ChiangMaiThai Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I've heard of some foreigners in Thailand making very good money selling timeshares in Bangkok, Samui and Phuket. (I'm talking enough to live very, very well in the US or UK). Does anyone know more about this? Are there illegal things happening here? Unethical? Fraudulent? Or is it all totally legit and these guys are just hard workers and good sales people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolognamare Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 (edited) Selling timeshares is legal. It's hard to find customers, specially without experience and without other incomes to survive. Of course if you can find real customers regularly (1-2 times/week) you can obtain a work permit too. I think it could be a good secondary job (and income) if you meet daily a lot of people with your primal job. The primal job is the hardest thing to find, specially without big savings.. Edited August 30, 2006 by bolognamare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorfarang Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Just what we need, more time share hawkers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiangMaiThai Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 (edited) Just what we need, more time share hawkers... Why is this negative attitude regarding timeshare so prevelant? Is it the product or the sales tactics or other? Edited August 30, 2006 by ChiangMaiThai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffphuket Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 The police have field day rounding up and deporting the illigal timeshare touts in Patong every now and then. The Phuket Gazette had a wonderful cartoon depicting them boarding an aircraft with the stewardess saying 'congratulations you've won a free ticket back home' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiangMaiThai Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 The police have field day rounding up and deporting the illigal timeshare touts in Patong every now and then. The Phuket Gazette had a wonderful cartoon depicting them boarding an aircraft with the stewardess saying 'congratulations you've won a free ticket back home' Why are they illegal? The companies that I have seem promise a work permit. It sounds like the problem is with the sales tactics, not the product, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffphuket Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Why are they illegal? The companies that I have seem promise a work permit. It sounds like the problem is with the sales tactics, not the product, correct? A lot work on the promise that a work permit is going to obtained. Few if any get one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiangMaiThai Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 A lot work on the promise that a work permit is going to obtained. Few if any get one Here's one: http://www.phukets.info/phuket-classifieds/qri/opc.html Promises work permit and promises to pay for your ticket once you make a couple sales. So these companies promise all this, never arrange it and then stand by and watch you get deported? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffphuket Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Here's one: http://www.phukets.info/phuket-classifieds/qri/opc.htmlPromises work permit and promises to pay for your ticket once you make a couple sales. So these companies promise all this, never arrange it and then stand by and watch you get deported? Try it and see.... maybe you're feeling lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonfruit Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Why is this negative attitude regarding timeshare so prevelant? Is it the product or the sales tactics or other? Definately the sales tactics on my part! I spent the best part of an hour (on top of the most boring 2 hour tour of a 3 star facility) saying no in varius forms, to three different people. They kept bringing out each others bosses who had the 'authorization' to lower the price more and more. It was quite clearly the greatest scam. Would love to get one of those guys in the bar plastered so that i can find out the real truth behind it all. Did get a nice T-shirt for my afternoons work though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiangMaiThai Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 Thanks for all the comments. I don't want to do this myself, but I am very curious when I hear about farangs with little or no experience making hundreds of thousands of Baht a month. Seems to good to be true. But maybe some very good salespeople are doing this. I can't imagine that a company would be around long if they constantly hired people, promised a work permit, never arranged it and then watched their employees get deported. There must be more to the story of timeshare hawkers getting deported.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxm88 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Do a Google search on "timeshare scam", returns about 270,000 pages. All your questions will be explained therein... Does Thai law require these kinds of contracts to include a 3 or 5 day "cooling off" period? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Thankfully those obnoxious timeshare folks don't come to Kamala .... but if one more pesters me in Patong on my rare trips over there I am gonna scream! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiquila Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 If you are going to sell timeshare, you are going to have to accept that being considered a SLEAZEBALL is a fringe benefit of the trade. Don't ask why. Own it. You will feel better. I took a sleazeball "job" once, selling precious metals to senile US Midwesterners. It took me about 2 days to realize the place was a criminal boiler room only interested in separating suckers from their money. I was only 23 at the time and thankfully didn't have the stomach for it. My personal opinion is that timeshare deals vary, but overall they are an atrocious "investment" always sold with hard ball sales tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljeque Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Time shares are SOLD, not bought. A friend of mine bought one in Pattaya. He can have his one week per year in Phuket as well, but it is only one year no matter where it is. He paid $12,000 for it. He also pays 12,000 baht per year MAINTENANCE. This MAINTENANCE FEE alone would cover his one-bedroom unit in View Talay Residence for the one week per year and he would never have had to pay the $12,000 in the first place--but he did not ask me first. Time shares are illegal in a lot of countries because the governments have discovered exactly what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Californiaguy Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Guys, do not fret about sales of timeshares. They are a profitable, very profitable, industry all over the World, not just Thailand. You can find timeshare people in most resorts all over the World: In the US you can find them in Florida, California, Colorado and many other sates; in Mexico they are a common fixture in most beach resorts including Cancun, Acapulco, Los Cabos and Huatulco; in Venezuela you see them in Caracas and in Isla Margarita and so on and on. Most of those developments are managed and sold by foreigners, except in the US I guess. When you think about one room sold 52 times a year you can think of many possible giveaways, that is the reason that they do give away a bunch of stuff. It is not an investment per se of a financial nature, but it is an investment (in some cases) into your well being, because you have almost the obligation to travel. I sold timeshares when I was a kid, and now I have my own flexible time shared in a reputable company here in California. Not bad indeed, the company owns more than 50 resorts and they are all top of the line, you get to travel in pure indulgence, paying as if you were a regular 50 dollars a night tourist. They are not for everyone of course, if you spend less than that on your hotel per night, do not even look at this option. The sales tactics will always be the same, as it is not something that you need to buy, and specially in a two hour presentation, but people buy and many of us enjoy the traveling although not the sale. That money is made it is true; that foreigners make most of the money in timeshare sales, that is true as well, in many cases by the thousands per month, in most cases perfectly legal. Groups of successful sales people are moved around the World to sell the next big complex. If people are scared of foreigners making a lot of money, well, develop your own sales team, be successful at what you do and you will be traveling around the World making big money, and then you will be the foreigner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 who cares if a foriegner makes a few bucks selling them? It's a sleaze business that in Thailand makes NO SENSE for the consumer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danesei Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Why is this negative attitude regarding timeshare so prevelant? Is it the product or the sales tactics or other? <snip> Did get a nice T-shirt for my afternoons work though. A <deleted>' T-shirt? Stateside, Hilton gives you a nice dinner to listen to the spiel, then if you say no, they'll give you $100 for wasting your time. As for the product v sales tactic... I think, for starters, the product sucks. I don't think it's as extreme US side as the "pay $12k USD, then pay 12k baht/yr for a room that costs 12k baht/wk" but it's somewhat close to that. I think it takes 22 yrs of continued usage just to break even. Miss a year, and you'll need three consecutive to make it up. (I don't remember why the math worked that way.) Anyway, that being said, the sales tactics are even worse. They use things like "this can be your primary residence!" to get you to buy. Come now... who owns a timeshare and earns so little $ that they can CLAIM the $700 or so of mortgage interest? Pretty much scam sale there. The big deal is you get a deed... that's the sales point they make. I tell them "Okay, give me $2800. I'll let you use my car one week per year. You just need to let me know 8 weeks in advance. Also, there's a $25/mo maintenance fee." They usually call their manager at that point, which I take as a referral. To the manager I say "Hello, 'Jerry' must really value your expertise and friendship. (S)he recommended you as someone who would want to take advantage of our great deal. As a referral of a preferred customer, I've been authorized to give you a special deal, but only for today! (Repeat first pitch.)" That's when they give me my $100 and tell me never to come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiangMaiThai Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 who cares if a foriegner makes a few bucks selling them?It's a sleaze business that in Thailand makes NO SENSE for the consumer! Why does it make more sense? I guess in the example that was given where the guy could have gotten the same place for 12,000 baht a week and he paid a $12,000 fee plus 12,000 Baht a month, it is obvious. But even Mariott and some of the other upscale places are in on it. I would venture to say that there are good and bad deals and that combined with the sales tactics really turns people off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 (edited) Nope ... it is just a ploy to seperate idiots from their $$. Edited August 30, 2006 by jdinasia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 A work permit for selling timeshare??? So you really believe you are going to get a job and a work permit think again. When you think Mr. Big says he will get you a work permit, he actually said he would help you apply for one, he knows you won’t get one. :D Bet you only get paid commission, if you do not make a sale you get nothing, bet he even got you to put money up front to cover his expenses, I mean you are dealing with a timeshare pro… There is nothing wrong with the principle of timeshare... The problem is the people who sell it… BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qualtrough Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I wish I could find it, but I recently saw an article in Forbes or some such publication about how the resale value of timeshares was extremely low. I just Googled one article that said the average loss on a timeshare transaction was 46%! Google timeshare + resale for more info. In most cases an extremely bad deal/investment, which is why they use the sleazy high pressure sales schemes to get rid of them. Even if I was interested in one I cannot imagine doing so in Thailand, where the enforcement of any consumer protection laws (if they even exist in this case) is nil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdinasia Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Hmmmm for 10 years use of your "timeshare" for a week a year .... that's about 60k a week (call it 2 weeks and that is 30k a week) and likely almost 0 liklihood of selling it off ....... Plus you are often stuck with just that one place to go to ... etc etc ... My rent on a decent house in Phuket would be paid for more than 6MONTHS with that! (based on the above figures of a 12kUSD purchase and $300 USD/yr service) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jchopstix Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Time Share properties are only a good deal for the seller. Just think You buy one week say for $19,000 multiply that by 52 and look a the number of units on a property and you will see why it is a good deal for the seller. Then there are the fees: There is the annual maintenance fee. Special assesments In some countries property tax as you own a share of the unit A fee to book your room A fee to rent it if you do it through the property and they usually get 60% of the rental fee. If you don't book your week they can rent it out and keep all of the money for your week. If the place you are looking to go to does not have time available when you want to go you are out of luck The best thing is if you are the sales person. The comission rate is usually high to start with a is on a sliding scale based on the deal the customer signs up for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soihok Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Well....I actually bought a time share (I can hear you all groaning). View Talay Villas,Pattaya (more groans and uttering of words like tit and fool). It was before the place was bulit in 1999,all I can say is I was drunk....really. They used swanky sales persons(sexy ladies in skimpy clothes ,,etc,etc.) Any way ,to cut a long storey short,it was a mistake.......I find View Talay ok but as the time share is in conjunction with a company that deals with time shares globally I am not restricted to staying at View Talay,or Thailand,it can be exchanged any where world wide. If I dont use the weeks I have in a year they are banked and valid for three more years,or I can sell them myself.It just means that I must keep going on holiday. Looking back ,it was a stupid move for me to make,and as for the resale value :whistling:I,ll have to find a drunked farang at 8 in the morning in Pattaya. Anyone fancy two weeks in the States? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soihok Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 "drunken farang" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAWMAN Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Time shares are SOLD, not bought. A friend of mine bought one in Pattaya. He can have his one week per year in Phuket as well, but it is only one year no matter where it is. He paid $12,000 for it. He also pays 12,000 baht per year MAINTENANCE. This MAINTENANCE FEE alone would cover his one-bedroom unit in View Talay Residence for the one week per year and he would never have had to pay the $12,000 in the first place--but he did not ask me first. Time shares are illegal in a lot of countries because the governments have discovered exactly what they are. If Time Shares are SOLD and not Bought, how come your friend Bought one and was not SOLD one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiquila Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 (edited) When was the last time you just had a certain URGE to buy a timeshare? How about NEVER. That never happens. Customers never seek out the sales people, rather the customers are hunted like prey for sharks. These guys make used car salesmen look GOOD. BTW, I am selling a used car. Edited August 30, 2006 by Thaiquila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawker9000 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 When was the last time you just had a certain URGE to buy a timeshare?How about NEVER. That never happens. Customers never seek out the sales people, rather the customers are hunted like prey for sharks. These guys make used car salesmen look GOOD. BTW, I am selling a used car. Several here have the right take on this. Regardless of the actual investment or vacation value behind it, and perhaps there's an exception to this, but the sales tactics are incredibly ferocious. Far worse than the worst used car salesman you've ever even seen cartoons about. I think they stop short of deadly force. I've seen (SEEN!) women leave the room in tears over the harassment and intimidation - and it only took a couple of these to convince me to never even think about it again. I worked with a guy two years ago who owned a timeshare; and he was very happy with his, considered the provider he was dealing with to be very much the exception to all the bad press timeshares always get, and felt that his was worthwhile from an investment as well as a vacation standpoint - but he's the only person I've ever met who ever had anything remotely positive to say about timeshares. 99% of the time, it's an experience most won't put themselves through more than once. (Some, like me, might not get that they're all like that until they get to the 2nd one.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary A Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 I have two friends in Jomtien who sold time shares. One is retired and was basically looking for something to do. The other had no income except what he could make on the sales. The one who needed the money has gone back to the US because serious customers were few and far between. The other is still here and enjoying his retirement. I won't say that the time shares are a scam because they are legitimate companies and you do get the product that you paid for. The problem is that just the yearly fees would pay for a decent hotel especially in Thailand. The money you paid for your week or two is GONE. No one could EVER call a time share a good investment. I have a wealthy brother in law who has a time share. He is a smart guy and told me that he does enjoy his membership simply because he knows where he is going to stay and the condos are top shelf in great areas. He also says that they certainly are NOT a bargain and it is not likely he would ever be able to sell his membership. The only plus is that he does get to see many places in the world that he would never normally go to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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