Applying for a schengen visa from within Uk to visit Netherlands

[poolie]

Hi

I am British and my Thai partner are not married and she has permanent residency here in the UK. We are getting married early June 2015 and plan to visit friends in Holland end of July.

I have looked into getting the schengen visa via VFS Manchester but i was wondering if the process would be easier/different if we were to wait until we are married?

Can anyone advise please

Many thanks

[paz]

If you were married she would not need a visa at all, but if she was to get one anyway, would be compulsorily issued and free of charge.

[bigyin]

If you were married she would not need a visa at all, but if she was to get one anyway, would be compulsorily issued and free of charge.

Is that correct? I thought non EU spouses needed a Schengen visa for all EU countries but that they should be granted free and without any restrictions (although other threads report some serious issues with this although apparently not with the Netherlands).

[paz]

If you were married she would not need a visa at all, but if she was to get one anyway, would be compulsorily issued and free of charge.

Is that correct? I thought non EU spouses needed a Schengen visa for all EU countries but that they should be granted free and without any restrictions (although other threads report some serious issues with this although apparently not with the Netherlands).

Visa not needed when they travel with the EU spouse. But since it's free, could be a good idea to get it anyway.

[bigyin]

I still don't think that this is correct as the UK is not part of the Schengen area. Married or not a non EU national would still normally need a Schengen Visa to visit another EU country. This would not be the case if the UK had signed up to the Schengen agreement but it hasn't. Being married just means that there should be no impediment placed in the way of the spousal applicant and it's free.

[paz]

I still don't think that this is correct as the UK is not part of the Schengen area. Married or not a non EU national would still normally need a Schengen Visa to visit another EU country. This would not be the case if the UK had signed up to the Schengen agreement but it hasn't. Being married just means that there should be no impediment placed in the way of the spousal applicant and it's free.

In this case the Shenghen agreement is not relevant.

By European law, all EU citizens and their immediate family members have right to travel, reside and work in any member state, without a visa being required.

You can read the many postings about here or any other website. If you come back to dispute this, you will be corrected again so I recommend you lear about the matter before posting.

[poolie]

Hi there

Just seen this on the VFS website

"IMPORTANT NOTICE: Family members of an EU/EEA National in possession of a valid UK Residence Permit do not require a visa to enter Netherlands if traveling with or intending to join the EEA family member. If the person travels without the family member, they would be required to apply under the Tourist visa category and provide all of the required documentation for the same, and would be required to pay the visa fee in addition to the service charge. Please note that the UK Residence Permit must state that the holder is a family member of an EU/EEA National"

^ Seems straightforward, but then goes onto mention the documents required eg implying you have to apply somewhere before travel?

"Applicants must provide a fully-booked return flight, train or ferry ticket directly to Netherlands, proving that the main destination is Netherlands and that family members are travelling together.

Applicant must also provide marriage certificate/birth certificate and a copy of the passport of the EEAEU Spouse/Child.

If applicants are not able or do not wish to provide the above, they must apply at the embassy of the country they intend to transit through."

Thank you all for your feedback

[poolie]

Just called 0871 376 0023 (VFS Global) and been informed that my partners Biometric residence card must contain the following wording, otherwise she must apply for a schengen visa

"Please note that the UK Residence Permit must state that the holder is a family member of an EU/EEA National"

I will have to check the card as unsure of what it says. I know she has full ILR and is free of immigration.

[paz]

^ Seems straightforward, but then goes onto mention the documents required eg implying you have to apply somewhere before travel?

Documents are mentioned to apply for a visa when

the person travels without the family member, they would be required to apply under the Tourist visa category

The rest of the quoting is wrong

"IMPORTANT NOTICE: Family members of an EU/EEA National in possession of a valid UK Residence Permit do not require a visa to enter Netherlands if traveling with or intending to join the EEA family member. If the person travels without the family member, they would be required to apply under the Tourist visa category and provide all of the required documentation for the same, and would be required to pay the visa fee in addition to the service charge.

.

Residenc is not needed - if visa is apllied for , it is free

Edited March 19, 2015 by paz

[paz]

-- deleted

Edited March 19, 2015 by paz

[Donutz]

I suggest to check the Schengen sticky first, it's aimed at applying from TH but the rules apply for applying from the UK aswell:
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/724180-schengen-visa-faq-when-applying-from-thailand/

- You can apply via VFS (why would you? They are optional, charge a fee and are less knowledgable then the embassy itself) or directly at the embasssy. An appointment should be given within 2 weeks. Direct applications are free of a service charge.
- Applications under Directive 2004/38 Freedom of Movement means that the visa will be provided for free (except for a service charge if you chose to use the optional service provider), ASAP and with mininal documentation.
- Minimal documentation is required, the below minimum should be sufficient to bring along:
-- The application form (filled out, skipping the * questions)
-- 2 passport photo's
-- Pasport and copies of the applicant
-- Copy of the EU passport (show the original at the counter if you wish)
-- The marriage certificate (you might supply a translation and it might be certified/legalized, the embassies often prefer this dditional documentation, so it's suggest to provide this. But stricly speaking you only have to show that you are legally and genuinly married and you can use ANY means to show this)
-- Something that shows the Thai will travel with the UK citizen to NL. A letter from the EU national explaining their intentions should be sufficient. But if you feel like it you are free to submit more evidence that make it clear that you will head to NL (and UK) together such as hotel bookings etc.
-- Hotelbookings, transportation reservations etc. are NOT required as as is evident from the application form: questions marked with an * can be skipped. VFS is thus incorrect (!) in requesting these items! Insurance, proof of funds, likelyhood of return etc. also do not have to be established.

- The Netherlands also accept "durable relationships akin to marriage", such as having lived together for a while (6 months are more seems to be sufficient for the Dutch).

Useful recent topics:
- http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/757121-dutch-schengen-visa (edit: not so useful, applies to TH application)
- http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/804545-taking-thai-mrs-to-france/?p=9137460 (See TheoldGit's post on a free visa for his Thai girlfriend to NL)


General information on 2004/38:
Is a visa required for a UK national and Thai spouse/durable-partner traveling to an other EU state? Strictly speaking (waiving around with the Mrax Rulling and direcitve 2004/38/EC) you would be allowed to travel around the EU/EEA without visa for up to 3 months if at any time you can show that your Thai partner is covered by the directive (and are traveling together ofcourse). You'd need ID for the both of you, evidence of the relationship as required per the directive etc. etc. Good luck trying to board a plane or ferry without visa or wasting a lot of time talking to border officers, police officers etc. So in general a free visa is very much required so you can travel around without fear of delay or worse ending up in some holding cell or deportation. The only foreigners who do not need a free visa when traveling witht he EU natioanl are those who carry a residence card issued under directive 2004/38 article 10 "family member of an EU/EEA national", these are people who are doing or have completed the Surinder Sign route (SS route, EU route).
The UK currently does not accept such a card for most cases though, and had to be called back by the ECJ:
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/785187-european-court-of-justice-ruling-re-family-visitors-to-the-uk/

Just called 0871 376 0023 (VFS Global) and been informed that my partners Biometric residence card must contain the following wording, otherwise she must apply for a schengen visa

"Please note that the UK Residence Permit must state that the holder is a family member of an EU/EEA National"

I will have to check the card as unsure of what it says. I know she has full ILR and is free of immigration.

Unless you have done the SS route or are doing so now (by living in Spain with your Thai wife for instance), your partner will have a regular residence permit and not an article 10 residence card "family member of EU/EEA national".

Edited March 19, 2015 by Donutz

[paz]

Ok, I'm confused. I ran into this page

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm

that says because the UK is non-schengen, a visa would be needed. Which is contradicts my previous understanding, as well what the UK VFS says.

It also says If they will be travelling together with you, or joining you in another EU country, their application should be processed quickly and free of charge:

Again contradicting the UK VFS website where it says would be required to pay the visa fee in addition to the service charge

Perhaps 7b7 or Donutz can clarify - I'm off.

Edited March 19, 2015 by paz

[Donutz]

Ok, I'm confused. I ran into this page

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/index_en.htm

that says because the UK is non-schengen, a visa would be needed. Which is contradicts my previous understanding, as well what the UK VFS says.

It also says If they will be travelling together with you, or joining you in another EU country, their application should be processed quickly and free of charge:

Again contradicting the UK VFS website where it says would be required to pay the visa fee in addition to the service charge

Perhaps 7b7 or Donutz can clarify - I'm off.

Lol, yeah it gave me a headache aswell in the beginning. The page you link to is a good start, it does not cover all scenarios or goes into detail but it does mention the basics/essentials.

After that usefull reading is the direcitve 2004/38 itself:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2004:158:0077:0123:en:PDF

And the Schengen Handbook for embassies, with a chapter on 2004/38:

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy/index_en.htm --> http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy/docs/20140709_visa_code_handbook_consolidated_en.pdf

And ofcourse the website of the embassy itself, to see if and how the cover freedom of movement applications. Some do rather poorly (knowingly or simply because they are not familiar with this "free, fast, simple" route either for these type of applicants). And then there is the external service provider (VFS or TLS) but those are often even more confused then the embassy in question! SO that's why I'd check the EU pages first, then contact the embassy staff and inquire with them. In this case I'd contact the Dutch after having graspt the basics provided here (the EU webpage on EU/EEA travel for non-EU family).

[poolie]

I suggest to check the Schengen sticky first, it's aimed at applying from TH but the rules apply for applying from the UK aswell:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/724180-schengen-visa-faq-when-applying-from-thailand/

- You can apply via VFS (why would you? They are optional, charge a fee and are less knowledgable then the embassy itself) or directly at the embasssy. An appointment should be given within 2 weeks. Direct applications are free of a service charge.

- Applications under Directive 2004/38 Freedom of Movement means that the visa will be provided for free (except for a service charge if you chose to use the optional service provider), ASAP and with mininal documentation.

- Minimal documentation is required, the below minimum should be sufficient to bring along:

-- The application form (filled out, skipping the * questions)

-- 2 passport photo's

-- Pasport and copies of the applicant

-- Copy of the EU passport (show the original at the counter if you wish)

-- The marriage certificate (you might supply a translation and it might be certified/legalized, the embassies often prefer this dditional documentation, so it's suggest to provide this. But stricly speaking you only have to show that you are legally and genuinly married and you can use ANY means to show this)

-- Something that shows the Thai will travel with the UK citizen to NL. A letter from the EU national explaining their intentions should be sufficient. But if you feel like it you are free to submit more evidence that make it clear that you will head to NL (and UK) together such as hotel bookings etc.

-- Hotelbookings, transportation reservations etc. are NOT required as as is evident from the application form: questions marked with an * can be skipped. VFS is thus incorrect (!) in requesting these items! Insurance, proof of funds, likelyhood of return etc. also do not have to be established.

- The Netherlands also accept "durable relationships akin to marriage", such as having lived together for a while (6 months are more seems to be sufficient for the Dutch).

Useful recent topics:

- http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/757121-dutch-schengen-visa (edit: not so useful, applies to TH application)

- http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/804545-taking-thai-mrs-to-france/?p=9137460 (See TheoldGit's post on a free visa for his Thai girlfriend to NL)

Thank you very much for all your help

I note that as of March 1st 2015 it is no longer possible to apply for visas at the Dutch Consulates or Embassy in London. This work has been out sourced to VFS and you can only apply at VFS London, Manchester and Edinburgh.

Although the cost of the visa is £0 you must still pay a service fee of £20.39p

[Donutz]

Thank you very much for all your help

I note that as of March 1st 2015 it is no longer possible to apply for visas at the Dutch Consulates or Embassy in London. This work has been out sourced to VFS and you can only apply at VFS London, Manchester and Edinburgh.

Although the cost of the visa is £0 you must still pay a service fee of £20.39p

That information is incorrect (as in incomplete and thuis a violation of the Schengenvisa rules), the EU Schengen Code states:

Article 17

5. The Member State(s) concerned shall maintain the possibility for all applicants to lodge their applications directly at its/their consulates.

Source: EU Directive 810/2009/EC "Visa Code"

And the EU Handbook for Schengen embassies states:

4.4. Direct access

Maintaining the possibility for visa applicants to lodge their applications directly at the consulate instead of via an external service provider implies that there should be a genuine choice between these two possibilities.

Even if direct access does not have to be organised under identical or similar conditions to those for access to the service provider, the conditions should not make direct access impossible in practice. Even if it is acceptable to have a different waiting time for obtaining an appointment in the case of direct access, the waiting time should not be so long that it would render direct access impossible in practice.

The different options available for lodging a visa application should be presented plainly to the public, including clear information both on the choice and the cost of the additional services of the external service provider (see Part I, point 4.1).

Source: 2nd EU handbook found on http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy/index_en.htm

The embassy and VFS website should mention that you can apply directly at the embassy if an applicant wishes to do so (saving the service fee). An appointmentsystem can be inplace but direct appointments should still be possible, especially for EU/EEA applications the appointment should be free of charge unless one ofcourse prefers to go via VFS.

Edit: you may wish to forward those wrong instructions to EU Home Affairs and the EU representation ( "EU embassy" ) in the UK and contact the NL embassy regarding this misinformation. BTW: The NL embassy in TH correctly mentions right of direct access. The London based one should do so too!

Edited March 20, 2015 by Donutz

[poolie]

Donutz

I hear everything you say and understand the points regards to "Direct Access" and right to be seen by consulate/embassy. I am going to try and contact one of the consulates to discuss this

Link below explains more about visa services being removed

http://unitedkingdom.nlembassy.org/organization/dutch-consulates

Thanks again