John Karr Innocent!

[M&M]

I wonder what spin the Thai authorities will put on this, as they are just too quick to extradite people on flimsey evidence if any at all? Still Karr won't be coming back to Thailand even though he did nothing wrong here!

While the Thai spin will be interesting, I want to hear the US spin....... they had enough evidence to satisfy "Probable Cause" which obtained a warrant signed by a judge, this would also suffice for extradition. ALL that is required for extradition is a warrant from elsewhere, no evidence is taken nor required, UNLESS the extradition is contested, which Karr did not.

How did the prosecutor obtain a warrant?

It WASN"T an extradition. He was kicked out of Thailand for being an 'undesirable" person.

Just a deal between cops I guess. But certainly he wasn't extradited. That would have taken a lot longer. Maybe you could call it a rendition???

M&M

[britmaveric]

It does draw important attention back to seriously unresolved issues: ... why are children so easily exploited in Thailand. Both governments have a lot of work to do.

Actually, if you know anything about this issue, you would know that Thailand has made significant progress on this issue. That there are other countries where the problem is much more severe. Does Fox and CNN report that? If Thailand made even more progress, would they report that? Of course not. They report their cartoon stereotypes and cement them in people's minds once more.

Hence the media use of stock archived footage from 15yrs ago.

[deminister]

America is a big country, you will always find a self proclaimed specialist. The bottom line is that the jduicial system there is as crooked as in thailand. OJ walks despite the DNA evidence and a innocent lunatic is given a first class trip to California. Well lucky he was not charged in thailand. The police and the head of immigration did not need DNA evidence, he confessed enough for a death sentence in thailand. Americans , hmm they never learn!

[AmeriThai]

It does draw important attention back to seriously unresolved issues: ... why are children so easily exploited in Thailand. Both governments have a lot of work to do.

Actually, if you know anything about this issue, you would know that Thailand has made significant progress on this issue. That there are other countries where the problem is much more severe. Does Fox and CNN report that? If Thailand made even more progress, would they report that? Of course not. They report their cartoon stereotypes and cement them in people's minds once more.

Hence the media use of stock archived footage from 15yrs ago.

And nary a peep about it either that I know of, thus giving a misleading impression that the footage was current.

[Guest endure]

I wonder what spin the Thai authorities will put on this, as they are just too quick to extradite people on flimsey evidence if any at all? Still Karr won't be coming back to Thailand even though he did nothing wrong here!

While the Thai spin will be interesting, I want to hear the US spin....... they had enough evidence to satisfy "Probable Cause" which obtained a warrant signed by a judge, this would also suffice for extradition. ALL that is required for extradition is a warrant from elsewhere, no evidence is taken nor required, UNLESS the extradition is contested, which Karr did not.

How did the prosecutor obtain a warrant?

It WASN"T an extradition. He was kicked out of Thailand for being an 'undesirable" person.

Just a deal between cops I guess. But certainly he wasn't extradited. That would have taken a lot longer. Maybe you could call it a rendition???

M&M

He was deported.

[sonnyJ]

As a murderer. Now he's free to return back to Thailand, since it was false.

[Thaiquila]

As a murderer. Now he's free to return back to Thailand, since it was false.

I seriously doubt that. It seems likely he is blacklisted now. The fact that he skipped a criminal charge in the US would be good enough grounds. Imagine the continued bad publicity for Thailand if they did let him back. So they won't.

Just a thought, is Mr. Karr a Thaivisa member?

[farangsay]

As a murderer. Now he's free to return back to Thailand, since it was false.

I seriously doubt that. It seems likely he is blacklisted now. The fact that he skipped a criminal charge in the US would be good enough grounds. Imagine the continued bad publicity for Thailand if they did let him back. So they won't.

Just a thought, is Mr. Karr a Thaivisa member?

How would you know if he was ?

Possible suspects among the members anyone ?

Now , we're looking for someone a bit weird OK.

That should narrow it down a lot ?

[Guest endure]

As a murderer. Now he's free to return back to Thailand, since it was false.

He was deported as an undesirable alien.

[jrincon17]

As a murderer. Now he's free to return back to Thailand, since it was false.

He was deported as an undesirable alien.

Now didnt he admit to this case or knew of it ? How is he going to be rich ? I think he would be killed before he became rich !

[britmaveric]

As a murderer. Now he's free to return back to Thailand, since it was false.

He was deported as an undesirable alien.

Now didnt he admit to this case or knew of it ? How is he going to be rich ? I think he would be killed before he became rich !

His brother said he was writing book on Jobenet - sounds like free publicity.

[sonnyJ]

What would be the problem with Thailand of Karr being a tourist here?

On what account? Because he was suspected falsely?

[sonnyJ]

As a murderer. Now he's free to return back to Thailand, since it was false.

He was deported as an undesirable alien.

On waht basis?

Please, give me some proof/documents.

[jaloochapurr]

[size=5]This has to be the best story i have ever heard!! What a way to get a free trip back to the USA.

I wish I had thought of this. Confess to some crime you know you are going to get cleared of and win a free trip home..[/size]

[Chua]

Off to jail for Karr - kiddie porn charges in CA and course jumping bail. Prob get a movie/book deal now.

Some facts:

FACT: The charges were for possession of photographs of "kiddie porn" -- for all we know it was pictures of his own kids, perhaps in the bathtub or something.

Not defending the guy, but this whole thing should teach people, especially the media to STOP jumping to unsupported, unfounded conclusions. Just look at what facts there are, and if there's not enough info, just say "we don't know."

As far as I understand it, he wasn't ever arraigned in California on the "kiddie 'porn' photograph" charges. He had a failure to appear for the arraignment so he didn'wasn't ever convicted, nor even officially charged in court. He was a no-show. He got a bench warrant for his arrest, but PRIOR TO THAT he had no conviction, no bail jumping and probably he left the country before the bench warrant was even issued. Anyway, even if had been convicted, its just a misdemeanor. So, Thailand would've let him in even with a conviction like that.

FACT: He was not extradited from Thailand. Based on the California bench warrant and his confessions, his visa was revoked, as "an undesirable person" and thus he was deported.

FACT: After arriving in California, Colorado got a warrant for "suspicion of murder, suspicion of sexual assault on a minor" and made a request for extradition. Karr waived his rights to fight that.

(obviously hoping for another first class flight and more champagne! Whooo hooo!)

The real question is: how did the prosecutor get authorization for the expense of 2 security gaurds and Karr to fly first class back to the US, and later get a warrant to extradite him from CA to CO and authorize bringing him back to Colorado, ALL BEFORE they had even thought to do a DNA check? If that was the lynch pin, which they surely knew before, why not just keep him in a cell in Bangkok, get a blood sample sent over to Colorado via Fedex for $30 and save thousands of dollars on 3 first class airfares + extradition to Colorado + all the news conferences and media hype. That Boulder DA's office has proven themselves totally inept yet again, big time.

Yet, there's still plenty of evidence available out there about the real killer.

Here's a few more facts: there were no footprints in the deep snow anywhere near the Ramsey house on December 26. No sign of forced entry. OK, now think: How and why would they leave a ransom note inside the house saying "they" have the daughter, yet left her inside the house? It all points to someone inside the house, but there were only 3 other people there. John and Patsy and the son. Now use some common sense logic: If the son did it, he would've broke down and admitted it -- he's just a kid so there's also no way he wrote a ransom note with words like "foreign faction", "attache" , "adequate", "deviation", "particularly", "deceive", "countermeasures", "scrutiny", and "authorities". So that leaves Patsy & John. He's a calm, cool, collected, businessman. She's an insecure, emotional, overweight, aging, former beauty queen who dresses up her 4,5, and 6 year old daughter like Paris Hilton and then teaches her to dance seductively while singing "I want to be a cowboy's sweetheart." It's like Mommie Dearest, all over again, and she just accidentally lost it... maybe choked her in anger while drunk or something. Now I realize that's circumstantial & hypothetical, but her handwriting on the "ransom" note is a dead giveaway. Its on www.thesmokinggun.com

If the prosecutors were as strong as Michael Jackson's defense team she would've been in jail for the last 9 years.

There's only one reason why she and MJ never did jail time. Starts with the letter $

[NovaBlue05]

The only winner here is Thailand. It's one less farang child predator walking their streets.

[Jing Joe]

However much of his reported and supposed sick confessions and sick revelations about his thinking are true or not, if he spends times behind bars for other child porn reason, then tight security/isolation would be needed to avert the "prison justice" mentioned, otherwise he would never get to write more than the first chapter.

"Prison justice" would predictably assure he is as good as dead meat in jail without that security protecting him. Who knows the probability of any future practicing out of his present fantacies. Jusice at the moment says he innocent of his present publicity stunt.

Sad case being exposed/revealed, so detailed by the incredible global media I.T. facilities and is rightly or wrongly singularly overshadowing the plight of so much of other kinds of grief in the world.

Maybe it will generally bring more attention to parents of the potential exposure and/or danger to kids of the internet and other kiddy porn risks.

Maybe it's a case of "Would the real culprit please put up their hand" before any more would-be authors attempting to get rich cause her parents any more grief, and before any more fertilisation occurs to the imagination of other sick puppies out there?

[zl1vette]

Jon Benet's MURDERER is buried next to her in GA.

Those interested in reading the FACTS in the case can find them here:

http://vincentbridges.com/?p=83

Here's a quote: An analysis of the ransom note and a psychological profile done by SERAPH Inc., a private profiling agency, and delivered to the Boulder Police on May 25, 1998, determines that the case is one of “a child’s murder with ritualistic overtones. Mrs. Ramsey’s motives and post incident actions cannot be understood with rational thought. This crime was committed by a delusional individual who has convinced herself of her own innocence. Sociopaths always view their violent actions as justified. When a divine intervention is added to this justification pathology, you have a highly volatile individual.”

The report continues: “We believe that Patsy Ramsey is a delusional sociopath."

If you look further, in other sources, you will discover the failed polygraph test that was suppressed. This was after shopping for someone who would test them without drug testing them, which they refused to others.

Occam's Razor.

[Thaiquila]

As a murderer. Now he's free to return back to Thailand, since it was false.

He was deported as an undesirable alien.

Now didnt he admit to this case or knew of it ? How is he going to be rich ? I think he would be killed before he became rich !

Perhaps by an very IGNORANT person who doesn't realize that a false "confession" from a madman doesn't mean guilt.

[stao]

Before all the publicity, expense, Larry King Live Interviews & input from every wandering space-case, babbling psychopath & recovering sweaty bicycle seat sniffing Khaosan Road burn-out no one bothered to do the very thing the case would hinge on... A DNA test

No wonder the Denver Police Department never found the murderer... They probably couldn't find their own ass with both hands & a flashlight

Oh... Almost forgot... Never mind the decade long trashing of the poor murdered girls parents accusing them of everything from A to Z

What A Zoo This guy will probably write a book and become a millionaire now

[Thaiquila]

Yeah, but her dead mother did not have an alibi.

Karr did.

[kalaminsa]

Will the government pay for his flight back to Thailand ?

[Thaiquila]

Will the government pay for his flight back to Thailand ?

Actually, not such a silly question.

If he wasn't classified as an undesirable person by Thailand, that would be a legitmate demand. But as things are, he will be in Cali for awhile.

So who should play him in the movie? Jim Carey?

Edited August 29, 2006 by Thaiquila

[steffi]

TIT

He's still going to remain persona non grata in Thailand though. I seriously doubt that he'll be allowed past immigration on arrival.

[nikster]

Also, Thailand IS "THE SEX TRADE CAPITAL OF THE WORLD".

LOL somehow this case brings out the best of Thaivisa - very entertaining!!

How can a country be a capital of anything only on FOX news...

Karr is a nutcase, as was clear pretty much the next day after he was arrested. I agree with the poster above that when somebody confesses a murder like this, then the claims must be investigated and either verified or refuted - the authorities did nothing wrong here.

And this part of the story - in the BKK Post - is sending a chill down my spine and makes me very glad Mr. Karr was pulled out of LOS:

Denver TV station KUSA reported that Thai police arrested Karr after he was seen with a young girl sitting on his lap in a school.

Karr, corresponding by email with University of Colorado Professor Michael Tracey, said that the girl in Thailand reminded him of JonBenet, and that he had the same feelings about her as he had about JonBenet.

"He was falling in love again" with the girl, the source said.

[Guest endure]

As a murderer. Now he's free to return back to Thailand, since it was false.

He was deported as an undesirable alien.

On waht basis?

Please, give me some proof/documents.

On the basis that he was an undesirable alien. Deportation does not require probable cause. Karr wasn't charged until he arrived in the USA.

[nikster]

how did the prosecutor get authorization for the expense of 2 security gaurds and Karr to fly first class back to the US, and later get a warrant to extradite him from CA to CO and authorize bringing him back to Colorado, ....

Regardless of the other facts surrounding the case, this is silly. Why didn't they just let the Thai police do the DNA tests? Maybe because people have mysteriously died in Thai jail, most recently an Austrian prince?! Or maybe because it's not unusual that "suspects" get shot in Thailand?

If they thought they have a good chance of catching the murderer, they had to do what they did. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Thailand is in its good right to say "no, thanks!" to Karr after it's clear that he has a child porn conviction, he was teaching in a school, he had a young girl in his lap, and he had confessed his love to her in an email...

[AmeriThai]

Off to jail for Karr - kiddie porn charges in CA and course jumping bail. Prob get a movie/book deal now.

Some facts:

FACT: The charges were for possession of photographs of "kiddie porn" -- for all we know it was pictures of his own kids, perhaps in the bathtub or something.

? ? ?

You're not serious, right? Do you think pictures of his own kids in a bathtub would be the same thing as kiddie porn (child pornography)?

[nikster]

On waht basis?

Please, give me some proof/documents.

On the basis that he was an undesirable alien. Deportation does not require probable cause. Karr wasn't charged until he arrived in the USA.

Sonnyj, you have to understand that countries work sort of like bars: They reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.

That's why the immigration in any country - USA, Thailand, wherever - can deny entry to any foreigner, without legal recourse.

[nikster]

[size=5]This has to be the best story i have ever heard!! What a way to get a free trip back to the USA.

I wish I had thought of this. Confess to some crime you know you are going to get cleared of and win a free trip home..[/size]

It's a plan that may be too brilliant for any normal person to pull off though. First you have to have a history of child pornography and obsession with famous child murder cases dating back decades, then the teacher's accreditation, the emails back home etc etc.

Of course he was "writing a book" on the case, that fits perfectly with an obsession.

I find the idea that he just did it to escape Thai justice or even to make tons of $$$ with the publicity entertaining, but that looks really unlikely. Much more likely is that he's genuinely nuts and a danger to children.

To those who think he just wants to get rich: He was reported to be driving around in a Porsche when studying for his teacher's credentials...