Prayut says Section 44 not enough to resolve long standing fishing industry problem

[selftaopath]

Are you listening to me members?

The EU, will impose a ban on exports from Thailand in 6 months.

I keep saying that over and over again.

Even our PM, has realised that by now.

Good for him.......he's learning..................

It's the fishing industry that needs to learn something... In seven months time they could all be going broke. They better wake up.

The government can regulate conduct within its jurisdiction area - theoretical it can regulate conduct on vessels with Thai registration - but many of the boats do not have registration of where they were registered the registration has expired. One of the things the government can do is to provide other countries with the current registration of the Thai boats. The development of international agreements such as being developed with Indonesia will be crucial.

As stated by the PM article does not provide him with the power to do every thing and is further restricted by the extent to which the government is prepared to use it, If the PM uses it to its full potential then he will be accused of oppression, it he does any less then people will still criticise him.

As you stated it is time for the Industry to wake up to the realities if the situation. They are the major cause of the situation and they have the ability to make changes in the short term that will help to address the situation. If the buyer. processor and exporters were to take joint action the potential to make major improvements would be there, Refusing to buy fish from fishing organisation would hit the hip pockets of the worst offenders without causing an industry collapse that would impact the hardest on the poor, week and vulnerable.

Business internalise benefits and externalise cost as a matter of normal operation - the Thai fishing industry is a prime example of this. It would prefer that the government under took all the actions and bore all the costs. The PM statement that Article 44 alone will not fix all the issues would appear to be a shot across the bow of the industry telling them that they need to step up, however it will still need to play a large role in regulation and enforcement.

I believe that the EU is well aware of some of the dangers in banning imports (not exports - Costa, 55) include hurting those who they would claim to be trying to protect. It also makes very possible that sections of the Thai industry will relocate to other countries taking the problems and practices with them.

Please excuse my ignorance. If the fishing industry were to "reap what is sowed" and be banned from selling to other countries, who would be hurt? Wouldn't the oligarchy be effected much more than the little Thai man/woman? Therefore couldn't a "hands off" approach by the lol government of Thailand in essence assiste halting these illegal/immoral practices? It could also dis-allow for repercussions of retaliation to any who might be part of a "crack down"? Just wondering?

[EyesWideOpen]

This industry generates some serious money, so any crackdown

on it will be stepping on some elite toes for sure. So apparently

Prayut must have gotten the word to back off. But when the ban

actually takes effect, there will be a serious trail of tears....

[issanaus]

Whats wrong with the navy patrolling the waters, give a warning and then proceed to open fire on those that want to test the law

Solved in a few weeks!

Lets see. Most of the most problematic boats, crews and practices are happening outside Thai waters (because they have stuff their own fishing grounds). Charging into someone else's territorial water, sinking a few boats (causing pollution) that don't have Thai registration (therefor don't come under Thai authority. Kill a few of the crew in the process (may be not Thai) and may be the crew that are causing international concern.

What could go wrong!

[issanaus]

Are you listening to me members?

The EU, will impose a ban on exports from Thailand in 6 months.

I keep saying that over and over again.

Even our PM, has realised that by now.

Good for him.......he's learning..................

It's the fishing industry that needs to learn something... In seven months time they could all be going broke. They better wake up.

The government can regulate conduct within its jurisdiction area - theoretical it can regulate conduct on vessels with Thai registration - but many of the boats do not have registration of where they were registered the registration has expired. One of the things the government can do is to provide other countries with the current registration of the Thai boats. The development of international agreements such as being developed with Indonesia will be crucial.

As stated by the PM article does not provide him with the power to do every thing and is further restricted by the extent to which the government is prepared to use it, If the PM uses it to its full potential then he will be accused of oppression, it he does any less then people will still criticise him.

As you stated it is time for the Industry to wake up to the realities if the situation. They are the major cause of the situation and they have the ability to make changes in the short term that will help to address the situation. If the buyer. processor and exporters were to take joint action the potential to make major improvements would be there, Refusing to buy fish from fishing organisation would hit the hip pockets of the worst offenders without causing an industry collapse that would impact the hardest on the poor, week and vulnerable.

Business internalise benefits and externalise cost as a matter of normal operation - the Thai fishing industry is a prime example of this. It would prefer that the government under took all the actions and bore all the costs. The PM statement that Article 44 alone will not fix all the issues would appear to be a shot across the bow of the industry telling them that they need to step up, however it will still need to play a large role in regulation and enforcement.

I believe that the EU is well aware of some of the dangers in banning imports (not exports - Costa, 55) include hurting those who they would claim to be trying to protect. It also makes very possible that sections of the Thai industry will relocate to other countries taking the problems and practices with them.

Please excuse my ignorance. If the fishing industry were to "reap what is sowed" and be banned from selling to other countries, who would be hurt? Wouldn't the oligarchy be effected much more than the little Thai man/woman? Therefore couldn't a "hands off" approach by the lol government of Thailand in essence assiste halting these illegal/immoral practices? It could also dis-allow for repercussions of retaliation to any who might be part of a "crack down"? Just wondering?

I wish you were right - but is it always the poor and disempowered that get screwed much more than the rich and powerful. The "oligarchy" would be lose more money but some of the poor would lose every thing.

I am not suggesting a hands off approach - I know what the fishing industry had done around the world - I got out of the NSW (Aus) fishing industry because I could see the short sighted practices and the environment and financial effects of what was happening. Things have to change in the Thai industry and not just for the sake of the Thai people and economy. The effects are international and they are doing to overseas fishing grounds and the workers in the industry what they have done to their own.

Regulation and supervision by the government is a VERY necessary part of the solution - but equally the market for the fish coming off the boats can also effect complementary change (and quickly).

[Local Drunk]

Hopefully the EU will cripple them, it the only way they will learn, even Prayut is just all mouth & the big corruption still goes on with no intention to be stopped.

the only way Thai's learn is through loss of money so bring it on EU and teach these idiots something.

Sound's more like you want to teach the General a lesson more than any concern you have about corruption. ? Why don't you tell him that to his face?

Quite happily would but from his tantrums with reporters I doubt he would take it rationally ... problem is Prayut is not squeaky clean or motivated enough to really root out corruption, fishing mess just one area showing it up for the talk it is & giving him a migraine as EU not so easy whitewash with his dailly TV show ...

He's not the best at PR, I'll give you that. His TV broadcasts don't matter to the EEC any more than they matter to you. His actions have to speak a lot louder or the EEC will see the price of fish rise... and in this country that you live in will see a serious decline in revenue. It isn't something that a politician (and he isn't) can accomplish at all. Now what the EEC needs to understand is that he isn't a politician, and that he isn't going to kiss their ass with regard to some sort of pseudo promises of democracy. Unlike the EEC, he knows how things really work here. What has the EEC ever sorted out anyway?

[nidieunimaitre]

Hopefully the EU will cripple them, it the only way they will learn, even Prayut is just all mouth & the big corruption still goes on with no intention to be stopped.

the only way Thai's learn is through loss of money so bring it on EU and teach these idiots something.

Sound's more like you want to teach the General a lesson more than any concern you have about corruption. ? Why don't you tell him that to his face?

Quite happily would but from his tantrums with reporters I doubt he would take it rationally ... problem is Prayut is not squeaky clean or motivated enough to really root out corruption, fishing mess just one area showing it up for the talk it is & giving him a migraine as EU not so easy whitewash with his dailly TV show ...

He's not the best at PR, I'll give you that. His TV broadcasts don't matter to the EEC any more than they matter to you. His actions have to speak a lot louder or the EEC will see the price of fish rise... and in this country that you live in will see a serious decline in revenue. It isn't something that a politician (and he isn't) can accomplish at all. Now what the EEC needs to understand is that he isn't a politician, and that he isn't going to kiss their ass with regard to some sort of pseudo promises of democracy. Unlike the EEC, he knows how things really work here. What has the EEC ever sorted out anyway?

QUOTE: What has the EEC ever sorted out anyway?

The EEC - or EU as it is called nowadays, has sorted out the centuries old "tradition" of wars between France and Germany.

And yes, they screwed up many things too, but unlike our fathers, grandfathers, great grandfathers,... we did not have to join the slaughter.

Let' be grateful for that, in stead of whining about the EU.

[BuckBee]

Hopefully the EU will cripple them, it the only way they will learn, even Prayut is just all mouth & the big corruption still goes on with no intention to be stopped.

the only way Thai's learn is through loss of money so bring it on EU and teach these idiots something.

Sound's more like you want to teach the General a lesson more than any concern you have about corruption. ? Why don't you tell him that to his face?

Quite happily would but from his tantrums with reporters I doubt he would take it rationally ... problem is Prayut is not squeaky clean or motivated enough to really root out corruption, fishing mess just one area showing it up for the talk it is & giving him a migraine as EU not so easy whitewash with his dailly TV show ...

He's not the best at PR, I'll give you that. His TV broadcasts don't matter to the EEC any more than they matter to you. His actions have to speak a lot louder or the EEC will see the price of fish rise... and in this country that you live in will see a serious decline in revenue. It isn't something that a politician (and he isn't) can accomplish at all. Now what the EEC needs to understand is that he isn't a politician, and that he isn't going to kiss their ass with regard to some sort of pseudo promises of democracy. Unlike the EEC, he knows how things really work here. What has the EEC ever sorted out anyway?

What has all the Coups in Thailand accomplished ! No EU ass kissing needed, all he needs do is make a realistic effort in backing up his talk with action ...

[selftaopath]

Is he saying that the situation is so out of control or, for many reasons, too difficult to be sorted that even his Absolute Control under Art 44 isn't enough ?

Standby for an extension plea and the usual ' you don't understand ' whinge.

How can anybody in "their right mind" understand Thainess? Maybe it's just me but it constantly "boggles" mine.

[selftaopath]

Trying to be a bit objective it would seem we need

1.) identify all 'fishing' issues

2.) identify all laws, rules and regulations (aka LRR) which govern the 'fishing' issue

3.) identify where 'issues' are covered by law

4.) identify loopholes, missing LRR

5.) rewrite LRR from materiel gathered in the first few points

6.) enact LRR

7.) enforce LRR

A possible cleanup can only be a cleanup when both 'before' and 'after' can be compared and held against clear LRR

In the mean time actions can only be taken as far as 'issues' are against existing LRR as legal in Thailand. International Laws are difficult to enforce when not incorporated in the Thai legal framework.

Makes sense if the goal is change. My feeling is Thailand and practically everyone with power does NOT want change unless they benefit... Is there any LOVE for the Kingdom in their hearts? I think not. I also believe X pats living here care more a/b Thailand and her people than most.

[issanaus]

Trying to be a bit objective it would seem we need

1.) identify all 'fishing' issues

2.) identify all laws, rules and regulations (aka LRR) which govern the 'fishing' issue

3.) identify where 'issues' are covered by law

4.) identify loopholes, missing LRR

5.) rewrite LRR from materiel gathered in the first few points

6.) enact LRR

7.) enforce LRR

A possible cleanup can only be a cleanup when both 'before' and 'after' can be compared and held against clear LRR

In the mean time actions can only be taken as far as 'issues' are against existing LRR as legal in Thailand. International Laws are difficult to enforce when not incorporated in the Thai legal framework.

Makes sense if the goal is change. My feeling is Thailand and practically everyone with power does NOT want change unless they benefit... Is there any LOVE for the Kingdom in their hearts? I think not. I also believe X pats living here care more a/b Thailand and her people than most.

People fear change, change is unsatisfactory - it is stressful. For people to support change the reality of the situation must be that the situation is more satisfactory than the stress of change. This is part of the issue why Article 44 can not effect all the changes that are needed - 44 can change actions in some of the problem areas; but what happens when 44 is no longer in effect? For change to be lasting and possible to maintain then there needs to be changes in attitude - you can not force change in the way people think.

In the fishing industry no one wants to be the first to change as that will put them at a disadvantage compared to those who change first. The Industry will always be take in the direction of the most selfish and dishonest by the desire of the rest to survive economically. The only avenue for change is an agreement to change where laws and enforcement will ensure that the better operators are not disadvantaged. Pressures such as the threats coming from the EU will help those that can see the need for change - anyone with a brain can see that without change there will not be a Thai fishing industry in a few years.

Apart from market pressure the other big influence is and cause of uncertainty is the AIS as no one is really certain of its effects. Fishing is a reserved occupation in most countries in Asia - which makes it somewhat ironical that non-Thai crew are such a significant part of the workforce and part of the pressure that are being brought to bear by the international community. The silence from Burma (which would appear to be the largest contributor of non thai labour) tells a lot but what has happened behind the scenes in the interaction between Burma and Thai fishing fleet is indicative of future problems.

[Thai at Heart]

Of course they could threaten to voluntarily stop exports themselves.....