Fear of international backlash on Article 44

[phuketandsee]

If only the Thai- people would understand, how ridiculous all this is....

They will but by then it will be too late. Probably is already.

[Mot Dang]

Government: "Foreigners may perceive [it] differently from Thais as they're looking at it from another perspective,"

​Foreign Diplomat: "So this is Thainess, that mysterious quality I always hear about ?"

Government: "Yes, you could say that."

Foreign Diplomat: "I can tell you what my perspective is in one word, dictatorship."

Government: "No, no. why doesn't falang governments understand our reasons for keeping the serfs where they should be, serving the elite. Why even teach them to read ? No read, no trouble"

Foreign Diplomat: "Guess the pain of 1,500 years of social development made us a bit more cautious."

Government: "So are we still friends comrade ?"

Foreign Diplomat: You've been talking to China way too much."

[Suffinator]

After Article 44 came under international fire, the government will tomorrow try to create a better understanding among foreign diplomats of Thailand's promotion of democracy and human rights.

So we can expect more propaganda ... I for one would like to read how they are going to spin totalitarian dictatorship control into democracy and human rights. Clearly Article 44 removes any such notions but I guess not in Prayut's mind.

"Foreigners may perceive [it] differently from Thais as they're looking at it from another perspective," he said.

Yes foreigners would view Article 44 as a direct assault on their liberty, right to freely express themselves, right to protest and all without persecution. How do the Thais view it?

Although Article 44 has been criticised as handing too much power to the chief of the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO), Wissanu said, Thais had experience with this kind of draconian law over several episodes, although the younger generation was not familiar with it.

So we agree that such an act is draconian ... so why use it? After all it's never worked towards peace, reconciliation or democracy so why revisit the past when the past clearly shows that such measure can never work in a civilized society ... or is the minister attempting to tell the world that Thai society is not civilized enough for democracy?

"Article 44, however, cannot be applied to harm anybody until it is used," Wissanu said.

What? So it can't be used to harm someone until it's actually invoked and then it's ok to harm a person using Article 44? Clarify please.

"If we compare Article 44 to a sword, it's like keeping it in its scabbard and wielding it only when necessary," he said.

Ah I see, so that pretty much clears up the question above ... the sword will be used when necessary. Question: Who decides when it's necessary?

"Otherwise, people might understand that they are cutting a deal for their own benefit," he said.

Shocking statement ... surely such a thing would never occur? Are you admitting that Thailand, or rather those running it, are corrupt to the core? Bit more clarification on this would be nice.

As for tomorrow's meeting with representatives from foreign missions and international organisations, it would be the responsibility of the NCPO and the Foreign Ministry to explain the content and the situation.

Good luck with that. I'm not sure how you can explain the use of Article 44 to western governments and the United Nations but no doubt you'll give it a shot.

Deputy government spokesman Sansern Kaewkumnerd reiterated that Suan Dusit Poll's survey of public confidence vis-a-vis the use of Article 44 showed that 51 per cent of the public was comfortable with the law.

If true then that's marginal at best. I wonder how many Burmese like living under a dictatorship ... maybe 51% of them are more than happy.

The NCPO has insisted that the application of Article 44 would be realised in a constructive manner, aimed at addressing problems related to security and the bureaucracy.

When you need force, often violent, there is nothing more destructive. We are looking at the ideology of a few being forced upon a nation; it's why dictatorships rarely work because it strips away the voice and choice of the individual.

2014 could well go down in the history books as one of the darkest eras in Thai history.

[JOC]

After Article 44 came under international fire, the government will tomorrow try to create a better understanding among foreign diplomats of Thailand's promotion of democracy and human rights.

Dear Mr P. Run the country the way you see fit, but please stop the pathetic attempts to justify your one-man-show!!

"Promotion of democracy and human rights" in the same sentence as Art 44??

Save your nonsense for domestic consumption!!

Despite your believes, not all foreigners are idiots!!

[JOC]

>>Wissanu said during a conference at Thammasat University's Institute of East Asian Studies that the article could not be directly used to harm an individual, as widely misunderstood.<< Quote

With the legislative, the executive and the judiciary branches in the hands of a little man, what is there to misunderstand?

With military courts used for civilians, what is there to misunderstand?

With free elections probably decades in the future, what is there to misunderstand?

With universities allowing themselves to be used for propaganda, what is there to misunderstand?

[Toknarok]

From OP "Analysts say Article 44 is similar to Article 17 enforced during Field Marshal Sarit Thanarats dictorial regime from the late 1960's to the early 1960's'

The actions of our present leader mirror those of Sarit almost identically to what happened nearly 60 years ago. Plus ca change.

Read about Sarit here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarit_Thanarat

Edited April 6, 2015 by Toknarok

[deckape]

Art 44 cannot be applied to harm anybody until it is used ? Clear so far ?

So when it is used anything goes ?

Riiight. And it took them about 3 hours before there was significant gumflapping about using article 44 to fix this and that.

From a movie I saw once...."I didn't think their guns were loaded"

"Well you were wrong, gins are always loaded".

[emilymat]

As an ex-military man the PM must be really disappointed the international community is marching out of step on this issue. Maybe he will get them to march the Thai way.

When I was in the army the only time we were ordered to march out of step was over a bridge.

I fear Thailand is marching over a bridge and. on the other side, is a deep abyss

[JOC]

From OP "Analysts say Article 44 is similar to Article 17 enforced during Field Marshal Sarit Thanarats dictorial regime from the late 1960's to the early 1960's'

The actions of our present leader mirror those of Sarit almost identically to what happened nearly 60 years ago. Plus ca change.

Read about Sarit here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarit_Thanarat

Thanks for the link.

Some interesting reading indeed.

Especially the parts about the institution!!

[Baerboxer]

From OP "Analysts say Article 44 is similar to Article 17 enforced during Field Marshal Sarit Thanarats dictorial regime from the late 1960's to the early 1960's'

The actions of our present leader mirror those of Sarit almost identically to what happened nearly 60 years ago. Plus ca change.

Read about Sarit here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarit_Thanarat

" from the late 1960's to the early 1960's'"

A clever trick indeed. Was he a time lord?

[Songhua]

Those embassy vehicles must be running low on fuel by now.

[Wilsonandson]

Public discussions about the interim constitution are prohibited by the NCPO.

[tbthailand]

giving this guy

Deputy Prime Minister Wissanu Krea-ngam

the microphone is not an improvement over the current 'PM and his foot-in-mouth disease.

[collingwood]

Must be why the tourists are flooding back since 44 was bought in, the sword is in the sheath...they must think the Educated world believe in their fairy tales, this government is a Walt Disney production........

[JOC]

May I propose a toast for our absent friends on this thread!!

[yellowboat]

Those embassy vehicles must be running low on fuel by now.

Given the frequency they are probably car pooling, or junior staffers are taking the klung boats to government house.

Think that scamming has become so endemic in Thai Government that they are truly surprised when they are taken to task. Very little difference between article 44 and martial law. Who did they think they were kidding ?

[casualbiker]

Art 44 cannot be applied to harm anybody until it is used ? Clear so far ?

So when it is used anything goes ?

Riiight. And it took them about 3 hours before there was significant gumflapping about using article 44 to fix this and that.

From a movie I saw once...."I didn't think their guns were loaded"

"Well you were wrong, gins are always loaded".

So far article 44 has already been used to allocate confiscated land to landless farming families for use!

Is that bad ?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/815109-PM-attends-first-'hand-out'-of-plots-to-landless-farmers-in-Chiang-Mai

PM attends first 'hand-out' of plots to landless farmers in Chiang Mai

Edited April 6, 2015 by casualbiker

[Snig27]

From OP "Analysts say Article 44 is similar to Article 17 enforced during Field Marshal Sarit Thanarats dictorial regime from the late 1960's to the early 1960's'

The actions of our present leader mirror those of Sarit almost identically to what happened nearly 60 years ago. Plus ca change.

Read about Sarit here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarit_Thanarat

Thanks for the link.

Some interesting reading indeed.

Especially the parts about the institution!!

That's a heavily sanitised version. Sarit was a monster who had a lot of blood on his hands. Still, he was but one in a string of military monsters that Thailand suffered under. Odd that such a man is touted as a role-model for this regime.

[Snig27]

Art 44 cannot be applied to harm anybody until it is used ? Clear so far ?

So when it is used anything goes ?

Riiight. And it took them about 3 hours before there was significant gumflapping about using article 44 to fix this and that.

From a movie I saw once...."I didn't think their guns were loaded"

"Well you were wrong, gins are always loaded".

So far article 44 has already been used to allocate confiscated land to landless farming families for use!

Is that bad ?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/815109-PM-attends-first-'hand-out'-of-plots-to-landless-farmers-in-Chiang-Mai

PM attends first 'hand-out' of plots to landless farmers in Chiang Mai

Oh that's all right then - that's its intended use.

Reading that article (a bit of old fashioned Thaksin styled populism at work) one can only be comfortable that a single man, who, if his own words provide any evidence, has his screw increasingly looser every day, has unfettered authority (including the power of life and death - which he's already threatened to use several times) over some 67 million Thais.

[NeilSA1]

May I propose a toast for our absent friends on this thread!!

Cheers.

Seriously, foreigners have no political clout. Yes Article 44 is draconian, but who among you is scared and really feels threatened right now? Do you fear for your lives, and that of your families? If so, are you still living here or have you made evacuation plans ? (These questions are for those who are actually living in Thailand and not merely overseas 'scribes')

As has been noted by some of the posters, the Thais themselves seem to be calm and accept the current situation, which is lucky for Thailand. Thank God.

A rebellion can only end in disaster for everyone. We don't need hot headed, subversive elements to cause a rebellion. That will be pure madness at this point. Destruction and lives lost.

I never supported my country's government 20 years ago, and had to live through the awful period of terrorism, bombing etc in my home town, thankfully the eventual elections were peaceful, but people were very worried then, and many started hoarding food as a precaution to potential riots/civil war.

My fervent hope for Thailand is that this period of rule will end within a year, peacefully and with perhaps some remedial actions in place to reduce corruption and be of benefit to Thailand and those people living here. IMO we have to just monitor the situation, and although many people feel strongly about the current political situation, there hopefully will not be any incitement. - "...the action of provoking unlawful behavior or urging someone to behave unlawfully..."

[JOC]

Art 44 cannot be applied to harm anybody until it is used ? Clear so far ?

So when it is used anything goes ?

Riiight. And it took them about 3 hours before there was significant gumflapping about using article 44 to fix this and that.

From a movie I saw once...."I didn't think their guns were loaded"

"Well you were wrong, gins are always loaded".

So far article 44 has already been used to allocate confiscated land to landless farming families for use!

Is that bad ?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/815109-PM-attends-first-'hand-out'-of-plots-to-landless-farmers-in-Chiang-Mai

PM attends first 'hand-out' of plots to landless farmers in Chiang Mai

>>Around 1,000 people in Tambon Mae Tha in Mae On district greeted the prime minister at the handout ceremony at Wat Huai Sai School. The atmosphere of ceremony was reportedly happy and cheerful.

Security was tight also with up to 2,000 soldiers and police guarding the area. People attending had to pass through thermal scanners, be registered and put a sticker on for security reasons.<< Quote

For a leader with support of 90%+, that is a lot of security.

2 soldiers for each civilian!!

And the land he is giving away, is a communal forest!! Not his to give away!!

Oh silly me, Art 44

[FireMedic]

I wonder which staff officer has the job of filling in the general about how the rest of the world works. I would love to over hear those daily updates.

[Junkyarddog]

And here some of the content:

"The government may jail any person indefinitely without a trial."
"A person may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them. Citizens (labelled "unlawful combatants") can be held incommunicado and refused attorneys."

Fortunately this is NOT Article 44 of our constitution. That's part of the US PATRIOT ACT.
And citizens of that very democratic country with freedom of speech and personal liberty as you can see, are here in hordes to comment about our country.

[JOC]

And here some of the content:

"The government may jail any person indefinitely without a trial."

"A person may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them. Citizens (labelled "unlawful combatants") can be held incommunicado and refused attorneys."

Fortunately this is NOT Article 44 of our constitution. That's part of the US PATRIOT ACT.

And citizens of that very democratic country with freedom of speech and personal liberty as you can see, are here in hordes to comment about our country.

Being American and all, this might come as a surprise to you:

Thailand is not part of the US!!

[casualbiker]

Art 44 cannot be applied to harm anybody until it is used ? Clear so far ?

So when it is used anything goes ?

Riiight. And it took them about 3 hours before there was significant gumflapping about using article 44 to fix this and that.

From a movie I saw once...."I didn't think their guns were loaded"

"Well you were wrong, gins are always loaded".

So far article 44 has already been used to allocate confiscated land to landless farming families for use!

Is that bad ?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/815109-PM-attends-first-'hand-out'-of-plots-to-landless-farmers-in-Chiang-Mai

PM attends first 'hand-out' of plots to landless farmers in Chiang Mai

>>Around 1,000 people in Tambon Mae Tha in Mae On district greeted the prime minister at the handout ceremony at Wat Huai Sai School. The atmosphere of ceremony was reportedly happy and cheerful.

Security was tight also with up to 2,000 soldiers and police guarding the area. People attending had to pass through thermal scanners, be registered and put a sticker on for security reasons.<< Quote

For a leader with support of 90%+, that is a lot of security.

2 soldiers for each civilian!!

And the land he is giving away, is a communal forest!! Not his to give away!!

Oh silly me, Art 44

Actually it's reclaimed land within the national park area that is already used for other purposes. Hence the allowing landless farmers the use of.. No land is being given away, just the use of that land for farming. With a provision that the occupier helps look after other forest areas etc!

Again is it bad to do this.. Yes or No?

[Snig27]

So far article 44 has already been used to allocate confiscated land to landless farming families for use!

Is that bad ?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/815109-PM-attends-first-'hand-out'-of-plots-to-landless-farmers-in-Chiang-Mai

PM attends first 'hand-out' of plots to landless farmers in Chiang Mai

>>Around 1,000 people in Tambon Mae Tha in Mae On district greeted the prime minister at the handout ceremony at Wat Huai Sai School. The atmosphere of ceremony was reportedly happy and cheerful.

Security was tight also with up to 2,000 soldiers and police guarding the area. People attending had to pass through thermal scanners, be registered and put a sticker on for security reasons.<< Quote

For a leader with support of 90%+, that is a lot of security.

2 soldiers for each civilian!!

And the land he is giving away, is a communal forest!! Not his to give away!!

Oh silly me, Art 44

Again is it bad to do this.. Yes or No?

It's utterly irrelevant. What has been done in one action doesn't define or limit Art. 44.

[lavender19]

51 per cent of the public was comfortable with the law .Sounds like a Thai -Foreign company set up.

Thais had experience with this kind of draconian law over several episodes and are easily led like sheep.

Just add a little tashe

[wabothai]

After the whole world (except Thailand) has gone through a first and second

worldwar with millions of deaths mr Thailand finds it necessary to explain his ways, because the world does not understand.

Incredible ..... or .......? Fill in the dots to your liking.

[Chris Lawrence]

'Without the balance, absolute power will corrupt absolutely.' Just a small quote that I thought was relevant to the discussion.

[Enoon]

And here some of the content:

"The government may jail any person indefinitely without a trial."

"A person may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them. Citizens (labelled "unlawful combatants") can be held incommunicado and refused attorneys."

Fortunately this is NOT Article 44 of our constitution. That's part of the US PATRIOT ACT.

And citizens of that very democratic country with freedom of speech and personal liberty as you can see, are here in hordes to comment about our country.

While there are some people who think that the Patriot Act was passed about 2 months too late (you do know what happened just over a month earlier?) there are those who think that the introduction of an absolutist, repressive "diktat", merely to preserve a highly partisan ruling authority will, by it's very imposition, provoke those acts that it claims to be seeking to avoid.

There are those who think that this is just another chapter in the ongoing, slow motion, unfolding tragedy, that is the history of the rump, of what used to be The Great Kingdom of Siam.

Discuss.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Enoon