Employing a Burmese (gardener) who is currently living in Thailand

[Red Crab]

Hello

does anybody know, what are the laws in regards to employing a gardener who is from Burma, but is currently living in Thailand?

That person has worked previously a few days here, few days there, and now is interested in working 6 days a week for one

employer. We are a household, not a company.

Somebody has mentioned that farangs (we are from Australia) are not allowed to employ anybody but Thai citizens.

Any information or whom should we contact for further information, would be greatly appreciated.

thank you

[neilrob]

We employ a Burmese housekeeper and gardener legally. The "legally" bit is something of a pain---lots of forms---and has to be done via my Thai partner. I am pretty sure that non-Thais cannot employ Burmese. However, if you were to employ one person, I don't know how the Thai authorities would ever find out, unless you are on bad terms with your neighbours.

[Beetlejuice]

The only reasons that I can think of why anyone in Thailand would what to employ Burmese gardeners or domestic workers in Thailand, is for the purposes of gaining their services at a cheaper rate, plus having more controls over these people than they would by employing Thais who have more statutory rights as citizens.

Otherwise, why would ex-pats living in Thailand have a preference for Burmese workers over Thais?

To answer the OP`s question: any information or whom should we contact for further information, I suggest making inquiries at the job centre in Mae Rim that actually deal with the issuing of work permits for Burmese.

[Dante99]

One good reason to hire a Burmese is that they are available and often it is difficult to find Thais who want to do those jobs well.

Without proper papers there are risks and not just from neighbors. In the past the government has routed some areas with a lot of Burmese residents.

[Bill97]

The only reasons that I can think of why anyone in Thailand would what to employ Burmese gardeners or domestic workers in Thailand, is for the purposes of gaining their services at a cheaper rate, plus having more controls over these people than they would by employing Thais who have more statutory rights as citizens.

Otherwise, why would ex-pats living in Thailand have a preference for Burmese workers over Thais?

To answer the OP`s question: any information or whom should we contact for further information, I suggest making inquiries at the job centre in Mae Rim that actually deal with the issuing of work permits for Burmese.

Burmese Shan are often preferred for their skills and diligence.

[Red Crab]

We are checking our options at this point in time , as have had some bad experience with a couple of gardeners before (unreliable, drinking on the job).

We are not motivated by the money factor and would pay an ongoing rate fit for a valuable worker .

This person has been mentioned by our neighbors as skilled and reliable, however, if we decide, we would like to do it "the right way".

Thank you Guys for your input and all information.

have a great day!

[LivinLOS]

The only reasons that I can think of why anyone in Thailand would what to employ Burmese gardeners or domestic workers in Thailand, is for the purposes of gaining their services at a cheaper rate, plus having more controls over these people than they would by employing Thais who have more statutory rights as citizens.

Otherwise, why would ex-pats living in Thailand have a preference for Burmese workers over Thais?

To answer the OP`s question: any information or whom should we contact for further information, I suggest making inquiries at the job centre in Mae Rim that actually deal with the issuing of work permits for Burmese.

Because they work harder.. turn up on time.. and so far havent lied to me..

I had a long list of Thai garden crews.. each one do a good job one or two times, then skimp, want 50% more pay, do less work, generally need to be booted.. Same when I had a recommended local handyman for pool services.. Utterly useless, would skip his visit then lie and say he came before 6am (I am often awake at 4 or 5..It was just lies). Was useless at the subest he claimed to be an expert in etc etc..

About 2 years ago found a burmese crew.. Top lads.. Do a superb job, a few extra requests or instructions never a complaint or hairy eye.. Proper grafters.. I am happy to tip them well as they are so willing. I wish I could find as solid a crew for a building project.

While on the one hand it isnt the money, its the fact they work hard.. On the other is is the money, thais can get another job easily, hence they simply dont care.. 1500b for a couple of hours garden cleaning once a month, and they act like its too much effort.

[mascarabertha]

The only reasons that I can think of why anyone in Thailand would what to employ Burmese gardeners or domestic workers in Thailand, is for the purposes of gaining their services at a cheaper rate, plus having more controls over these people than they would by employing Thais who have more statutory rights as citizens.

Otherwise, why would ex-pats living in Thailand have a preference for Burmese workers over Thais?

To answer the OP`s question: any information or whom should we contact for further information, I suggest making inquiries at the job centre in Mae Rim that actually deal with the issuing of work permits for Burmese.

Because they work harder.. turn up on time.. and so far havent lied to me..

I had a long list of Thai garden crews.. each one do a good job one or two times, then skimp, want 50% more pay, do less work, generally need to be booted.. Same when I had a recommended local handyman for pool services.. Utterly useless, would skip his visit then lie and say he came before 6am (I am often awake at 4 or 5..It was just lies). Was useless at the subest he claimed to be an expert in etc etc..

About 2 years ago found a burmese crew.. Top lads.. Do a superb job, a few extra requests or instructions never a complaint or hairy eye.. Proper grafters.. I am happy to tip them well as they are so willing. I wish I could find as solid a crew for a building project.

While on the one hand it isnt the money, its the fact they work hard.. On the other is is the money, thais can get another job easily, hence they simply dont care.. 1500b for a couple of hours garden cleaning once a month, and they act like its too much effort.

I'm on board 100%. found exactly the same thing to be true

[WitawatWatawit]

BJ, in this case I think the OP deserves a little respect. My (limited) experience is that few Thais want to do menial jobs anymore, and take them very reluctantly and show no gratitude, even when paid above rate and treated with due deference. This Burmese guy is clearly in the right place at the right time, has shown he will do a fair day's work for a fair day's pay and is likely to be solid and reliable. It's a no-brainer. Go for it, OP.

[LivinLOS]

BJ, in this case I think the OP deserves a little respect. My (limited) experience is that few Thais want to do menial jobs anymore, and take them very reluctantly and show no gratitude, even when paid above rate and treated with due deference.

You summed up in less words what I was trying to convey..

I dont need anyone bowing and scraping, but if I pay a fair rate I would like the job well done, and without getting attitude back about it.. That seems pretty much a baseline for being asked to come back and repeat it ??

My experience for menial (and not so menial.. The pool guy was well paid and it was hardly 'hard labor' work) is that seem to resent doing it, and have a huff if corrected from doing the absolute minimum to get paid.

[StefanBBK]

We employ exclusively Burmese (Karen). All legal with quota and taxes/ social contributions. They are actually more expensive than Thai workers, but so much better than the Thai we had before. So employing Burmese is not by reason of getting cheaper labor.

[mascarabertha]

The only reasons that I can think of why anyone in Thailand would what to employ Burmese gardeners or domestic workers in Thailand, is for the purposes of gaining their services at a cheaper rate, plus having more controls over these people than they would by employing Thais who have more statutory rights as citizens.

Otherwise, why would ex-pats living in Thailand have a preference for Burmese workers over Thais?

To answer the OP`s question: any information or whom should we contact for further information, I suggest making inquiries at the job centre in Mae Rim that actually deal with the issuing of work permits for Burmese.

If that's the only reason that you think of, you should recalibrate your thinking and try thinking out of your small box.

You're not answering the op's question you are directing him elsewhere

[Naam]

The only reasons that I can think of why anyone in Thailand would what to employ Burmese gardeners or domestic workers in Thailand, is for the purposes of gaining their services at a cheaper rate, plus having more controls over these people than they would by employing Thais who have more statutory rights as citizens.

Otherwise, why would ex-pats living in Thailand have a preference for Burmese workers over Thais?

To answer the OP`s question: any information or whom should we contact for further information, I suggest making inquiries at the job centre in Mae Rim that actually deal with the issuing of work permits for Burmese.

one main reason i can think of is that you possess a wealth of no idea concerning preferences of employing other nationalities than Thais

[Naam]

We employ exclusively Burmese (Karen). All legal with quota and taxes/ social contributions. They are actually more expensive than Thai workers, but so much better than the Thai we had before. So employing Burmese is not by reason of getting cheaper labor.

BINGO!

Burmese workers are indeed more expensive but compensate that with their skills, hard work and last not least language capabilities.

they are also less likely to have a bunch of grandmothers, grandfathers or other relatives who's funerals they have to attend regularly every few months.

moreover, Burmese (Laotion and Cambodian) nationals have nowadays no problems to obtain Thai work permits for two years.

note: we employ since nearly ten years Thai and Burmese staff and are happy with the performance of both. we are also lucky that three out of our four employees will soon celebrate their 10-year employment anniversary with us.

[Red Crab]

Once again, thanks for all your responses, howecer, may I remind, pease, my qestion is about laws , documents required from a potential emploee or from us, basicly, can you or can not, what the Immigration Dept. would ask for etc. regard RED CRAB

[Red Crab]

I am very sorry, have spotted a couple of typos due to my using a different keyboard.

Let me correct them:

Once again thanks for all your responses, however may I remind , please, my question is about: laws, documents required from a potential employee or from us, basically : can you or can not, what the Immigration Dept would ask for etc.

Regards

RED CRAB

[cardinalblue]

I'll flat out say it...dishonesty is rampant among the Thai working population...

Thais don't trust other Thais and many complain to me about Thais in low level/menial work positions...

Go Burmese go stress-free....BJ's next bumper sticker....

[cmsally]

Not too sure of the details but start off by asking the prospective employee about what paperwork he has in place already. He may already have a work permit and just need to change registered address.

[LivinLOS]

Case in point I had a Thai work crew here the last 2 days..

The litany of screw ups (obvious ones that I could see coming, told them about, and was told 'dont worry its fine' and are now a much harder problem to be fixed before I will pay them)..

the mess they made and left (throwing the used empty cement bags over my wall just into the moobaan, piles of broken building materials, old pipe just thrown where they dropped it)..

the damage they made (cutting pipes with a grinder on a tile floor, cutting straight into the tiles without even thinking about it)..

the complaint and grumbling when I asked nicely then insisted they did the job as specced.. Because it required about 1m more blue pipe and a couple extra U bends.

And lastly the overall poor job (trying to cheaply reuse the old bits rather than the job we priced made from new, no stop valves in case of a problem, etc etc)..

Late last night I was out there in the dark trying to prime pumps and actually make their work.. you know.. Work !! To discover that one of the electric water pumps they had forgotten to run electric to.. Given an electric water pump needs only 2 things I would consider that a pretty simple oversight myself. I am sure he will be here promptly for the payment though !!

The day someone starts a company here and shows a tiny bit of pride in a job well done, cleans up after the work, and is conscientious about finishing it to spec.. They will be busy forever. Finding tradesmen to do a job is harder than just doing the damn job yourself most of the time. I wont lie, I find that bait and switch between the promise and the execution very frustrating.

[Cheesekraft]

The only reasons that I can think of why anyone in Thailand would what to employ Burmese gardeners or domestic workers in Thailand, is for the purposes of gaining their services at a cheaper rate, plus having more controls over these people than they would by employing Thais who have more statutory rights as citizens.

Otherwise, why would ex-pats living in Thailand have a preference for Burmese workers over Thais?

To answer the OP`s question: any information or whom should we contact for further information, I suggest making inquiries at the job centre in Mae Rim that actually deal with the issuing of work permits for Burmese.

actually in my experience, they do a much better job and are not as lazy.

[Naam]

I am very sorry, have spotted a couple of typos due to my using a different keyboard.

Let me correct them:

Once again thanks for all your responses, however may I remind , please, my question is about: laws, documents required from a potential employee or from us, basically : can you or can not, what the Immigration Dept would ask for etc.

Regards

RED CRAB

yes you can! but before going into legal details i suggest you to find out first whether he is already legal. perhaps he has already handled all required procedures himself (that's the done thing nowadays).

Edited May 19, 2015 by Naam

[Mr Somtam]

Case in point I had a Thai work crew here the last 2 days..

The litany of screw ups (obvious ones that I could see coming, told them about, and was told 'dont worry its fine' and are now a much harder problem to be fixed before I will pay them)..

the mess they made and left (throwing the used empty cement bags over my wall just into the moobaan, piles of broken building materials, old pipe just thrown where they dropped it)..

the damage they made (cutting pipes with a grinder on a tile floor, cutting straight into the tiles without even thinking about it)..

the complaint and grumbling when I asked nicely then insisted they did the job as specced.. Because it required about 1m more blue pipe and a couple extra U bends.

And lastly the overall poor job (trying to cheaply reuse the old bits rather than the job we priced made from new, no stop valves in case of a problem, etc etc)..

Late last night I was out there in the dark trying to prime pumps and actually make their work.. you know.. Work !! To discover that one of the electric water pumps they had forgotten to run electric to.. Given an electric water pump needs only 2 things I would consider that a pretty simple oversight myself. I am sure he will be here promptly for the payment though !!

The day someone starts a company here and shows a tiny bit of pride in a job well done, cleans up after the work, and is conscientious about finishing it to spec.. They will be busy forever. Finding tradesmen to do a job is harder than just doing the damn job yourself most of the time. I wont lie, I find that bait and switch between the promise and the execution very frustrating.

I know excactly where you're coming from! I want things done properly? I do them myself!

[LivinLOS]

I know excactly where you're coming from! I want things done properly? I do them myself!

Venting doesnt get me anywhere.. So I simply try to remain positive..

But its just mind blowing to me how much they can manage to screw up in a fairly simple task.. Its almost like they would have to try to make that many mistakes.

[Mr Somtam]

They waste more energy on the shortcuts than doing the job properly would have cost them... 555

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The only reasons that I can think of why anyone in Thailand would what to employ Burmese gardeners or domestic workers in Thailand, is for the purposes of gaining their services at a cheaper rate, plus having more controls over these people than they would by employing Thais who have more statutory rights as citizens.

Otherwise, why would ex-pats living in Thailand have a preference for Burmese workers over Thais?

To answer the OP`s question: any information or whom should we contact for further information, I suggest making inquiries at the job centre in Mae Rim that actually deal with the issuing of work permits for Burmese.

If that's the only reason that you think of, you should recalibrate your thinking and try thinking out of your small box.

You're not answering the op's question you are directing him elsewhere

Strange.. that's so out of character for BJ..

[Red Crab]

Thanks : Naam and cmsally, your information is helpful and partly answers my question ...

[Naam]

I know excactly where you're coming from! I want things done properly? I do them myself!

Venting doesnt get me anywhere.. So I simply try to remain positive..

But its just mind blowing to me how much they can manage to screw up in a fairly simple task.. Its almost like they would have to try to make that many mistakes.

it is indeed surprising and quite often mind boggling what mistakes are committed. but it's not fair to generalise because during the construction of our home (i was the first one to arrive and the last one to leave the site) i also experienced foremen as well as workmen who could think logically and do an excellent job.