How can I be sure - not a Pirated copy ?

[JackisBack]

I purchased a brand new ASUS T200TA Transformer Book a few months ago and it came with a pre installed and activated copy of Windows 8.1 32Bit .

The touch screen stopped working so I took it into an authorized ASUS service center for a repair under warranty , to day when I went to pick up the repaired T200TA I was told that the main board had been replaced , on checking it was now working 100% , I then saw that instead of the original Windows 8.1 32Bit OS , the machine now had Windows 8.1 Pro installed on it , and it said that it was not activated . I told the service receptionist that the OS needs to be activated and it was not the original OS that was originally installed when I purchased the machine . I was told to leave the machine with them and to go back one hour later and every thing would be fine .


On returning I was told that the service center had to now keep the T200TA for a further week . When I originally left the TA200TA for repair several weeks ago , they did not ask for the charger unit and I'm sure the machine was sent away some where for repair , this time they did ask me to leave the charger unit , which makes me think that the engineer on site will some how either replace the OS or try to activate the new Windows 8.1 Pro version .


I have a feeling that after the repair the Windows 8.1 Pro that had been installed was in fact a pirate copy , thats why it was not activated .

I'm wondering when I do finally get to again pickup the repaired T200TA , how can I fully check to see if the Windows 8.1 Version is really genuine or not , there is no nearby internet connection I can use , I'm not too confidant at the answers I may get from the on site engineer .

[RichCor]

On newer machines, the Microsoft Windows Install Key (If Included) is 'embedded' in the BIOS firmware (a special program/instruction and system parameters stored in CMOS non-volatile memory that assist the computer in starting up / booting). Some Manufactures will also include the Microsoft Certificate of Authentication (COA) with the box accessories contents or a sticker affixed to the underside or battery compartment. Other OEMs don't even bother doing this any more.

Missing Windows Certificate of Authenticity

urtech website

The key is now contained in your BIOS in an encrypted hash (and on many BIOS’ you can’t even see the hash through the standard BIOS interface). In other words, not only do you no longer get backup disks or CD key’s, you just have to take your manufacturers word that they have a legal install.

This new validation process is called OEM ACTIVATION 3.0 (or OA3.0) . Under OA3, if you wipe/replace the hard drive and then install Windows 8, the operating system knows how to read and decrypt the license key from the BIOS and then SHOULD automatically activate the appropriate version (i.e. Home vs Professional).

You might ask yourself what happens if your BIOS \ motherboard dies and the hardware manufacturer (i.e. Dell, Samsung…) replaces it… what then? I found the following in in a formerly “internal only” Microsoft staff training document, which basically says, the manufacture is on the hook for new license key either in the BIOS or a COA sticker:

Replacement motherboards may or may not have a key ejected into them, particularly since the supplier would have pay for the key when ejecting it….

…In situations where the motherboard of a machine is replaced and the hard drive is

not

reimaged, the machine will be out of tolerance. OEMs are required to provide users with a replacement product key for activation in these situations. Activating the new product key should succeed.

…The overall process of OEM Activation utilizes the following process:

1. Microsoft generates and delivers OEM product keys to the OEM/Original Device Manufacturer (ODM). The OEM/ODM is responsible for securely storing these product keys

The OEM/ODM runs a Microsoft provided tool to construct the Microsoft proprietary payload to the ACPI Microsoft Data Management (MSDM) table

The OEM/ODM runs a BIOS/UEFI injection tool provided by the motherboard vendors or the in-house engineering team and injects the entire ACPI MSDM table into the motherboard.

The OEM/ODM then reports the machine information, including the injected product key data and the local hardware ID (HWID) to a Microsoft OEM Ops server that forwards them to the Microsoft Activation and Validation Servers (AVS).

The OEM/ODM ships the systems to end-users who activate and validate during (or after) the OOBE phase of setup.

If significant hardware changes occur, end-users may be required to reactivate their installation.

Volume licensing activation continues to be a separate procedure from OEM and retail activation. Because the OA 2.x bypass style activation will continue to exist in Windows 8 for Server editions, SPPSVC must check for the product key type and determine the appropriate activation path for OA 2.x vs. OA 3.0. The figure below shows the flow of SPPSVC activating OA 3.0 installations.

The OEM ships the operating system with a generic edition specific key in the image (this is similar to a GVLK but its for use by OEMs). At first boot, if that key is present, the sppsvc retrieves the unique key from firmware ( MSDM table), injects that into the machine and attempts to activate using that key. So if the MSDM table does not contain a key, only the generic key is installed, which cannot activate. If the edition installed as the image does not match the key in the MSDM table, it will fail to install since the edition is different.

Replacement motherboards may or may not have a key ejected into them, particularly since the supplier would have pay for the key when ejecting it.

[phazey]

No advice on your problem, but PLEASE ask for the faulty main board. Something sounds fishy to me.

Touch screen = driver or screen digitizer issue, i'm not sure how the mainboard would impact this. Yes there could be circuitry on the MB that handles this, but just in case, you are entitled to take away the faulty parts....insist on it.

Edited May 8, 2015 by phazey

[innerspace]

RichCor, not sure if your post relates to win8 (never installed it and never will) but if not the word "new" is deceiving.

However what you mentions sounds a little like a slick method of activation that is far from new and used by far more than just OEMs. Details ending there for obvious reasons...

[Chicog]

As Richcor said, if your machine came with an OEM install there should be a sticker on the machine identifying it with a license key.

Quite why they would need to reinstall Windows to repair hardware other than the hard disk I don't know.

Smells fishy to me, or at least inept.

[NeverSure]

I've never been allowed to keep a part that was replaced under warranty. The manufacturer had to get it back to pay/provide replacement and also wanted to diagnose the problem for product improvement.

Anyone can make the Windows installation appear and work as activated. If It's an authorized repair center that's pirating I would wonder why they didn't just fix within that hour you left it. If instead they are contacting Microsoft legitimately to change the replacement info to this mobo it can and should be done straight away. That doesn't track with them changing the OS though.

Nothing so far is adding up to why they need it for so long.

[NeverSure]

As RichCor said, the product key info is now hard coded in the bios making it hard to swab mobos - intended to stop multiple installations of the same copy.

I have a fairly new Toshiba laptop and I made a huge mistake when I first bought it. I wiped the HDD including the restore partition (stupid, stupid) to switch from 8.1 to 7. Only after I did that did I discover that some of the manufacturers of the hardware didn't make drivers for Win 7. I was stuck because I didn't either leave the r partition or image the whole thing. I was overconfident.

I had to contact Toshiba and buy a bootable restore thumb drive which they made for me to restore it to it's original. They had to make it due to my bios based on my serial number and records they had. I was down for about a month but at least I knew it was coming. Oh, it was around $40 but I don't remember exactly.

Maybe they have to get the restore deal from Asus who would "own" that right to install and could validate it.

PS. OEM versions are the ones that have this bios deal. I don't think that Pro or Enterprise do but I'm not sure about Pro.

[JackisBack]

Thanks every one for input

In my way of simplistic thinking , when you take a product in for repair that still under the manufactures warranty period , once the issue has been rectified , including the replacement of any parts , then the product should be returned in its full original state , including the same activated OS type .

To have the repaired machine returned and then for the machines owner to have to go through a possible reactivation process by him self , seems a little strange .

The T200TA came with no included CD/DVD at all , and looking at the original box that the machine came in and on the machine its self , there's no sticker showing a license key .

This photo is of the original Windows info , it makes no mention of the level of the OS ( Home / enterprise / Pro etc ) only that its 32Bit , which seems a little strange

From the original packing box

And this is part of the new paperwork that the engineer gave me yesterday , showning some thing about MB , which I think is Main Board , and LCD , which I'm assuming is the touch screen

Before the touch screen problem occurred I did make a full system backup to an external hard drive , but at this stage I'm not too sure if this may some how help .

I am not looking forward to going back to collect the T200TA , the service center , which all so repairs most other makes of electronics and is shown by Asus as one of their approved repair centers , the attitude of the people working there , shall we say does not instill the words good customer service .

The other downside to this experience is that its a 140 Km round trip for me to go to the repair center , so collecting the repaired T200TA and returning home only to find a problem with the OS , is not a happy thought .

So trying to make sure that every things ok before setting out on the long trip home , is some thing I would like to plan for in advance .

Ive just remembered that I have access to a nearby Lotus store free wifi , could having internet access help in any way .

[Pib]

This photo is of the original Windows info , it makes no mention of the level of the OS ( Home / enterprise / Pro etc ) only that its 32Bit , which seems a little strange

It says "Windows 8.1" at the very top...it's just the standard Win 8.1....probably all languages since it don't say single language also.

Like on my laptop I have "Windows 8.1 Single Language" bought here in Thailand and that's what it says where your says Windows 8.1

[RichCor]

Typically, machines shipped with 3GB or less RAM get a 32-Bit versions of Windows OS. If the machine contains 4GB or more RAM then the 64-Bit Windows OS is required to register and access memory above 4GB.

The Box Contents sticker's last line

● RAM:LPDDR3 2G [ON BD]

● OS TYPE:WIN8.1 (32 BIT)

So, a laptop with 2GB RAM on board with Microsoft Windows 8.1 (32 Bit)

Swapping out the MotherBoard would affect the embedded MS Win license. They have 'tools' that can re-inject 'the' or 'a' license code back into MotherBoard BIOS, if they are trained and authorized to do so. Many times you just get a new license but for the same MS Win version. Since the license is queried from the MotherBoard on startup it shouldn't make a difference.

Was the contents of your HardDrive wiped, or are all the contents (Installed programs, files, etc) still intact? If still intact then maybe the different MS Win license triggered the OS to do an in-place version upgrade.

[chingching]

So trying to make sure that every things ok before setting out on the long trip home , is some thing I would like to plan for in advance .

Ive just remembered that I have access to a nearby Lotus store free wifi , could having internet access help in any way .

You can check if windows is genuine from the MS site. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/genuine. That said I use a non-original version. It took several years before they flagged it as non-genuine. On boot up u get a screen telling you that, and then another screen telling you why u should get genuine. If you don't click on them, they add about 20 seconds to the boot time, Other than that they turn your desktop wall paper to black. That's my desktop. On my laptop I run the same non-genuine version, from the same install CD and it has never been flagged. (Windows 7 ultimate)

[ianwuk]

Whilst in the service center why not try activating Windows there and then by phone?

Steps for how to do it are here:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-windows_install/how-to-activate-windows-8-after-changing-the/93a77a18-7624-4f80-aa2b-db4b19aa781e

ianwuk

[BudRight]

Geez people, all I had to do was Google "it is genuine"

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/genuine

[NeverSure]

Your version is/was OEM. The last three digits of the product key in the screen shot are OEM. Those are hard coded to the bios.

Manufacturers rarely provide a restore disk these days. They put a restore partition on the HDD. If your original OS was factory and valid, you should have the restore partition unless the repair place wiped it by using an image or deleted the partition for unknown reasons.

If you want to try to restore it to factory, HERE are the ASUS instructions. If that were successful you would be validated too. This restore is an imaging process which would restore everything.

[RichCor]

If the OP does decide to do a restore, make sure to copy off any personal or important files from the main boot partition first.

An OEM restore process will wipe all contents of the boot partition and restore it to factory new condition, just as it came out of the box.

You may want to do it anyway, as who knows what some 'tech' may have added to the current 'repaired' system.

[hawksway]

Every time a piece of hard ware is changed, be it a disk drive, Power supply, video controller or mother board Windows will detect the change and require you to activate the product. If you do not have an internet connection phone Microsoft Activation Centre in Bangkok on (0)2636888 to activate. Have a pen ready. If you make a mess of this, after a few goes a human voice will come on the line.Some Asus Notebooks like my Vivo Book have a Windows label on the underside but not the Windows Product Code. You can find this from Windows Control Panel, view by small items, System icon in the list. If it is not activated it will say so.

Note that most coffee shops have free Wi-Fi for Customers so if you have 60 Baht or so to spare, enter the Wi-Fi code to log onto their network and logon. Then you can simply activate from that Control Panel System Screen. I'm quite sure Asus will not have done anything funny. They are a strictly run company but stay away from computer shops, some of which engage in very illegal practices.

[JackisBack]

If the OP does decide to do a restore, make sure to copy off any personal or important files from the main boot partition first.

An OEM restore process will wipe all contents of the boot partition and restore it to factory new condition, just as it came out of the box.

You may want to do it anyway, as who knows what some 'tech' may have added to the current 'repaired' system.

Thanks again every one .

RichCor ,

The original problem was the touch screen becoming intermittently unresponsive , I first checked all the drivers were up to date , and all other Microsoft updates were ok , the problem of the touch screen not working continued no matter what I tried , I then decided to do a full factory reset , just to see if the problem was something to do with my current OS system settings , when the factory reset was completed and the machine was back to its original new state the touch screen again was not working .

When I went to collect the the machine after the first repair the OS installed was Windows 8.1 Pro and not the original OS standard 32Bit version , the question I wanted to ask the service engineer was , why would a better more expensive version of the OS be installed , and why was it not activated , after I pointed out that the OS was not activated the engineer took the machine into the back room and I never saw him again , so I can now see several possible scenarios when I next go to collect the T200TA ,

1. The original OS version has been re installed and activated using the same original key

2, The original OS version has been re installed and activated using a new key

3. The Windows 8.1 Pro version that had been installed is now some how activated .

4. I'm told by the engineer that I need to contact Microsoft about the OS

Trying to do any thing like phone activation or connecting to the internet to see if the OS installed is genuine while sat in the service repair center , surrounded by less than helpful staff / engineers , may be some what a difficult task to do .

Ive got a funny feeling that after finding a different version OS ( Windows 8.1 Pro ) had been installed , but not activated , when I next go to collect the machine that once more some thing is not going to seem right .

Edited May 9, 2015 by JackisBack

[Pib]

Every time a piece of hard ware is changed, be it a disk drive, Power supply, video controller or mother board Windows will detect the change and require you to activate the product.

No Windows does not. I've changed so many hard drives in my laptops I've lost track and changed a few video cards and power supplies in desktops--never did that affect the activation of Windows in any of those machines...and those machines were running an OEM version of Windows in most cases. Now if you change the "motherboard" then activation issues will pop up. Yes, for some folks who have simply changed say a video card or other card in the PC Windows asked to be reactivated but those are exceptions.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Pib

[NeverSure]

^^^ Very true and they apparently changed the motherboard which has the bios into which the validation check is hard coded.

The whole thing is curious because replacing the mobo wouldn't have required re-installing anything as the HDD shouldn't have been affected. It should have only required activation due to the mobo itself.

What actually happened and why it got a different OS is pretty confusing.

[RichCor]

[...] so I can now see several possible scenarios when I next go to collect the T200TA ,

1. The original OS version has been re installed and activated using the same original key

2, The original OS version has been re installed and activated using a new key

3. The Windows 8.1 Pro version that had been installed is now some how activated .

4. I'm told by the engineer that I need to contact Microsoft about the OS

Trying to do any thing like phone activation or connecting to the internet to see if the OS installed is genuine while sat in the service repair center , surrounded by less than helpful staff / engineers , may be some what a difficult task to do .

Ive got a funny feeling that after finding a different version OS ( Windows 8.1 Pro ) had been installed , but not activated , when I next go to collect the machine that once more some thing is not going to seem right .

You might want to add,

5. Make sure the installed OS version isn't a 90-day Evaluation

6. Check to see if the returned device is actually your (same serial number) as in the photo you took.

[NeverSure]

Another thought is that since he was able to do a wipe/restore he probably had a restore partition which probably means he had a valid factory OEM installation. Not many pirates would even know how much less bother to make a restore partition in the very process of Asus and which would restore the entire thing from an image, which it does.

[JackisBack]

^^^ Very true and they apparently changed the motherboard which has the bios into which the validation check is hard coded.

The whole thing is curious because replacing the mobo wouldn't have required re-installing anything as the HDD shouldn't have been affected. It should have only required activation due to the mobo itself.

What actually happened and why it got a different OS is pretty confusing.

The fact that the OS that was installed was not the original version and it was not activated makes you think just what are these people doing , looking at the repair center its self , its full of boxes that have arrived by post , there's stacks of laptops on the reception desk , just laying un protected on top of each other , that look like there waiting for their owners to collect after being repaired , when the receptionist handed me back the T200TA to check every thing was in order, I noticed that the OS now installed was not the original version , she called a technician ( I use that world lightly ) to come out from the back office and have a look, when this young scruffy looking boy finally appeared , I pointed out that the OS was not the original one and it clearly stated that it was not activated , it took the technician a few minutes of messing about trying several things , then he handed the machine back to me with a silly smile , and said now OK , when I again pointed out on the screen the words '' not activated '' , he grabbed the machine and disappeared into the back office . How can an Asus authorized service center install a different OS version and even more baffling , not activate it , if the service center is carrying out what could be hundreds of repairs a month , surely who ever installed a different OS version and not activated it , would know the coming consequences .

[kkerry]

This seems to be your machine specifications on the Thai site for Asus

[JackisBack]

[...] so I can now see several possible scenarios when I next go to collect the T200TA ,

1. The original OS version has been re installed and activated using the same original key

2, The original OS version has been re installed and activated using a new key

3. The Windows 8.1 Pro version that had been installed is now some how activated .

4. I'm told by the engineer that I need to contact Microsoft about the OS

Trying to do any thing like phone activation or connecting to the internet to see if the OS installed is genuine while sat in the service repair center , surrounded by less than helpful staff / engineers , may be some what a difficult task to do .

Ive got a funny feeling that after finding a different version OS ( Windows 8.1 Pro ) had been installed , but not activated , when I next go to collect the machine that once more some thing is not going to seem right .

You might want to add,

5. Make sure the installed OS version isn't a 90-day Evaluation

6. Check to see if the returned device is actually your (same serial number) as in the photo you took.

More things to worry about

[JackisBack]

This seems to be your machine specifications on the Thai site for Asus

Thanks for that , Now I'm even more confused , there its saying both

Windows 8.1 Pro

and

Windows 8.1

its the Pro , I'm wondering about

[kkerry]

Generally in Thailand you don't find genuine Windows Pro installed on lower priced hardware so when I looked that up for you I really wasn't expecting to see Pro listed. Maybe seeing you had problems so early they decided to give you an upgrade or just made a mistake. The fact that Pro is listed on the Asus site makes it much more likely you have the real thing imo

[NeverSure]

This seems to be your machine specifications on the Thai site for Asus

Thanks for that , Now I'm even more confused , there its saying both

Windows 8.1 Pro

and

Windows 8.1

its the Pro , I'm wondering about

If it shipped with 8, Windows update will update it to 8.1 for free with no further activation required. It doesn't really matter which it shipped with.

[NeverSure]

Generally in Thailand you don't find genuine Windows Pro installed on lower priced hardware so when I looked that up for you I really wasn't expecting to see Pro listed. Maybe seeing you had problems so early they decided to give you an upgrade or just made a mistake. The fact that Pro is listed on the Asus site makes it much more likely you have the real thing imo

His screen shot from before the work shows that it was OEM. OEM isn't the version to pirate because it validates against the bios for just that one motherboard. People will pirate pro or enterprise usually which could be done for an upgrade.

The OEM makes me think it was probably original since it was validated. He also has a restore partition which points to a factory installation.

If he can restore from the HDD partition it will restore drivers and everything except validation for the new mobo/bios. Then he could validate with MS with very little effort.

With some OEM installations they have to be validated by the manufacturer which owns that license, and not with MS.

[NeverSure]

The fact that the OS that was installed was not the original version and it was not activated makes you think just what are these people doing , looking at the repair center its self , its full of boxes that have arrived by post , there's stacks of laptops on the reception desk , just laying un protected on top of each other , that look like there waiting for their owners to collect after being repaired , when the receptionist handed me back the T200TA to check every thing was in order, I noticed that the OS now installed was not the original version , she called a technician ( I use that world lightly ) to come out from the back office and have a look, when this young scruffy looking boy finally appeared , I pointed out that the OS was not the original one and it clearly stated that it was not activated , it took the technician a few minutes of messing about trying several things , then he handed the machine back to me with a silly smile , and said now OK , when I again pointed out on the screen the words '' not activated '' , he grabbed the machine and disappeared into the back office . How can an Asus authorized service center install a different OS version and even more baffling , not activate it , if the service center is carrying out what could be hundreds of repairs a month , surely who ever installed a different OS version and not activated it , would know the coming consequences .

I don't think the tech has a clue what he's doing. I can't think of a single reason to touch the HDD data other than to validate after booting. The very idea that one would take a legit installation complete with a factory restore partition and replace it with a different version which is probably inexpertly pirated (it isn't validated) would take some tall 'splaining.

Edited May 9, 2015 by NeverSure

[Pinot]

Isn't this all irrelevant with Windows 10 coming out soon where all versions of Windows can be upgraded free, legitimate or not?