Prayut says Section 44 not enough to resolve long standing fishing industry problem

[rubl]

The EU would not impose a timeframe (6 months) which is impossible for a friendly country like Thailand to achieve if that country is competent and totally serious about the issue.

The problem is, the leaders of Thailand have no clue on planning/strategy/implementation/enforcing/auditing/transparency/verification.

All the leader is capable of is hollow rhetoric, justifying a coup as the only solution to resolve all problems, then justifying martial law, then justifying Article 44 as a necessary tool .... which, now he admits, does not solve the issue.

Thailand needs a leader with vision and leadership. Prayuth is batting above his ability - he would be better as the chief henchman rather than the big boss.

Any particular 'leader with vision and leadership' you would recommend?

BTW the "long standing fishing industry problem" suggest all of the 'old' leaders fall under your "have no clue on planning/strategy/implementation/enforcing/auditing/transparency/verification"

[rubl]

'He said there still has problems of unregistered fishing boats and business operstirs still employ illegal migrant workers to work'

I dislike the way that the good general still refuses to acknowledge that the problem is slavery on ships, not that the migrant slave workers don't have work permits. He continually obfuscates and tries to move the issues while failing to address the core issue of slavery.....of cops picking up migrants, selling them to brokers who sell them to ship captains, who then make them work for no pay. Whether these slaves have work permits is neither here nor there....they are <deleted> slaves for goodness sakes...it is a fundamental human right issue.

First he tried to make out that sex workers were the problem in trafficking, then lack of documentation of migrants, then more committees, then GPS on fishing boats....the GPS is useless, it will be turned off as frequently as taxi meters are turned off in Bangkok. Since it is obvious by now that he has no intention of addressing the real core issue of slavery on the ships then the EU (and the US) will, in time, inevitably slap sanctions on Thai seafood products and maybe other goods as well. It must also be obvious that some fairly heavy hitters in Thai society are benefitting from the slavery, hence the reluctance to address it.

Regarding the use of section 44....he can instruct the Thai navy and Marine police to intercept all fishing vessels in Thai waters and check for slaves on board...this can be done today.

Interesting how junta heavy handedness is sometimes recommended and at other times condemned, all depending on the subject and target

[nidieunimaitre]

'He said there still has problems of unregistered fishing boats and business operstirs still employ illegal migrant workers to work'

I dislike the way that the good general still refuses to acknowledge that the problem is slavery on ships, not that the migrant slave workers don't have work permits. He continually obfuscates and tries to move the issues while failing to address the core issue of slavery.....of cops picking up migrants, selling them to brokers who sell them to ship captains, who then make them work for no pay. Whether these slaves have work permits is neither here nor there....they are <deleted> slaves for goodness sakes...it is a fundamental human right issue.

First he tried to make out that sex workers were the problem in trafficking, then lack of documentation of migrants, then more committees, then GPS on fishing boats....the GPS is useless, it will be turned off as frequently as taxi meters are turned off in Bangkok. Since it is obvious by now that he has no intention of addressing the real core issue of slavery on the ships then the EU (and the US) will, in time, inevitably slap sanctions on Thai seafood products and maybe other goods as well. It must also be obvious that some fairly heavy hitters in Thai society are benefitting from the slavery, hence the reluctance to address it.

Regarding the use of section 44....he can instruct the Thai navy and Marine police to intercept all fishing vessels in Thai waters and check for slaves on board...this can be done today.

Interesting how junta heavy handedness is sometimes recommended and at other times condemned, all depending on the subject and target

1/ Thailand does not need junta heavy handedness, just heavy handedness.

2/ Yes, depending on the subject and target, Thailand needs or does not need heavy handedness.

3/ Your leitmotiv is clearly: "those against yellows and dictators must all be reds".. It troubles your vision...., and besides, red is a weird color for the man you love to hate so much, it clearly confuses many people.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Mr PM, put section 44 to good use Yes Thailand has many problems One being is This issue on taking jobs from Thai's Maybe if you allowed those Farangs the right To say pickup thrash on the beaches and put in plastic bags to be picked up by Thai's for recycle or dumped maybe the beaches and road sides would be cleaner and retired farangs can give back to the place they love and in return they get exercise they need. Farangs live in fear of doing something as simple as picking up a discarded plastic bottle for fear it will be seen as work. When it is meant as respect for where they are. Yes we are different but we can learn from each other by setting an example. If Thai's see farangs doing it then they will do it soon Thailand is clean then tourism goes up.

It is the reason why I leave my mess for the maid to clean. If I tidy up a bit then I'm doing her work and on a tourist visa you are prohibited to work. I'm not a trash man Farang here to pickup other people's trash. If everyone practice cleanliness then beaches and other public places would be void of trash. If you are a Farang even charity work is illegal.

[NongKhaiKid]

Is he saying that the situation is so out of control or, for many reasons, too difficult to be sorted that even his Absolute Control under Art 44 isn't enough ?

Standby for an extension plea and the usual ' you don't understand ' whinge.

[fareastguy]

He's quite correct, he doesn't need to invoke "article 44" to solve this issue.

He needs to remove the fisheries minister & hand the job over to someone who hasn't got his hand in the till & his head in the sand!!

He also needs to get the message across to all owners/skippers of the trawlers.. break the law you go to jail !!!

[BSJ]

I smell BS! He has Article 44 which gives him almost god like power and now he is saying it's not going to work.......

He needs to have a word or 3 with the big boy in the fishing industry and show people no-one is immune from Article 44.

[Thai at Heart]

Still don't understand why this is so insurmountable.

[NongKhaiKid]

I smell BS! He has Article 44 which gives him almost god like power and now he is saying it's not going to work.......

He needs to have a word or 3 with the big boy in the fishing industry and show people no-one is immune from Article 44.

Yes but can i suggest the phrase ' big boys ' might be at the centre of things depending on who they are ?

[FangFerang]

How's this headline?

"Section 44 will not fix my friends."

[tx22cb]

The EU would not impose a timeframe (6 months) which is impossible for a friendly country like Thailand to achieve if that country is competent and totally serious about the issue.

The problem is, the leaders of Thailand have no clue on planning/strategy/implementation/enforcing/auditing/transparency/verification.

All the leader is capable of is hollow rhetoric, justifying a coup as the only solution to resolve all problems, then justifying martial law, then justifying Article 44 as a necessary tool .... which, now he admits, does not solve the issue.

Thailand needs a leader with vision and leadership. Prayuth is batting above his ability - he would be better as the chief henchman rather than the big boss.

Any particular 'leader with vision and leadership' you would recommend?

BTW the "long standing fishing industry problem" suggest all of the 'old' leaders fall under your "have no clue on planning/strategy/implementation/enforcing/auditing/transparency/verification"

I'm afraid I don't know enough about Thailand to recommend a specific candidate - my comment was a generic one.

Prayuth has said that this problem is a top national priority, with billions at stake. Yet he chooses to believe his Minister/Advisors who have told him that it's impossible.

Prayuth's tactic to deal with foreign criticism is to invite Ambassadors for a briefing and for Thai Embassy staff overseas to "explain" the unique Thainess situation - i.e. excuses rather than action.

Prayuth is also trapped into his military mindset of only trusting his Generals - there are several competent civilian experts with professional competence/experience that he could use.

Perhaps Prayuth can swallow his pride and appoint, say, Korn, to lead a special taskforce on this. At least Korn has the intellectual capacity to go about tackling complex issues annd operate on the world stage. Of the little I know of him, Korn definitely has the leadership level required, and he has less "baggage" than most.

[junk1e]

Yet again I am impressed by the General. He knows the scope of his powers and what he can and cannot do with them. The Thai people have a choice, stick with the general for a while longer in the hope that he can start to solve some of Thailand's deeply engrained problems, or have quick elections and see life return to normal and everything can carry on as before.

Totally agree. The average Thai is far more intelligent than the average poster on this forum. Thailand was heading for civil war and corruption was going through the roof. Will take many years to put everything right here but the General has made a good start in my opinion, and appears the vast majority of Thai people which is what counts agree.

[yellowboat]

Typical of the Junta logic. Why Junta wants to solve the fishing industry problem is NOT compassion with the slaves or stop the Thai boats owners. This is :

1- because European nations rumble.

2 - Junta has headache.

A bit unfair. It's more "Thai government" logic, or maybe just Thai logic.

Still without a need to have 'political' compromises the relevant Ministries could make a multi-year plan to tackle the problem (which may be just enforcing existing laws) and discuss such plan with the EU. Especially when the execution of the plan is started this year the EU would probably be lenient enough to put new measures against Thailand on hold. IMHO

Powerful Thais run the fishing industry and they are above the law in Thailand. They are not International law. It would be great to identify these people and subject them to International law. They will never be punished in Thailand. That is why 44 is useless.

[selftaopath]

Typical of the Junta logic. Why Junta wants to solve the fishing industry problem is NOT compassion with the slaves or stop the Thai boats owners. This is :

1- because European nations rumble.

2 - Junta has headache.

A bit unfair. It's more "Thai government" logic, or maybe just Thai logic.

Still without a need to have 'political' compromises the relevant Ministries could make a multi-year plan to tackle the problem (which may be just enforcing existing laws) and discuss such plan with the EU. Especially when the execution of the plan is started this year the EU would probably be lenient enough to put new measures against Thailand on hold. IMHO

Granted. However... enforcement is lacking or near non existent in LOS = Lack of Sanctions. There is very little bordering on NO RULE OF LAW in smile land.

[Emster23]

The unlimited power of Article 44 is only unlimited when he goes against enemies of his keepers. He dare not bite the hand that feeds him and got him to where he is. The puppet can't cut his own strings...

[aussieinthailand]

Are you listening to me members?

The EU, will impose a ban on exports from Thailand in 6 months.

I keep saying that over and over again.

Even our PM, has realised that by now.

Good for him.......he's learning..................

It's the fishing industry that needs to learn something... In seven months time they could all be going broke. They better wake up.

No it's the entire country that needs to learn that if the levels of corruption are sustained then Thailand will loose much more than just the seafood export industry.

Thailand is the third largest exporter of seafood??? dose anyone else see a problem here? when was the last time you went to the seafood market and didn't see under-size crabs and fish? like I said Thailand has a lot more to loose if they don't fix the problem..................

[selftaopath]

Hopefully the EU will cripple them, it the only way they will learn, even Prayut is just all mouth & the big corruption still goes on with no intention to be stopped.

the only way Thai's learn is through loss of money so bring it on EU and teach these idiots something.

AMEN.

[yellowboat]

Are you listening to me members?

The EU, will impose a ban on exports from Thailand in 6 months.

I keep saying that over and over again.

Even our PM, has realised that by now.

Good for him.......he's learning..................

He is not learning. He is being bullied into doing the right thing by the outside world. He is finding out just how puny his influence is outside of Thailand. The world has little patience for Thai elites and even less so under a military government. Would like to see more countries ban Thai sea food. Slavery is unacceptable.

[Old Man River]

Are you listening to me members?

The EU, will impose a ban on exports from Thailand in 6 months.

I keep saying that over and over again.

Even our PM, has realised that by now.

Good for him.......he's learning..................

It's the fishing industry that needs to learn something... In seven months time they could all be going broke. They better wake up.

Incorporate in countries with no bans and export from there.

I take it you mean import to a country with no bans?

But then that country will cop the bans instead of Thailand and i assume they will not want to cripple their own fishing industry (they would have to have one as a means of export). I can´t see any country wanting to go down that path and invite Thailand´s problems on themselves...

It's all about end product and sales. Incorporate, meet product standards and export. Edited April 26, 2015 by Old Man River

[chainarong]

Why should section 44 resolve the fishing industry problems , 44 is designed to control the people and the media and give ultimate power to the Junta , not overhaul a lame duck industry that is so behind in modern process and thinking you would need a section 69 to blow the Thai fishing fleet problems away , the good leader needs to get a grip on himself , you need a complete overhaul of the fishing system not the unsatisfactory friction effect , while I don't entertain the thought of giving away state secrets, I would suggest a rules rewrite on vessel standards and labour hiring regulations for starters.

[quandow]

Suffinator wrote:

"Loosely translated ... there's nothing I can do because if I start digging up the dirt on them they'll dig up the dirt on me .. quid pro quo."

I believe you hit the nail squarely on the head!

[rubl]

duplicate post, blanked on purpose

Edited April 26, 2015 by rubl

[rubl]

'He said there still has problems of unregistered fishing boats and business operstirs still employ illegal migrant workers to work'

I dislike the way that the good general still refuses to acknowledge that the problem is slavery on ships, not that the migrant slave workers don't have work permits. He continually obfuscates and tries to move the issues while failing to address the core issue of slavery.....of cops picking up migrants, selling them to brokers who sell them to ship captains, who then make them work for no pay. Whether these slaves have work permits is neither here nor there....they are <deleted> slaves for goodness sakes...it is a fundamental human right issue.

First he tried to make out that sex workers were the problem in trafficking, then lack of documentation of migrants, then more committees, then GPS on fishing boats....the GPS is useless, it will be turned off as frequently as taxi meters are turned off in Bangkok. Since it is obvious by now that he has no intention of addressing the real core issue of slavery on the ships then the EU (and the US) will, in time, inevitably slap sanctions on Thai seafood products and maybe other goods as well. It must also be obvious that some fairly heavy hitters in Thai society are benefitting from the slavery, hence the reluctance to address it.

Regarding the use of section 44....he can instruct the Thai navy and Marine police to intercept all fishing vessels in Thai waters and check for slaves on board...this can be done today.

Interesting how junta heavy handedness is sometimes recommended and at other times condemned, all depending on the subject and target

1/ Thailand does not need junta heavy handedness, just heavy handedness.

2/ Yes, depending on the subject and target, Thailand needs or does not need heavy handedness.

3/ Your leitmotiv is clearly: "those against yellows and dictators must all be reds".. It troubles your vision...., and besides, red is a weird color for the man you love to hate so much, it clearly confuses many people.

So, Thailand just needs heavy handedness at times. Would that be 'democratic' heavy handedness, or 'dictatorial', or another form you think may justify heavy handedness?

As for 3.), your assumption is incorrect. As such anything you base on assuming what is my 'guiding motif' is based incorrectly.

[NeilSA1]

Hopefully the EU will cripple them, it the only way they will learn, even Prayut is just all mouth & the big corruption still goes on with no intention to be stopped.

the only way Thai's learn is through loss of money so bring it on EU and teach these idiots something.

Do you live in Thailand, or are you saying this because any potential bans will not effect you?

Maybe he cares about people who are slaves. Maybe he cares about human trafficking.

Do you?

Perhaps he cares about cheap seafood, regardless if it required the toil of thousands of tortured slaves.

'He' doesn't care about cheap seafood, 'he' prefers to eat meat. 'He' cares about Thailand and its people.

The long existing problems which have been ignored for so long, re; fishing / slavery are both currently being addressed albeit it is going to be a very difficult task, but what the hell - let Thailand be crippled so that "these idiots" can be taught a lesson....

[rubl]

Typical of the Junta logic. Why Junta wants to solve the fishing industry problem is NOT compassion with the slaves or stop the Thai boats owners. This is :

1- because European nations rumble.

2 - Junta has headache.

A bit unfair. It's more "Thai government" logic, or maybe just Thai logic.

Still without a need to have 'political' compromises the relevant Ministries could make a multi-year plan to tackle the problem (which may be just enforcing existing laws) and discuss such plan with the EU. Especially when the execution of the plan is started this year the EU would probably be lenient enough to put new measures against Thailand on hold. IMHO

Powerful Thais run the fishing industry and they are above the law in Thailand. They are not International law. It would be great to identify these people and subject them to International law. They will never be punished in Thailand. That is why 44 is useless.

Well, then it's time to teach people that no one is above the law. I'm sure our dear criminal fugitive would agree with that. Now before you start with 'what about PM Prayut', I doubt asking him to report to the police would help. It would seem a UN Democracy Implementation and Enforcement Detachment is required.

[fareastguy]

What Prayut needs is a miracle to pull off what he's trying to achieve!!
Yes he is the new "broom" and he has to take responsibility for his position, but Junta or otherwise he cannot alone do the job...
He has inherited a mess which has been years in the making, and will take years to sort out.
He has ministers in place to do certain work, it's not for him "personally" to step in an do someone else's job every time a problem occurs.. however if a certain minister is found to be lacking in ability or or willingness to solve an issue then they should be removed from that position and replaced by some one with a mind-set to put things into order!

Be it the aviation sector, the fishing industry, human rights, smog in the north or corruption it must start from the top & work it's way down the ladder.
If the ministers are too close to the problem then maybe they should be distanced from the problem and allow others to carry out the duties as issued from above !!

[rubl]

Trying to be a bit objective it would seem we need

1.) identify all 'fishing' issues

2.) identify all laws, rules and regulations (aka LRR) which govern the 'fishing' issue

3.) identify where 'issues' are covered by law

4.) identify loopholes, missing LRR

5.) rewrite LRR from materiel gathered in the first few points

6.) enact LRR

7.) enforce LRR

A possible cleanup can only be a cleanup when both 'before' and 'after' can be compared and held against clear LRR

In the mean time actions can only be taken as far as 'issues' are against existing LRR as legal in Thailand. International Laws are difficult to enforce when not incorporated in the Thai legal framework.

[NeilSA1]

Hopefully the EU will cripple them, it the only way they will learn, even Prayut is just all mouth & the big corruption still goes on with no intention to be stopped.

the only way Thai's learn is through loss of money so bring it on EU and teach these idiots something.

Do you live in Thailand, or are you saying this because any potential bans will not effect you?

Maybe he cares about people who are slaves. Maybe he cares about human trafficking.

Do you?

Yes.............. I never indicated otherwise.

I was merely interested to know if BuckBee is a resident, or living outside of Thailand, so as to give relevant cognizance to his expressed hopes.

[Local Drunk]

Hopefully the EU will cripple them, it the only way they will learn, even Prayut is just all mouth & the big corruption still goes on with no intention to be stopped.

the only way Thai's learn is through loss of money so bring it on EU and teach these idiots something.

Sound's more like you want to teach the General a lesson more than any concern you have about corruption. ? Why don't you tell him that to his face?

? because he has a gun?

An excellent point to remember... I hope the Thai's get the idea.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Local Drunk

[rubl]

The EU would not impose a timeframe (6 months) which is impossible for a friendly country like Thailand to achieve if that country is competent and totally serious about the issue.

The problem is, the leaders of Thailand have no clue on planning/strategy/implementation/enforcing/auditing/transparency/verification.

All the leader is capable of is hollow rhetoric, justifying a coup as the only solution to resolve all problems, then justifying martial law, then justifying Article 44 as a necessary tool .... which, now he admits, does not solve the issue.

Thailand needs a leader with vision and leadership. Prayuth is batting above his ability - he would be better as the chief henchman rather than the big boss.

Any particular 'leader with vision and leadership' you would recommend?

BTW the "long standing fishing industry problem" suggest all of the 'old' leaders fall under your "have no clue on planning/strategy/implementation/enforcing/auditing/transparency/verification"

I'm afraid I don't know enough about Thailand to recommend a specific candidate - my comment was a generic one.

Prayuth has said that this problem is a top national priority, with billions at stake. Yet he chooses to believe his Minister/Advisors who have told him that it's impossible.

Prayuth's tactic to deal with foreign criticism is to invite Ambassadors for a briefing and for Thai Embassy staff overseas to "explain" the unique Thainess situation - i.e. excuses rather than action.

Prayuth is also trapped into his military mindset of only trusting his Generals - there are several competent civilian experts with professional competence/experience that he could use.

Perhaps Prayuth can swallow his pride and appoint, say, Korn, to lead a special taskforce on this. At least Korn has the intellectual capacity to go about tackling complex issues annd operate on the world stage. Of the little I know of him, Korn definitely has the leadership level required, and he has less "baggage" than most.

"I'm afraid I don't know enough about Thailand to recommend a specific candidate"

"Korn definitely has the leadership level required"

Right, you wrote that before you had your first cup of coffee?