The Purrfect Bike for Thailand.

[bobfish]

"The Purrfect Bike for Thailand." With apologies to Moonoi.!! Thought I'd start a thread which I'm sure will have many strong opinions....

Okay; here's my assumptions [which you are of course free to ignore! ]

1. n=1. You have only one bike.

2. Bike for Thailand.

3 That means it has to be able to do; road, offroad [let's say mild single track] and really steep climb/descents in the north, as well as bikepack.

So. what's going to work? My initial thought is a hybridish 'cross bike; ti, flat bars [with ends] and maybe mtb gearing......

[moonoi]

No need to apologize ;-) although that GT would be a good contender, I'd actually go with a CX bike, like the Giant TCX SLR2 I'm hoping to pick up sometime this month. I prefer drop bars to flat bars, just because of the variety of hand positions you have for long days in the saddle.

46/36 and 11/28 cassette with Shimano 105 11 speed, seems like a good compromise for on road and some single track to me (and the reason why I decided to pick one up).

Maybe you could drop the inner chainring to a 34, or stick an 11-36 cassette on, for a lower granny gear, but for most applications I think this would suffice.

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-gb/bikes/model/tcx.slr.2/19221/77317/#specifications

Edited June 1, 2015 by moonoi

[bobfish]

Moonoi, I hear you, and I covet a TCX!!!

Here's why, for ONE bike, I'm thinking flatbar/MTB gearing and shoes:

This season I found myself way too far from Doi Saket on my road bike, 1400m up, fading light and reduced to slippery single track. Blame Google maps.

I'm afraid there's no manly way to say this: my 11/32 was not enough on the 20deg ++ climbs, and on the descents, my Conti GP's [25's] were more than a little overwhelmed.... As was I; although I of course assumed a calm and cool outward demeanor . The seed of thought regarding the perfect Thailand bike was thus developed alongside a growing appreciation of Road vs MTB SPD's for hike-a-bike.

I know I'm defining the bike to personal tastes here; but that's the idea!

[moonoi]

Agree completely on the shoes. I'll be using Time ATAC XC pedals with my Sidi MTB shoes on this bike l, precisely for the reasons you mention. Plus if I ever get to do any CX, that's also the best setup ;-)

[h90]

A bit off topic: At the gear I would consider the heat as well. I did some step hills on the road. The problem in the May heat + moisture + direct sun is not that I can't do the gear, I overheat and would need a easier gear just to relax.

Are these 3 gears in the front compatible with 11 gears on the back? That would give the most flexibility for everything.

[CNXBKKMAN]

I would select a cyclo cross type bike.

Triple chainset is a must for steep hills, tracks and mountains. Also for when you are really tired at the end of a long ride and there are still hills to climb or you are touring fully loaded.

Mtb spd pedals so you can walk about better.

Drop bars because of the multi hand position and i like them.

The bike would probably be a Surly Cross Check because its got braze ons, bosses and drillings for front and rear racks when you need them. You can run it as a fastish road bike with 700x28 tyres or go 700x50 which i believe is called "Monster Cross". Most of the time i would run 700x32 road tyres which work great off road nearly all of the time plus are comfy and fast on the road. I am using Specialzed Borough CX at the moment, it only has a few side nobbles. Works great off road and it semi slick.

The Cross Check has horizontal rear dropouts for a single speed setup or a Rolhoff.

[malathione]

No need to apologize ;-) although that GT would be a good contender, I'd actually go with a CX bike, like the Giant TCX SLR2 I'm hoping to pick up sometime this month. I prefer drop bars to flat bars, just because of the variety of hand positions you have for long days in the saddle.

Hmm, timely discussion.

I was thinking of getting a new bike in a few months, as well, and the Giant TCX is among the contenders as is the Specialized Diverge (which I might have to pick up on my next trip home).

One thing that worries me, though. The bulk of my rides tend to be long and not too hilly but on bad road surfaces. I wonder if the geometry of these bikes is up to doing centuries ,or, rather, if I am up to doing centuries on these bikes. I might be better served by a Roubaix or a Defy Advanced 2 type geometry.

[moonoi]

No need to apologize ;-) although that GT would be a good contender, I'd actually go with a CX bike, like the Giant TCX SLR2 I'm hoping to pick up sometime this month. I prefer drop bars to flat bars, just because of the variety of hand positions you have for long days in the saddle.

Hmm, timely discussion.

I was thinking of getting a new bike in a few months, as well, and the Giant TCX is among the contenders as is the Specialized Diverge (which I might have to pick up on my next trip home).

One thing that worries me, though. The bulk of my rides tend to be long and not too hilly but on bad road surfaces. I wonder if the geometry of these bikes is up to doing centuries ,or, rather, if I am up to doing centuries on these bikes. I might be better served by a Roubaix or a Defy Advanced 2 type geometry.

I think it depends on you, I don't really like a very upright riding position, preferring a more aggressive position, as strangely a more upright position makes my back ache. I can do century rides easily on my TCR Advanced SL ISP, I want the TCX for more casual riding and to be able to ride a bit of single track, which the TCR will struggle with.

[villagefarang]

I am really happy so far with my Trek Domane 6.9 disc with 700x28. The only thing I worry about is a couple of hills over 20% that I don’t dare try yet because of having fewer gears than on my mtb. I may have to switch to mtb shoes so I can walk part of it if necessary.

[kaorop]

My Trek STP 400 fits that bill, though, I dont feel you can have 1 bike for all.

Right now I have to many, but a few are vintage/collectable/show off so dont really count.

(mind you the Trek is 'vintage', well in terms of mtbs)

Edited June 2, 2015 by kaorop

[bobfish]

I would select a cyclo cross type bike.

Triple chainset is a must for steep hills, tracks and mountains. Also for when you are really tired at the end of a long ride and there are still hills to climb or you are touring fully loaded.

Mtb spd pedals so you can walk about better.

Drop bars because of the multi hand position and i like them.

The bike would probably be a Surly Cross Check because its got braze ons, bosses and drillings for front and rear racks when you need them. You can run it as a fastish road bike with 700x28 tyres or go 700x50 which i believe is called "Monster Cross". Most of the time i would run 700x32 road tyres which work great off road nearly all of the time plus are comfy and fast on the road. I am using Specialzed Borough CX at the moment, it only has a few side nobbles. Works great off road and it semi slick.

The Cross Check has horizontal rear dropouts for a single speed setup or a Rolhoff.

Yes, I think I'd need a triple.... I'd also probably look at the Surly Straggler - basically a Crosscheck with disc brakes. With drop bars, is it worth fitting cross type 'upper' brake levers as well?

[h90]

I am really happy so far with my Trek Domane 6.9 disc with 700x28. The only thing I worry about is a couple of hills over 20% that I don’t dare try yet because of having fewer gears than on my mtb. I may have to switch to mtb shoes so I can walk part of it if necessary.

If there are bigger gears for the hub, you can easily switch them in 5 min with the right tools. I recently switched from 11-28 to 12-25.....5 min if you don't make something stupid (as I did).

[bobfish]

Agreed. A wide range cassette capability would be needed.

Looking around now.....The Salsa Fargo comes with the 11-36 cassette and 28-42 crank. Looks sweet; large Racing Ralph tyres and I'd be out of excuses. The 'dropbars' as factory fitted look a little different: has anyone experience with this type??

[My concern with dropbars is only on steep technical downhills, where its difficult to move weight fore/aft while braking. Last time, I thought the seat would rupture my spleen!!!]

[h90]

Agreed. A wide range cassette capability would be needed.

Looking around now.....The Salsa Fargo comes with the 11-36 cassette and 28-42 crank. Looks sweet; large Racing Ralph tyres and I'd be out of excuses. The 'dropbars' as factory fitted look a little different: has anyone experience with this type??

[My concern with dropbars is only on steep technical downhills, where its difficult to move weight fore/aft while braking. Last time, I thought the seat would rupture my spleen!!!]

If it is standard Shimano, don't worry about the cassette, you can change it easily yourself.

I have 50/34 crank and before 11/28 (now 12/25) cassette and it is good for the street. So I guess yours is good for everywhere.

But I would prefer 3 on the crank for that big space of difference.

[CNXBKKMAN]

I would select a cyclo cross type bike.

Triple chainset is a must for steep hills, tracks and mountains. Also for when you are really tired at the end of a long ride and there are still hills to climb or you are touring fully loaded.

Mtb spd pedals so you can walk about better.

Drop bars because of the multi hand position and i like them.

The bike would probably be a Surly Cross Check because its got braze ons, bosses and drillings for front and rear racks when you need them. You can run it as a fastish road bike with 700x28 tyres or go 700x50 which i believe is called "Monster Cross". Most of the time i would run 700x32 road tyres which work great off road nearly all of the time plus are comfy and fast on the road. I am using Specialzed Borough CX at the moment, it only has a few side nobbles. Works great off road and it semi slick.

The Cross Check has horizontal rear dropouts for a single speed setup or a Rolhoff.

Yes, I think I'd need a triple.... I'd also probably look at the Surly Straggler - basically a Crosscheck with disc brakes. With drop bars, is it worth fitting cross type 'upper' brake levers as well?

I have never felt the need for those top of the bars brake levers. I have always been ok braking from the hoods or the drops.

The Salsa Fargo could be a good contender as a one and only bike. Its a bit more MTB than a cross check/ straggler but not as sporty on the roads. I think i would still prefer the CC or Strag though. I have no experience with those drop bars on the Fargo but i would like pair. I don't think they are sold in Thailand. Planet X in the UK seem to have good selection of "alt" bars. Next time i go back i am going to buy some. Quite often on discount on their website.

Off roading i always change to the drops for any tricky sections or steep downhill. You can brake and move about a bit no problem. Body pushed back, arms stretched out, arse over the back wheel, mid thighs gripping the seat. One or two fingers on the brake levers.

The only thing you cant really do on a cyclo cross type bike is fast downhill unless the trail was fairly smooth.

[bobfish]

I would select a cyclo cross type bike.

Triple chainset is a must for steep hills, tracks and mountains. Also for when you are really tired at the end of a long ride and there are still hills to climb or you are touring fully loaded.

Mtb spd pedals so you can walk about better.

Drop bars because of the multi hand position and i like them.

The bike would probably be a Surly Cross Check because its got braze ons, bosses and drillings for front and rear racks when you need them. You can run it as a fastish road bike with 700x28 tyres or go 700x50 which i believe is called "Monster Cross". Most of the time i would run 700x32 road tyres which work great off road nearly all of the time plus are comfy and fast on the road. I am using Specialzed Borough CX at the moment, it only has a few side nobbles. Works great off road and it semi slick.

The Cross Check has horizontal rear dropouts for a single speed setup or a Rolhoff.

Yes, I think I'd need a triple.... I'd also probably look at the Surly Straggler - basically a Crosscheck with disc brakes. With drop bars, is it worth fitting cross type 'upper' brake levers as well?

I have never felt the need for those top of the bars brake levers. I have always been ok braking from the hoods or the drops.

The Salsa Fargo could be a good contender as a one and only bike. Its a bit more MTB than a cross check/ straggler but not as sporty on the roads. I think i would still prefer the CC or Strag though. I have no experience with those drop bars on the Fargo but i would like pair. I don't think they are sold in Thailand. Planet X in the UK seem to have good selection of "alt" bars. Next time i go back i am going to buy some. Quite often on discount on their website.

Off roading i always change to the drops for any tricky sections or steep downhill. You can brake and move about a bit no problem. Body pushed back, arms stretched out, arse over the back wheel, mid thighs gripping the seat. One or two fingers on the brake levers.

The only thing you cant really do on a cyclo cross type bike is fast downhill unless the trail was fairly smooth.

Maybe the downhill position is something you need to get used to: I'm not expecting a DH spec experience, but so far I've felt too stretched out to apply any weight shift, and arse was more 'sunshine up' than over the back wheel!!!.... So I was thinking the CX top bar levers or a shorter top tube might help?

[chiangmaiexpat]

The answer maybe disappointing, but there is no single bicycle that can possibly fit these requirements. It is difficult enough to create a bike that climbs and descends equally well on steep gradients because the frame geometries for doing that are on opposite ends, but if you throw road riding and touring into the equation, you are asking the impossible. This is of course not at all specific to riding in Thailand. So in practice, you always have to make compromises when getting only one bicycle. The real question to ask is: what style of riding will the bicycle be used for most of the time?

If you are more on- that offroad, then a cyclocrosser may be the answer, if you spend equal times on- and offroad, then perhaps an XC frame with light tyres, and if you are mostly offroad, then an XC or trail bike would be a good choice. But if you are serious about any of these, then n+1 is the obvious answer.

BTW, I didn't come across any gradient in Northern Thailand that cannot be conquered with a standard 2x10 MTB gearing. Yes, there are impossible gradients, but your front wheel will lose traction and simply rise into the air before pedaling becomes a problem.

Cheers, CM-Expat

[bobfish]

The answer maybe disappointing, but there is no single bicycle that can possibly fit these requirements. It is difficult enough to create a bike that climbs and descends equally well on steep gradients because the frame geometries for doing that are on opposite ends, but if you throw road riding and touring into the equation, you are asking the impossible. This is of course not at all specific to riding in Thailand. So in practice, you always have to make compromises when getting only one bicycle. The real question to ask is: what style of riding will the bicycle be used for most of the time?

If you are more on- that offroad, then a cyclocrosser may be the answer, if you spend equal times on- and offroad, then perhaps an XC frame with light tyres, and if you are mostly offroad, then an XC or trail bike would be a good choice. But if you are serious about any of these, then n+1 is the obvious answer.

BTW, I didn't come across any gradient in Northern Thailand that cannot be conquered with a standard 2x10 MTB gearing. Yes, there are impossible gradients, but your front wheel will lose traction and simply rise into the air before pedaling becomes a problem.

Cheers, CM-Expat

You are right. Of course It is a rhetorical question, and one that is very specifically, individual. I enjoy all of the input and [at the same time] personalised responses to the "if only I had one bike in Thailand" question.

My own leaning is more MTB, but I fully appreciate other views expressed regarding road/touring preferences.

I have real problems limiting myself to only n+1 . At the same time, having just the one bike to throw in the back of the pickup/airplane and spend some quality time exploring Thailand is maybe a dreambike worthy of consideration....

[CNXBKKMAN]

A MTB would work as a "one bike" . I am thinking a regular 26 inch hard tail. 26x1.25 or 1.50 for touring or faster road riding and fat tyres for off road. Swapping the tyres out would work well on a 29er as well if that suited better.

[chiangmaiexpat]

I enjoy all of the input and [at the same time] personalised responses to the "if only I had one bike in Thailand" question.

OK, but that sounds like a different question.

It's always a personal choice. If I could have only one bike, it would be this here. It's an enduro bike with an aggressive geometry, 160mm travel, but it is also phenomenally light at 12kg and climbs very well. Sort of a do-it-all MTB with a DH bias made by Liteville, Germany. The alternative would be a Santa Cruz Nomad, which has a similar concept, but here is the thing... you get 10 years transferable warranty on a Liteville frame... and the 301 frame is adjustable; it can be built up as an enduro, AM, or marathon race bike. So I guess, flexibility is at max with this frame.

Cheers, CM-Expat

[kaorop]

Bit off topic but doesnt require a whole thread

I have a dropper post on one of my bikes and i can say, before i thought nah "gimmick" now i love it,

not just for DH, around the roads/tracks it makes life much easier.

When stopping I just drop the post and I can have 2 feet on the ground and sitting comfortably, take off,and metre or 2 and pop the post up and away.

Also with cruising around, like waiting for someone or around towns its nice to have it half mast, so you dont the unwieldy unstable tall feeling at slow speeds and in tight confines.

One problem is, its difficult to go on my other bike and do without it!

[h90]

I enjoy all of the input and [at the same time] personalised responses to the "if only I had one bike in Thailand" question.

OK, but that sounds like a different question.

It's always a personal choice. If I could have only one bike, it would be this here. It's an enduro bike with an aggressive geometry, 160mm travel, but it is also phenomenally light at 12kg and climbs very well. Sort of a do-it-all MTB with a DH bias made by Liteville, Germany. The alternative would be a Santa Cruz Nomad, which has a similar concept, but here is the thing... you get 10 years transferable warranty on a Liteville frame... and the 301 frame is adjustable; it can be built up as an enduro, AM, or marathon race bike. So I guess, flexibility is at max with this frame.

Cheers, CM-Expat

"All Mountain Werksmaschine" That doesn't make sense in German, nor in English......"Factory Machine" And where is the machine?

[chiangmaiexpat]

I have a dropper post on one of my bikes and i can say, before i thought nah "gimmick" now i love it,

not just for DH, around the roads/tracks it makes life much easier.

Yeah, dropper posts are great, and I would have installed one already, if I wasn't planning on switching bikes soon. But... DH is probably a discipline where you don't need one.

"All Mountain Werksmaschine" That doesn't make sense in German, nor in English......"Factory Machine" And where is the machine?

"All Mountain" denotes the category of the build (there are three different ones to choose from) and "Werksmaschine" is Liteville's designation for "stock build". - A bicycle is a machine after all, isn't it?

Cheers, CM-Expat

Edited June 5, 2015 by chiangmaiexpat

[h90]

I have a dropper post on one of my bikes and i can say, before i thought nah "gimmick" now i love it,

not just for DH, around the roads/tracks it makes life much easier.

Yeah, dropper posts are great, and I would have installed one already, if I wasn't planning on switching bikes soon. But... DH is probably a discipline where you don't need one.

"All Mountain Werksmaschine" That doesn't make sense in German, nor in English......"Factory Machine" And where is the machine?

"All Mountain" denotes the category of the build (there are three different ones to choose from) and "Werksmaschine" is Liteville's designation for "stock build". - A bicycle is a machine after all, isn't it?

Cheers, CM-Expat

nothing against "stock build". A machine in my understanding has power source, so it is not a machine in my understanding. But that could be discussed and I might be wrong.

Still Werksmachine would be the machine in the factory or the machine for the factory (belong to the factory) (but the word Werksmaschine doesn't exist in the German Wikipedia or Wiktionary).....It is a useless marketing blabla. Put some English as it sounds fashionable for Germans and put some German for English speaker as it sounds like quality.

Not a big issue but it sounds idiotic.....Call it "All Mountain stock build"

[MaeJoMTB]

You need front suspension for off road.

Just not possible without it.

I have a hybrid, 10Kg no suspension, great for cycling up the road to Doi Suthep, useless off the paved roads, 6,000bht secondhand.

I have a MTB, 13Kg front suspension, useless for cycling up Doi Suthep, too heavy, but great for farm tracks, 16,000bht new.

Neither are any good for downhill, you need full suspension, 50,000bht at least, most of my pals spend 100,000bht

But then, no good for roads or up hills, too heavy (13Kg +), too much effort into pedaling the rear suspension.

Edited June 5, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[h90]

You need front suspension for off road.

Just not possible without it.

I have a hybrid, 10Kg no suspension, great for cycling up the road to Doi Suthep, useless off the paved roads, 6,000bht secondhand.

I have a MTB, 13Kg front suspension, useless for cycling up Doi Suthep, too heavy, but great for farm tracks, 16,000bht new.

Neither are any good for downhill, you need full suspension, 50,000bht at least, most of my pals spend 100,000bht

But then, no good for roads or up hills, too heavy (13Kg +), too much effort into pedaling the rear suspension.

Come on, we did off road without suspension before there were suspensions....It is possible.

3kg makes a difference? My bodyweight fluctuate between 63 and 70 kg and there are plenty of people who have more than 3 kg fat on their belly but can ride up a mountain. (or with 3 kg backpack. On my road bike I have 1.5 liter drinking water and without stop-watch I can't feel any difference riding up a mountain for that 1.5kg)

And we did lots of downhill without suspension on the back side. Your legs and knees are the suspension.

No question better more expensive bikes are better but 95% of what is possible and what not is up to the biker not the bike.

[MaeJoMTB]

You need front suspension for off road.

Just not possible without it.

I have a hybrid, 10Kg no suspension, great for cycling up the road to Doi Suthep, useless off the paved roads, 6,000bht secondhand.

I have a MTB, 13Kg front suspension, useless for cycling up Doi Suthep, too heavy, but great for farm tracks, 16,000bht new.

Neither are any good for downhill, you need full suspension, 50,000bht at least, most of my pals spend 100,000bht

But then, no good for roads or up hills, too heavy (13Kg +), too much effort into pedaling the rear suspension.

Come on, we did off road without suspension before there were suspensions....It is possible.

3kg makes a difference? My bodyweight fluctuate between 63 and 70 kg and there are plenty of people who have more than 3 kg fat on their belly but can ride up a mountain. (or with 3 kg backpack. On my road bike I have 1.5 liter drinking water and without stop-watch I can't feel any difference riding up a mountain for that 1.5kg)

And we did lots of downhill without suspension on the back side. Your legs and knees are the suspension.

No question better more expensive bikes are better but 95% of what is possible and what not is up to the biker not the bike.

First, add two extra 1.5l bottles of water to your backpack, don't use them, just carry them.

Big difference.

You're also pumping the suspension riding up a hill.

Big waste of energy and effort.

Not to mention we're all old now.

Before suspension we were all 30, big difference.

Edited June 5, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[MESmith]

I ride a 29er hardtail. I cycle up Doi Pui, Chiang Mai (lock front forks)(with backpack for 1.5lt water, snacks, spare tube, pump), ride down dirt roads to Huay Tung Tao from summit. Also do 100km+ road rides with off road sections. Seems the best all rounder for me. Most rides are dirt trails & farm tracks with blacktop in between. Would be nice to have a selection of bikes, but I make do with what I have.

And I enjoy my rides

Edited June 5, 2015 by MESmith

[h90]

You need front suspension for off road.

Just not possible without it.

I have a hybrid, 10Kg no suspension, great for cycling up the road to Doi Suthep, useless off the paved roads, 6,000bht secondhand.

I have a MTB, 13Kg front suspension, useless for cycling up Doi Suthep, too heavy, but great for farm tracks, 16,000bht new.

Neither are any good for downhill, you need full suspension, 50,000bht at least, most of my pals spend 100,000bht

But then, no good for roads or up hills, too heavy (13Kg +), too much effort into pedaling the rear suspension.

Come on, we did off road without suspension before there were suspensions....It is possible.

3kg makes a difference? My bodyweight fluctuate between 63 and 70 kg and there are plenty of people who have more than 3 kg fat on their belly but can ride up a mountain. (or with 3 kg backpack. On my road bike I have 1.5 liter drinking water and without stop-watch I can't feel any difference riding up a mountain for that 1.5kg)

And we did lots of downhill without suspension on the back side. Your legs and knees are the suspension.

No question better more expensive bikes are better but 95% of what is possible and what not is up to the biker not the bike.

First, add two extra 1.5l bottles of water to your backpack, don't use them, just carry them.

Big difference.

You're also pumping the suspension riding up a hill.

Big waste of energy and effort.

Not to mention we're all old now.

Before suspension we were all 30, big difference.

3 kg in the backpack, I am sure I'll feel. Because it is in the backpack in a bad position. But else it is just 3-4% extra weight, but it doesn't make it impossible. You may need 3% longer. That doesn't mater outside a competition.

Pumping the suspension riding up is true...that is really waste energy.

Age: yes true....and more spoiled......If the normal mtb would be 20 kg we could still go up the mountain....just slower and we would pay a 100.000 to have 17kg bike.

What really makes a big difference it the nice gears we have now.

[chiangmaiexpat]

You need front suspension for off road.

Just not possible without it.

I have a hybrid, 10Kg no suspension, great for cycling up the road to Doi Suthep, useless off the paved roads, 6,000bht secondhand.

I have a MTB, 13Kg front suspension, useless for cycling up Doi Suthep, too heavy, but great for farm tracks, 16,000bht new.

Neither are any good for downhill, you need full suspension, 50,000bht at least, most of my pals spend 100,000bht

But then, no good for roads or up hills, too heavy (13Kg +), too much effort into pedaling the rear suspension.

You don't need front suspension for offroad riding, cyclocross bikes being the best example, but suspension is really a game changer, because a rigid fork makes steering quite fickle.

13kg bikes are just fine for going up Doi Suthep. My full suspension bike weighs 14kg and I went up to Doi Suthep and even Doi Pui dozens of times. It's not very fast, and when I see other riders passing me on their carbon light weight frame, I think: "Just wait for the downhill...". The suspension is not really an issue uphill, because it can be locked out. What slows things down are the slacker geometry, the beefy tyres, and the weight.

For downhill riding, there are a number of trails on Doi Pui that can be tackled with a hardtail bike. With growing technical skill, this number will grow.

Cheers, CM-Expat