Who has the rights if parents seperated

[2008bangkok]

Me and my wife have separated but have 2 young children, things are becoming nasty on her side and basically one lives with me and i allow her to see anytime and another lives with her but only because she has basically hidden him changed the schools and wont tell me the new school, wont open the door in her apartment and told her place of the work not to allow me in.

So in a nutshell she has basically kidnapped 1 of the children and refuses to tell me where, so i was wondering what the best course of action is,if we was in uk i think mother has main rights but even still im sure she wouldn't be allowed to do what she is doing but here in Thailand i understand its 50/50 rights as legal father(birth cert and marriage)

Of course her excuse that she is not letting me see my 6 yr old is he doesn't want to see me for a comment i made to him but he is 6 and not able to make those choices and its just an excuse.

Its unfortunate that she has become a bitter person and has to resort to stealing children to make her point and just rubber stamps my reasons for not being with her anymore but i need to know what are my options hopefully without getting fleeced by a lawyer because I'm sure as hell she wont get one.

Thanks in advance

[NeverSure]

Does she have sufficient income? I would offer her some child support in exchange for seeing the children on a regular schedule. I would want to support my kids anyway, and this could possibly keep you out of court as you could withhold the support any time you needed to.

[benalibina]

Read below link.

Without knowing more than you stated, IMHO this kind of behaviour by our ex does alot more damage to your kids than you realize. It borders, no it is, pure childabuse. If I were you try to speak to your ex inlaws to make her stop using the child as a pawn in a game to get even with you. This kind of behaviour by her should make it clear for you that she is an unfit parent. Any parent who...abuses...a child is unfit. She obviously does not care about her child emotional wellbeing.

As in below link, act swiftly before it will drag on in time. With enormous consequences. For you and your children.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406005-abdution-of-my-daughter-by-my-thai-wife/

Good luck.

[Mario2008]

You both have equal rights, unless a court says otherwise or you agreed to a different scenario as part of the divorce agreement at the amphur.

Try to avoid a legal fight, it will only get nastier. First try to normalize things with the help of a family member of a respected village elder such as a headmaster/monk etc.

[2008bangkok]

Iv been trying my best to get on for the sake of the kids, but for some reason she just wont sit down like grown adults and talk and come to an agreement, its so black and white with her, if I have the kid she doesnt seems to wants to see our daughter and if she our son doesnt expect me to do the same, she is so off balance in her thoughts that she is not capable of long term taking care of either kid and it just shows how mature she is to hide our 6 yr old boy.

Sadly there are no parents or anybody in the area to try and reason with her and like i said the people who you would expect landlord, colleagues etc dont want to know.

I tell you if I had know she would become this monster things would have been different.

[oneday]

You both have equal rights, unless a court says otherwise or you agreed to a different scenario as part of the divorce agreement at the amphur.

Try to avoid a legal fight, it will only get nastier. First try to normalize things with the help of a family member of a respected village elder such as a headmaster/monk etc.

Actually, my memory from the same question posed under one of TV's lawyer questions was this.

Even if the father is listed on the birth certificate at a hospital it confers no rights to the father. The only thing that confers rights to the father is if the birth was registered at an Amphur office and he was listed as the father on THEIR document. Without this I remember the lawyer saying that in Thailand the mother has 100% rights unless this has been done.

It's a very sad situation. Civilized countries would not be so arbitrary, certainly not in this day and age of DNA testing and just asking a few questions of the family and neighbors.

[Remi080]

Hi, im sorry to hear that you are in this position as im still in it to, but im almost done with it.

Your story will get long and hard, trust me on that. It all depends on your will.

To make a short list for you, and please trust me, i know exactly where im talking about.

You told us that she wont get a lawer for sure, trust me if you are sure with this you won already the custody.

Please make sure you are legal in thai and have all your documents with you.

Copy passport's of you and children, birth certificate, work permits or visa, make all copy of it and translate if they are not in thai language. You realy need the child birth certificate.

If you can prove you can take care your children better than she can ( financially) you got not a lot to worry about, yes this is a thai thing you already know.

Find a lawyer who is able to comunicate in english very well. Collect as much prove as posseble, even when you talk on the phone, record is and let her say things that way you got something against her what you can use. Like the fact she keep away your child from you. Make her say it record it. Chat history, copy print it out with time and date.

Make a whole package of prove.

Besides this all, you really must think by your self, who is wrong and who is right, we can not do this for you. I just give you some advice.

As well i dont know if you are maried in thai, or just in the UK. What do you have to share as it comes to a divorce. All these things you must write down for your self if you want to go to WAR.

No one is waiting here for my story, i won my custody for my child, i had the rights, but my ex came to thai with her second ID (Dutch) as be a tourist and stole my child from me and bought a pasport or some travle document in thai to bring my daughter backt to holland. Now i sue her in two countrys and go to court in 2 countrys, hell yea she is so wrong. Nothing to save her now.

But enaugh of it, listen man, they are so <deleted> smart becouse thai have such diffrence in the law. If you want to fight it, you better prepair it well, and never tell information to no freakin one. Not even your friends. You can win this only if your strong and realy want it. Sorry my pour english. If you need more information let me know. I know quite much becouse i speak thai well.

[technologybytes]

I assume that at some point in the relationship she was reasonable, after all you had 2 kids together.

Try to find out what her motivation is and what is making her act this way, then try to find a solution.

There are always 2 sides to a story, only when hers is known can anyone help.

[SOTIRIOS]

....the objective of this small-minded sicko is to 'win' over you......

...at any costs....including the childrens' well-being......

...and of course....the only way this sicko can win is to......'make up the rules'....

....I am living the same hell......except both my daughters are with the psycho at an undisclosed location....

.....and pending several legal cases that will be brought forth....all expected to be in my favor.....

....if I am not set on by one of the memebers of the psycho gang beforehand.....

.....as has been stated point-blank........'Just 1 phone call Sam......and.....'

....(more of those psycho rules)

[Mario2008]

You both have equal rights, unless a court says otherwise or you agreed to a different scenario as part of the divorce agreement at the amphur.

Try to avoid a legal fight, it will only get nastier. First try to normalize things with the help of a family member of a respected village elder such as a headmaster/monk etc.

Actually, my memory from the same question posed under one of TV's lawyer questions was this.

Even if the father is listed on the birth certificate at a hospital it confers no rights to the father. The only thing that confers rights to the father is if the birth was registered at an Amphur office and he was listed as the father on THEIR document. Without this I remember the lawyer saying that in Thailand the mother has 100% rights unless this has been done.

It's a very sad situation. Civilized countries would not be so arbitrary, certainly not in this day and age of DNA testing and just asking a few questions of the family and neighbors.

That is incorrect. The birth certificate is largely irrelevant.

If you are married to the mother at the time of birth, you are the legal father by default no matter what it says on the birth certificate.

If you are not married to the mother at the time of birth, you are not the legal father regardless of if you are mentioned on the birth certificate. Only going though the process of legitimizing the child will than make you the legal father. (even if another person is named as the father on the birth certificate).

[sir charles IV]

Interesting how those in a similar situation use similar languages. Psycho, nasty, etc. referring to how evil their wives can be and never talk about their own shortcomings. For example op states she does not open her apartment door and has told work not to let him in. It sounds like a case of harassment and ignoring her right/wishes for him to stay away. In some countries he can go to jail for this behaviour!

[MaeJoMTB]

Don't let her see the one you have.

As things stand (no divorce, and therefor no court order for custody)

The parent that has them can hide them and keep them.

This ain't the west, and the rules are different.

[2008bangkok]

Interesting how those in a similar situation use similar languages. Psycho, nasty, etc. referring to how evil their wives can be and never talk about their own shortcomings. For example op states she does not open her apartment door and has told work not to let him in. It sounds like a case of harassment and ignoring her right/wishes for him to stay away. In some countries he can go to jail for this behaviour!

Interesting point of view, one might thing that people doing things that wouldnt enter there own mind set are nasty.

I should also point out that going to the apartment and place of work is out of desperation and she was well forewarned that if she didnt tell me where my son was i would come..

I assume that you are not a parent because if you was how could you sit back and do nothing and just let the other parent take and hide your child. You do as much as you possibly can.. within the law.

[MaeJoMTB]

Interesting how those in a similar situation use similar languages. Psycho, nasty, etc. referring to how evil their wives can be and never talk about their own shortcomings. For example op states she does not open her apartment door and has told work not to let him in. It sounds like a case of harassment and ignoring her right/wishes for him to stay away. In some countries he can go to jail for this behaviour!

Interesting point of view, one might thing that people doing things that wouldnt enter there own mind set are nasty.

I should also point out that going to the apartment and place of work is out of desperation and she was well forewarned that if she didnt tell me where my son was i would come..

I assume that you are not a parent because if you was how could you sit back and do nothing and just let the other parent take and hide your child. You do as much as you possibly can.. within the law.

Sir Charles doesn't understand it is mainly women that use access restrictions as a weapon against fathers.

He's been propagandized with the 'all women are angels, all men are devils' western feminist culture.

It's a sad fact that many men betray their own sex at every opportunity.

The law here is, if you have them, you can hide them, and nothing the other can do.

No matter what you wish the law to be, that is the reality.

Best advice I can give, having sadly played this game for years with no result,

Take the one you have and disappear, never to contact the former wife or lost child again.

Better one than none, better a life looking forward than a life looking back.

Edited May 28, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[wowfactor10]

You both have equal rights, unless a court says otherwise or you agreed to a different scenario as part of the divorce agreement at the amphur.

Try to avoid a legal fight, it will only get nastier. First try to normalize things with the help of a family member of a respected village elder such as a headmaster/monk etc.

Actually, my memory from the same question posed under one of TV's lawyer questions was this.

Even if the father is listed on the birth certificate at a hospital it confers no rights to the father. The only thing that confers rights to the father is if the birth was registered at an Amphur office and he was listed as the father on THEIR document. Without this I remember the lawyer saying that in Thailand the mother has 100% rights unless this has been done.

It's a very sad situation. Civilized countries would not be so arbitrary, certainly not in this day and age of DNA testing and just asking a few questions of the family and neighbors.

yes u are right...the father has zero rights here cause he is not the legal father duhhh..u need more documents signed by the mom for that but now she wont sign u anything..The birth certificate that mentions u as the father means strangely nothing in this country...

U can only try talk about a monthly fee for her and ur kids with ur demand of still seeing ur kids..Only money might help u a bit..

Angry Thais are very often totally irrational and not even care for their own kids there well being over their personal angers.

[Mario2008]

Nothing strange about the name of the father on the birth certificate not meaning anything. That is the case in many countries.

It is only a claim by the person who reports the birth that mr. X is the father, that doesn't make it true. Otherwise you could name the pope as the father and he would be the made to pay?

[wowfactor10]

Nothing strange about the name of the father on the birth certificate not meaning anything. That is the case in many countries.

It is only a claim by the person who reports the birth that mr. X is the father, that doesn't make it true. Otherwise you could name the pope as the father and he would be the made to pay?

No it is weird..

This official birth certificate signed by the mother and the father and that also selects about the first and last names has then in reality zero legal means for the father in a thai court...Mate that is weird and does not see to be correct

[Mario2008]

The birth certificate is not signed by both mother and father. Only the person registering the birth, and that doesn't have to be one of the parents, signs.

The last name is always that of the mother or the father.

[2008bangkok]

If the father on the birth certificate has zero rights then whats the point in putting the box there in the first place, very stupid if you ask me and must have been wriiten by a first year law man or worse...., how crappy would that be if you was not married brought up your son for 10-15 years only to have an argument with the girlfriend and for he to disapear and never to be seen again or the child, would be crap.

fortunately i have the legal father and i do have rights so im going to pursue them as miuch as i possibly can, im curious for those who have been through a similar experience how much the whole thing cost in financial fees?

[Mario2008]

That is why one should legitimise the child, so you will have rights.

[2008bangkok]

another weird scenario is that you can be registered on the birth certificate in thailand which is place of birth and have no rights and then get a UK passport based by birth right and then have all the rights a father should have in the UK, i would imagine also that if you cam back in to thailand with the same child but with a UK passport instead of a thailand passport then things would be different as the child is then a UK citizen rather than a thai one??

[Mario2008]

No, you might be the legal father in the UK but you will still not be in Thailand. Only when you live in the UK and properly legitimize the child under British law will Thailand recognize this.

[wowfactor10]

The birth certificate is not signed by both mother and father. Only the person registering the birth, and that doesn't have to be one of the parents, signs.

The last name is always that of the mother or the father.

They should amend their birth certificate in Thailand then..cause now its a worthless piece of paper...

Should be Signed by mother and father and with selection of first and last names of the child..

But they wont cause this suites them better.

most of us do not know any procedure and meanwhile the Thai mother here has all the rights..

[MaeJoMTB]

No, you might be the legal father in the UK but you will still not be in Thailand. Only when you live in the UK and properly legitimize the child under British law will Thailand recognize this.

In Thailand, Thai law counts.

In England, English law counts.

Strange that many posters fail to understand.

[MaeJoMTB]

The birth certificate is not signed by both mother and father. Only the person registering the birth, and that doesn't have to be one of the parents, signs.

The last name is always that of the mother or the father.

They should amend their birth certificate in Thailand then..cause now its a worthless piece of paper...

Should be Signed by mother and father and with selection of first and last names of the child..

But they wont cause this suites them better.

most of us do not know any procedure and meanwhile the Thai mother here has all the rights..

In the UK neither parent signs the birth certificate. But both are required to be present.

In Thailand neither parent signs the birth certificate, and neither parent is required to be present.

[connda]

I guess it depends if you are the Thai National or if you are the <cha-ching> Farang.

[2008bangkok]

The birth certificate is not signed by both mother and father. Only the person registering the birth, and that doesn't have to be one of the parents, signs.

The last name is always that of the mother or the father.

They should amend their birth certificate in Thailand then..cause now its a worthless piece of paper...

Should be Signed by mother and father and with selection of first and last names of the child..

But they wont cause this suites them better.

most of us do not know any procedure and meanwhile the Thai mother here has all the rights..

In the UK neither parent signs the birth certificate. But both are required to be present.

In Thailand neither parent signs the birth certificate, and neither parent is required to be present.

Looking at all my birth certificates I se the difference between my own uk one and my kids thai one is my dad's signature is on mine as ' the informant' where as my kids ones even though I was the one who went down to the little Booth and registered both of them my signature is not on either of them, there is however 3 signatures just not mine

[2008bangkok]

Also comparing names it seems they put the mother's maiden name on the birth certificate. Aswell, can anybody confined this?

[Remi080]

I have won the custody for my daughter, born in thai. Birthcertificate of thai and translated in english. Both not signed by the parents, just signed by the person of the district of birth and in charge. My ID number is not ever on that document, I think you all talk to much about 1 topic, get scared with inrelevant information about the problem itself. My excusses if i am wrong to all others.

If there is a birth certificate of your child with a printed name of the father and the mother, both have equal rights. Farang or thai does not matther, if both are maried can be in thai or abroad.

If you guys are maried, she can not keep away your child from you as this is illegal. The law just need hard prove that she does do this to you. With the prove you can win this case, if you want a case. I gues your not here to get some attention so every one sit here feel sorry for you, stop crying and get off your ass. That is what i did. Make contact by phone, record it, try to chat and try to find a solution together. Not forget to safe the chat history! The more prove, the stronger you are. But if you are not seriouse enaugh , or like " oh its all good to me, or whatever" just dont do the case, live on and accept the way things go. Oh before I forget, the time you write up and down here on this site you could better invest the time with real time information from some pro-deo lawyer in bangkok. They know just as much, and for a little money they are very usefull sometimes, but dont stare yourself blind to 1 obstacle. Move on man. Keep walking.

[Mario2008]

A Thai birth certificate has the child's first and last name and the name of the mother and the name of the father.

Unless married, the child will have the last name of the mother, as she is the sole legal parent. However, many amphurs allow the child to have the last name of the father when not married. I am not sure that is legal and some amphurs refuse to give a child the last name of the father when not married.