Please help; legal advice bs malicious agency

[WilliamOfBruce]

Hello,

I came down from chiangmai to hatyai to take a job at a government highschool through a certain teaching agency.

One week in, I love my job -- I like my coworkers, the children, and teach an excellent curriculum. But I am having trouble with the agency. From first contact, they have only lied or misled me, constantly. A recent post from a teacher's experience on a 'glass ceiling' website reiterates some of these problems, and then addresses more through her experience.

Since I have been lied to so thoroughly, and clearly set up for failure (which I have overcome,) and otherwise ignored as they fail to follow through on even e most minor promises, I should also mention that he is rude and inconsiderate, and that I expect racism to be a factor in our relationship (he is dark skinned Indian, and I am white.) I have become very curt (I.e., speak only as a lawyer might, through email only,) and am refusing to meet him anywhere other than my teaching office during school hours.

I expect serious repercussions -- perhaps to even be fired tomorrow morning.

The school likes me, and I am sure is happy with my presentation and teaching standard. I'm sure they would be happy to have me continue working with them. Can the agent sever the relationship between me and the school, if the school likes me? -what can the relationship between a government school and agency such as this be like? -can the school itself protect me from a malicious agency?

Also, I have worked a week without a contract, only verbal promises. Nor is it the case that I honestly expect them to deliver a work permit, working visa, (whih I obviously do not trust them to handle. The glass ceiling review said they did not process the working permit or visa at all, and she had to do two visa runs.)

I am prepared to visit the school principal and ministry of labor. I am also eager to sue as soon as it becomes necessary, if it becomes necessary over the course of the next week or two.

May I have some advice please : (. Also maybe any suggestions for a lawyer in hatyai?

Thanks,

David

[bigt3116]

"The school likes me, and I am sure is happy with my presentation and teaching standard. I'm sure they would be happy to have me continue working with them. Can the agent sever the relationship between me and the school, if the school likes me? -what can the relationship between a government school and agency such as this be like? -can the school itself protect me from a malicious agency?

Also, I have worked a week without a contract, only verbal promises. Nor is it the case that I honestly expect them to deliver a work permit, working visa, (whih I obviously do not trust them to handle. The glass ceiling review said they did not process the working permit or visa at all, and she had to do two visa runs.)

I am prepared to visit the school principal and ministry of labor. I am also eager to sue as soon as it becomes necessary, if it becomes necessary over the course of the next week or two."

There is no relationship between you and the school, it is between you and the agency. You can bet that the agency has a clause in their contract with the school that states the school may not hire you directly for X years after you finish work for the agency. (Without facing a huge financial penalty).

You will be suing the agency for what exactly ? Breach of a non-existing contract ? His inability or refusal to meet you anywhere else but where you want and when you want ?

1 week and no work permit is nothing, many people have to wait a lot longer as the employers don't like to risk wasting the money on getting one, and then having the employee leave.

[WilliamOfBruce]

Who are you, and why should I take your opinions seriously? -should I take your post to imply that you do not believe in workers rights, that employees need not be treated with respect, that it is not necessary to be honest, or to follow through with your promises?

Perhaps i think differently? I imagine a judge might, as well.

[thesetat2013]

This happened to me years ago. I spoke with the English department director who in turn called the owner of the agency and although I had to do this several times each time it was solved by the school directly with the owner. However, the director did like me and my teaching style immensely and each time a problem arose it was visibly created by the agency.

I agree with bigt that there is probably a clause between the school and the agency which denies them the ability to hire you independently.

Your best bet is to try approaching the director of the school or your department and explain what is happening. If they like you perhaps they will help. Of not then you should look at this as a lesson. Never trust agencies or agents.

If you are truly qualified to teach in Thailand then it would not be difficult in finding a job on your own.

Just remembering that your agent has control of your salary. Be prepared to take losses if you rock his boat.

My advice is to get out of that agency while you still have some time to find a new job and then once you leave chalk it up to experience and don't do it again.

[WilliamOfBruce]

I have already noted that a written contract must have been committed to prior or in the commencement of employment. This coupled with my other complaints, I think, may warrant a lawsuit if things continue to sour.

[konying]

OP, you do not like what some people are telling you but look at the facts

You have nothing to show, full stop

You do not have a contract, he said, she said means absolutely nothing, so there is nothing you can prove and no one you can sue nor no one to complain about, because once again you have nothing,

Furthermore you have worked for 1 week already without a WP.

What your options are ?As already pointed out, either seek schools help or try to find out how "legal" your agent is.

You stated he was Indian, possibly NOT Thai national, possibly some breaches,, possibly will give you some leverage.

[konying]

I have already noted that a written contract must have been committed to prior or in the commencement of employment. This coupled with my other complaints, I think, may warrant a lawsuit if things continue to sour.

Yeah good luck with filing lawsuit from immigration holding cells, unless you forgotten you are working illegally.

[WilliamOfBruce]

???

If I am working illegally, then what do you suggest? Should I come clean to the ministry of labor right away? Perhaps they will be understanding of my situation if I come clean.

I hope it doesn't come to this...

[konying]

???

If I am working illegally, then what do you suggest? Should I come clean to the ministry of labor right away? Perhaps they will be understanding of my situation if I come clean.

I hope it doesn't come to this...

yeah you do that. you come clean and see what happens

[gerryBScot]

What's your current visa? Is it a visa or some sort of extension of stay? That will determine your legal status. I would avoid immigration at all costs until your legal status is clear. I would also say as others have said that suing is a waste of time and money. Even in the the UK if you were successful in obtaining a judgement you would be lucky to see a penny of it as most debtors would liquidate themselves to prevent judgements being enforced. Can't get blood out of a stone. It's even less efficient here.

If you have the means and the qualifications you might be best advised to seek a job where you are directly employed by a school. But you need to clarify your current status.

[WilliamOfBruce]

Exactly. I'm in my visa exemption, as an American -- and on the extension of it at that. Perhaps I can do a visa run and snag a 3 month tourist visa (including extensions,) but am umcomfortable at the prospect of being refused.

Anyways, if I have have problems and have to do a visa run to work on a tourist visa, I kgyt Hyatt sue in principle f the matter, irregardless getting my money (investment) back -- if at the very least, protecting other foreigners from this some sort indentured servitude, under the thumb of a corrupt management. Im 29, and have a pension that fall back on -- hate to think of young twenty-somethings not a whole unlike myself getting screwed by some incompetent dimwit who thinks that because he tucks his shirt in and has a mother tongue in English thinks he can manage an agency like this, make $200/hour for all the effort he's (neglected) to put in in my behalf, ******, that he can take 10% after falling through in his promises and responsibilities, complaining about racial discrimination when I look at their teaching methods and ****** TEFL strategies, never having fully learned a second alien language for themselves, thinking they're competent to teach English as a foreign language at it, just as incompetent themselves as the 'whiteys' they complain about (but oh, they tuck in their shirts, and punch in at 7:58 eh !)

[gerryBScot]

William teaching in this country can involve eating a lot of humble pie. I've had to eat loads. In fact it is remarkable I'm still working here because I've rocked the boat big style. But looking back, it's not helped me, it's not helped my students, it's given me tons of stress and anxiety. I try to avoid confrontation as much as possible nowadays, I accept my powerlessness sort of thing and focus on the classroom. I love being in the classroom working with the kids - it's constantly challenging and stimulating and only occasionally frustrating.

You have learned something important: don't work for an agency. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get on with it.

[Slip]

What's your current visa? Is it a visa or some sort of extension of stay? That will determine your legal status. I would avoid immigration at all costs until your legal status is clear. I would also say as others have said that suing is a waste of time and money. Even in the the UK if you were successful in obtaining a judgement you would be lucky to see a penny of it as most debtors would liquidate themselves to prevent judgements being enforced. Can't get blood out of a stone. It's even less efficient here.

If you have the means and the qualifications you might be best advised to seek a job where you are directly employed by a school. But you need to clarify your current status.

Nothing more to be added- as usual the wiley Scots are ahead of the loop.

EDIT: And on top of that, despite the sometimes incomprehensible (to some) accents, they are the best speakers of English in the world.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Slip

[gerryBScot]

Exactly. I'm in my visa exemption, as an American -- and on the extension of it at that. Perhaps I can do a visa run and snag a 3 month tourist visa (including extensions,) but am umcomfortable at the prospect of being refused.

Anyways, if I have have problems and have to do a visa run to work on a tourist visa, I kgyt Hyatt sue in principle f the matter, irregardless getting my money (investment) back -- if at the very least, protecting other foreigners from this some sort indentured servitude, under the thumb of a corrupt management. Im 29, and have a pension that fall back on -- hate to think of young twenty-somethings not a whole unlike myself getting screwed by some incompetent dimwit who thinks that because he tucks his shirt in and has a mother tongue in English thinks he can manage an agency like this, make $200/hour for all the effort he's (neglected) to put in in my behalf, ******, that he can take 10% after falling through in his promises and responsibilities, complaining about racial discrimination when I look at their teaching methods and ****** TEFL strategies, never having fully learned a second alien language for themselves, thinking they're competent to teach English as a foreign language at it, just as incompetent themselves as the 'whiteys' they complain about (but oh, they tuck in their shirts, and punch in at 7:58 eh !)

I should add that you are working illegally if it is a visa exemption. At least one other person knows you are working illegally: your agent. He may well try to use that against you and he wouldn't be the first disgruntled agent or school manager to report an illegal worker. I rather fancy that Immigration are a wee bit busy in southern Thailand right now with other issues but you need to rectify your situation immediately.

[lostinisaan]

Exactly. I'm in my visa exemption, as an American -- and on the extension of it at that. Perhaps I can do a visa run and snag a 3 month tourist visa (including extensions,) but am umcomfortable at the prospect of being refused.

You obviously don't get it. You're not allowed to work on a tourist visa, for god's sake. One week and you'd like to sue him?

One phone call, Immigration/DoL comes to your school and you're gone. Try to sue somebody when sitting in an Immigration cell.

​ The agents/agencies have a contract with the school and the school can't hire you directly. It's that easy.

Some posters already gave you the best possible advice. Talk to the principal, but be aware that yes sometime means no and vice versa.

You don't even have a contract, you make your own rules when and where you see the guy you're working for?

The "racist" (and I'm not sure who the racist is now) is trying to make some money and I don't think that he really needs troublemakers.

What people told you is irrelevant. Can you work in America on a tourist visa?

[Slip]

I don't want to flog a dead horse here, but GerryB and LostinIsaan are both absolutely correct in their comments.

[Maestro]

I have already noted that a written contract must have been committed to prior or in the commencement of employment. This coupled with my other complaints, I think, may warrant a lawsuit if things continue to sour.

Are you referring to this statement in your first post in this topic?

Also, I have worked a week without a contract, only verbal promises.

My suggestion is that you stop working immediately.

Afterwards, it is up to you to decide whether you want to sign a contract with this agency, with another agency, or directly with a school. If and when you have have signed a contract, wait until you have your work permit in your hands before you start working at the place stated in your work permit.

[WilliamOfBruce]

You guys are really useless. All of you,

Thanks

[bigt3116]

Who are you, and why should I take your opinions seriously? -should I take your post to imply that you do not believe in workers rights, that employees need not be treated with respect, that it is not necessary to be honest, or to follow through with your promises?

Perhaps i think differently? I imagine a judge might, as well.

If you don't want the answer, don't ask the question. Yet another person who only wants to hear what he wants to hear, not the truth.

[noahvail]

WilliamofBruce, while you might imagine that a judge might think differently, I urge you to think a bit more. Thai law is a hodge-podge of ancient rules and some of British law, but not all. For instance, it is good that you did not name the agency, because libel laws are quite strict in this country, as is the computer crimes act (you did post on a forum). And contrary to libel laws in the West, in Thailand Truth Is No Defense. Did you know that case law (precedent) has no weight here? And do you know how judges are appointed - go through law school, then take a written test. No experience or peer review like the West.

I understand your frustration with the situation, and that frustration leads to anger and anger to attitude. But in Thailand attitude just works against you. Fact of life.

You've had good advice from some people with many years in the system. Their advice is sound. Let me just add that should you decide to take legal action against this agent, you will no doubt spend several years and several hundreds of thousands of baht in lawyer and court fees up front, and end up with no satisfaction. Good luck to you. I hope your future goes more smoothly and happily than your past.

[lostinisaan]

You guys are really useless. All of you,

Thanks

Please see the needed steps:

TVF-services-20120410-204531-918186 (1).pdf

[WilliamOfBruce]

Wow, you went through a lot of effort to reply like that , thank you. I will treasure this resource always

[colinneil]

You guys are really useless. All of you,

Thanks

As already been said you are working illegaly.

I am better than anybody hello !! wake up !! shut up before you get reported for working without a work permit.

[rct99q]

Almost fell out of my chair laughing....an american suing an agency in thailand. And you left chiangmai for it..

must be a troll post, nobody could be this simple.

[WilliamOfBruce]

I didn't realize this forum was for lonely grumpy old men !!

[bigt3116]

I didn't realize this forum was for lonely grumpy old men !!

No, it is for pathetic little boys such as yourself too. :-)

[lostinisaan]

I didn't realize this forum was for lonely grumpy old men !!

No, it is for pathetic little boys such as yourself too. :-)

Please don't be so hard on him, now. He came all the way from the northern part of this country.

You know where I get a kick out of? His message that all the students, teachers and even the director of that school like him so much after only one week.

And the Indian racist, who has to please to see his employee, while the employee is more "acting like a lawyer and is only communicating with his boss via e-mail".says it all.

Too much of George W. Bullshit can be dangerous for your brain. Calling the guys on this forum "grumpy old men" is a funny one for me.

I'm 55, got a lovely wife, we're married for 13 years and we still love each other a lot. Does that fit to this guy's message?

My favorite subject is psychology and just reading his posts and then thinking about having such a nice colleague does something to my stomach. .

Sorry, gotta go now, have to throw up. OP, please make sure that your mama knows where the Immigration hotel in Hat Yaj is.

Edited May 25, 2015 by lostinisaan

[konying]

I didn't realize this forum was for lonely grumpy old men !!

Not all old, but many are grumpy, including myself.

I hope you do file a law suit against the agency and do report to immigration, because i would love to read the tail of that story

[lostinisaan]

I didn't realize this forum was for lonely grumpy old men !!

Not all old, but many are grumpy, including myself.

I hope you do file a law suit against the agency and do report to immigration, because i would love to read the tail of that story

And we all visit him, bring him money, pizza, beer, short timers, and pay for a ticket back to Disneyland. The TVF community is unique.

[Rhys]

YEah right, you are going to sue.. and just what do you think is going to happen? They are suddenly going see things your way... However, go ahead.. a learning experience...

Learn to sniff out a job on your own.. you will do much better..

Cheers Mate