Permission To Stay For My Dutch Daughter, Confusion Galore!? Required Yes Or No?

[cnxpat]

This is a long story, but I want to get the details right, hope someone has a clue (Thai immigration doesn't seem to have).

Today we went to Kap Choeng immigration (near Surin) to get an new 1 year "permission" to stay for our daughter.

My daughter was born in Bangkok, just over 3 years ago now, we've always lived in Thailand, and as I (her father) am Dutch, she has Dutch nationality, and a Dutch passport (nothing to be proud of, but at the time I thought it was a good idea). As we went to visit my mum 1,5 years ago, we travelled to Holland, and came back after a few months.

Upon arrival in BKK, my daughter got a 30 days visa on entry. "Admitted 15/08/2005" "Until 13/09/2005".

As advised, and as friends in similar situations have told me, we went to immigration in Chiang Mai, paid 1,900 THB and have reported dutily every 3 months at immigration in Chiang Mai. This now has expired. She's been here over a year now.

Last time we reported in Chiang Mai was June 5, 2006, and expired today, so the paper attached to her passport says "report back Sept. 4 2006" (and fill out a new form for the next 3 months) and in this case, pay another 1,900 THB for another year.

One thing I overlooked was the "Permission to stay/Applicant must leave the country" stamp issued the first time at immigration Chiang Mai Sep 12, 2005 (when we paid the 1,900 THB), and ended August 14, 2006 (1 year after initial entry in Thailand on her 30 day tourist visa). That is my mistake, I just kept the "report back on Sep. 4" in my diary.

Before moving to Buri Ram about 2 months ago, we went to immigration Chiang Mai to report our "change of address" which seems to be the reason for having to report every 90 days. The obvious "May Mi Panhaa" (no problem, just go to the nearest immigration office on the date indicated. "Are you sure?". "Sure, have a good trip and be happy in Buri Ram").

So Kap Choeng today, Sep. 4. the same "May Mi Panhaa" was told, and "No, you don't need to do this, report here, get the paper, pay the 1,900 THB, or anything until she is 14 yo."

In the same conversation, the immigration officer mentioned "Yeesib wan, Haa roi baht" adding up to an overstay penalty of 1 mueng THB. 20 days (Aug 14. 2006 until today), 500/day (she needed a calculator of course, but I figured it out before that) but yes, that adds up to 10K.

I asked for a reconfirmation, no problem, she's not 14 yet, you don't need this, so I kept my 1,900 THB in the pocket, and the 10K, and "May Mi Panhaa! (MMP)". The 10K was mentioned again, so I got the point, and off we went, had a puncture on the way back but that's besides the point.

Now I know there is something wrong in this picture.

(Anytime immigration (say Suan Plu) tells me "MMP", I HAVE a problem in say Mae Sai. Immigration Chiang Mai tells me "MMP", I do have a problem somewhere else.)

So to the point, my daughter has an entry stamp for 30 days in her passport, (expired sept 2005).

I thought I did the right thing starting Sept last year doing the 1,900 THB permission to stay for each year. Though it is probably correct that in 11 years (when she's 14) "MMP", but if I want to go somewhere with my daughter, will immigration fine me (her) 500/day with a max of 20,000 for overstay!?

What if we get her a Thai passport, which we never really bothered to do, leave on that, enter somewhere else on the Dutch one, and return on the Thai one?

Should I push things and try to get the 1,900 THB back from Chiang Mai immigration (I know, that's pushing things, don't take it too seriously, but just for arguments sake)

Right now, I am happy, saved 1,900 THB, got a good sunburn on the bike to and from Kap Choeng, and had a chat with Martin and a nice lunch in the Farang Connection in Surin, but in the end of the day, there's still an entry stamp in my daughters passport, and there will be no exit stamp, neither will there be a valid "permission to stay" paper. And there will still be a record of my daughter, entering the Kingdom August 2005, and she never left.

Food for thought I guess, I am not too much worried, but if anyone could clarify!? Also, I have no plans of going anywhere with my daughter in the near future, yet 11 years is a timespan I can't plan ahead :-)

Knowing the inconsistency of immigration officers in various offices, does anyone have a clue what the policy is?

Another thought, why don't all the "MMP" immigration officers work at the border checkpoints!! :-)

[lopburi3]

I can't honestly say I could follow your story as my eyes seem to have reached there limit for the day and you have a saga. But it appears you have a child that you should obtain a Thai passport for and exit with the Dutch one to get rid of the 30 day/extensions of stay and then come back using the Thai passport where she will not have to worry about visas/extensions or even passports until the next time. And the next time you will use Thai passport for Thailand.

[cnxpat]

I can't honestly say I could follow your story as my eyes seem to have reached there limit for the day and you have a saga. But it appears you have a child that you should obtain a Thai passport for and exit with the Dutch one to get rid of the 30 day/extensions of stay and then come back using the Thai passport where she will not have to worry about visas/extensions or even passports until the next time. And the next time you will use Thai passport for Thailand.

Sorry mate, it is a lot of info, I will try to summarise it, also past my limit today though.

btw as far as I can follow you, you're summed it up and left the confusing history out :-)

More to follow, will try better tomorrow!

[samran]

agree with Lop. However, doing the passport swap will have to be done by air. Trying it at land borders generally does't work in my expereince.