Immigration targeting ED holders 5000 baht fee for 90 days

[Kitsune]

We all know that if the student would go alone to immigration he would not get 3 months regardless of his thai skills or attendance,and that his only way to get 3 months was to pay that bribe, yes it's a BRIBE.

More exactly for someone that is studying, having to pay extra is an extortion (concussion).

Bribing is when paying to obtain something you could not get otherwise.

In both cases the officer commits a crime, but only in the second case the person who pays does too.

The student would not obtain his 3 months without the BRIBE.

Can we stop beating around the bush?

Edited March 9, 2015 by Kitsune

[paz]

The student would not obtain his 3 months without the BRIBE.

Can we stop beating around the bush?

I was explaining the difference between bribing and extortion. If you are not interested to know, fine with me, but maybe others are.

Edited March 9, 2015 by paz

[nzexpat]

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The student would not obtain his 3 months without the BRIBE.

Can we stop beating around the bush?

I was explaining the difference between bribing and extortion. If you are not interested to know, fine with me, but maybe others are.

And !

Still no "evidence" of monies actually being paid to anyone other that school staff /owners

[paz]

Still no "evidence" of monies actually being paid to anyone other that school staff /owners

Just read back some 20 postings to read yourself protesting the same about 5 times, and being explained why, each time.

[nzexpat]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Still no "evidence" of monies actually being paid to anyone other that school staff /owners

Just read back some 20 postings to read yourself protesting the same about 5 times, and being explained why, each time.

It needs repeating !

Still no "evidence" of monies actually being paid to anyone other than school staff /owners!

Let me subtly alter the question .

Where is the evidence that "schools" are actually "paying " immigration for extensions of stay ?

[paz]

Where is the evidence that "schools" are actually "paying " immigration for extensions of stay ?

The fact that when students go by themselves, they get under approval stamps, shorter extensions, and hassling treatment.

Or you think that officers give schools a better treatment for reasons of sympathy,

Edited March 9, 2015 by paz

[nzexpat]

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Where is the evidence that "schools" are actually "paying " immigration for extensions of stay ?

The fact that when students go by themselves, they get under approval stamps, shorter extensions, and hassling treatment.

Or you think that officers give schools a better treatment for reasons of sympathy,

Is that evidence of payment ?

Phuket "cracked down" on the ED racket long ago by providing 30 day "under consideration" stamps thus facilitating investigation of the "school" and the "student" !

[paz]

Is that evidence of payment ?

As mentioned before about 9 times

Corrupt officers may be greedy but not stupid. They do not take money from foreigner's hands. It's a system, call it mafia if you want.

[Kitsune]

I am sorry to announce that after many schools in BKK and Pattaya, my BKK school too has finally been targeted by corruption.

No I do not have any proof, just what my school told me.

The only way now to get 3 months is to pay 4.900 THB to the school and they deal with it, otherwise it's 2 months or less.

When I asked how did that happened, the assistant told me that recently loads of students complained they were being harassed by immigration making them stay all day long and having even to come back the next day, spending a total of 2 DAYS for an extension for finally being given one month or less for no apparent reason.

Having heard about these dreadful reports the school director called immigration office to ask what was going on, he was then told that from now,if our school students wanted 3 months it would cost 4.900 THB, instead of 1,900 THB.

For the moment everyone has refused to pay 4.900 THB and is hoping to get 2 months.

[nzexpat]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I am sorry to announce that after many schools in BKK and Pattaya, my BKK school too has finally been targeted by corruption.

No I do not have any proof, just what my school told me.

The only way now to get 3 months is to pay 4.900 THB to the school and they deal with it, otherwise it's 2 months or less.

When I asked how did that happened, the assistant told me that recently loads of students complained they were being harassed by immigration making them stay all day long and having even to come back the next day, spending a total of 2 DAYS for an extension for finally being given one month or less for no apparent reason.

Having heard about these dreadful reports the school director called immigration office to ask what was going on, he was then told that from now,if our school students wanted 3 months it would cost 4.900 THB, instead of 1,900 THB.

For the moment everyone has refused to pay 4.900 THB and is hoping to get 2 months.

Only 4.900 sounds like a bargain !

Which school is saying this ?

Who is to be paid the alleged 4.900?

[Maestro]

...

For the moment everyone has refused to pay 4.900 THB and is hoping to get 2 months.

With the above procedure, the applicant for the extension, ie the student, who refuses to pay more than 1,900 Baht is playing it by the book, and if he applies for a 90-day extension as per rule 2.9 but is given a shorter period, the immigration officer is in fact denying the extension as applied for. In such case, the student has the option of either accepting the reduced period of extension or appealing his case to the chief of immigration of that office.

True, the rules say the extension is "for no more than 90 days", but they do not stipulate different levels of qualification for different periods of extension. Either the applicant fully qualifies for the extension for which he has applied, in which case the application must be approved, or he does not qualify fully, in which case the application must be denied under paragraph 4 of the rules:

4. In case where an applying alien does not meet the full qualification stipulated by the criteria herein, the alien must be notified of the non-permission order and must depart from the Kingdom within seven days from the date on which the permitted period has lapsed.

This puts the student in the awkward situation where he has to decide to take the risk of having his application denied or, at the immigration officer's prompting, modify his application to be for a shorter extension period.

It is unfortunate that the Immigration Bureau does not have a simple procedure in place to appeal against denied extension. As I see it, the only legal recourse would be to file a suit against the immigration officer in question for dereliction of duty or abuse of power or something like that. Neither practical nor cost-effective, I should think.

[ubonjoe]

I have removed a abusive and off topic post plus replies to it.

[Kitsune]

...

For the moment everyone has refused to pay 4.900 THB and is hoping to get 2 months.

With the above procedure, the applicant for the extension, ie the student, who refuses to pay more than 1,900 Baht is playing it by the book, and if he applies for a 90-day extension as per rule 2.9 but is given a shorter period, the immigration officer is in fact denying the extension as applied for. In such case, the student has the option of either accepting the reduced period of extension or appealing his case to the chief of immigration of that office.

True, the rules say the extension is "for no more than 90 days", but they do not stipulate different levels of qualification for different periods of extension. Either the applicant fully qualifies for the extension for which he has applied, in which case the application must be approved, or he does not qualify fully, in which case the application must be denied under paragraph 4 of the rules:

4. In case where an applying alien does not meet the full qualification stipulated by the criteria herein, the alien must be notified of the non-permission order and must depart from the Kingdom within seven days from the date on which the permitted period has lapsed.

This puts the student in the awkward situation where he has to decide to take the risk of having his application denied or, at the immigration officer's prompting, modify his application to be for a shorter extension period.

It is unfortunate that the Immigration Bureau does not have a simple procedure in place to appeal against denied extension. As I see it, the only legal recourse would be to file a suit against the immigration officer in question for dereliction of duty or abuse of power or something like that. Neither practical nor cost-effective, I should think.

Thank you for pointing that out

But this is what's on paper, in reality, they make their own rules up.

At CW immigration office in the ED visa section, there are posters explaining in big letters that there are now no more appeals possible to the IO's decision regarding ED visa. I will take a picture next time I'm there...It's probably not legal like the papers we have to sign about overstay.

Who is going to tell an immigration officer it is not right?

No one.

[inbangkok]

...

For the moment everyone has refused to pay 4.900 THB and is hoping to get 2 months.

With the above procedure, the applicant for the extension, ie the student, who refuses to pay more than 1,900 Baht is playing it by the book, and if he applies for a 90-day extension as per rule 2.9 but is given a shorter period, the immigration officer is in fact denying the extension as applied for. In such case, the student has the option of either accepting the reduced period of extension or appealing his case to the chief of immigration of that office.

True, the rules say the extension is "for no more than 90 days", but they do not stipulate different levels of qualification for different periods of extension. Either the applicant fully qualifies for the extension for which he has applied, in which case the application must be approved, or he does not qualify fully, in which case the application must be denied under paragraph 4 of the rules:

4. In case where an applying alien does not meet the full qualification stipulated by the criteria herein, the alien must be notified of the non-permission order and must depart from the Kingdom within seven days from the date on which the permitted period has lapsed.

This puts the student in the awkward situation where he has to decide to take the risk of having his application denied or, at the immigration officer's prompting, modify his application to be for a shorter extension period.

It is unfortunate that the Immigration Bureau does not have a simple procedure in place to appeal against denied extension. As I see it, the only legal recourse would be to file a suit against the immigration officer in question for dereliction of duty or abuse of power or something like that. Neither practical nor cost-effective, I should think.

Thank you for pointing that out

But this is what's on paper, in reality, they make their own rules up.

At CW immigration office in the ED visa section, there are posters explaining in big letters that there are now no more appeals possible to the IO's decision regarding ED visa. I will take a picture next time I'm there...It's probably not legal like the papers we have to sign about overstay.

Who is going to tell an immigration officer it is not right?

No one.

Thanks for sharing that. I was there about 6 weeks ago and did not see the sign..... Must be a recent addition.

It's funny, because as sign like this would not even be necessary if the original officer simply shows a tiny amount of respect to the student and at least attempts to answer when asked "why only 2 months". From what I witnessed, they generally ignore you.

If the original officer would have answered me, I would not have attempted to ask another. But then again, we know there are no actual answers to things like this because they make it up as they go along.

Edited March 10, 2015 by inbangkok

[itsuptome]

...

For the moment everyone has refused to pay 4.900 THB and is hoping to get 2 months.

With the above procedure, the applicant for the extension, ie the student, who refuses to pay more than 1,900 Baht is playing it by the book, and if he applies for a 90-day extension as per rule 2.9 but is given a shorter period, the immigration officer is in fact denying the extension as applied for. In such case, the student has the option of either accepting the reduced period of extension or appealing his case to the chief of immigration of that office.

True, the rules say the extension is "for no more than 90 days", but they do not stipulate different levels of qualification for different periods of extension. Either the applicant fully qualifies for the extension for which he has applied, in which case the application must be approved, or he does not qualify fully, in which case the application must be denied under paragraph 4 of the rules:

4. In case where an applying alien does not meet the full qualification stipulated by the criteria herein, the alien must be notified of the non-permission order and must depart from the Kingdom within seven days from the date on which the permitted period has lapsed.

This puts the student in the awkward situation where he has to decide to take the risk of having his application denied or, at the immigration officer's prompting, modify his application to be for a shorter extension period.

It is unfortunate that the Immigration Bureau does not have a simple procedure in place to appeal against denied extension. As I see it, the only legal recourse would be to file a suit against the immigration officer in question for dereliction of duty or abuse of power or something like that. Neither practical nor cost-effective, I should think.

This raises the question which is really at the heart of this whole issue: for an extension of stay based on a non-ED sponsored by a non-formal language school, what exactly are the "qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein?"

Are these written down somewhere? Have they been communicated clearly at any point by Immigration to anyone?

Are there different qualifications for extensions of different durations?

Based on reports by students who apply for extensions, there don't seem to be any clear criteria (Thai language proficiency? attendance? people have reported Immigration ignoring both of these factors when deciding whether to grant an extension).

I don't see anything in the police order which suggests that Immigration has the authority to grant a shorter extension than requested because they don't like a school. The order states that the alien has to meet certain stipulated criteria. The criteria don't appear to have been stipulated as required by law.

We need to know what the criteria are and in my view this should be addressed like you address anything with any bureaucracy -- you ask for clarification of the rules, and if you don't get it you escalate up the chain until you find the person who can answer your question.

If the criteria are not currently known then I think a school is more likely to be successful at getting them clarified than an individual student.

I definitely would not go do this at the same time I was trying to get an extension approved, that's just asking for trouble.

I don't really care what criteria they set. If they want to start requiring 10 trillion baht in a Thai bank account and a bucket of KFC for the section boss at Chaeng Wattana, they can go right ahead, and people will make decisions about their presence in Thailand accordingly. But the criteria, whatever they are, need to be published.

[tropo]

I am sorry to announce that after many schools in BKK and Pattaya, my BKK school too has finally been targeted by corruption.

No I do not have any proof, just what my school told me.

The only way now to get 3 months is to pay 4.900 THB to the school and they deal with it, otherwise it's 2 months or less.

When I asked how did that happened, the assistant told me that recently loads of students complained they were being harassed by immigration making them stay all day long and having even to come back the next day, spending a total of 2 DAYS for an extension for finally being given one month or less for no apparent reason.

Having heard about these dreadful reports the school director called immigration office to ask what was going on, he was then told that from now,if our school students wanted 3 months it would cost 4.900 THB, instead of 1,900 THB.

For the moment everyone has refused to pay 4.900 THB and is hoping to get 2 months.

It works really well this way. There's no direct (corrupt) payments to Immigration. The school acts as middlemen with great incentive to play along as it keeps them in business. Immigration inconvenience individual applicants to such a degree that they are "enticed" to pay the 4,900 to the school instead.

Where is MacWalen when you need him? I'm surprised he hasn't weighed in here.

[Kitsune]

This raises the question which is really at the heart of this whole issue: for an extension of stay based on a non-ED sponsored by a non-formal language school, what exactly are the "qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein?"

Are these written down somewhere? Have they been communicated clearly at any point by Immigration to anyone?

Are there different qualifications for extensions of different durations?

Based on reports by students who apply for extensions, there don't seem to be any clear criteria (Thai language proficiency? attendance? people have reported Immigration ignoring both of these factors when deciding whether to grant an extension).

I don't see anything in the police order which suggests that Immigration has the authority to grant a shorter extension than requested because they don't like a school. The order states that the alien has to meet certain stipulated criteria. The criteria don't appear to have been stipulated as required by law.

We need to know what the criteria are and in my view this should be addressed like you address anything with any bureaucracy -- you ask for clarification of the rules, and if you don't get it you escalate up the chain until you find the person who can answer your question.

If the criteria are not currently known then I think a school is more likely to be successful at getting them clarified than an individual student.

I definitely would not go do this at the same time I was trying to get an extension approved, that's just asking for trouble.

I don't really care what criteria they set. If they want to start requiring 10 trillion baht in a Thai bank account and a bucket of KFC for the section boss at Chaeng Wattana, they can go right ahead, and people will make decisions about their presence in Thailand accordingly. But the criteria, whatever they are, need to be published.

According to the student I spoke to, he said he did speak Thai (and he's fluent) and wrote all his application papers in Thai but the officer did not seem to care at all. It was 2 months "because that's what our school gets now", nothing to be done.

We don't get to chose when to go to immigration to extend, when our visa runs out we have to go.

There are no criteria just made up excuses (you get 2 months because that's what your school gets) and appeal is not welcomed.

[Kitsune]

I am sorry to announce that after many schools in BKK and Pattaya, my BKK school too has finally been targeted by corruption.

No I do not have any proof, just what my school told me.

The only way now to get 3 months is to pay 4.900 THB to the school and they deal with it, otherwise it's 2 months or less.

When I asked how did that happened, the assistant told me that recently loads of students complained they were being harassed by immigration making them stay all day long and having even to come back the next day, spending a total of 2 DAYS for an extension for finally being given one month or less for no apparent reason.

Having heard about these dreadful reports the school director called immigration office to ask what was going on, he was then told that from now,if our school students wanted 3 months it would cost 4.900 THB, instead of 1,900 THB.

For the moment everyone has refused to pay 4.900 THB and is hoping to get 2 months.

It works really well this way. There's no direct (corrupt) payments to Immigration. The school acts as middlemen with great incentive to play along as it keeps them in business. Immigration inconvenience individual applicants to such a degree that they are "enticed" to pay the 4,900 to the school instead.

Where is MacWalen when you need him? I'm surprised he hasn't weighed in here.

Exactly we now have the choice between harassment and extortion (yes not bribe paz)

[Maestro]

It looks like it should be the schools to rebel against immigration, as it seems that they are being targeted. Their students are merely collateral damage.

[ColdSingha]

It looks like it should be the schools to rebel against immigration, as it seems that they are being targeted. Their students are merely collateral damage.

well if the schools had taken some responsibility and kicked out the students when they knew they were gaming the system by not attending lessons then maybe this stuff wouldn't be a problem with immigration.

instead they took the low road, let their students run amok and we all blamed immigration LOL

100% attendance signing was always going to end in disaster. they chose the baht over integrity and now everyone is paying

[tropo]

It looks like it should be the schools to rebel against immigration, as it seems that they are being targeted. Their students are merely collateral damage.

well if the schools had taken some responsibility and kicked out the students when they knew they were gaming the system by not attending lessons then maybe this stuff wouldn't be a problem with immigration.

instead they took the low road, let their students run amok and we all blamed immigration LOL

100% attendance signing was always going to end in disaster. they chose the baht over integrity and now everyone is paying

People will always "game" any system if loopholes exist. If a student can join a language school and obtain a visa without studying or attending classes, why shouldn't he?

Do you really think any immigration officers really cared?

Now they have pressure from above and are enforcing rules (policy). It had to happen sooner or later. This recent profiteering (by immigration officials) will come to an end sooner or later, but when it does it won't be any easier for students to stay on Ed Visas. If some motivated people start making (official) complaints upstairs it won't make it any easier for the average student. If anything it will just take away the 4,900 baht option, an option that many people who "game" the system don't mind at all.

[Kitsune]

It looks like it should be the schools to rebel against immigration, as it seems that they are being targeted. Their students are merely collateral damage.

well if the schools had taken some responsibility and kicked out the students when they knew they were gaming the system by not attending lessons then maybe this stuff wouldn't be a problem with immigration.

instead they took the low road, let their students run amok and we all blamed immigration LOL

100% attendance signing was always going to end in disaster. they chose the baht over integrity and now everyone is paying

I don't think immigration really cares about who is attending, if they did, it would be easy to send people to do random checks, go to the school,see who is present that day. That would be another way to make more money as the school would offer bribes for the officer to write a good report.

I think they are just for kills now, they want the numbers down.

Financially speaking if any school would report every absentee they would close down immediately, so you can't blame the school for trying to make a living.

[Kitsune]

It looks like it should be the schools to rebel against immigration, as it seems that they are being targeted. Their students are merely collateral damage.

Schools totally depend on immigration's good will.

Their negotiating leverage is close to zero.

I can't see any rebellion possible there.

We can only hope that some powerful or well connected school owner get pissed off enough from losing business to intervene in higher government spheres and put an end to this carnage.

That is wishful thinking I know.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Kitsune

[bkkheat]

Im glad I don't have to do it anymore lol

I got out of the ED visa at the perfect time I think.

My German buddy told me he was at the immigration office for 14 hours to extend for 90 days. Seems like they are doing it slow on purpose because they want people to pay the "donation"

[Kitsune]

Im glad I don't have to do it anymore lol

I got out of the ED visa at the perfect time I think.

My German buddy told me he was at the immigration office for 14 hours to extend for 90 days. Seems like they are doing it slow on purpose because they want people to pay the "donation"

14 hours ? That's madness.

Is that over the course of 2 days?

Yes I too thing they are doing it slow on purpose to get the bribe.

It's an outrage

[Bernard Flint]

It looks like it should be the schools to rebel against immigration, as it seems that they are being targeted. Their students are merely collateral damage.

well if the schools had taken some responsibility and kicked out the students when they knew they were gaming the system by not attending lessons then maybe this stuff wouldn't be a problem with immigration.

instead they took the low road, let their students run amok and we all blamed immigration LOL

100% attendance signing was always going to end in disaster. they chose the baht over integrity and now everyone is paying

SIR

I realy love it, when someone speaks the truth instead of blaming everybody else.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Bernard Flint

[inbangkok]

It looks like it should be the schools to rebel against immigration, as it seems that they are being targeted. Their students are merely collateral damage.

well if the schools had taken some responsibility and kicked out the students when they knew they were gaming the system by not attending lessons then maybe this stuff wouldn't be a problem with immigration.

instead they took the low road, let their students run amok and we all blamed immigration LOL

100% attendance signing was always going to end in disaster. they chose the baht over integrity and now everyone is paying

I blame immigration because they are not doing what they are paid to do. Have you heard the expression "throwing the baby out with the bathwater"? There is no excusable reason I should pay for someone else abusing the ED Visa system. And there is no reason Immigration cannot target those (or the schools) who actually abuse it, rather than making actual students pay as well. No other self respecting country or their immigration force handles problems this way. Thai "students" violating their student Visas in the UK is through the roof! Does the UK treat everyone on a student visa like a criminal because of this? I actually study Thai, and yet they treat me like a criminal when I try to continue studying Thai by applying for an extension. What other country behaves like this?

Edited March 11, 2015 by inbangkok

[inbangkok]

It looks like it should be the schools to rebel against immigration, as it seems that they are being targeted. Their students are merely collateral damage.

well if the schools had taken some responsibility and kicked out the students when they knew they were gaming the system by not attending lessons then maybe this stuff wouldn't be a problem with immigration.

instead they took the low road, let their students run amok and we all blamed immigration LOL

100% attendance signing was always going to end in disaster. they chose the baht over integrity and now everyone is paying

SIR

I realy love it, when someone speaks the truth instead of blaming everybody else.

What truth? Seriously? If immigration did there job (which they never do) they could easily expel people from the country and close schools acting as Visa mills. It would be incredibly simple and easy too! They don't want this though, they would rather allow all this corruption and violation of visas to continue because they can then extort people and make money that way. You speak as if you really believe immigration cares about this and as if they are actually trying to fix it, which they are not.......clearly shown by the action of charging 4,900 baht for extensions yet a receipt is given stating 1,900 baht!

You speak as if this is a respectable, functioning government agency.....which is isn't.

This is not about clamping down on the ED Visa system. It is about finding ways to enact their corrupt behavior on a greater level allowing them to profit more.

Edited March 11, 2015 by inbangkok

[Kitsune]

It looks like it should be the schools to rebel against immigration, as it seems that they are being targeted. Their students are merely collateral damage.

well if the schools had taken some responsibility and kicked out the students when they knew they were gaming the system by not attending lessons then maybe this stuff wouldn't be a problem with immigration.

instead they took the low road, let their students run amok and we all blamed immigration LOL

100% attendance signing was always going to end in disaster. they chose the baht over integrity and now everyone is paying

I blame immigration because they are not doing what they are paid to do. Have you heard the expression "throwing the baby out with the bathwater"? There is no excusable reason I should pay for someone else abusing the ED Visa system. And there is no reason Immigration cannot target those (or the schools) who actually abuse it, rather than making actual students pay as well. No other self respecting country or their immigration force handles problems this way. Thai "students" violating their student Visas in the UK is through the roof! Does the UK treat everyone on a student visa like a criminal because of this? I actually study Thai, and yet they treat me like a criminal when I try to continue studying Thai by applying for an extension. What other country behaves like this?

This exactly why I believe they are not targeting absenteeism, because if they were,they would be doing a very bad job.

Like you, I have been going to school and it doesn't make a difference, I am treated like a criminal and now I have the choice between extortion (4.900 Thb for an extension) and harassment (endless wait and reduced extension time)

Edited March 11, 2015 by Kitsune

[inbangkok]

It looks like it should be the schools to rebel against immigration, as it seems that they are being targeted. Their students are merely collateral damage.

well if the schools had taken some responsibility and kicked out the students when they knew they were gaming the system by not attending lessons then maybe this stuff wouldn't be a problem with immigration.

instead they took the low road, let their students run amok and we all blamed immigration LOL

100% attendance signing was always going to end in disaster. they chose the baht over integrity and now everyone is paying

I blame immigration because they are not doing what they are paid to do. Have you heard the expression "throwing the baby out with the bathwater"? There is no excusable reason I should pay for someone else abusing the ED Visa system. And there is no reason Immigration cannot target those (or the schools) who actually abuse it, rather than making actual students pay as well. No other self respecting country or their immigration force handles problems this way. Thai "students" violating their student Visas in the UK is through the roof! Does the UK treat everyone on a student visa like a criminal because of this? I actually study Thai, and yet they treat me like a criminal when I try to continue studying Thai by applying for an extension. What other country behaves like this?

This exactly why I believe they are not targeting absenteeism, because if they were,they would be doing a very bad job.

Like you, I have been going to school and it doesn't make a difference, I am treated like a criminal and now I have the choice between extortion (4.900 Thb for an extension) and harassment (endless wait and reduced time)

Yeah, I am amazed that people actually think this is a "crackdown" of some sort. There is absolutely no indication of this. If they were cracking down, as you just mentioned, they could easily target absenteeism at schools. But this would take work. They would rather sit around CW playing on their phones and screwing around with one another. The joys of a Thai government job is that you cannot lose it. You are a cop working in a gambling den and extorting people? No Problem! You will just be transferred to a different position in a different location. Get caught taking bribes ON VIDEO? No problem, transfer to another post. There is no reason for these IO's to get off their ass and actually do what they are paid for. They are 100% secure in their jobs.

So you were offered the 4,900 baht option in BKK as well? You had this option in front of you? (No longer just a rumor in BKK).

Edited March 11, 2015 by inbangkok