Re apply UK spouse visa after refusal

[danzontour]

hi guys,

I recently applied for a spouse visa for my wife to live in UK. Sadly it was refused on the basis I don't meet the financial requirement. In the refusal notice every other criteria was met.

The error was on my part as I didn't include bank statements or a letter from employer. The frustrating part is everything is detailed on my UK payslips.

Now I plan to re apply with all correct documents. I'm just wondering how best to approach the refusal in the new application. Obviously I will declare it however is it something I should address within the covering letter I will write.

It's a shame they didn't request the missing documents as they were easily obtainable.

I couldn't appeal as I could not find any human rights grounds to appeal on and I guess that will end up costing me the same as a new application. Any help or suggestions much appreciated.

[wooloomooloo]

I couldn't appeal as I could not find any human rights grounds to appeal on and I guess that will end up costing me the same as a new application.

When was refusal letter dated?

[danzontour]

5th may asking us to use iaft-6 form. However they only included the Iaft-2.

[wooloomooloo]

You should post the refusal letter with personal identification blanked out in the first instance so that the experts can comment comprehensively.

You've got time on your side, at the moment. An appeal also includes a review of the application so you shouldn't give up hope just yet.

[danzontour]

Here is the notice.

[wooloomooloo]

Blimey. Pretty straightforward refusal, danzontour.

Don't waste another settlement visa fee without appealing first. Your wife can submit the omitted documentation, pay the appeal fee, and make her excuses. Might not get past the review stage, if your wife's lucky.

What have you both got to lose?

Good luck to you both.

[bobrussell]

As the payslips alone indicate an income above the required minimum it seems harsh that the ECO did not contact the applicant for the missing paperwork.

Not every applicant is as aware as most regulars on this forum as to the level of documentation required. The ECO is entitled to put the application on hold and request further information. They do not have to do this especially if they doubt further paperwork will lead to approval.

Clearly this was not the best application in the world but there seems to be plenty of evidence that the application would be approved if the missing documentation is provided.

I would tend to agree that appealing is worth a go especially as the documentation should be quick and easy to get.

Excuse is lack of familiarity with the application process and belief that the payslips were evidence of income. May not work as it is the applicants responsibility to provide the required paperwork but I think worth a go!

Best of luck!

[danzontour]

Well I'll give it a go. Right here is what I have now:

My online bank statements just showing the salary payments only. Stamped and initialed by the bank. Bank statements with all transactions with salary payments highlighted. Stamped on every page and initialed. A letter of my employer confirming salary and employment. My p60 as it was issued last week. My contract of employment from when I started my job 5 years ago. My payslips.

Good enough for them?

[wooloomooloo]

As long as you've covered all the reasons for refusal then that's a start.

Also make sure your wife submits a side letter whereby your she makes her excuses for the oversight.

Please let us know how the review / appeal goes.

Edited May 13, 2015 by wooloomooloo

[7by7]

To be fair, the financial appendix form does refer to the guidance on the financial requirement and tells people to read it first.

It also contains

For each financial source you rely on to meet the financial requirement you should submit the relevant evidence with your
application as specified in the Immigration Rules and policy guidance notes.

However, the policy guidance notes say

3.4. Evidential flexibility
3.4.1. Under Appendix FM-SE there is discretion for decision-makers to defer an application pending submission of missing evidence or the correct version of it, within a reasonable deadline set for this. Decision-makers will not have to defer where they do not think that correcting the error or omission will lead to a grant.

This is discretionary, but as it seems the only reason for refusal was the missing documents I cannot understand why the ECO did not exercise this discretion.

Having said that, it does seem that this refusal is within the rules, so I'm not sure if an appeal will achieve anything.

But, I feel you need professional advice on that point, and recommend you contact a reputable, OISC registered professional without delay.

If in Thailand, I would recommend Thai Visa Express, one of this forums sponsors.

[bobrussell]

I would agree that the refusal is within the rules but we are not talking a visit visa here. It is a life changing decision and costing a vast amount of money.

Had there been no evidence of income I would have been a little more 'serve you right' but the refusal was based only on not meeting the financial requirement and the payslips clearly indicate that the applicant's husband did meet the requirement.

ECO's do need to accept that not all applications are going to be complete, usually through inexperience and they should make an attempt to get missing paperwork where the likelihood of success is high. For a thousand pounds they should expect to make a bit of an effort!

Why not send a letter (even tick box) requiring certain documents as listed in the refusal to be submitted within a set timeframe?

[7by7]

Why not send a letter (even tick box) requiring certain documents as listed in the refusal to be submitted within a set timeframe?

Which is basically what para 3.4.1 allows them to do; unless there are other grounds for refusal as well.

What I don't comprehend is why the ECO in this case did not use their discretion and ask for the missing documents.

[Tony M]

The matter of using evidential flexibility recently made it to the Supreme Court, who basically said that decision-makers are not obliged to use it. ECO's will no doubt take that to heart, even though they seem to ignore other case law and appeal precedents. This determination really is relevant to the OP's situation.

More on the Supreme Court determination can be seen here :

https://asadakhan.wordpress.com/2015/05/06/evidential-flexibility-in-supreme-court/#more-5804

[bobrussell]

It would appear that judgement has been reserved so it is not quite over yet unless something has happened since.

The real issue is whether UKVI wish to refuse visas and require further applications and fees or offer good customer service!

Clearly money is more important than doing a good job in a fair way. No surprise there!

[danzontour]

I saw an immigration solicitor yesterday. The solicitor advised me that it would be in my interests to re apply. With all documents and also address the reasons for refusal. She said that if I had appealed there was no guarantee that It would be overturned as within the rules the refusal was correct.

So I have decided to re apply now and will include all the correct documents as stated.

I hope this time it will be successful. I of course will keep everyone updated as to the outcome. Thanks for the advice and help.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

The eco was correct to refuse your application as you did not supply the specified evidence as per FM/SE.

Feel free to contact me should you require professional help all our applications are taken on a no win no agents fees basis.

Edited May 16, 2015 by ThaiVisaExpress

[wooloomooloo]

I saw an immigration solicitor yesterday. The solicitor advised me that it would be in my interests to re apply.

Good luck with the new application, danzontour.

I'm no professional, but when I look at the cost of an appeal/review of £80 or £140 against another settlement fee at nigh on £1k, I stand by what I stated earlier, what have you both got to lose with submitting the omitted documents, your wife making her excuses and chancing your arm with an appeal.

If you can well afford the expense - money no object - then great.

[7by7]

One thing he has to lose is time.

Appeals can, and often do, take over a year to be determined and there is no certainty of success; the opposite in fact in this case as the refusal is technically correct according to the rules.

[wooloomooloo]

One thing he has to lose is time.

Appeals can, and often do, take over a year to be determined and there is no certainty of success; the opposite in fact in this case as the refusal is technically correct according to the rules.

Agreed, 7by7, and something I considered. I know someone that appealed and was successful but at the expense of nearly ten months.

Although a technically correct refusal, it would remain to be seen if the refusal could be successfully overturned at appeal / review. We'll never know now.

Like I said, all depends on the OP's budget. If it were me and money were no object then I'd cut to the chase and reapply. At least then it would be reasonable to assume that a decision was received, generally, in no more than three months.

Good luck to him, nonetheless.

[danzontour]

Hi guys,

Being pragmatic about it at the end of the day I made a screw up. I could appeal and see how that goes but as 7by7 mentioned its about the time. I did think about throwing caution to the wind and appealing but at the end of the day like most here you want to be reunited as a family. After using all my annual leave I would face a long period without seeing my wife, also if I did fly out whilst waiting for the appeal process to run then I would end up spending that amount anyhow. I will be applying using the A method as the lowest gross income payslip was 1558 after a period of unpaid leave. I have all the required documents that was missed out and noted on the refusal notice. Is it worth submitting the refusal notice with the new application as a supporting document?

[theoldgit]

There's no reason why you couldn't submit a copy of the refusal notice and make the point that you have addressed the reason for refusal in the covering letter.

The ECO will have access to the previous refusal but it wouldn't do any harm to let them know you've addressed the reasons.

[ironryon]

Sorry to hear that you were refused. Would have been a 2 minute job for the ECO to call the applicant or yourself and request the documents....as they do in other applications.

[1975]

I was refused last week, due to no wage slips, dividends vouchers, despite meeting the financial requirement by over £10.000. And assets of £170.000. I was so angry that the ECO did not contact me to ask for these, I could of got them to him within 48hours or less. I phoned the appeals staff and he said even if you provide the missing documents their is still no guarantee it will be passed. I've now reapplied within 7 days putting in my payslips which don't prove anything as I'm self employed and sometimes read £0 per month, this is why I never submitted them in the first place. What if the ECO didn't understand the tax system in the UK? For example give myself a £500 pay rise on my payslips for my wife's tourist visa and lost £380 to tax and student loan, so I can't even give my self a pay rise even if I wanted too. Will he know this or will he now start sniffing about to refuse me on some other excuse? The ECO also said their was other missing documents which there wasn't, because my wife showed me on Skype that they were in the supporting documents, and they also with held important documents that I needed to reapply? Why? Fuming! It's seems to me they're just looking to refuse you on any grounds to get this immigration figure down!

[wooloomooloo]

1975 - for a more informed response, post the refusal notice with personal identification blanked out.

[7by7]

1975, the ECOs are employees of UKVI, an agency of the Home Office, and most of them are British; they do understand the UK tax system, what evidence is required and how to judge that evidence if a sponsor is self employed.

What evidence, depending on how the financial requirement is being met, is required is in the financial appendix and the specified evidence appendix; which the general guidance and supporting documents guide; which surely you read before applying, refers sponsors and applicants to.

The application form also makes it clear that it is the applicant and sponsor's responsibility to supply all the required evidence. If the required evidence is missing, ECOs have very little, if any, discretion.

Having said that, there is scope in the rules for ECOs to ask for missing evidence, but they are not obliged to. Unfortunately yours is not the first case recently reported on this forum when they have not done so.

Of course, without seeing the refusal notice we have no way of knowing which documents the ECO considered to be missing.

As for the non return of your documents, originals are only returned if a copy is also provided.

Edited June 4, 2015 by 7by7

[1975]

Refusal pages from 25th May 2015.

The problem I have is that everybody needs to meet the £18600 financial requirement, ok far enough, my CT 600, SA 302 etc.... shows my company gross income was £22,601, in which the ECO agrees I met, therefore I meet the requirement. Do they not realise that this is gross income? what if my cost of sales are £22,600? my profit could be £1 for all they know, so I would not met the £18,600 would I? It's just a unbelievable way of calculating if I meet the requirement, it proves they don't know what the hell they are doing. I except that I our supporting evidence did fall short of a few documents, Payslips mainly (if issued) how on earth does the ECO know that my company issues payslips? good guess, they actually are.

They should of contacted me, £950 down the drain. Let see what happens this time.

thanks Paul,

[wooloomooloo]

I've now reapplied within 7 days putting in my payslips which don't prove anything as I'm self employed and sometimes read £0 per month, this is why I never submitted them in the first place.

1975, I'm starting to like you. You had your rant and posted your wife's refusal notice on your second post to the forum.

From your above quote it would appear that you've already reapplied on behalf of your wife? Is my understanding correct?

[1975]

Yes, that is correct. New application in last week including all the missing documents from the first refusal. Apologises for the rant extremely P**sed at the ECO for saying that I made no request for discretion, why would I not want him/her to use discretion? I've just paid you £1000, My wife is stuck waiting 6000 miles away and I haven't seen her for 4 months. Where is the compassion? this is peoples lives we are talking about. They are cowards and social misfits that hide behind a desk all day.

[7by7]

To be fair to them, they are civil servants who have to follow the rules and instructions laid down by Parliament.

As your wife's refusal notice, and the guidance, says they can only ask for missing documents in specific circumstances.

See 3.4. Evidential flexibility in the guidance.

Though I accept that there are cases when they could have used this discretion, but didn't.

Whilst I understand your frustration and sympathise with your situation, you should direct your ire at the correct targets; Theresa May and her Home Office advisors who drafted the rules, the last government who laid them before Parliament and Parliament who approved them.

[johnch1213]

To be fair to them, they are civil servants who have to follow the rules and instructions laid down by Parliament.

As your wife's refusal notice, and the guidance, says they can only ask for missing documents in specific circumstances.

See 3.4. Evidential flexibility in the guidance.

Though I accept that there are cases when they could have used this discretion, but didn't.

Whilst I understand your frustration and sympathise with your situation, you should direct your ire at the correct targets; Theresa May and her Home Office advisors who drafted the rules, the last government who laid them before Parliament and Parliament who approved them.

Theresa May has a very difficult job to do and it is easy for you and other people to criticise her but do you really think that you could do much better and devise a plan the was acceptable to both the general public and the powers that be.