Historic Iran nuclear deal reached

[Pinot]

There have always been hidden dangers in over-selling during the demonization process. The Executive branch of the American government has information we as individual citizens will never see. In fact, the congress will not see much of it. Obama's handlers and henchmen know what they can sell and go with it. There are a bunch of very smart people who are dealing with real information, not the crap we get from the Mainstream Media.

I am sure the individuals involved in the negotiations were very much aware and were faced with what the American public would buy. The blow-back is simply part of the business.

There is no measurement by which to suggest that this "bunch" of people are "very smart." Perhaps you could provide some examples of where the President's team's brilliance has resulted in a better world? Can you point to any successes internationally? Can you point to any successes nationally? The Obama team are, however, keenly aware that Americans will eat a crap sandwich if given one bite at a time. Since Obama's sound thumping in 2014 he and his team have abused the notion that they care what the American people will buy- they are hoisting it upon America, and the world. Blow-back? If you realized what he was aiming for intermittent "blow-back" along the way would appear trivial.

I would take a cross section of pro and con opposite posters from Thai Visa and stack them up with the Kerry Team any day. For Obama, the negotiations are not an end in themselves but one more crown in inflicting his good upon the region. There is a reason Obama is seen as Iblis.

Edit: What is "the demonization process" and what are the "hidden dangers?"

There is so much utter loonyness written by SOME posters here it's remarkable. And you think a cross section of TV posters could negotiate an historic peace treaty? Really?

I'm reading such craziness here. I don't want to single out which one is the worst or why specifically it's crazy but it's...craaaaaazy. Whooooowhooooooo.

The right is babbling. Babbling bile. They've had a terrible week with the Indiana Anti-gay law. And now an historic peace treaty with the enemy of their friend, Sheldon Adelson. It's like two year olds having a hissy fit, "Obama is the devil."

People...let's try and get a grip here. Geeeze

[sdanielmcev]

Gotta wonder who the devil is in this deal with the devil.

[chuckd]

<<snip>>

There is so much utter loonyness written by SOME posters here it's remarkable. And you think a cross section of TV posters could negotiate an historic peace treaty? Really?

I'm reading such craziness here. I don't want to single out which one is the worst or why specifically it's crazy but it's...craaaaaazy. Whooooowhooooooo.

The right is babbling. Babbling bile. They've had a terrible week with the Indiana Anti-gay law. And now an historic peace treaty with the enemy of their friend, Sheldon Adelson. It's like two year olds having a hissy fit, "Obama is the devil."

People...let's try and get a grip here. Geeeze

"And now an historic peace treaty with the enemy of their friend, Sheldon Adelson. It's like two year olds having a hissy fit, "Obama is the devil."

At least, part of your quoted comment is correct. That last sentence is refreshingly concise.

Having said that, please explain what "peace treaty" has been signed between the Iranian government and the P5+1.

There has been no "peace treaty" signed by anybody. They have simply agreed to keep kicking the can down the road until the US finally falls to their knees and surrenders at some point in time.

The Iranians have plenty of time. The desperate Obama regime only has something less than 22 months.

[ggold]

According to the Iranians there is no agreement and no commitments and president Obama is lying when he claims there is. I must say that is the most believable thing I've ever heard uttered by an Iranian spokesman.

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-accuses-u-s-of-lying-about-new-nuke-agreement/

Didn't you see the footage of obama telling the world what a great deal it was only to say mid way that no deal had been signed! And you are right the Iranians are calling him a liar.

interesting to see the TV appeasers getting their nicker's in a twist over this. There is no deal, Obama is a liar and a fool. he is more dangerous than the Iranians.

[Seastallion]

Remember, you read it hear on TV first:

The context of any fallacious agreement is taking place against the backdrop of unprecedented shia aggression and expansion. Many of us have been noting for weeks that we are on the verge of a considerable shia sunni war. IMO, this permission by the US to Iran is an unmitigated disaster. All this arrangement will do is further escalate all sides in a now inevitable conflict.

The great oddity is the US has seemingly switched sides. However, when viewed in the train of US foreign policy context, this should be no surprise at all. The US administration has facilitated, conducted, and made permissive war throughout the region, if not the world.

So, the sunni religious leader of the holiest muslim site on earth declared war on shia. Egyptian and Iranian naval vessels exchanged fire. The ridiculous paper drill in futility meets the real world in near comic fashion. Obama has pursued his bipolar middle east dream at the cost of untold lives, suffering, and war- its a "dream in the air (pipe dream)" but nightmare on the ground.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/04/02/Muslim-Cleric-Calls-All-Out-War

Regarding Obama: fewer humans have so insidiously enabled war under a banner of peace

Last sentence bold emphasis by me.

You seem to imply that enabling war openly (a la Dubbya Bush) is better?

[ggold]

Remember, you read it hear on TV first:

The context of any fallacious agreement is taking place against the backdrop of unprecedented shia aggression and expansion. Many of us have been noting for weeks that we are on the verge of a considerable shia sunni war. IMO, this permission by the US to Iran is an unmitigated disaster. All this arrangement will do is further escalate all sides in a now inevitable conflict.

The great oddity is the US has seemingly switched sides. However, when viewed in the train of US foreign policy context, this should be no surprise at all. The US administration has facilitated, conducted, and made permissive war throughout the region, if not the world.

So, the sunni religious leader of the holiest muslim site on earth declared war on shia. Egyptian and Iranian naval vessels exchanged fire. The ridiculous paper drill in futility meets the real world in near comic fashion. Obama has pursued his bipolar middle east dream at the cost of untold lives, suffering, and war- its a "dream in the air (pipe dream)" but nightmare on the ground.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/04/02/Muslim-Cleric-Calls-All-Out-War

Regarding Obama: fewer humans have so insidiously enabled war under a banner of peace

Last sentence bold emphasis by me.

You seem to imply that enabling war openly (a la Dubbya Bush) is better?

What! you think there isn't a war coming, if not between the west and Iran certainly Shia v Sunni. You think the gulf states are going to sit back and let Iran have its own way?

[willyumiii]

According to the Iranians there is no agreement and no commitments and president Obama is lying when he claims there is. I must say that is the most believable thing I've ever heard uttered by an Iranian spokesman.

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-accuses-u-s-of-lying-about-new-nuke-agreement/

I guess there's no end to the lying from the Obama administration.

Even if they were telling the truth, even this article makes it clear much is left to be done. This headline is also misleading.

Damn that evil Obama!

Always trying to avoid wars and prevent people from needlessly killing each other!

If he keeps up this foolishness, someday Americans will have noone to look down on or to hate!

How and the heck does he expect red blooded, Christian, red necked Americans to enjoy themselves?

(sarc )

Edited April 3, 2015 by willyumiii

[BKKBobby]

Remember, you read it hear on TV first:

The context of any fallacious agreement is taking place against the backdrop of unprecedented shia aggression and expansion. Many of us have been noting for weeks that we are on the verge of a considerable shia sunni war. IMO, this permission by the US to Iran is an unmitigated disaster. All this arrangement will do is further escalate all sides in a now inevitable conflict.

The great oddity is the US has seemingly switched sides. However, when viewed in the train of US foreign policy context, this should be no surprise at all. The US administration has facilitated, conducted, and made permissive war throughout the region, if not the world.

So, the sunni religious leader of the holiest muslim site on earth declared war on shia. Egyptian and Iranian naval vessels exchanged fire. The ridiculous paper drill in futility meets the real world in near comic fashion. Obama has pursued his bipolar middle east dream at the cost of untold lives, suffering, and war- its a "dream in the air (pipe dream)" but nightmare on the ground.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/04/02/Muslim-Cleric-Calls-All-Out-War

Regarding Obama: fewer humans have so insidiously enabled war under a banner of peace

Last sentence bold emphasis by me.

You seem to imply that enabling war openly (a la Dubbya Bush) is better?

What! you think there isn't a war coming, if not between the west and Iran certainly Shia v Sunni. You think the gulf states are going to sit back and let Iran have its own way?

Let Iran have its own way as in having the nuclear program?

Yes, the gulf states will do exactly that.

Those states are aware of the fact that they have shia minorities or majorities that might become rebellious if their home countries launch a war against Iran.

Edited April 3, 2015 by BKKBobby

[Exsexyman]

Can you count to 67?

If so, post a list of the 67 US Senators who have publicly stated they will "keep this thing in check".

Will Senate Democrats really help kill an Obama nuclear deal with Iran?

March 30

"The negotiations over the future of Iran’s nuclear program are coming down to the wire, with last-minute snags developing around the question of whether Iran will agree to allow its atomic fuel to be shipped out of the country. Other unresolved issues include the pace at which sanctions would be lifted, how many centrifuges Iran could continue operating, what research and development would be allowed on more advanced centrifuges, and what monitoring would look like.

But even if the framework of a deal is reached in the short term — the immediate goal of the talks — there is a real possibility, the White House believes, that Congress could kill a final deal even before it is agreed upon, with the willing participation of Senate Democrats.

Emphasis mine more - Washington Post/Reuters

I realise this may be difficult for you Americans to understand, but this is an INTERNATIONAL agreement reached by some of the worlds biggest powers. Your congress can huff and puff until the cows come home but it can't 'kill anything. The rest of the world is sick and tired of the US constantly bombing other countries, destabilizing them, facilitating the takeover by ISIS in Iraq, Libya, and Syria next if they have their way. The vast majority of the civilized world will welcome this agreement with open arms, they want peace not conflict. But for the right wing in America, and indeed some on here, peace is not wanted, only the constant urging for more war. War means money, peace doesn't bring home the bacon. Of course Netanyahu's Israel will be spitting feathers over this agreement, and as we speak he will certainly be looking for ways to scuttle it, but thankfully Netanyahu is no longer welcome in polite society, never should have been but better late than never. Blessed are the peacemakers! And for the tiny minority who only want more and more wars, try not to choke on those sour grapes.

[arjunadawn]

Seastallion wrote:

"Last sentence bold emphasis by me.

You seem to imply that enabling war openly (a la Dubbya Bush) is better?"

"Regarding Obama: fewer humans have so insidiously enabled war under a banner of peace" - arjunadawn

This is false logic, and not particularly clever either. My statement implies nothing of the sort.

I did not invest in my statement the qualities of "good or bad, better or worse"- you did! I made a declaration only.

"Regarding Obama: fewer humans have so insidiously enabled war under a banner of peace"

(I have no use for either of them. In fact, one needs to step back 5, 10, 20 years in their perspective overview to realize how all the disjointed policy failures today actually enable a near predictable plan. Nothing could possibly be this F--'d up unless intentionally).

I actually indict Obama for continuing Bush's absurd meddling and empire building).

[chuckd]

<<snip>>

I realise this may be difficult for you Americans to understand, but this is an INTERNATIONAL agreement reached by some of the worlds biggest powers. Your congress can huff and puff until the cows come home but it can't 'kill anything. The rest of the world is sick and tired of the US constantly bombing other countries, destabilizing them, facilitating the takeover by ISIS in Iraq, Libya, and Syria next if they have their way. The vast majority of the civilized world will welcome this agreement with open arms, they want peace not conflict. But for the right wing in America, and indeed some on here, peace is not wanted, only the constant urging for more war. War means money, peace doesn't bring home the bacon. Of course Netanyahu's Israel will be spitting feathers over this agreement, and as we speak he will certainly be looking for ways to scuttle it, but thankfully Netanyahu is no longer welcome in polite society, never should have been but better late than never. Blessed are the peacemakers! And for the tiny minority who only want more and more wars, try not to choke on those sour grapes.

Sorry, Esm, but this statement is only true to a point.

"I realise this may be difficult for you Americans to understand, but this is an INTERNATIONAL agreement reached by some of the worlds biggest powers. Your congress can huff and puff until the cows come home but it can't 'kill anything."

If an agreement were to be signed tomorrow, 4 April 2015, its validity could only be guaranteed for a grand total of 656 days as far as the participation of the US is concerned.

An incoming President could declare, by Executive Order, the agreement null and void on 20 January 2017, and any point in time thereafter.

The Constitution is explicit in that only the Senate can give consent to an official treaty and the President can then ratify it. If this process were to be followed the treaty would be binding on future Presidental administrations.

Sadly, this President is planning to exercise his executive authority by signing an Executive Agreement, which is NOT binding on future administrations. This would bypass any Congressional action and would be done on his executive power alone, which is limited in its scope.

The fact that other powers might have signed it does not alter the fact the President has limited authority to make Executive Agreements.

International agreements do not take precedence over the US Constitution, as far as the US is concerned.

[Scott]

Numerous reported off-topic posts have been removed.

Please stay on topic.

[ggold]

Remember, you read it hear on TV first:

The context of any fallacious agreement is taking place against the backdrop of unprecedented shia aggression and expansion. Many of us have been noting for weeks that we are on the verge of a considerable shia sunni war. IMO, this permission by the US to Iran is an unmitigated disaster. All this arrangement will do is further escalate all sides in a now inevitable conflict.

The great oddity is the US has seemingly switched sides. However, when viewed in the train of US foreign policy context, this should be no surprise at all. The US administration has facilitated, conducted, and made permissive war throughout the region, if not the world.

So, the sunni religious leader of the holiest muslim site on earth declared war on shia. Egyptian and Iranian naval vessels exchanged fire. The ridiculous paper drill in futility meets the real world in near comic fashion. Obama has pursued his bipolar middle east dream at the cost of untold lives, suffering, and war- its a "dream in the air (pipe dream)" but nightmare on the ground.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/04/02/Muslim-Cleric-Calls-All-Out-War

Regarding Obama: fewer humans have so insidiously enabled war under a banner of peace

Last sentence bold emphasis by me.

You seem to imply that enabling war openly (a la Dubbya Bush) is better?

What! you think there isn't a war coming, if not between the west and Iran certainly Shia v Sunni. You think the gulf states are going to sit back and let Iran have its own way?

Let Iran have its own way as in having the nuclear program?

Yes, the gulf states will do exactly that.

Those states are aware of the fact that they have shia minorities or majorities that might become rebellious if their home countries launch a war against Iran.

If you read the mainstream news, you might realise that Saudi and Iran are facing off in the Yemen. By all means let them have an nuclear program but this isn't about that it's about Irans covert attempts at Nukes!

Now even if you don't think that is the case, Iran's reluctance to inspections would imply that they are indeed attempting such a thing. So why trust them? Why allow a situation where neighbouring countries would have no option but to get Nukes as well, in effect starting an arms race.

Does that bring security to a volatile area?

There are 70 countries that have nuclear energy, very few of them process there own Uranium or Plutonium, they buy their supplies from the west. So what makes Iran a special case where they should be allowed to work towards a bomb?

People talk about Peace and not going to war. I also am against war, but not at the cost of an Arms race created by a ego maniac in the white house who despite his claims of a deal which is a lie, is looking more and more isolated.

There are dangerous times ahead, if Indeed they get the bomb. Imagine what Hitler might have done had he had the bomb!

So the person who claims Obama will go down in history as a Peace maker or some such nonsense. Wrong his footnote in history will be one the Americans will look back on in shame.

[NeverSure]

Links later.

Please don't. You've already pasted the entire damn internet in here at least twice.

[snarky66]

LAUSANNE, Switzerland — Just hours after the announcement of what the United States characterized as a historic agreement with Iran over its nuclear program, the country’s leading negotiator lashed out at the Obama administration for lying about the details of a tentative framework.

Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif accused the Obama administration of misleading the American people and Congress in a fact sheet it released following the culmination of negotiations with the Islamic Republic. Zarif additionally said Iran would have all nuclear-related sanctions lifted once a final deal is signed and that the country would not be forced to shut down any of its currently operating nuclear installations.

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-accuses-u-s-of-lying-about-new-nuke-agreement/

Wonderful job of negotiating by Kerry & the stooges.

[NeverSure]

Will Senate Democrats really help kill an Obama nuclear deal with Iran?

March 30

"The negotiations over the future of Iran’s nuclear program are coming down to the wire, with last-minute snags developing around the question of whether Iran will agree to allow its atomic fuel to be shipped out of the country. Other unresolved issues include the pace at which sanctions would be lifted, how many centrifuges Iran could continue operating, what research and development would be allowed on more advanced centrifuges, and what monitoring would look like.

But even if the framework of a deal is reached in the short term — the immediate goal of the talks — there is a real possibility, the White House believes, that Congress could kill a final deal even before it is agreed upon, with the willing participation of Senate Democrats.

Emphasis mine more - Washington Post/Reuters

I realise this may be difficult for you Americans to understand, but this is an INTERNATIONAL agreement reached by some of the worlds biggest powers. Your congress can huff and puff until the cows come home but it can't 'kill anything. The rest of the world is sick and tired of the US constantly bombing other countries, destabilizing them, facilitating the takeover by ISIS in Iraq, Libya, and Syria next if they have their way. The vast majority of the civilized world will welcome this agreement with open arms, they want peace not conflict. But for the right wing in America, and indeed some on here, peace is not wanted, only the constant urging for more war. War means money, peace doesn't bring home the bacon. Of course Netanyahu's Israel will be spitting feathers over this agreement, and as we speak he will certainly be looking for ways to scuttle it, but thankfully Netanyahu is no longer welcome in polite society, never should have been but better late than never. Blessed are the peacemakers! And for the tiny minority who only want more and more wars, try not to choke on those sour grapes.

This is just totally incorrect. If you have been following the news you'll know that this is only Obama and not the US Congress or the US people. Obama has the authority to make a deal that is binding only on himself!! It would not be binding on the next president who will take office in less than 2 years. This deal if made would be an executive decision unless ratified by Congress. If it's a treaty it would also have to be ratified by 2/3 of the states' legislatures. That's a big reach.

There is nothing international about this other than the place of negotiation. It would not be binding on the United States of America other than one person - Obama. Obama is on his own here acting on behalf of only the (current) president.

End of.

Edited April 3, 2015 by NeverSure

[jazzyfrosty]

The historic framework agreement over Iran’s nuclear program, reached after extensive talks in Lausanne, marks a triumph of sanity amid the insanity responsible for chaos and carnage across the Middle East.

This insanity is most clearly represented by Israel’s Benjamin Netanyahu, whose tireless efforts to drag the US into war with the Islamic Republic have exposed him as a reckless and dangerous extremist, a man with a Manichean worldview that has more in common with a biblical character from the Old Testament than the leader of an advanced economy in the 21st century.

Iran poses no threat to Israel’s existence. On the contrary, it is Israel that poses a threat to the existence of the Palestinian people, whose oppression at its hands stands as an indictment of the so-called international community and its self-proclaimed status as a champion of human rights and democratic values.

The view that Iran is a threat to Israel is a product of either crass ignorance or mendacity. What Iran does, and has opposed, is Israeli expansionism and militarism, which along with the sponsorship of extremism emanating from Riyadh constitutes the main source of instability in the region.

[englishoak]

Some here fail to realise there is more than just the US in the P5 +1 gang.

Bibi is out on his own along with the loony tunes right wingers on all sides. Good, they have done nothing but spread death,destruction and misery.

Most hope the deal is formalised and are looking/working for progress and peace, something Israel will have to deal with and suck up

Funny when something/anything moves towards a peaceful agreement the lunatic war supporters come out and cry foul.

[NeverSure]

Some here fail to realise there is more than just the US in the P5 +1 gang.

Bibi is out on his own along with the loony tunes right wingers on all sides. Good, they have done nothing but spread death,destruction and misery.

Most hope the deal is formalised and are looking/working for progress and peace, something Israel will have to deal with and suck up

Funny when something/anything moves towards a peaceful agreement the lunatic war supporters come out and cry foul.

Well, technically the US isn't involved. Its president is and he has no authority to speak for anyone but himself. Any deal he might make isn't binding on the next president. It isn't binding on Congress or the American people.

Everyone except a few posters on here knows that and the majority of Congress and the American people don't like this deal.

Debate the merits all you like but don't forget what it really is and who's behind it. It's a belligerent ego trip by Obama.

[BKKBobby]

Some here fail to realise there is more than just the US in the P5 +1 gang.

Bibi is out on his own along with the loony tunes right wingers on all sides. Good, they have done nothing but spread death,destruction and misery.

Most hope the deal is formalised and are looking/working for progress and peace, something Israel will have to deal with and suck up

Funny when something/anything moves towards a peaceful agreement the lunatic war supporters come out and cry foul.

Well, technically the US isn't involved. Its president is and he has no authority to speak for anyone but himself.

Sounds like you consider a president to be nothing more than the mascot of the US.

[snarky66]

LAUSANNE, Switzerland — Just hours after the announcement of what the United States characterized as a historic agreement with Iran over its nuclear program, the country’s leading negotiator lashed out at the Obama administration for lying about the details of a tentative framework.

Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif accused the Obama administration of misleading the American people and Congress in a fact sheet it released following the culmination of negotiations with the Islamic Republic. Zarif additionally said Iran would have all nuclear-related sanctions lifted once a final deal is signed and that the country would not be forced to shut down any of its currently operating nuclear installations.

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-accuses-u-s-of-lying-about-new-nuke-agreement/

Wonderful job of negotiating by Kerry & the stooges.

So it turns out that Bibi's read of this agreement is spot on.

[snarky66]

Some here fail to realise there is more than just the US in the P5 +1 gang.

Bibi is out on his own along with the loony tunes right wingers on all sides. Good, they have done nothing but spread death,destruction and misery.

Most hope the deal is formalised and are looking/working for progress and peace, something Israel will have to deal with and suck up

Funny when something/anything moves towards a peaceful agreement the lunatic war supporters come out and cry foul.

You know there is more to this than that. As barry was giving his spin speech in the Rose Garden he dropped a bombshell. He said the negotiators were the 5 permanent members US Britian France Russia & Red China. PLUS Germany then barry add's AND THE EU. huh? Who knew? This is breaking news. But then barry goes off the reservation. Saying he is the only person or president to place sanctions on Iran. Then he says he got all the conditions our country has insisted upon for decades., FALSE. mister president. You moved the goal posts as you habitually do. Bibi is spot on. Capitulation.

[NeverSure]

Well, technically the US isn't involved. Its president is and he has no authority to speak for anyone but himself.

Sounds like you consider a president to be nothing more than the mascot of the US.

He has only certain powers given by the Constitution. Making international treaties/agreements for the country isn't one of them. They must be ratified by Congress to be binding on the country.

He can make an agreement for himself as president, but if the next president doesn't like it he can waive it/reverse it. It's power doesn't reach beyond the current president.

He's not a dictator. He's elected to lead one branch of government and the military. As for the military he can't decide their funding or declare war. He's just the head guy following the laws made by Congress.

Only Congress can make laws and ratify treaties. Congress could make a law to prohibit this negotiation/agreement.

The US has a division of powers for a reason - no dictator. Obama is acting like he thinks he's a dictator and it's pissing people off on both sides of the aisle, and many American people.

Edited April 3, 2015 by NeverSure

[hawker9000]

Lets think about this for a minute. Obama just made a deal with Iran, who is the "worlds leading state sponsor of terrorism and he thinks this is a good deal, OMG! This deal is even worst and far most serous than the Bergdahl deal.

Yeah. What another diplomatic tour-de-force that one was, eh? What's Bergdahl facing now, possible confinement for life? And we traded 5 Taliban VIPs for that? And now concessions to Iran, with Iran loudly denying there is actually even a deal!! The moron-in-chief does it again. Always lowering the bar.

Edited April 4, 2015 by hawker9000

[Pakboong]

There have always been hidden dangers in over-selling during the demonization process. The Executive branch of the American government has information we as individual citizens will never see. In fact, the congress will not see much of it. Obama's handlers and henchmen know what they can sell and go with it. There are a bunch of very smart people who are dealing with real information, not the crap we get from the Mainstream Media.

I am sure the individuals involved in the negotiations were very much aware and were faced with what the American public would buy. The blow-back is simply part of the business.

There is no measurement by which to suggest that this "bunch" of people are "very smart." Perhaps you could provide some examples of where the President's team's brilliance has resulted in a better world? Can you point to any successes internationally? Can you point to any successes nationally? The Obama team are, however, keenly aware that Americans will eat a crap sandwich if given one bite at a time. Since Obama's sound thumping in 2014 he and his team have abused the notion that they care what the American people will buy- they are hoisting it upon America, and the world. Blow-back? If you realized what he was aiming for intermittent "blow-back" along the way would appear trivial.

I would take a cross section of pro and con opposite posters from Thai Visa and stack them up with the Kerry Team any day. For Obama, the negotiations are not an end in themselves but one more crown in inflicting his good upon the region. There is a reason Obama is seen as Iblis.

Edit: What is "the demonization process" and what are the "hidden dangers?"

Many of us have taken a loyalty oath to obey the orders of the President and are obligated. Treason is the other option.

We have supported the idea of the big bad Iranians for decades. They have been 2 years away from a nuclear bomb for 3 or 4 decades. That process of convincing the public is the demonization process which becomes the day job of pretty much every public official. In my lifetime it started with the soviets and communism and now is with the Islamic extreme countries/groups, but the Shias in particular.

I have never been an Obama fan. I don't really like his ways and ideas but I am obligated to his decisions. I guess I could forfeit my US citizenship and my commission but I can't imagine being pissed enough to do that.

I have the ideological luxury of not liking Israel and I clearly think Netanyahu is a nut job far worse than Obama and I have no obligation what-so-ever to Israel and its leadership. That may be a luxury you don't have and for that, you have my sympathies.

Allowing the Mainstream Media to demonize a country or a people to the extent we have done with Iran, sets the stage for blowback like we are seeing with this agreement. Agreeing to 3.67% enrichment is a good deal when it takes 90% for a nuclear weapon. Insisting on zero is not a negotiation, it is bullying.

[zydeco]

There have always been hidden dangers in over-selling during the demonization process. The Executive branch of the American government has information we as individual citizens will never see. In fact, the congress will not see much of it. Obama's handlers and henchmen know what they can sell and go with it. There are a bunch of very smart people who are dealing with real information, not the crap we get from the Mainstream Media.

I am sure the individuals involved in the negotiations were very much aware and were faced with what the American public would buy. The blow-back is simply part of the business.

There is no measurement by which to suggest that this "bunch" of people are "very smart." Perhaps you could provide some examples of where the President's team's brilliance has resulted in a better world? Can you point to any successes internationally? Can you point to any successes nationally? The Obama team are, however, keenly aware that Americans will eat a crap sandwich if given one bite at a time. Since Obama's sound thumping in 2014 he and his team have abused the notion that they care what the American people will buy- they are hoisting it upon America, and the world. Blow-back? If you realized what he was aiming for intermittent "blow-back" along the way would appear trivial.

I would take a cross section of pro and con opposite posters from Thai Visa and stack them up with the Kerry Team any day. For Obama, the negotiations are not an end in themselves but one more crown in inflicting his good upon the region. There is a reason Obama is seen as Iblis.

Edit: What is "the demonization process" and what are the "hidden dangers?"

Many of us have taken a loyalty oath to obey the orders of the President and are obligated. Treason is the other option.

We have supported the idea of the big bad Iranians for decades. They have been 2 years away from a nuclear bomb for 3 or 4 decades. That process of convincing the public is the demonization process which becomes the day job of pretty much every public official. In my lifetime it started with the soviets and communism and now is with the Islamic extreme countries/groups, but the Shias in particular.

I have never been an Obama fan. I don't really like his ways and ideas but I am obligated to his decisions. I guess I could forfeit my US citizenship and my commission but I can't imagine being pissed enough to do that.

I have the ideological luxury of not liking Israel and I clearly think Netanyahu is a nut job far worse than Obama and I have no obligation what-so-ever to Israel and its leadership. That may be a luxury you don't have and for that, you have my sympathies.

Allowing the Mainstream Media to demonize a country or a people to the extent we have done with Iran, sets the stage for blowback like we are seeing with this agreement. Agreeing to 3.67% enrichment is a good deal when it takes 90% for a nuclear weapon. Insisting on zero is not a negotiation, it is bullying.

I'm happy to hear that you feel obligated to obey the orders of the US president. And I look forward to seeing you do so when the next US president enters the office and promptly undoes all of Obama's chaos creating pro-Mullah policies.

[Pakboong]

There have always been hidden dangers in over-selling during the demonization process. The Executive branch of the American government has information we as individual citizens will never see. In fact, the congress will not see much of it. Obama's handlers and henchmen know what they can sell and go with it. There are a bunch of very smart people who are dealing with real information, not the crap we get from the Mainstream Media.

I am sure the individuals involved in the negotiations were very much aware and were faced with what the American public would buy. The blow-back is simply part of the business.

There is no measurement by which to suggest that this "bunch" of people are "very smart." Perhaps you could provide some examples of where the President's team's brilliance has resulted in a better world? Can you point to any successes internationally? Can you point to any successes nationally? The Obama team are, however, keenly aware that Americans will eat a crap sandwich if given one bite at a time. Since Obama's sound thumping in 2014 he and his team have abused the notion that they care what the American people will buy- they are hoisting it upon America, and the world. Blow-back? If you realized what he was aiming for intermittent "blow-back" along the way would appear trivial.

I would take a cross section of pro and con opposite posters from Thai Visa and stack them up with the Kerry Team any day. For Obama, the negotiations are not an end in themselves but one more crown in inflicting his good upon the region. There is a reason Obama is seen as Iblis.

Edit: What is "the demonization process" and what are the "hidden dangers?"

Many of us have taken a loyalty oath to obey the orders of the President and are obligated. Treason is the other option.

We have supported the idea of the big bad Iranians for decades. They have been 2 years away from a nuclear bomb for 3 or 4 decades. That process of convincing the public is the demonization process which becomes the day job of pretty much every public official. In my lifetime it started with the soviets and communism and now is with the Islamic extreme countries/groups, but the Shias in particular.

I have never been an Obama fan. I don't really like his ways and ideas but I am obligated to his decisions. I guess I could forfeit my US citizenship and my commission but I can't imagine being pissed enough to do that.

I have the ideological luxury of not liking Israel and I clearly think Netanyahu is a nut job far worse than Obama and I have no obligation what-so-ever to Israel and its leadership. That may be a luxury you don't have and for that, you have my sympathies.

Allowing the Mainstream Media to demonize a country or a people to the extent we have done with Iran, sets the stage for blowback like we are seeing with this agreement. Agreeing to 3.67% enrichment is a good deal when it takes 90% for a nuclear weapon. Insisting on zero is not a negotiation, it is bullying.

I'm happy to hear that you feel obligated to obey the orders of the US president. And I look forward to seeing you do so when the next US president enters the office and promptly undoes all of Obama's chaos creating pro-Mullah policies.

I don't feel obligated, I am obligated. There actually is a huge difference.

[hawker9000]

There have always been hidden dangers in over-selling during the demonization process. The Executive branch of the American government has information we as individual citizens will never see. In fact, the congress will not see much of it. Obama's handlers and henchmen know what they can sell and go with it. There are a bunch of very smart people who are dealing with real information, not the crap we get from the Mainstream Media.

I am sure the individuals involved in the negotiations were very much aware and were faced with what the American public would buy. The blow-back is simply part of the business.

There is no measurement by which to suggest that this "bunch" of people are "very smart." Perhaps you could provide some examples of where the President's team's brilliance has resulted in a better world? Can you point to any successes internationally? Can you point to any successes nationally? The Obama team are, however, keenly aware that Americans will eat a crap sandwich if given one bite at a time. Since Obama's sound thumping in 2014 he and his team have abused the notion that they care what the American people will buy- they are hoisting it upon America, and the world. Blow-back? If you realized what he was aiming for intermittent "blow-back" along the way would appear trivial.

I would take a cross section of pro and con opposite posters from Thai Visa and stack them up with the Kerry Team any day. For Obama, the negotiations are not an end in themselves but one more crown in inflicting his good upon the region. There is a reason Obama is seen as Iblis.

Edit: What is "the demonization process" and what are the "hidden dangers?"

Many of us have taken a loyalty oath to obey the orders of the President and are obligated. Treason is the other option.

We have supported the idea of the big bad Iranians for decades. They have been 2 years away from a nuclear bomb for 3 or 4 decades. That process of convincing the public is the demonization process which becomes the day job of pretty much every public official. In my lifetime it started with the soviets and communism and now is with the Islamic extreme countries/groups, but the Shias in particular.

I have never been an Obama fan. I don't really like his ways and ideas but I am obligated to his decisions. I guess I could forfeit my US citizenship and my commission but I can't imagine being pissed enough to do that.

I have the ideological luxury of not liking Israel and I clearly think Netanyahu is a nut job far worse than Obama and I have no obligation what-so-ever to Israel and its leadership. That may be a luxury you don't have and for that, you have my sympathies.

Allowing the Mainstream Media to demonize a country or a people to the extent we have done with Iran, sets the stage for blowback like we are seeing with this agreement. Agreeing to 3.67% enrichment is a good deal when it takes 90% for a nuclear weapon. Insisting on zero is not a negotiation, it is bullying.

Hiding behind your "commission" is kind o' lame. Your personal duties are completely irrelevant here, and not particularly impressive, if that's the effect you were going for. If you don't feel you can voice a sincere opinion that is your own, then don't voice one! Your oath of office, BTW, is to the Constitution of the U.S. Yes, you've sworn to obey the orders of those appointed over you, but it's not a Hitlerian "loyalty oath" to Obama personally. If you receive an order that conflicts with the Constitution, you're actually obligated to support and defend the Constitution, even against domestic enemies. whoever that might be... Yes, you have to carry out his policies if so ordered - as long as they remain Constitutional - but you don't have to agree with them. Again, if you feel your oath hobbles your freedom of expression (and I know the military has acted on occasion in what some see as suppression of free speech), then what business do you have posting here about this at all?

"Treason is the other option". Option to what exactly? "Loyalty oath". It's an oath of office. And you took it voluntarily. Forfeiting citizenship & commission? Who the heck is asking you to do either? Bit of a drama queen, aren't we?

[CMNightRider]

Some here fail to realise there is more than just the US in the P5 +1 gang.

Bibi is out on his own along with the loony tunes right wingers on all sides. Good, they have done nothing but spread death,destruction and misery.

Most hope the deal is formalised and are looking/working for progress and peace, something Israel will have to deal with and suck up

Funny when something/anything moves towards a peaceful agreement the lunatic war supporters come out and cry foul.

Well, technically the US isn't involved. Its president is and he has no authority to speak for anyone but himself.

Sounds like you consider a president to be nothing more than the mascot of the US.

I never read where anyone suggested the president is a "mascot of the US." However, Obama is masquerading as a world leader, and is the most inept person to ever occupy the White House. Iran would love nothing more than to see the destruction of the US, and to wipe Israel off the map. The current sanctions on Iran were working. The only thing historic about this deal, is the Iranians can now continue developing a nuclear bomb without anymore sanctions.

[englishoak]

Deal with it.