Are retirees moving to the new DTV visa - anybody done it?

[mrtoad]

Excuse me for my first reply, but this seems to be such a hot topic at present.

I for on am not affected by the current legislation at present, but that does not mean that I do not sympathise with some of the people who are finding themselves in a rather precarious position. I personally know people who have property here and derive an income from out of the country, but are still to young to claim a retirement visa, and do not have the liquidity to obtain a visa based on investment/retirement.

As I see it, the Thai authorities are basically imposing laws that have been in place for some time, but have not been fully implemented. It must have been apparent to all that living in a country on a tourist visa is a potentialy precarious position to find one's self in. For anyone who has been doing this, there was always a chance that this would happen, and that the border runs who eventually be targeted. Unfortunatley, there have probably been two recent incidents where by foreign nationals have given Farang's residing in a Thailand a bad name. 1)John Karr and 2)The Pakistani from the UK who was caught on the run. Not that I am suggesting that these are the only two cases, but they have been quite high profile. Couple this with the forthcoming election, where Immigration in whatever country that you live, always comes to the forefront this should have come as no suprise.

As a tourist you do not have a right to work, and if you intend to live in the country then the procedures are rather straightforward in obtaining a visa -certainly a ###### site easier than applying for a visa in the UK.

For anyone who has a genuine reason to be in Thailand, has a particular skill to offer or enough money to invest then there should be no problems.Unfortunatley, I very much doubt that this will affect some of the more dubious characters that reside here, and it may well drive some of them to just overstay.

The biggest concern is that the whole thing seems to be a bit of a rush job - which will probably mean further loopholes to exploit.

[steveromagnino]

Okay, this my personal situation:

Interesting situation; please share the answer of what you receive in info from them:-)

[Thaiquila]

What about the retired US military who do not meet the monetary requirement for a retirement visa and have 12 months of back to back visas? Will they say sorry you have too many stamps at the end of the month you must leave and oh by the way, you will lose your deposit on your apartment.

How much is your military pension? If it is under 800K per annum, I suppose your only option is go back to the US and save the money to make up the difference for the Thai bank account. Then you can come to Thailand. Just checking to make sure you understand the financial requirements ... if you have a pension, you might not be far off qualifying.

I was ok until the baht went below 40 to the dollar. AS far as going back to the USA...go back to what? I have no living family any longer and sold everything off before I left. The Philippines is looking good.

OK. I am hearing from this that you don't have the combination of pension and savings to qualify for a Thailand retirement visa. Sorry to hear about that if you want that. You could live in the Philippines on tourist visas indefinitely (of course, they could crack down on that too). Failing that, there are some pleasant countries that would allow you a legit long term retirement visa for a much smaller amount of money; some examples: Ecuador and Nicaragua.

///specific URL's deleted by PeaceBlondie///

Edited September 12, 2006 by PeaceBlondie

[k1w1]

The new rules are no different from the Korean system.

Everyone there does the 3 month (or 6 for canadians) visa run or gets a work permit.

At least in Thailand you can set up a company for $1000 in Korean you have to have $30,000.

However this rule severely f's up a lot of peoples plans for hte next two months so it is a serious issue for many of us.

I have heard you can set up a compnay for $100 in Singapore but the cost of living makes it difficult to survive.

Personally my not retired Farang wife and I (also not retired) have booked our tickets to Penang now to avoid the inevitable rush in the next three weeks.

[trajan]

Okay, this my personal situation:

I went to the Bangkok Internations Gifts and Furniture show in April 2006. About 2,5 months later, I went to Thailand a second time to look around for new merchandise, suppliers and business opportunities. I also took 2 weeks off so, I finally ended going to Laos for 10 days. This means I have 1 VOA in April for the show, 1 VOA for the visit in June, and 1 VOA after coming back from Laos, to fly back home.

There is a new show coming up in October (Bangkok International Gifts and Furniture show

http://www.thaitradefair.com/fairin/bigoct06/

Does this mean I won't be allowed into the Kingdom? If not, I'll just go back and go to the show in Hong Kong or China, to do my business over there?

I'm not willing to spend another 30 euro's every time I have to go to Thailand. This means, I have to spend more money, just to do my purchases? No way.

Can someone comment on the above and tell me if indeed I won't be granted without a non-immigrant O visa?

If I'm not allowed, it pisses me off! I'm spending yearly about 10.000.000 baht on merchandise (last year 9.4 milj). I'm going to call some of the companies I'm trading with. If they don't pay the visa for me, my business destination will change. I'm bloody serious about changing country, because I was already considering this, as the Thai's make it more and more difficult to do business.

Last time, there were problems with wooden merchandise that needed to be funigated because of new regulations.

I cant believe you will have any problem..(but we will have to wait until after Oct 1 to see how this is actually implemented)....

I personally believe that if the rules are implemented as described, it would mean limits on aggregate stays in Thailand (for example, you can only stay in Thailand for an aggregate of 90 days during any 180 day period, if you are entering Thailand on "visa exemption" priviledges given to Americans, Japanese etc.)....

if this were not the case, then a genuine tourist/visitor coming to Thailand (on "visa exemption" basis) for only an aggregate of 7 days during a given period (but making three short side-trips to, say, Cambodia, Laos and finally Singapore) would be barred from again re-entering Thailand (on a "visa exemption" basis) until another 90 days have elapsed...

[bkkdave]

I must agree that there is no problem if you apply for the proper visa.

This is only ment to make tourist visa's what they are, a tourist cannot work in any other country that I know, if you work, they kick you out, why should Thailand be different ?

You CAN work if you want, just apply for a work permit, if you can't get a visa or work permit, there are many offices that know the "right" people to help you for a small "fee"...

I was denied for a non immigrant visa and work permit, I contacted a Bangkok based office and had the papers done in less then a week.

I paid 35.000 baht for a non immigrant visa + work permit and they are renewed every year without problems.

More info on <snip>

/Mod Edit - URL link deleted.

Edited September 12, 2006 by Jai Dee

[andyc2006]

Okay, so I want to come to Asia on holiday. Let's say I don't live in a city with a Thai consulate and don't want to send my passport thru the mail. I'm not a backpacker. I arrive in Thailand, spend a couple of weeks, go to Vietnam for a week, come back to Thailand. After a couple of weeks I go to Siam Riep, come back to Thailand and go to Bali. Now I can't come back in to Thailand for 90 days, right? This will do wonders for the perception of Thailand as a "hub".

To me this looks as no problem because you go out of the country before your tourist visa was extended or expired.I think they will focus on the borderruns who leave and enter the country on the same day.

well, then people will just stay overnight on their visa runs... or 3 days... however long it takes.

i guess we just have to wait and see exactly how bangkok instructs all of thailand's immigration officers to enforce the new rules... because so far, the new rules could mean many different things, all with very different consequences (from "no change to the current system," to "lots of people living in thailand will need to leave, and even some tourists will be denied entry on their next return to thailand.")

[A_Traveller]

Not off Topic, please review.

Expats drive booming apartment market

BANGKOK: -- Apartments in central Bangkok are enjoying 90 per cent occupancy rates, driven by strong demand from expats whose numbers continue to rise each year, a Jones Lang LaSalle property study revealed on Tuesday.

"An increasing number of expats has continued to sustain healthy performance in the apartment sector despite higher competition with condominiums for rent," said Dan Tantisunthorn, Head of Research at Jones Lang LaSalle - an international real estate consultant.

Although it is difficult to estimate the exact number of expats living in Bangkok, those who have been granted work permits by the government continue to rise on an annual basis.

The number of expats working legally in the capital rose from 47,107 at the end of 2004 to 54,607 at the end of 2005, up 16 per cent, and jumped another 5 per cent to 57,343 by mid-year 2006, according to Jones Lang LaSalle.

Many more expats are known to live in Thailand's capital without work permits, leaving the country every 90 days to renew their tourist visas. The government is mulling tightening regulations on tourist visas to crack down on these illegal residents.

According to Jones Lang LaSalle's study, 2006 will see a total of 34 new condominium projects with more than 7,600 units completed in central Bangkok, but the new space will not necessarily undermine the apartment sector.

"We do not believe the apartment market will be significantly affected by competition from condominiums due to the distinct natures of the two types of developments," said Dan.

"Apartments are purpose-built for rent and thus offer features that are tailored to tenant requirements, including specific conceptual and architectural designs, unit sizes, and furnishings as well as tenant management," he noted.

--DPA 2006-09-12

Note this is a Deutsche Press report quoted in the Bangkok Post 'Breaking News aka Press Release Forum and as you see, here posted in the News Clippings forum by George.

It would seem to me that after all these posts including mine we are no nearer a factual statement about this End of Border Runs.

Regards

/edit format//

Edited September 12, 2006 by A_Traveller

[pattaya_girl]

any new rules come out since i was sleeping ??

AMAZING THAILAND

when do we all have to leave and never come back.

[bendix]

any new rules come out since i was sleeping ??

AMAZING THAILAND

when do we all have to leave and never come back.

no need, pattaya girl.

just get the proper visa and you can stay.

What's your situation? Holidaying? Working? Studying? Retired? Investing? Married to a Thai?

[k1w1]

Here's the conspiracy theory....

This is a Tourism Authority of Thialand (TAoT) initiative. It invloves airlines, bus companies, immigration checkpoints and a couple of widely publicised murderers as well as seedy individuals who live in Thailand without paying taxes and hence have no rights.

1: Mrs 40% (the head of TAoT) likes to take back handers.

2: Airlines like to make extra cash.

3: Bus companies clogging border checkpoints

4: Airlines see potential revenue stream

5: Airlines lobby Mrs 40%

6: Mrs 40% gets a nice little kickback

7: Plays well in international press

8: Enforces stricter controls of undesirables

9: Works well in local press 1 month before election

10: Forces many people working illeagally to go legit or pay more money to immigration dept and airline companies.

Sounds like a nicely crafted plot to a production from the greatest Director Thailand has ever had. A few good bit parts and money flying all over the place.

- When people fly they spend more so it helps the local area economy more and gives the Director a few brownie points at the next ASEAN meeting.

In essence it doesn't cut down on illegals but makes them pay more for the option. It's only a problem when they start kicking people out for working.

Other countries have a 2-3 times a year policy of cracking down on illegals. Will Thailand follow that trend too?

[andyc2006]

I cant believe you will have any problem..(but we will have to wait until after Oct 1 to see how this is actually implemented)....

I personally believe that if the rules are implemented as described, it would mean limits on aggregate stays in Thailand (for example, you can only stay in Thailand for an aggregate of 90 days during any 180 day period, if you are entering Thailand on "visa exemption" priviledges given to Americans, Japanese etc.)....

if this were not the case, then a genuine tourist/visitor coming to Thailand (on "visa exemption" basis) for only an aggregate of 7 days during a given period (but making three short side-trips to, say, Cambodia, Laos and finally Singapore) would be barred from again re-entering Thailand (on a "visa exemption" basis) until another 90 days have elapsed...

you seem about 8 times smarter than the average person who posts in thai internet forums. congratulations.

[LivinLOS]

any new rules come out since i was sleeping ??

AMAZING THAILAND

when do we all have to leave and never come back.

no need, pattaya girl.

just get the proper visa and you can stay.

What's your situation? Holidaying? Working? Studying? Retired? Investing? Married to a Thai?

Retired, 33 years old..

So what do I apply for then ??

[andyc2006]

This thread is a wonderful demonstration of just how many deeply unpleasant foreigners there are living in Thailand at the moment. Unfortunately, they all appear to be on long-term visas so will not be affected by the latest crackdown - yet.

However, all those on retirement visas who are currently laughing at/applauding the plight of people doing visa runs may find the situation less amusing when the Thai government decides it doesn't want its country full of elderly foreigners staggering between the beach and the public hospitals. If the excuse for cracking down on visa-runners is that some of them are working illegally (most of them teaching short term, so at least passing on a skill), then the excuse for getting rid of the retirees will be that some of them are becoming a burden on the Thai health system. An increasing number of farangs have been turning up at public hospitals with serious illnesses and no money and getting treatment free. This, understandably, annoys the hel_l out of the Thai authorities. Refusing treatment to foreigners having heart attacks would cause too much bad publicity, so it would be much more convenient to simply withdraw retirement visas or insist on comprehensive medical insurance at each renewal (and just check out the cost of that if you're 70 and have a prexisting medical condition).

It is a deeply unpleasant character trait to get satisfaction from others' misfortune. It's also pretty stupid when the same misfortune probably awaits you a little further down the line.

you seem a bright guy too, and level-headed.

but i have to say, i think that if they implement these rules well (such as what trajan suggests... an aggregrate 90 days of every X days, where X is something like 180), i will take pleasure in knowing that people who have gamed/abused the system will finally have to live their life above-the-table.

the people on retirement visas (from your example) come here and follow both letter and spirit of the Thai visa rules... they're good guests in that sense.

the people doing monthly visa runs follow the letter, but not the spirit, and many of them are the unsavory characters thailand would like to see leave forever (and i can't blame thailand for that).

so, i did take a little satisfaction in hearing that thailand wanted to end the gaming of their system, but until they announce the details of how they'll do it, i'm concerned that they'll impact lots of very legitimate tourists, not (or in addition to) the people abusing the system. as a tourist who made about 6 (mostly short) trips to thailand in 2005, i worry that they'll be changing my vacation destination if they don't change the rules "the right way."

also, if lots of the targeted "unwanted" foreigners are forced to leave thailand, i can only assume that it'll make all aspects of my vacation in thailand slightly cheaper. sorry, but yes, i do take satisfaction in hoping for that result.

[PeaceBlondie]

Having been a federal bureaucrat three times in the USA, I suspect the Immigration Police bosses consider their staffs to be overworked and underpaid. When they can't get more funding or staff, they pass the buck to another agency. In this case, the Immigration Police are trying to make the Ministry of Foreign Affairs do the visa issuances and vetting that the police don't want to do. That means shorter queues at the land crossing points, and maybe more time for the police officers to do even more important work at the office or in the provinces.

Back to teachers: if you believe what the teachers are saying on another website, 55% of them work at schools in Thailand that are 100% legal. That's hardly a typical sample group. I have no idea what the right number is, country-wide, but these guys are old hands who went through the two-to-three year illegal phase long ago, just as many of us went through an apprenticeship learning the visa rules. Just guessing: over 60% of all the farang who are teaching in Thailand do not have all the required work permits, proper visas, teacher's licenses, etc., for the teaching work they are doing. How many are affected by these new rules? What new rules? Exactly, what?

When I taught illegally (at long-established Thai govt. schools), it was off to Mae Sai or flying to another country every 89 days; and flying home to get a new one-year visa every year. I spent roughly four months' pay every year, when I was being paid about 10 months per year. The new teachers, as in Bangkok, spend months being illegal. Why should they bother to come?

The trouble now is, for teachers and many others, is that they have long-term Thai lovers, even some Thai children to support, and they can't leave. Most of them, by the time the babies come along, finally get sorted out legally.

[pattaya_girl]

been here over 5 years with different visas in the past.

i bought my house and opened a company.

my house in inside my company. i do not work. i pay the thai

goverment my company tax every year but was told in penang

that i can still only have a tourist visa.

i am not married. last time i went to penang it cost me 16.000 baht

round trip to get my tourist visa.

i maybe could have dont it myself cheaper but being a lady wanted to be safe.

i pay company tax every year but still can only be a tourist !!!

this is bizarre, it certainly amazes me at times....

i could go back to the uk and get a class o multiple entry, but thats

costly too. so it looks like i am back to penang again, im soo excited...

[Thaiquila]

any new rules come out since i was sleeping ??

AMAZING THAILAND

when do we all have to leave and never come back.

no need, pattaya girl.

just get the proper visa and you can stay.

What's your situation? Holidaying? Working? Studying? Retired? Investing? Married to a Thai?

Retired, 33 years old..

So what do I apply for then ??

Investment visa if you can afford to tie up 3 million baht.

Try for a one year multi entry O at a "friendly" consulate in the west. Not a sure thing.

Otherwise, try for as many entries of tourist visa as you can get, and be one of the guinea pigs to see whether this crackdown applies to "real" tourist visas.

Or you can apply for an air ticket somewhere else!

Don't get too comfortable unless you are willing to tie up the money for an investment visa.

Edited September 12, 2006 by Thaiquila

[LivinLOS]

I cant believe you will have any problem..(but we will have to wait until after Oct 1 to see how this is actually implemented)....

I personally believe that if the rules are implemented as described, it would mean limits on aggregate stays in Thailand (for example, you can only stay in Thailand for an aggregate of 90 days during any 180 day period, if you are entering Thailand on "visa exemption" priviledges given to Americans, Japanese etc.)....

if this were not the case, then a genuine tourist/visitor coming to Thailand (on "visa exemption" basis) for only an aggregate of 7 days during a given period (but making three short side-trips to, say, Cambodia, Laos and finally Singapore) would be barred from again re-entering Thailand (on a "visa exemption" basis) until another 90 days have elapsed...

you seem about 8 times smarter than the average person who posts in thai internet forums. congratulations.

While I agree that this must be more involved than '3 recent stamps you cant come in' can you really see airline chack in staff and the immigration queues going through all of your passports.. Finding all recent stamps (which could tally into 10's on many pages and books).. Tallying them for days incountry.. All before hitting the OK stamp.

I have dual nationality.. Can hold 4 passports.. My housemate works offshore and has 2 passports that are rammed with stamps..

Do you really think this is going to work ?? And I can tell you with 100% certainty the passport scanning system cannot in real time tell you whatt is going on with entry amounts of time..

Whatever system is proposed has to be enfoced on the ground.. This isnt feasable as described at airline check in.

[LivinLOS]

any new rules come out since i was sleeping ??

AMAZING THAILAND

when do we all have to leave and never come back.

no need, pattaya girl.

just get the proper visa and you can stay.

What's your situation? Holidaying? Working? Studying? Retired? Investing? Married to a Thai?

Retired, 33 years old..

So what do I apply for then ??

Investment visa if you can afford to tie up 3 million baht.

Try for a one year multi entry O at a "friendly" consulate in the west. Not a sure thing.

Otherwise, try for as many entries of tourist visa as you can get, and be one of the guinea pigs to see whether this crackdown applies to "real" tourist visas.

Or you can apply for an air ticket somewhere else!

Don't get too comfortable unless you are willing to tie up the money for an investment visa.

I am aware of the options.. But bendix wants to make it all sound so easy so I tought I would let him explain..

Investment visa's.. Many reasons why not (gov bonds seem hard to buy, the banks have no capital protection, condo values being poor, high risk environment all round).. Also people may, even if they can afford it, have thier investments strutured so as not to have access to a spare 75k USD..

Try for a one year non imm O.. I though this was all about not bending the rules and following the letter AND THE SPIRIT of the law.. Pot / kettle / black !!!

Tourist visa's.. again is this the spirit of the law.. I see no difference between this and using visa on arrivals if they continue to give them.. If they do clampdown on them again the options are extreemely limited.. Also a tourist visa makes leaving the country for short trips a big problem as 'entries' are watsed each time.. BIG pain in the ass.

Air ticket somewhere else.. Always have my eyes open.

So essentially what your saying is unless you are happy to commit 75k USD to a pretty risky investment you have no legal options following the letter and spirit of the law.. And that seems acceptable ?? That seems smart and well thought out.. To tell residents that employ people, spend a lot (1.5 - 2 mil baht per year) and are no drain on Thai resources whatsoever. That seems good for Thailand PLC ??

Personally I couldnt give a hoot about the spirit of the law and am sure I will be able to stay here without problems.. Had non immigrant visas for the last 3 years even though I technically dont deserve one..

[Pomrakuhn]

"While I agree that this must be more involved than '3 recent stamps you cant come in' can you really see airline chack in staff and the immigration queues going through all of your passports.. Finding all recent stamps (which could tally into 10's on many pages and books).. Tallying them for days incountry.. All before hitting the OK stamp.

I have dual nationality.. Can hold 4 passports.. My housemate works offshore and has 2 passports that are rammed with stamps..

Do you really think this is going to work ?? And I can tell you with 100% certainty the pass-port scanning system cannot in real time tell you whatt is going on with entry amounts of time..

Whatever system is proposed has to be enfoced on the ground.. This isnt feasable as de-scribed at airline check in."

They would not need to find the stamps in your passport(s) ....the should just be able ti hit a button on their computer and see how many visits and for how long.

Edited September 12, 2006 by Pomrakuhn

[LivinLOS]

While I agree that this must be more involved than '3 recent stamps you cant come in' can you really see airline chack in staff and the immigration queues going through all of your passports.. Finding all recent stamps (which could tally into 10's on many pages and books).. Tallying them for days incountry.. All before hitting the OK stamp.

I have dual nationality.. Can hold 4 passports.. My housemate works offshore and has 2 passports that are rammed with stamps..

Do you really think this is going to work ?? And I can tell you with 100% certainty the passport scanning system cannot in real time tell you whatt is going on with entry amounts of time..

Whatever system is proposed has to be enfoced on the ground.. This isnt feasable as described at airline check in.

They would not need to find the stamps in your passport(s) ....the should just be able ti hit a button on their computer and see how many visits and for how long.

And once again.. The Thai immigration computer system cannot in real time do this (yet).. Even on one passport let alone 4..

I also understand that not all of the border places are yet wired into this immigration computer network.. They still process everything with thier TM7's later.. Thats the real on the ground situation.

Whatever implemented must function (to a better or worse manner) and airline check in staff (who must decide if you can get on the plane) also could not do this.

Edited September 12, 2006 by LivinLOS

[Pomrakuhn]

While I agree that this must be more involved than '3 recent stamps you cant come in' can you really see airline chack in staff and the immigration queues going through all of your passports.. Finding all recent stamps (which could tally into 10's on many pages and books).. Tallying them for days incountry.. All before hitting the OK stamp.

I have dual nationality.. Can hold 4 passports.. My housemate works offshore and has 2 passports that are rammed with stamps..

Do you really think this is going to work ?? And I can tell you with 100% certainty the passport scanning system cannot in real time tell you whatt is going on with entry amounts of time..

Whatever system is proposed has to be enfoced on the ground.. This isnt feasable as described at airline check in.

"

They would not need to find the stamps in your passport(s) ....the should just be able ti hit a button on their computer and see how many visits and for how long.

[sjaak327]

They would not need to find the stamps in your passport(s) ....the should just be able ti hit a button on their computer and see how many visits and for how long.

You are missing the point here. Of course at the border they should have such a system, where by entering a persons details, a flag would go off if number of entries are more then 3 in a 90 day period. But the point is boarding the plane. Remember airlines could be forced to transport a refused person back to point of origin. So what will happen, will someone without valid toursit visa be allowed to board, are the check in staff going to do a manual search of the passport to find out the number of entries in a certain amount of time.

Someone earlier stated that this was a conspiracy for airlines to make more money, but I see this as a big headache for the airlines.

[Pomrakuhn]

I have dual nationality.. Can hold 4 passports.. My housemate works offshore and has 2 passports that are rammed with stamps..

Do you really think this is going to work ?? And I can tell you with 100% certainty the passport scanning system cannot in real time tell you whatt is going on with entry amounts of time..

Whatever system is proposed has to be enfoced on the ground.. This isnt feasable as described at airline check in.

"

They would not need to find the stamps in your passport(s) ....the should just be able to hit a button on their computer and see how many visits and for how long.

Edited September 12, 2006 by Pomrakuhn

[LivinLOS]

They would not need to find the stamps in your passport(s) ....the should just be able ti hit a button on their computer and see how many visits and for how long.

You are missing the point here. Of course at the border they should have such a system, where by entering a persons details, a flag would go off if number of entries are more then 3 in a 90 day period. But the point is boarding the plane. Remember airlines could be forced to transport a refused person back to point of origin. So what will happen, will someone without valid toursit visa be allowed to board, are the check in staff going to do a manual search of the passport to find out the number of entries in a certain amount of time.

Someone earlier stated that this was a conspiracy for airlines to make more money, but I see this as a big headache for the airlines.

And the dual passport holder who carries his second passport into thailand.. Again no way for airline staff (or immigration IMHO) to know..

The system as proposed wont work.

[bendix]

[q

I am aware of the options.. But bendix wants to make it all sound so easy so I tought I would let him explain..

Investment visa's.. Many reasons why not (gov bonds seem hard to buy, the banks have no capital protection, condo values being poor, high risk environment all round).. Also people may, even if they can afford it, have thier investments strutured so as not to have access to a spare 75k USD..

Try for a one year non imm O.. I though this was all about not bending the rules and following the letter AND THE SPIRIT of the law.. Pot / kettle / black !!!

Tourist visa's.. again is this the spirit of the law.. I see no difference between this and using visa on arrivals if they continue to give them.. If they do clampdown on them again the options are extreemely limited.. Also a tourist visa makes leaving the country for short trips a big problem as 'entries' are watsed each time.. BIG pain in the ass.

Air ticket somewhere else.. Always have my eyes open.

So essentially what your saying is unless you are happy to commit 75k USD to a pretty risky investment you have no legal options following the letter and spirit of the law.. And that seems acceptable ?? That seems smart and well thought out.. To tell residents that employ people, spend a lot (1.5 - 2 mil baht per year) and are no drain on Thai resources whatsoever. That seems good for Thailand PLC ??

Personally I couldnt give a hoot about the spirit of the law and am sure I will be able to stay here without problems.. Had non immigrant visas for the last 3 years even though I technically dont deserve one..

Do I think it's acceptable? Yes, I do.

You're lucky to be retired at 33. Well done. You want to live here - good choice. But you're not prepared to accept the relatively easy option they have tailor-made for you to do so because of some concerns about risks / returns?

Well, hello! That's your choice too, but you can't really complain if your host government makes it a little tough for you, can you?

Would you prefer it if they made a rule specially for your situation?

Again . . . . it is VERY VERY easy to stay here if you follow the rules. You seem exactly the sort of person Thailand is welcoming (successful, bright etc) and has 2-3 visa categories tailormade for you.

Frankly, I'm struggling to think of another country that has such a welcoming immigration regime for the types of people it wants to attract.

[VanZam]

Is there any chance a Mod could set up a poll to get stats on how many people here are currently doing visa runs and how many are on other visa types?

The info would be quite interesting.

Cheers.

[zakk9]

The problem isn't that the new rules are unfair as such, but that the alternatives, unless you are married to a Thai or retired, are either complicated or non-existent.

There are lots of people in the IT-business, reporters, photographers, designers etc. who use Thailand as a hub for their activities, doing work for western companies. For those people (myself included) there are no alternatives to tourist visas, and I see myself being stopped at the border any day now.

While rules in other countries are not perfect either, few of them depend to such a large degree on foreigners, either as tourists or as workers, as Thailand. They day this nation realises that will be a glorious day for all.

I'm sure there will be ways around this. Problems are usually solved in one way or another in this country. But I start to get really, really fed-up with the constant changes of rules, and all the head-aches and extra costs that are the results of those changes.

Many foreigners contribute a lot to the development of this country. It would be nice if we were not left with the impression that we are looked upon as a problem everytime we have some business with the official Thailand.

[CymruAmByth]

The problem isn't that the new rules are unfair as such, but that the alternatives, unless you are married to a Thai or retired, are either complicated or non-existent.

There are lots of people in the IT-business, reporters, photographers, designers etc. who use Thailand as a hub for their activities, doing work for western companies. For those people (myself included) there are no alternatives to tourist visas, and I see myself being stopped at the border any day now.

While rules in other countries are not perfect either, few of them depend to such a large degree on foreigners, either as tourists or as workers, as Thailand. They day this nation realises that will be a glorious day for all.

I'm sure there will be ways around this. Problems are usually solved in one way or another in this country. But I start to get really, really fed-up with the constant changes of rules, and all the head-aches and extra costs that are the results of those changes.

Many foreigners contribute a lot to the development of this country. It would be nice if we were not left with the impression that we are looked upon as a problem everytime we have some business with the official Thailand.

Crap.

1) Set up a Thai company that bills/invoices the relevant Western agencies you perform work for.

2) Set up an Offshore company that you 'represent' in Thailand.

Why is this so difficult for everyone!

[andyc2006]

... and airline check in staff (who must decide if you can get on the plane) also could not do this.

really? says what authority?

i realize that airlines often DO check to make sure a person can legally enter the destination country, but it's within their rights to accept the passenger's money, deliver them to the immigration checkpoint, and allow them to try to enter.

if the person can't enter, he's still responsible for getting himself home. usually that involves changing the date on his return ticket, but sometimes it involves him staying at an airport or being incarcerated until he arranges transportation.

the fact is, airlines that already try to enforce immigration rules make quite a few mistakes... just last january, a chinese friend of mine residing in the states (visa from china, green card from usa) tried to fly from USA to China to Thailand. the airline in china wouldn't let her board the plane to thailand, because they incorrectly thought she wasn't permitted to go there. well, they took it upon themselves to enforce an immigration rule, and ######ed it up. imagine if all airlines were forced to enforce immigrations rules....!

i can tell you that departing the US, they only make sure you have a passport. they don't care if you're denied entry once they drop you off at the destination. that's your problem. i have had friends denied entry (one just flew from Washington DC to Vancouver, Canada!) to countries after taking a plane to an immigration point, and the airline didn't give them a free ride home.

they're not obligated to worry about the immigration laws of all the countries they fly to.