British superbug outbreak 'could kill 80,000'

[JockPieandBeans]

I suggest you open your eyes, Jock, and read a bit more. Medicine-resistant bacteria are a far larger threat than your imagined Islamic "epidemic", which everyone know is what you're alluding to.

Try starting off with watching "War of the Worlds", published in 1897 (or reading it). It encapsulates the underlying idea nicely.

I suggest that you start being a realist.

I could give you a whole list of '' Epidemics '' that came to nothing. Other than to get '' Scientists '' more Government funding.

Remember when HIV / AIDS was going to destroy mankind ?

What about Avian Flu ?

I will cease there, I could go on forever.

'' War of the Worlds '' A Fiction / Fantasy just like the headline in the OP.

What a guy. You can read my mind. Your talents are clearly wasted on this forum. Just for the benefit of any doubt, you were way wide of the mark. There is a multitude of open topics where I can post what you think I alluded to. One poster was actually very close to the mark, but it was not you.

[Johpa]

I suggest you open your eyes, Jock, and read a bit more. Medicine-resistant bacteria are a far larger threat than your imagined Islamic "epidemic", which everyone know is what you're alluding to.

Try starting off with watching "War of the Worlds", published in 1897 (or reading it). It encapsulates the underlying idea nicely.

I suggest that you start being a realist.

I could give you a whole list of '' Epidemics '' that came to nothing. Other than to get '' Scientists '' more Government funding.

Remember when HIV / AIDS was going to destroy mankind ?

What about Avian Flu ?

I will cease there, I could go on forever.

Yes, best to cease as you clearly were not around Chiang Mai in the late 1980s and early 1990s when the AIDS was epidemic in the villages and funerals of men, women, and children who died of AIDS were a weekly event in populations numbering less than 10,000. You can be a realist and prepare, or be a denier and be happy that you are not yet afflicted with a virus for which your immune system has no response or, as in the case of HIV, does not even notice as HIV hides out in your helper T-cells. And then perhaps you might want to research the 1918 flu pandemic which killed of millions around the globe. As for avian flu, rest assured that it is mutating as I type as that is what viruses do, they mutate.

And then there are the bacterial infections that also mutate. Well all living things mutate, it is just that viruses and bacteria reproduce at a very rapid rate and thus mutate more often than mammals mutate during the same time span.

What they refer to as a "superbug" is really just a new genetic mutation of a known pathogen. As a realist with a somewhat above average understanding of the immune system (amongst other things I am CD20+) , I think 80,000 is an unrealistically low number of potential fatalities.

[JockPieandBeans]

I suggest you open your eyes, Jock, and read a bit more. Medicine-resistant bacteria are a far larger threat than your imagined Islamic "epidemic", which everyone know is what you're alluding to.

Try starting off with watching "War of the Worlds", published in 1897 (or reading it). It encapsulates the underlying idea nicely.

I suggest that you start being a realist.

I could give you a whole list of '' Epidemics '' that came to nothing. Other than to get '' Scientists '' more Government funding.

Remember when HIV / AIDS was going to destroy mankind ?

What about Avian Flu ?

I will cease there, I could go on forever.

Yes, best to cease as you clearly were not around Chiang Mai in the late 1980s and early 1990s when the AIDS was epidemic in the villages and funerals of men, women, and children who died of AIDS were a weekly event in populations numbering less than 10,000. You can be a realist and prepare, or be a denier and be happy that you are not yet afflicted with a virus for which your immune system has no response or, as in the case of HIV, does not even notice as HIV hides out in your helper T-cells. And then perhaps you might want to research the 1918 flu pandemic which killed of millions around the globe. As for avian flu, rest assured that it is mutating as I type as that is what viruses do, they mutate.

And then there are the bacterial infections that also mutate. Well all living things mutate, it is just that viruses and bacteria reproduce at a very rapid rate and thus mutate more often than mammals mutate during the same time span.

What they refer to as a "superbug" is really just a new genetic mutation of a known pathogen. As a realist with a somewhat above average understanding of the immune system (amongst other things I am CD20+) , I think 80,000 is an unrealistically low number of potential fatalities.

Are you just trying to be facetious ?

Nobody is trying to deny that AIDS / HIV has killed people. Go back a decade earlier than your example and the scientists were shouting for billions of dollars to find a cure or it would wipe out mankind. Didn't happen, sure people died and continue to do so, but there was no end of days that the scientists claimed.

Everything living organisms mutates, that is a fact. Again, nobody is denying that.

From the OP

Scientists are increasingly concerned about the impact of antimicrobial resistance (AMR), which makes routine antibiotics or antivirals drugs ineffective against diseases that have formerly been brought under control.

Scientists looking for funding, nothing more, nothing less. Government funding being cut to the bone. Lets create a panic and see how much money we can get.

Nothing new here.

As for Chiang Mai in the late 80's, no I wasn't there. In the mid 80's I was in Africa dealing with HIV / AIDS victims. Your lecture is not really needed as the topic is not AIDS / HIV related.

[geriatrickid]

All nice. Now answer me this. In the UK can you walk into any pharmacy and ask for an antibiotic without a prescription and get it? Cause here you can...but you already knew that. The first word out of any pharmacists mouth here is antibiotic...is the rest of Asia any different?

Valid point, but...........Japan, Taiwan, South Korea and Singapore manage things just a wee bit differently than the medical hub of Thailand.

[BigBadGeordie]

Salam Alakaim, to you all, so pleased to see that all the posts have now reached base level.

May your God go with you.

[Grouse]

Man, where is Watergate when you need it?

The major threat to the world in the foreseeable future is overpopulation.

We have seen so many introduced plagues in the last years that it is obvious someone, somewhere, is looking at a fix.

China 1.5 billion

India 1.1 billion

and there are others. At least China has a one child policy. India encourages more births and they will overtake China within a generation.

Wars have been shown not to kill them off fast enough.

Can somebody beam me up, please?

Malthusian catastrophy theory is discredited

[boomerangutang]

A preview of headlines of the future. Untreatable 'superbugs' already exist for several one-celled organisms, including TB and gonnoreah and staph.

Similar to extremist Muslim' attrocities, headlines for untreatable outbreaks will increase year by year.

However, one of the biggest scourges of humans is self-inflicted. Besides alcohol, I'm referring to sugar consumption. Not only is it epidemic ww and grossly fattening, it weakens the body - so whatever medical downturn comes along later, manifests much more debilitating than it would in a healthy body.

Americans are trying to take baby steps to lessen sugar intake, but the sugar industry is just too powerful. One example: NY's mayor Bloomburg proposing a ban on super-size cola drinks. Shortly after being instated, the ban was lifted due to pressure from Big Sugar. BS is arguably more harmful (and its lobbyists more powerful) than Big Tobacco ever was.

[cumgranosalum]

The report is about the effects of indiscriminate use of drugs and how to deal with them - especially antibiotics in humans and also so major concern, animals. THis poorly thought out use is already leading to drug resistant strains. As the report comes from the UK they mention effects in that country.

however they point out that the USA is one of the worst for using antibacterials in livestock and of course countries like Thailand where doctors and just about every pharmacy on the high street will sell you antibiotics without question are contributing to this potential disaster. Thailand is the only country I've stayed in where doctors - who should know better - prescribe antibiotics if you have a cold - IT'S A VIRUS FOR GOD'S SAKE!

Edited May 19, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

I suggest that you start being a realist.

I could give you a whole list of '' Epidemics '' that came to nothing. Other than to get '' Scientists '' more Government funding.

Remember when HIV / AIDS was going to destroy mankind ?

What about Avian Flu ?

I will cease there, I could go on forever.

Yes, best to cease as you clearly were not around Chiang Mai in the late 1980s and early 1990s when the AIDS was epidemic in the villages and funerals of men, women, and children who died of AIDS were a weekly event in populations numbering less than 10,000. You can be a realist and prepare, or be a denier and be happy that you are not yet afflicted with a virus for which your immune system has no response or, as in the case of HIV, does not even notice as HIV hides out in your helper T-cells. And then perhaps you might want to research the 1918 flu pandemic which killed of millions around the globe. As for avian flu, rest assured that it is mutating as I type as that is what viruses do, they mutate.

And then there are the bacterial infections that also mutate. Well all living things mutate, it is just that viruses and bacteria reproduce at a very rapid rate and thus mutate more often than mammals mutate during the same time span.

What they refer to as a "superbug" is really just a new genetic mutation of a known pathogen. As a realist with a somewhat above average understanding of the immune system (amongst other things I am CD20+) , I think 80,000 is an unrealistically low number of potential fatalities.

Are you just trying to be facetious ?

Nobody is trying to deny that AIDS / HIV has killed people. Go back a decade earlier than your example and the scientists were shouting for billions of dollars to find a cure or it would wipe out mankind. Didn't happen, sure people died and continue to do so, but there was no end of days that the scientists claimed.

Everything living organisms mutates, that is a fact. Again, nobody is denying that.

From the OP

Scientists are increasingly concerned about the impact of antimicrobial resistance (AMR), which makes routine antibiotics or antivirals drugs ineffective against diseases that have formerly been brought under control.

Scientists looking for funding, nothing more, nothing less. Government funding being cut to the bone. Lets create a panic and see how much money we can get.

Nothing new here.

As for Chiang Mai in the late 80's, no I wasn't there. In the mid 80's I was in Africa dealing with HIV / AIDS victims. Your lecture is not really needed as the topic is not AIDS / HIV related.

totally inaccurate - it is clear from your post you have absolutely no idea of what the report is about - may I suggest that before you repeat this rubbish you read the summary at least?

as for this comment "Nobody is trying to deny that AIDS / HIV has killed people. Go back a decade earlier than your example and the scientists were shouting for billions of dollars to find a cure or it would wipe out mankind. Didn't happen, sure people died and continue to do so, but there was no end of days that the scientists claimed." - te reason was that the funding has produced antivirals that are incredibly effective

[laolover88]

And in today's UK papers:

Consequent to the over use of antibiotics and the development of drug resistant strains of diseases, It will soon be too dangerous to perform caesarian operations, joint replacement, transplants and chemotherapy.

And on the other side of the thread Thailand is at least the fifth if not the fourth largest sugar producer after Brazil India and China. Must be grateful the UK does not grow sugar cane; but it does produce sugar beet. It was however highly instrumental in the development of the sugar industry in the Americas.

[jak2002003]

hmmm... I will worry about it IF it happens... I did not have to worry about....

Bird Flu

Swine Flu

Goat Flu

Mad cow disease

Foot and Mouth disease

Ebola

HIV / Aids

Typhoid

And all the rest.........

And now Super Bugs...

[pitrevie]

Apparently its based on something Darwin wrote about 150 years ago.Dr Ben Carson, Dr Ron Paul state things such as bacteria evolving is just a theory and Dr Paul Broun goes even further and states its from the pit of hell. This approach is supported by almost the entire GOP in the USA, its not proven science so nothing to worry about. As usual the vast majority of scientists say otherwise but they are probably all in on the scam.

[cumgranosalum]

So, this is a thread about a superbug that doesn't exist, but could exist?

If this is meant to scare the crap out of me, it's working. I am one of those people who is more scared of what might happen than what does happen!

No there are already drug resistant strains of bacteria...... they are on the increase and the increase is exponential. Be afraid, be very afraid.

[cumgranosalum]

Apparently its based on something Darwin wrote about 150 years ago.Dr Ben Carson, Dr Ron Paul state things such as bacteria evolving is just a theory and Dr Paul Broun goes even further and states its from the pit of hell. This approach is supported by almost the entire GOP in the USA, its not proven science so nothing to worry about. As usual the vast majority of scientists say otherwise but they are probably all in on the scam.

possibly the most fatuous post on the thread.......Various diseases (including HIV are already showing resistance to current drugs. It is not just bacteria. However bacteria are already shown to resistant in some common diseases.....

"

• There are high proportions of antibiotic resistance in bacteria that cause common infections (e.g. urinary tract infections, pneumonia, bloodstream infections) in all regions of the world. A high percentage of hospital-acquired infections are caused by highly resistant bacteria such as methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus(MRSA) or multidrug-resistant Gram-negative bacteria.
• Treatment failures due to resistance to treatments of last resort for gonorrhoea (third-generation cephalosporins) have been reported from 10 countries. Gonorrhoea may soon become untreatable as no vaccines or new drugs are in development" - WHO...

[cumgranosalum]

If action is not taken we are on the verge of a new era....

The old era will be from about 1940 to 2020 - it will be the era when scientific drugs worked.

The new era will be the era without effective drugs.

That means returning to a time when STDs, measles, smallpox minor cuts and abrasions, broken bone etc etc could be fatal......the only treatment will be a succession of painkillers until death........

[cumgranosalum]

hmmm... I will worry about it IF it happens... I did not have to worry about....

Bird Flu

Swine Flu

Goat Flu

Mad cow disease

Foot and Mouth disease

Ebola

HIV / Aids

Typhoid

And all the rest.........

And now Super Bugs...

the reason you "did not have to worry" was that science understands the mechanisms of these diseases and appropriate action was taken (and drugs developed) thus preventing a disaster on the scale of the flu pandemics of the late 19th and early 20th centuries that killed MILLIONS of people.

"resulted in the deaths of 50 to 100 million (three to five percent of the world's population)" - wiki About 500 million people were infected..

It is NOT a disease that is predicted though, it is the ability to COPE with a future disease that is severely affected.....which could lead to a return of pandemics like the H1N1 flus mentioned above.

thailand with it's over prescription of drugs and second rate medical system is likely to be one of the most affected in a situation like this - just as they were whe they originally denied the existance of AIDS in the country....allowing a large number of unnecessary infections.

[Rancid]

Perhaps a pharmaceutical company will come up with a new type of antibiotic at the last minute. Naturally though, due to research costs, they will be forced to sell it to governments at an exorbitant price.

[cumgranosalum]

Perhaps a pharmaceutical company will come up with a new type of antibiotic at the last minute. Naturally though, due to research costs, they will be forced to sell it to governments at an exorbitant price.

The ignorance displayed on this thread is quite breathtaking. Clinging to childish conspiracy theories is just not what this is about

Research on this is not carried out by pharmaceutical companies.

this report is actually and economic report - so it would seem that you haven't read or understood any of that either.

...and the hope that "scientists" will come up with a "cure" at the last minute shows further you have absolutely no grasp iof what this report is about........they would need to cure EVERY DISEASE we know all over again ...at the last minute - you seriously think that is a possibility????

You need to sort out the difference between "big pharma" and scientific research.

May I suggest you read "bad Science" by Ben Goldacre before you continue up this totally ill-informed line of argument?

[ilostmypassword]

. At least China has a one child policy.

Not anymore.

[ilostmypassword]

Be mostly old people i would suspect!!

Strangely enough the biggest 'flu' killer in the history of man, 1918 called Spanish Flu, didn't kill the old, infirm or the young.

Those who died were mainly healthy men and women in their 20s-40s.

Flu is irrelevant to this discussion since viruses are not affected by antibiotics.

[cumgranosalum]

I suggest you open your eyes, Jock, and read a bit more. Medicine-resistant bacteria are a far larger threat than your imagined Islamic "epidemic", which everyone know is what you're alluding to.

Try starting off with watching "War of the Worlds", published in 1897 (or reading it). It encapsulates the underlying idea nicely.

I suggest that you start being a realist.

I could give you a whole list of '' Epidemics '' that came to nothing. Other than to get '' Scientists '' more Government funding.

Remember when HIV / AIDS was going to destroy mankind ?

What about Avian Flu ?

I will cease there, I could go on forever.

'' War of the Worlds '' A Fiction / Fantasy just like the headline in the OP.

What a guy. You can read my mind. Your talents are clearly wasted on this forum. Just for the benefit of any doubt, you were way wide of the mark. There is a multitude of open topics where I can post what you think I alluded to. One poster was actually very close to the mark, but it was not you.

Completely daft! The diseases - usually pandemics came to LESS because science was able to deal with them....just check out pandemics of the 19th century and before to get an idea what happens if we don't deal with them.

[cumgranosalum]

So, this is a thread about a superbug that doesn't exist, but could exist?

If this is meant to scare the crap out of me, it's working. I am one of those people who is more scared of what might happen than what does happen!

No! It isn't - it is about antimicrobial resistance - this is the loss of our ability to treat MANY different diseseas

[ilostmypassword]

Antibiotics are for infections...not viruses..such as the flu. You would need prevention, such as vaccinations.

Influenza is indeed a viral disease. Antibiotics can be used to fight many types of afflictions including flu. Infections, swelling and reddening, are usually a symptom of your innate immune system responding to a foreign agent with limited success. Antibiotics are commonly used to either supplement or complement your adaptive immune system (B-cells and T-cells) which normally makes its own antibiotics. Be thankful that you have not had to learn this stuff that I have greatly over simplified..

Antibiotics do not fight infections caused by viruses like colds, flu, most sore throats, bronchitis, and many sinus and ear infections.

http://www.cdc.gov/features/getsmart/

Edited May 20, 2016 by ilostmypassword

[cumgranosalum]

Be mostly old people i would suspect!!

Strangely enough the biggest 'flu' killer in the history of man, 1918 called Spanish Flu, didn't kill the old, infirm or the young.

Those who died were mainly healthy men and women in their 20s-40s.

Flu is irrelevant to this discussion since viruses are not affected by antibiotics.

Yet another breathtakingly ignorant comment.

This report is about ANTIMICROBIALS - it includes all types of disease!

WHO

"Antimicrobial resistance is resistance of a microorganism to an antimicrobial drug that was originally effective for treatment of infections caused by it.

Resistant microorganisms (including bacteria, fungi, viruses and parasites) are able to withstand attack by antimicrobial drugs, such as antibacterial drugs (e.g. antibiotics), antifungals, antivirals, and antimalarials, so that standard treatments become ineffective and infections persist, increasing the risk of spread to others.

[cumgranosalum]

Antibiotics are for infections...not viruses..such as the flu. You would need prevention, such as vaccinations.

Influenza is indeed a viral disease. Antibiotics can be used to fight many types of afflictions including flu. Infections, swelling and reddening, are usually a symptom of your innate immune system responding to a foreign agent with limited success. Antibiotics are commonly used to either supplement or complement your adaptive immune system (B-cells and T-cells) which normally makes its own antibiotics. Be thankful that you have not had to learn this stuff that I have greatly over simplified..

Antibiotics do not fight infections caused by viruses like colds, flu, most sore throats, bronchitis, and many sinus and ear infections.

http://www.cdc.gov/features/getsmart/

Which would be fine if that is what the report is about - BUT IT ISN"T! - it is about antimicrobials and our ability to handle ALL diseases - why not just take some time and read the report or at least just the tile?

[ilostmypassword]

If action is not taken we are on the verge of a new era....

The old era will be from about 1940 to 2020 - it will be the era when scientific drugs worked.

The new era will be the era without effective drugs.

That means returning to a time when STDs, measles, smallpox minor cuts and abrasions, broken bone etc etc could be fatal......the only treatment will be a succession of painkillers until death........

Actually there are currently very effective treatments for bacterial infections. They're called bacteriophages or phages for short.. Phages are viruses that infect and kill bacteria. They are a bit harder to prescribe because they are not a broad spectrum treatment like antibiotics but actually offer the possibility of a virtually bulletproof cure for bacterial. infections. They are stilled used in some parts of eastern europe. Actually their use preceded antibiotics but when antibiotics were discovered they were so much easier to use that most phage research just evaporated. That research is resurgent now. And the reason I used the word "bulletproof" is because typical phage treatments don't just include one type of virus but many. So even if a bacterium mutates to defend itself against one kind of virus, the others will kill it anyway. The odds against a bacterium mutating all the defenses it would need are vanishingly small even over long spans of time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy

[ilostmypassword]

Antibiotics are for infections...not viruses..such as the flu. You would need prevention, such as vaccinations.

Influenza is indeed a viral disease. Antibiotics can be used to fight many types of afflictions including flu. Infections, swelling and reddening, are usually a symptom of your innate immune system responding to a foreign agent with limited success. Antibiotics are commonly used to either supplement or complement your adaptive immune system (B-cells and T-cells) which normally makes its own antibiotics. Be thankful that you have not had to learn this stuff that I have greatly over simplified..

Antibiotics do not fight infections caused by viruses like colds, flu, most sore throats, bronchitis, and many sinus and ear infections.

http://www.cdc.gov/features/getsmart/

Which would be fine if that is what the report is about - BUT IT ISN"T! - it is about antimicrobials and our ability to handle ALL diseases - why not just take some time and read the report or at least just the tile?

I was responding to Johpa's asserion that "Antibiotics can be used to fight many types of afflictions including the flue" Why don't you take the time to read the comments before you mouth off?

[ilostmypassword]

The real problem as far as bacterial infections go is that there's no economic motive for drug companies to invest in phages. They can't be patented because they're already alive. I guess they could alter a single strain or a few strains and so be patented but the real beauty of phages is that you can dose someone with many kinds at once.

[cumgranosalum]

If action is not taken we are on the verge of a new era....

The old era will be from about 1940 to 2020 - it will be the era when scientific drugs worked.

The new era will be the era without effective drugs.

That means returning to a time when STDs, measles, smallpox minor cuts and abrasions, broken bone etc etc could be fatal......the only treatment will be a succession of painkillers until death........

Actually there are currently very effective treatments for bacterial infections. They're called bacteriophages or phages for short.. Phages are viruses that infect and kill bacteria. They are a bit harder to prescribe because they are not a broad spectrum treatment like antibiotics but actually offer the possibility of a virtually bulletproof cure for bacterial. infections. They are stilled used in some parts of eastern europe. Actually their use preceded antibiotics but when antibiotics were discovered they were so much easier to use that most phage research just evaporated. That research is resurgent now. And the reason I used the word "bulletproof" is because typical phage treatments don't just include one type of virus but many. So even if a bacterium mutates to defend itself against one kind of virus, the others will kill it anyway. The odds against a bacterium mutating all the defenses it would need are vanishingly small even over long spans of time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy

I'm more and more aghast at your total ignorance of this topic.

you are now talking about a way of killing bacteria - it was obvious from your earlier posts that you have no idea of what "antimicrobial" means and you haven't bothered to find out so you now try to sidetrack the issue by talking about something else you clearly don't understand i.e. bacteriophages.

Why not just admit it you haven't read the report, you don't understand the issues and stop posting nonsense?

[Koosdedooes]

I am suprised Cameron never suggested that if Brexit suceeds 23% of British population will die from this superbug

Just realised the source of this "story" more hysterical scaremongering stories from the telegraph and suppose headline news in the mail as well ?

Hardly reputable newspapers in the UK

Edited May 20, 2016 by Koosdedooes