John Karr Innocent!

[jdinasia]

I wonder what spin the Thai authorities will put on this, as they are just too quick to extradite people on flimsey evidence if any at all? Still Karr won't be coming back to Thailand even though he did nothing wrong here!

While the Thai spin will be interesting, I want to hear the US spin....... they had enough evidence to satisfy "Probable Cause" which obtained a warrant signed by a judge, this would also suffice for extradition. ALL that is required for extradition is a warrant from elsewhere, no evidence is taken nor required, UNLESS the extradition is contested, which Karr did not.

How did the prosecutor obtain a warrant?

He was not extradited, he was deported after being declared not welcome in TH.

Diablo ---- he was deported from Thailand. Arrested in California. The arrest warrant was issued from Colorado. He did not fight extradition to Colorado.

[Diablo Bob]

I wonder what spin the Thai authorities will put on this, as they are just too quick to extradite people on flimsey evidence if any at all? Still Karr won't be coming back to Thailand even though he did nothing wrong here!

While the Thai spin will be interesting, I want to hear the US spin....... they had enough evidence to satisfy "Probable Cause" which obtained a warrant signed by a judge, this would also suffice for extradition. ALL that is required for extradition is a warrant from elsewhere, no evidence is taken nor required, UNLESS the extradition is contested, which Karr did not.

How did the prosecutor obtain a warrant?

He was not extradited, he was deported after being declared not welcome in TH.

Diablo ---- he was deported from Thailand. Arrested in California. The arrest warrant was issued from Colorado. He did not fight extradition to Colorado.

JD,

I haven't been following this case very much, so didn't know that he was deported......

[shotover]

Show me where it is written that Mr. Karr was convicted of any crime, either in California, or anywhere in the world.

I think he was CHARGED, not convicted.

Again, we are presuming his guilt.

My understanding is that he was out on bail, and failed to show for his trial. You can convict someone in absentia? Perhaps, but again, where is it written that he was?

Also, again, these were not serious legal charges under the law, and he will not be doing serious time. I do hope he gets a judge who orders him to get psychiatric help. Along with the wealth advisor.

According to the Denver Post, Karr was arrested in 2001 in California for five counts of child pornography, said Sgt. Rob Giordano, spokesman for the Sonoma County Sheriff's Department. When he finally was released on bond, he disappeared and was convicted in absentia. California state records show a John Mark Karr lost his teaching credential in 2002.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,645193760,00.html

Or you could go back to the original stories posted here .....

or just google ....

But yes he jumped/skipped bond and was CONVICTED.

edit to use proper terminology and time/frame

The above news link stating Karr 'was convicted in absentia' is the only news source I've seen stating he was convicted. Many other sources I've seen, including the following quoting the same police Sgt. above, clearly state he was arrested, but NOT tried and therefore not convicted of the child porn possession charge. TV news legal analysts are stating California can request Karr be extradited back to California to stand trial for the misdemeanor child porn possession charges, thereby clearly indicating he has not YET been convicted.

". . . Karr was arrested in April 2001 in Sonoma County and charged with five counts of possession of child pornography, but he fled the county before he could be prosecuted, said Sgt. Robert Giordano of the Sonoma County Sheriff's Department.. . . "

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...MNGR6KK6FL1.DTL

"Karr is wanted in Sonoma County on an arrest warrant after he was charged with five counts of possessing child pornography in 2001, but fled. Sonoma County Dist. Atty. Stephan Passalacqua said in a statement this afternoon: "We filed this case against Mr. Karr in 2001 and the same merits in proceeding with the case then still exist today." "

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...-home-headlines

If Karr had been convicted of the porn possession charges, there would be no need for a trial in California.

I'm not stating law enforcement should not be concerned about Karr given his sick obsession. However, after the fiasco by the Boulder DA office, do we have to keep being reminded that arrest warrants do not equate to formal charges, or convictions?

Edited August 29, 2006 by shotover

[farangene]

Show me where it is written that Mr. Karr was convicted of any crime, either in California, or anywhere in the world.

I think he was CHARGED, not convicted.

Again, we are presuming his guilt.

My understanding is that he was out on bail, and failed to show for his trial. You can convict someone in absentia? Perhaps, but again, where is it written that he was?

Also, again, these were not serious legal charges under the law, and he will not be doing serious time. I do hope he gets a judge who orders him to get psychiatric help. Along with the wealth advisor.

TQ,

This is one of about 500 google search findings on John karr and conviction in absentia for child porno in CA:

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctime...ia/15293715.htm

In truth, John Karr was being held in 2001 while awaiting trial for five counts of child pornography, said Sgt. Rob Giordano, spokesman for the Sonoma County Sheriff's Department. When he finally was released on bond, he disappeared and was convicted in absentia.

[jdinasia]

the sfgate article is inaccurate in several places including that Karr was being held in BKK on sex charges.

again ... Google will take you to YahooNews and ContraCosta etc etc etc etc stating he was convicted in absentia

and for the other side of the coin ... a member just PM'd me this link stating that Karr will be extradited to Cali to stand trial.

http://www.sonoma-county.org/da/press_rele...ress_082806.htm

I cannot find any PROOF one way or the other .. but the Sanoma County DA's statement though a bit vague does indicate that he was NOT tried in absentia !

grrrrrrrr

Edited August 29, 2006 by jdinasia

[shotover]

the sfgate article is inaccurate in several places including that Karr was being held in BKK on sex charges.

again ... Google will take you to YahooNews and ContraCosta etc etc etc etc stating he was convicted in absentia

Partial correction on my part. A google news search revealed 26 articles stating Karr was 'convicted in absentia' for child porn possession charges in California.

However, numerous other articles say he was charged, never tried nor convicted, and, at the Sonoma DA's option, would be brought back to California to be TRIED for these charges.

For example, per http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/15297434.htm

". . . Karr, a substitute teacher in four Sonoma County school districts between January and April 2001, was arrested and charged with five misdemeanor counts of possession of child pornography in Sonoma County in April 2001. He failed to show up for a court appearance in December 2001 and a warrant was issued for his arrest. The pornography charges are still pending.

Karr was initially jailed in April 2001 in Sonoma County in lieu of $100,000 bail but was released on Oct. 5, 2001. He violated the terms of that release and a warrant was issued for his arrest on Dec. 13, 2001."

Surprise, conflicting media reports! Maybe an attorney can explain how a person convicted in absentia would later be tried after being apprehended, or maybe there are other facts we don't understand.

Time will tell.

[shotover]

The timeline in the following article indicates Karr spent nearly 6 months in jail on the porn charges.

http://cbs5.com/national/local_story_230184011.html

2001

_ January-March: Karr worked in four different school districts throughout Sonoma County, Calif., between January and March 2001.

_ April 13: Karr was arrested on five misdemeanor counts of possession of child pornography, the Sonoma County sheriff's office said.

_ April 17: Karr pleaded not guilty to the charges, according to court documents.

_ April: The Sonoma County School District where Karr sometimes substitute-taught received a letter from the county superintendent of education to say Karr had been taken off the list of acceptable substitutes, after the Sonoma sheriff's office notified school officials he had been arrested.

_ April 19: Karr's wife filed for divorce.

_ Oct. 5: After a series of court hearings, Karr was released from jail, but was ordered to report to a probation officer and avoid child pornography, children and places where children congregate, such as schools, beaches and parks. The court records in the case were sealed.

_ November: A judge issued a restraining order, compelling Karr to stay 100 yards away from his wife and three children for three years.

_ December: A warrant was issued for Karr's arrest after authorities said he violated the terms of his supervised release.

[opothai]

strange times we live in, the hunger for sensationalism may make this very odd chap rich with money but i would hazzard a guess he will never lead a rich and fulfilling life, only a lonely and sad time awaits this dangerously deranged fantacist.

can you do time for being a dagerous deranged fantacist

[Thaiquila]

Actually, Nancy Grace on CNN keeps harping that Thailand is the CHILD SEX capital of the world.

This is outrageously FALSE.

Continuing shame on American media.

[changchang]

Actually, Nancy Grace on CNN keeps harping that Thailand is the CHILD SEX capital of the world.

This is outrageously FALSE.

Continuing shame on American media.

I don't think the USA wants too much focus on how Karr was able to get away with as much as he did, when they were aware of his proclivities. They should have been keeping a much closer eye on him than they did.

[Thaiquila]

Actually, Nancy Grace on CNN keeps harping that Thailand is the CHILD SEX capital of the world.

This is outrageously FALSE.

Continuing shame on American media.

I don't think the USA wants too much focus on how Karr was able to get away with as much as he did, when they were aware of his proclivities. They should have been keeping a much closer eye on him than they did.

???

And what did he do except have sick fantasies (except for the porn charges)?

The USA is such a big diverse country that it is unimaginable to speak of it as if it was a person.

Weird.

[changchang]

And what did he do except have sick fantasies (except for the porn charges)?

Lost his teaching licence. Ran out of the country on child porn charges. Maintained a very dubious website. I would hope there'd be some sort of monitoring of such a person's activities.

The USA is such a big diverse country that it is unimaginable to speak of it as if it was a person

.

I mean the law-enforcement agencies/immigration authorities of the USA.

[sabaijai]

The US media are having a field day using the Karr saga as a springboard for lurid accounts of Bangkok.

The Bangkok Attraction

Thailand Attracts A Dangerous Crowd

[Thaiquila]

The US media are having a field day using the Karr saga as a springboard for lurid accounts of Bangkok.

The Bangkok Attraction

Thailand Attracts A Dangerous Crowd

Just going to sell more books and movie tickets for Mr. Karr.

This is really unfair to Thailand. But they don't care.

[Minburi]

He was just looking for a way out of Thailand as quick as possible so he would not have to spend time in a Thai Jail.

[Thaiquila]

He was just looking for a way out of Thailand as quick as possible so he would not have to spend time in a Thai Jail.

I think you give his sanity level too much credit.

That would have been rational.

What charges in Thailand except being a creep and a scary teacher?

Again, I have heard of no such specific charges.

This guy is world famous. Time to make specific charges or shut up.

[Minburi]

He was just looking for a way out of Thailand as quick as possible so he would not have to spend time in a Thai Jail.

I think you give his sanity level too much credit.

That would have been rational.

What charges in Thailand except being a creep and a scary teacher?

Again, I have heard of no such specific charges.

This guy is world famous. Time to make specific charges or shut up.

Was he not busted for a crime in Thailand?

I think a Thai prison may have been a better choice for this scary teacher as you called him. But more then likely a certain sect would want to visit him bring books and gifts as he is just a misunderstood creep as you said.

World famous? Better pick a word like sick freak who should be locked away for life.

[Thaiquila]

He was just looking for a way out of Thailand as quick as possible so he would not have to spend time in a Thai Jail.

I think you give his sanity level too much credit.

That would have been rational.

What charges in Thailand except being a creep and a scary teacher?

Again, I have heard of no such specific charges.

This guy is world famous. Time to make specific charges or shut up.

Was he not busted for a crime in Thailand?

I think a Thai prison may have been a better choice for this scary teacher as you called him. But more then likely a certain sect would want to visit him bring books and gifts as he is just a misunderstood creep as you said.

World famous? Better pick a word like sick freak who should be locked away for life.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think he was ever arrested in Thailand for anything.

The Thai officials responded to the US officials based on suspicion of the murder and also skipping a criminal charge in California.

OK. So he is a world famous sick freak. Still world famous. Don't deny it. As they say in Hollywood, mucho bankable!

Edited August 29, 2006 by Thaiquila

[Minburi]

He was just looking for a way out of Thailand as quick as possible so he would not have to spend time in a Thai Jail.

I think you give his sanity level too much credit.

That would have been rational.

What charges in Thailand except being a creep and a scary teacher?

Again, I have heard of no such specific charges.

This guy is world famous. Time to make specific charges or shut up.

Was he not busted for a crime in Thailand?

I think a Thai prison may have been a better choice for this scary teacher as you called him. But more then likely a certain sect would want to visit him bring books and gifts as he is just a misunderstood creep as you said.

World famous? Better pick a word like sick freak who should be locked away for life.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think he was ever arrested in Thailand for anything.

The Thai officials responded to the US officials based on suspicion of the murder and also skipping a criminal charge in California.

OK. So he is a world famous sick freak. Still world famous. Don't deny it. As they say in Hollywood, mucho bankable!

You may be right but I thought he arrested for kiddie porn or related to that and if I am wrong my regrets and he was avoiding time in Thai by copping to the Murder to get out of Thailand. If I am wrong sorry its just IHMO.

What do I know but making him up as a Anti-hero who is misunderstood just comes across wrong.

[Thaiquila]

My "understanding" of him is that he is a sick, twisted, soon to be rich wacko. He is obsessed with pederasty. What remains to be determined is whether this man has ever actually committed an ACT of pederasty in his entire life. He is obviously severely mentally ill. He was legally married to young girls in America. But there is not one charge of an actual illegal sex act. Now that he is indeed world famous, you would think the victims would be coming out of the woodwork. But so far, nada. My theory is that it a mental thing for him, that he doesn't act out. I will change my mind if and when actual charges for actual sex crimes (other than owning porn in Calipornia) surface.

Edited August 29, 2006 by Thaiquila

[Minburi]

My "understanding" of him is that he is a sick, twisted, soon to be rich wacko. He is obsessed with pederasty. What remains to be determined is whether this man has ever actually committed an ACT of pederasty in his entire life. He is obviously severely mentally ill. He was legally married to young girls in America. But there is not one charge of an actual illegal sex act. Now that he is indeed world famous, you would think the victims would be coming out of the woodwork. But so far, nada. My theory is that it a mental thing for him, that he doesn't act out. I will change my mind if and when actual charges for actual sex crimes (other than owning porn in Calipornia) surface.

And If I prove to be wrong it will not be the first time and I will again offer regrets as I stated before it is IMHO only and I have no proof of anything.

[Thaiquila]

So who is going to play Mr. Karr in the movie?

[jdinasia]

My "understanding" of him is that he is a sick, twisted, soon to be rich wacko. He is obsessed with pederasty. What remains to be determined is whether this man has ever actually committed an ACT of pederasty in his entire life. He is obviously severely mentally ill. He was legally married to young girls in America. But there is not one charge of an actual illegal sex act. Now that he is indeed world famous, you would think the victims would be coming out of the woodwork. But so far, nada. My theory is that it a mental thing for him, that he doesn't act out. I will change my mind if and when actual charges for actual sex crimes (other than owning porn in Calipornia) surface.

ummmm not porn .... CHILD PORN .... guess either that escaped you or you think it is ok .....

[Minburi]

So who is going to play Mr. Karr in the movie?

Jackie Chan?

[Thaiquila]

My "understanding" of him is that he is a sick, twisted, soon to be rich wacko. He is obsessed with pederasty. What remains to be determined is whether this man has ever actually committed an ACT of pederasty in his entire life. He is obviously severely mentally ill. He was legally married to young girls in America. But there is not one charge of an actual illegal sex act. Now that he is indeed world famous, you would think the victims would be coming out of the woodwork. But so far, nada. My theory is that it a mental thing for him, that he doesn't act out. I will change my mind if and when actual charges for actual sex crimes (other than owning porn in Calipornia) surface.

ummmm not porn .... CHILD PORN .... guess either that escaped you or you think it is ok .....

I see. Just because I state objective facts that this man has never been charged with a criminal SEX ACT, you throw accusations at me. Amazing. You, sir, have sunk quite low.

Of course it was child porn. That is obvious. Regular porn is not only LEGAL in Calipornia, it is almost MANDATORY.

Anyway, what I think or don't think isn't really relevant. He is indeed accused of some minor misdemeanor crimes in California. He is not accused of PRODUCING this porn, rather he is accused of having it on his computer. Big difference legally, at least in Calipornia.

Edited August 29, 2006 by Thaiquila

[Papa_Lazarou]

"He is not accused of PRODUCING this porn, rather he is accused of having it on his computer. Big difference legally, at least in Calipornia."

We conservative folks here don't approve of that sort of juvenilia wank-fest

Edited August 29, 2006 by Papa_Lazarou

[jdinasia]

no ... you keep minimizing it .... "owning porn in calipornia"... just as you had not seen the reports <conflicting granted> that he had been convicted of anything. Look again for the accusation ....

So ... have there been reports that he has been convicted? were the charges related to child porn?

The guy may or not be a sexual predator ... but please do not minimize what he has done.

BTW since this guy put himself into contact with young girls by his work choices ... I'd assume that YES he is a predator

ooops I just saw that you changed your post to FURTHER minimize his behaviour! So ... not producing child porn but merely possessing it is ok ?

Edited August 29, 2006 by jdinasia

[Thaiquila]

I do not believe he has yet been convicted of anything. I think it is probable he will be convicted of those misdemeanors in California. Try to not get emotional about this. A misdemeanor is by legal definition a minor legal charge. I sincerely hope the judge there can find a way to make sure he gets psychiatric help. Because again, I do not believe he has committed any sex act crimes (but would change my mind if he was accused and convicted of same). I seems really knee jerk to assume this guy is guility of crimes he only talks about. Just the facts, maam.

Again, you FOOLISHLY assume he is a predator, but you have no proof. That kind of idiocy is what the DA in Boulder, Fox News, and CNN are guilty of. Deal with FACTS, OK?

It is also that kind of idiocy that the mass media are using to unfairly stereotype Thailand. To them, Thailand is not a country, it is a CARTOON, and as a person who cares about Thailand, I don't appreciate it.

Edited August 29, 2006 by Thaiquila

[Thaiquila]

"He is not accused of PRODUCING this porn, rather he is accused of having it on his computer. Big difference legally, at least in Calipornia."

We conservative folks here don't approve of that sort of juvenilia wank-fest

Glad to hear it, but did you know that studies have shown that most pervs are right wingers?

[Minburi]

I do not believe he has yet been convicted of anything. I think it is probable he will be convicted of those misdemeanors in California. Try to not get emotional about this. A misdemeanor is by legal definition a minor legal charge. I sincerely hope the judge there can find a way to make sure he gets psychiatric help. Because again, I do not believe he has committed any sex act crimes (but would change my mind if he was accused and convicted of same). I seems really knee jerk to assume this guy is guility of crimes he only talks about. Just the facts, maam.

Again, you FOOLISHLY assume he is a predator, but you have no proof. That kind of idiocy is what the DA in Boulder, Fox News, and CNN are guilty of. Deal with FACTS, OK?

It is also that kind of idiocy that the mass media are using to unfairly stereotype Thailand. To them, Thailand is not a country, it is a CARTOON, and as a person who cares about Thailand, I don't appreciate it.

Regular porn is not only LEGAL in Calipornia, it is almost MANDATORY. I think this statment is over stateing your position.