there is a way to apply from inside Thailand after arrival on a visa waiver, and confirming my monthly income through the UK Embassy, thereby getting the O visa with one year retirement status, that would be best.

Does such a way exist?

(I am aware of services helping with the 'lump sum' method).

Many thanks,

Tony.

[nzexpat]

You will have to secure the "income letter" from the British Embassy in Bangkok. Any source of income can be used providing the source can be evidenced

No police report is needed.

Theoretically possible to convert from a "visa exempt" entry to a "NON O" but a hassle which can be avoided by securing a "Non O" visa prior to entry.

Stay well away from "services" which offer "assistance" with proving lump sums.!

Edited March 10, 2015 by nzexpat

[ubonjoe]

Thank you for the replies so far.

I am here in Thailand but not quite 50 yet.

I will be back in Japan soon and will try to get organised.

So it seems:

1. I need to enter on a non-immigrant O-A visa from the Thai Embassy in Tokyo.*

2. Have my income certified (perhaps I can do that at the Uk Embassy in Japan).

3. Apply for the 'income confirmation letter' at the UK Embassy in Bangkok.

4. Apply at immigration for retirement status.

Does that seem correct?

*I read i would need a police report. Is this to obtain the non-immigrant O-A visa?

*I have also read that it is possible to come on a 30 day visa waiver and change to a non-immgrant O-A visa with retirment status at immigration in Thailand. Correct?

Many thanks,

Tony.

1. A OA visa requires a medical certificate, criminal back ground check and proof of income to apply for it at the embassy in Japan. It would be a multiple entry non-oa visa that gives unlimited 1 year entries for a year and can give a total stay of almost 2 years before needing a new visa or extension of stay.

Requirements are here on embassy website: http://www.thaiembassy.jp/rte2/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=605:non-immigrant-o-a-longstay&catid=41:type-of-visa&Itemid=59

If you want to apply for an extension of stay here you would get a single entry non-o visa if possible. If not you could get a single entry tourist visa and do a change of visa status to get a 90 day non immigrant visa entry at Bangkok immigration.

2. That would not be needed. Just have your income proof translated to English and get number 3 on your list.

4. You would apply for the extension during the last day 30 days of the 90 day entry you get from the non-o visa or the change of visa status.

[charliebadenhop]

Hi all,

I posted a reply awhile ago and I see now that somehow it did not get published so here I go again.

There are Non-Imm O visas and Non-Imm O-A visas.

There is no such thing as a Retirement visa, only extensions for reason of retirement.

That is good to FINALLY get clear on, so thanks for that.

Next-

Let's see what I can further sort out.

As someone older than 50 years old, but no spouse, or other "special" situations like being a coach, I believe an O-A is my only clear choice when I want to get a Retirement Extension.

Is that correct?

I ask because, I am going back to Japan where I lived for a long time as a US citizen, but I will have all the various pieces together to apply in April, and I would HATE to have to go back to Japan again simply to apply for an O-A visa. I am currently living in Thailand on an ED visa.

No police report needed by me, is what I think I read, and yet...

On the Thailand Forum here it says-

1.3 Having no criminal record in Thailand and the country of the applicant’s nationality or residence.

– A letter of verification issued from the country of his or her nationality or residence stating that the applicant has no criminal record (verification shall be valid for not more than three months and should be notarised by notary organs or the applicant’s diplomatic or consular mission).

??? But yet no report needed? Is the Thai Visa page here out of date?

1.4 Having the nationality of or residence in the country where applicant’s application is submitted.

So no choice for me, I either have to apply in the US or Japan?

2. Required Documents

-A copy of bank statement showing a deposit of the amount equal to and not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthly income totalling not less than 800,000 Baht.

//

This one is confusing!

I thought I needed to show money in a THAI bank. No?

If needing to apply in the US or Japan, how is this handled?


– A medical certificate issued from the country where the application is submitted, showing no prohibitive diseases as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No.14 (B.E. 2535) (certificate shall be valid for not more than three months and should be notarised by notary organs or the applicant’s diplomatic or consular mission).

Even though I am living in Thailand, is a medical certificate from a Thai doctor not good enough?

With no medical insurance any longer in Japan it would likely cost me a good deal to get a check-up there.

3. Channels to submit application

Thai Visa site says-
Applicant may submit their application at the Royal Thai embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General in their home/residence country or at the Office of the Immigration Bureau in Thailand located on Soi Suan Plu, South Sathorn Road, Sathorn District, Bangkok 10120. Tel 0-2287-4948 (direct) or 0-2287-3101 – 10 ext. 2236. Or applicant must submit their application at their local Immigration office.

//

This is also confusing as it seems to say I can apply in Bangkok or the area I live in?!

What is the deal?

Please excuse me if I am appearing to be brain dead!!

:-)

[paz]

Hi all,

I posted a reply awhile ago and I see now that somehow it did not get published so here I go again.

...

Please, can you check and post into ANY of the many running threads about "retirement extension" ? The fact that you had lived in Japan is not relevant at all to your current situation, and in no case you need anything related to Japan.

In short, your first step is to either go get a non-imm 'O' visa in a nearby country, or obtain it by conversion. At this time it's unclear if this is doable a the main immigration offices, or only in Bangkok.

Edited March 27, 2015 by paz

[charliebadenhop]

Hi Paz.

Is this thread not about retirement "extensions"?

I posted in this thread before, and wanted to carry on here.

You mention a Non-imm O visa and I don't see how I could qualify for that.

[ubonjoe]

You qualify for a non-o visa since you are 50 or over. The problem is that embassies and official consulates will only do a OA visa for those who are citizens or legal residents of the country where they are located.

You can do a conversion to a non immigrant visa at immigration in Bangkok based upon qualifying for an extension of stay based upon retirement.

You could also get a single entry non-o visa in Vientiane or Penang.

You would just need to show 800k baht in a Thai bank or proof of 65k baht by way of an income letter or a combination of the 2 totaling 800k baht to do the conversion at immigration or to get the single entry non-o visa.

Then you could apply for the extension of stay based upon retirement during the last 30 days of the 90 day entry you would get.

[Maestro]

Hi Paz.

Is this thread not about retirement "extensions"?

I posted in this thread before, and wanted to carry on here.

You mention a Non-imm O visa and I don't see how I could qualify for that.

No, this topic is not about retirement extension. The title mentions retirement visa. From his first post it was deduced that he needs a non-O visa.

[charliebadenhop]

Hi Joe,

I went to this link on the Thai Visa site

http://www.thaivisa.com/non-imm-o.html

Maybe I missed it, but I did not see mention of someone who is over 50. The info on the link seems to point towards specific circumstances such as being a parent, or a coach, etc.

I am not doubting your knowledge, it would just be great to read someplace that showed the "O" was for me, and the specific requirements.

My situation is this-

Going to Japan in early May, and I have permanent residence status there.

So I could apply for a visa, BUT I will not be able to have B800,000 in the bank by then.

What I would really prefer, is that I did not have to leave the country again soon after returning here in May.

You wrote the following Joe-

You can do a conversion to a non immigrant visa at immigration in Bangkok based upon qualifying for an extension of stay based upon retirement.

//

Are you saying I could convert my ED visa into a non imm O or OA in Bangkok?

As you well know, there are MANY rumors here in Thailand.

In the last couple of weeks I met three different farong here in Chiang Rai where I live, who claim that they converted either a tourist visa or an ED visa, and or a Spouse visa into a retirement extension, by going to the Immigration Office in Chiang Rai. Could that be possible or is it just some form of rumor?

My ED visa is up on Aug. 19th of this year, and I CAN manage to have enough money in my account here by June 19. Just wanting to then take the simplest path forward to getting a visa that allows for a retirement extension.

TIA!

Charlie

[ubonjoe]

That page you found is out of date to say the least.

From MFA website. http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15398-Issuance-of-Visa.html

"- other activities (Category "O") as follows:

to stay with the family, to perfrom duties for the state enterprise or social welfare organizations, to stay after retirement for the elderly, to receive medical treatment, to be a sport coach as required by Thai Government, to be a contestant or witness for the judicial process."

You have a bit of a catch 22 situation in Japan to apply for a non-o visa. First they will not issue you a visa unless you are a citizen or resident of Japan. Second since you are a resident they will not issue you a non-o visa because of that and will only do the OA visa.

I assume you have an extension of stay you got from immigration which is not a visa or are you leaving the country every 90 days because you have a multiple entry non-ed visa.

If you have an extension of stay you could possibly change the reason for your extension from attending school to retirement. You would need to meet the financial requirements for the extension on the date you do the change. To do this you would need a letter from your school stating the date you are no longer attending classes and do the change on that date. You would have to check wit your local immigration office to see if they will do it.

If you have a non-ed visa you could apply for an extension based upon retirement during the last 30 days of any of your 90 entries. All that is needed to apply for the extension is a non immigrant visa.

You cannot change from one non immigrant visa class to another. It is possible to change from a visa exempt or tourist visa entry to a non immigrant visa at Bangkok immigration only now. It can no longer be done at Chiang Rai immigration.

[charliebadenhop]

Hi Joe,

We are creeping towards the finish line! Thanks so much.

You wrote-

You have a bit of a catch 22 situation in Japan to apply for a non-o visa. First they will not issue you a visa unless you are a citizen or resident of Japan. Second since you are a resident they will not issue you a non-o visa because of that and will only do the OA visa.

//

Charlie asks-

And to get an OA while in Japan I would need to show money in a Thai bank in Thailand?

Joe asked:

I assume you have an extension of stay you got from immigration which is not a visa or are you leaving the country every 90 days because you have a multiple entry non-ed visa.

I am on an ED visa, with an extension.

Charlie replies-

I have to leave in April because I have some business to attend to.

Joe writes again-

If you have an extension of stay you could possibly change the reason for your extension from attending school to retirement. You would need to meet the financial requirements for the extension on the date you do the change. To do this you would need a letter from your school stating the date you are no longer attending classes and do the change on that date. You would have to check wit your local immigration office to see if they will do it.

//

Charlie replies:

This could be excellent if possible.

A couple of questions please.

1. I would NOT need to have the money in an account two months prior to the change? (IF the change is possible)

If so, this would be perfect.

My ED extension ends on Aug. 19, and I could easily have money in my account prior to that.

2. A bit confused still! :-)

You wrote "You cannot change from one non immigrant visa class to another."

Am I correct in thinking that the ED visa is a Non-Imm ED visa, and then you get extensions?

How can I change over to O or OA if indeed a person cannot change from one non-imm class to another?

Again, thanks so much for your kindness!

Regards,

Charlie