On-arrival Visas: 90 Days And You’re Out!

[Artisan]

You are guest of this country - behave accordingly and you will have no problems at all.

Bush

"Guest", "Guest"? Guests are invited and do not pay. We are not guests; we have chosen to visit Thailand, or to live in Thailand, for which we pay through the nose.

[FarangYaayYaaw]

I am sure that there are many people like me who travel throught the region for work but use Thailand for a home-base. This is now impossible - because there is no visa (that I know of) which will let me enter/exit the country as many times as I need to in a given year. (It's ironic that my problem isn't that I stay too long, it's that I leave too often.) I'm really sad to have to move. I, and people like me, were not abusing the system, we were using it and everyone benefitted. I've spent most of my time in Thailand for more than 30 years and didn't know how attached I'd grown to the country until this came up.

If they wanted to stop illegal workers, all they had to do is require you leave for 4 or more days everytime you leave the country.

As far as comparing immigration laws here to Western countries there are pros and cons. I have a Thai wife, she can live and work legally in the US she can also own property and businesses there, Thailand does not afford me the same priveleges.

[dog412]

by "untying" the work permit from the employer, and enforcing the current laws of hiring foreign employees, this "visa" excuse should not have arisen. the problem is solely with the laws that "attempt" to "indenture" the employee to the "employer.

[Martin]

In all matters, rules and regulations are formulated to try to achieve a desired end (usually after parliamentary debate of ends (desired society) and means (proposed rules and regulations)).

But, after some years, conditions change and/or the rules and regulations are seen to be no longer quite appropriate, so there is a feeling (amongst voters, or officials) that changes should be made.

Whilst doing some university research about Thai wives married to Westerners and now living in the West, I have become aware that there is a growing feeling that the present regulations are letting in a lot of Western de-facto residents as 'bogus tourists', who are men of low (or even negative) 'social capital'.

It could well be that immigration-control officials (possibly prompted by others in the bureaucracy or government) are responding to that growing feeling.

I don't think they would be responding to this prompting, though, unless they were sure that the unhappiness that may be expressed to them about the loss of income to some Thais who have been making money out of pseudo-tourism will be a lesser pressure on them.

The moral would seem to be that, for foreign men as a group, "the way to have been welcome in Thailand would have been for all to get a proper visa before or upon arrival, and for all to behave acceptably after arrival".

This change in regulations could be summarised as: "Those who didn't behave acceptably have spoilt it for some of those who did".

[GezT]

So, a tourist comes here on a long haul flight to Bangkok for 30days. After a few days in Bangkok he decides to take a trip to Ankor Wat using Thailand as his home base. He then takes a trip to Burma for a few days then returns. He then takes a trip to Laos and returns.

He then decides to go to See Singapore of Kuala Lumpur.... On his return to Bangkok he is refused entry as that means a 4th Visa on Arrival. He cannot continue his holiday with a final week in Phuket and has to spend a week in the Airport Lounge waiting to catch his flight home.

As a business man I always used Bangkok as a base for covering the Far East, returning there at weekends and between meetings in different nearby Countries, as do many others becuase it is cheaper and the food is great. We rely on tourist Visas on arrival as we are not doing Business in Thailand. I hope that this is just another crazy idea which similar to others in the past will not be fully implemented.

I am married to a Thai with three children, but currently rely on tourist visas, as I work 70 days in Libya and 17 days vacation in Bangkok. However, there is another twist that I need to make a side trip during my Vacation to Kuala Lumpur to collect my Libyan Visa which is already 2 VOAs in 2 weeks. I had a marriage and Own Company Visa before, but the problem is it takes too many visits to the immigration Bureau before they finally give you the stamp, and I am not here to go to the office. On top of that there is all the hassle of a reentry visa. I hope that we get a clearer picture soon.

[GezT]

So, a tourist comes here on a long haul flight to Bangkok for 30days. After a few days in Bangkok he decides to take a trip to Ankor Wat using Thailand as his home base. He then takes a trip to Burma for a few days then returns. He then takes a trip to Laos and returns.

He then decides to go to See Singapore of Kuala Lumpur.... On his return to Bangkok he is refused entry as that means a 4th Visa on Arrival. He cannot continue his holiday with a final week in Phuket and has to spend a week in the Airport Lounge waiting to catch his flight home.

As a business man I always used Bangkok as a base for covering the Far East, returning there at weekends and between meetings in different nearby Countries, as do many others becuase it is cheaper and the food is great. We rely on tourist Visas on arrival as we are not doing Business in Thailand. I hope that this is just another crazy idea which similar to others in the past will not be fully implemented.

I am married to a Thai with three children, but currently rely on tourist visas, as I work 70 days in Libya and 17 days vacation in Bangkok. However, there is another twist that I need to make a side trip during my Vacation to Kuala Lumpur to collect my Libyan Visa which is already 2 VOAs in 2 weeks. I had a marriage and Own Company Visa before, but the problem is it takes too many visits to the immigration Bureau before they finally give you the stamp, and I am not here to go to the office. On top of that there is all the hassle of a reentry visa. I hope that we get a clearer picture soon.

I'm not an expert by any means, but for the above case scenario couldn't the tourist apply to immigration for a 'Multiple re-entry Permit'?

[dsfbrit]

i am a 49 year old who can get his pension at the age of 50 who works in England and was planning to move to Thailand next August what do i do now?

the lump sum i take from my pension will be used to build a home so i will not be able to stick 800,000 in the bank.HELP

Straight forward? ... Not a chance (and there hasn't been for quite a few years - nothing changed) ... You only have two options for a longstay retirement in Thailand: 1) Show proof of 800,000 baht on your Thai bank account, originated from abroad, at every yearly extension. 2) Get a letter from your embassy stating you get a monthly pension from abroad (don't remember how much, but that monthly income must sort of level with the 800,000 a year)

Rishi, mate - I hate to be negative about this. I am 52 years old and live in Thailand in a house I have built here. I believe unless you have a lot of money it would be unwise to build anything here.

There is a guy who keeps writing in this forum - 'only bring into Thailand money you can afford to lose' and he is corect. Look, it is quite likely after you have built your house and you are happy here - they will raise the amount you need in the bank to - think of a number - 1.5 million baht - then what do you do? My advice is to come here and RENT for a while until you understand the 'game'. Good luck with your retirement.

[Scott]

This is sad for some people but not really unexpected. I think that some people who don't qualify for anything else and aren't working illegally, will have to spend 90 days elsewhere.

I am surprised and that the number of people who thought it could go on forever. Unless you are citizen of a country, you must be quite careful. Everywhere has it's crackdowns and a lot of people are hurt. Countries exist to take care of their own citizens--and some don't even do a good job of that.

[darrenb]

apologies in advance for my ignorance on this subject .. but id appreciate if someone could directly answer my question so that i know how it affects me .

im here with my partner ... we are both english

we have been living in phuket for 14 months and doing the monthly visa run becuase it was easy enough to do and not against the rules

we were planning on going home april next year ... seems it will sooner ?

my question is ..." on arrival visa " is this what i currently have stamped all over my passport ?

my next visa run is sept 20 when they will give me another stamp

does this mean i can do another 3 runs after this which will take me till mid january

or

do i have to go somwhere and apply for a 3 month tourist visa to allow me to stay till next Jan ?

im very confused ... any help would be most appreciative

[vanalli]

I have a lot of friends who have been visa running for some time, and their confusion is whether they have 90 days from October 1st, or whether the 90+ days they have already accumulated will count against them. I'd also like to know this, just out of interest.

I'm glad I went to Penang last month before the chaos ensues. Confusion levels appear to be rather high.

[sinkorswim]

And me what can I do, I'm 65 and I stay here whit my retirement money but it is only 40.000Bath a month. I'm dutch and my country have sign whit Thailand a agrement so the both country's have the right to check if I'm working and for sure I'm not working. And the ampur here in Songhkla know that I stay here, I have not 800.000Bath on a Thai bank and I hop already for years to Malysia. I cant go back to the Netherlands becouse there is nothing and there is no house for me. so what can I doo.

Greetings

billshot64

Hi Bill

If you are married then the 40000baht per month is fine you just have to proove to immigrantion that you recieve this every month from your own country then you can get e extension on the basis of marraige......however you will need to have a non immigrant visa which I am sure you must already have????

If you are not married then that is a different story. You need the 800000 baht or go home get a retirement visa and do 90 day visa runs.

Hope you get this sorted.

Edited September 13, 2006 by sinkorswim

[ServeUncutUncle]

What does this mean for those of us who go to Penang for a triple entry tourist visa twice a year?

The tourist visa is not mentioned in this announcement. Therefore, this announcement means nothing for you.

However, if you are working illegally in Thailand you should nevertheless do whatever is necessary to get legal. The basic policy seems to be the removal of foreigners working illegally in Thailand and if this new rule does not stop them the government may have other ways to do so.

---------------

Maestro

Personally I do not understand the excitement of several members this forum caused by the new tourist visa on arrival regulations.

The typical tourist will come to Thailand most probably twice a year in maximum.

“Tourists” who are seeking other activities than normal tourists normally are looking for, should apply that visa type suiting their activities.

In Europe you have to play by the law, why not here in Thailand?

You are guest of this country - behave accordingly and you will have no problems at all.

By the way, the “new“ rules are just a consequent follow up of the spirit of old rules and visa regulation. Unfortunately the applicants over stretched old conditions too much.

Bush

These kinds of posts are really starting to annoy me. Can you please open your eyes? There are a significant number of people living in Thailand who do not seem to qualify for any of the visa options UNLESS they are going to permit endless tourist visas. What visa would you suggest a 40 year old retired American apply for who is not married to a Thai and does not wish to work or do business in Thailand?

Maybe the same Most retired 40 year olds get for the USA, 90 Days and subsequent Visits can be denied. Seem very similar to what the Thais are proposng.

[sinkorswim]

Solution 1. .. for twits too tight to buy tourist visas .. 90 days Thailand (with 2 border hops) .. go east on bus to Cambodia for 30 days .. continue east on bus to Saigon - Vietnam for 30 days .. jump on bus again and travel north to Laos for 30 days .. travel South to Thailand .. stay 90 days (with 2 border hops) .. repeat process untill dead. Experience new cultures, meet new people, avoid blisters on butt from sitting on Patong/Pattaya/PatPong barstool for too long.

Solution 2 .. Go without one drunken night with bargirl .. use saved money to purchase 2 month tourist visa. Renew tourist visa ad infinitum.

Solution 3 .. Get a job and 1 year working visa.

LMAO.

[cockneyrebel]

i am a 49 year old who can get his pension at the age of 50 who works in England and was planning to move to Thailand next August what do i do now?

the lump sum i take from my pension will be used to build a home so i will not be able to stick 800,000 in the bank.HELP

Straight forward? ... Not a chance (and there hasn't been for quite a few years - nothing changed) ... You only have two options for a longstay retirement in Thailand: 1) Show proof of 800,000 baht on your Thai bank account, originated from abroad, at every yearly extension. 2) Get a letter from your embassy stating you get a monthly pension from abroad (don't remember how much, but that monthly income must sort of level with the 800,000 a year)

Retirement visa 800,000 in bank required but monthly pension if large can work against that amount as can be reduced. I.e. will not need 800'000 in bank I believe.

You could get married then only 400,000 required, also why not rent' then you would probably have the amount required. hope this helps one other question if any onecan answer may be a dumd question ,but what if on your arrival you get your 30 days ,then you go out of the country, say after 3 weeks for a day then you return you gat another 30 days can you keep doing this as not been in country for 90 days?

[jaapfries]

So, a tourist comes here on a long haul flight to Bangkok for 30days. After a few days in Bangkok he decides to take a trip to Ankor Wat using Thailand as his home base. He then takes a trip to Burma for a few days then returns. He then takes a trip to Laos and returns.

He then decides to go to See Singapore of Kuala Lumpur.... On his return to Bangkok he is refused entry as that means a 4th Visa on Arrival. He cannot continue his holiday with a final week in Phuket and has to spend a week in the Airport Lounge waiting to catch his flight home.

As a business man I always used Bangkok as a base for covering the Far East, returning there at weekends and between meetings in different nearby Countries, as do many others becuase it is cheaper and the food is great. We rely on tourist Visas on arrival as we are not doing Business in Thailand. I hope that this is just another crazy idea which similar to others in the past will not be fully implemented.

I am married to a Thai with three children, but currently rely on tourist visas, as I work 70 days in Libya and 17 days vacation in Bangkok. However, there is another twist that I need to make a side trip during my Vacation to Kuala Lumpur to collect my Libyan Visa which is already 2 VOAs in 2 weeks. I had a marriage and Own Company Visa before, but the problem is thye take too many visits to the immigration Bureau before they finally give you the stamp, and I am not here to go to the office. On top of that there is all the hassle of a reentry visa. I hope that we get a clearer picture soon.

One of the few visa types not mentioned in all of this is the Transit Visa, which might provide you with a methodolgy, though I'm not sure at first glance if it's workable given the strictures you list. Ironically it can provide up to 30 days cover, but it is a single pass through visa defined by entry and exit criteria.

Welcome to lateral thinking vortex

Link

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/12.php

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's some "lateral-Thinking" to stick into your "Vortex" and smoke it . . . . . .

How about you "lose" your passport; then obtain a new one and between these two (2) passports you now have, you can 'flip-flop' the 90 day cycles ? ?

Just kidding, but it should work a charm, huh ?!?

Lateral Thinking !

[Big Dogster]

you don't get zeroed out on Oct 1, acc. to sunbelt asia, your entries before that date count!

[jdinasia]

apologies in advance for my ignorance on this subject .. but id appreciate if someone could directly answer my question so that i know how it affects me .

im here with my partner ... we are both english

we have been living in phuket for 14 months and doing the monthly visa run becuase it was easy enough to do and not against the rules

we were planning on going home april next year ... seems it will sooner ?

my question is ..." on arrival visa " is this what i currently have stamped all over my passport ?

my next visa run is sept 20 when they will give me another stamp

does this mean i can do another 3 runs after this which will take me till mid january

or

do i have to go somwhere and apply for a 3 month tourist visa to allow me to stay till next Jan ?

im very confused ... any help would be most appreciative

Looks like you'd need to go to Panang or KL or somewhere and apply for a double tourist visa ... that will cover 60 days X 2 <plus extensions if you want>

[WormFarmer]

Here's some "lateral-Thinking" to stick into your "Vortex" and smoke it . . . . . .

How about you "lose" your passport; then obtain a new one and between these two (2) passports you now have, you can 'flip-flop' the 90 day cycles ? ?

Just kidding, but it should work a charm, huh ?!?

AFAIK most European Countries, including UK, are quite prepared, under certain circumstances, to issue someone with two (maybe three) legit passports. This started many years ago when certain Countries refused entry to visitors if their passports contained stamps from other Countries eg. Israel/Iraq or S. Africa/Tanzania. The European governments took the view that these conflicts were not of their making and should not hinder their nationals in doing business, so if a person could put up a case that he may have a need to travel to any two such Countries, then they would happily solve his problem by issuing a second valid passport. Once obtained each passport can be re-newed as normal provided you declare on the renewal application, in the space provided in the case of a UK passport application, the number of your other passport. Sooooo - a route worth investigating ~ with two passports you could alternate every 90 days.

[Baan Kiki]

These kinds of posts are really starting to annoy me. Can you please open your eyes? There are a significant number of people living in Thailand who do not seem to qualify for any of the visa options UNLESS they are going to permit endless tourist visas. What visa would you suggest a 40 year old retired American apply for who is not married to a Thai and does not wish to work or do business in Thailand?

Well you seem to think those that are initiating these new visa rules care about the plight of those that dont fall in the categories you describe.

If you know someone who cares, please let us all know. He/she should be v busy.

Jim

[coldcrush]

Can someone recomend a good visa for me to apply for, I am not here working or anything basically just hanging out with my girlfriend enjoying my time. What is the best way now to stay in this country????

Get a job?

That why they are doing the 3 stamps and out dimwit to stop people working illegally. Unless he gets a work permit its no go. Do you work for Social Security anyways, telling pople get a job, maybe he a is a rich son of an Arab or even a lottery winner?

[samiotis]

To make bad things worst; i just hung up the phone with Mr. Haji Tajudeen from N&K Enterprises in Penang. (He runs one of the book stores in Chulia Street from where we usualy get our visas done)

Mr. Tajudeen informed me that only ONE ENTRY 2 Month Tourist visas with an option on 30 days extention are issued from the Thai embassy in Penang from now on!

He couldn't tell me though if the there will be a second visa issued after the first one has run out. Considering that we are still tourists and have been in the country for 90 days already, there is a good chance that this question will be answered with a strikt NO in the near future.

That would mean that by January first, a lot of people will have to leave Thailand. That also means that all relatives and friends of those who will not be here over the next high season, will most likely also not come to Thailand. If one has not juast studied the birds outside the window while having a math-class; how could he/she say that this would have no impact on the revenue off the tourist industry? Does a million visitors up or down does have so little impact?

Sure it want have much impact to the people who are making those laws and rules. But what about smaller and medium buisnesses who depend very much and especially in low-season on the long stayers in this beautiful country?

Staying in Koh Tao, one of the top spots, worldwide, for scuba diving lessons, i have to ask myself, if the quality of PADI diving courses can be kept up by ever changing freelance diving instructors. It want make a difference at all on how many farang stay in Thailand and work in the dive industry and help building it up. The needs have to be and will be covered one way or the other. Just the faces will change every three month. Or is there anybody out there who thinks that all 48 dive centers in Koh Tao are going to close every 3 month for three month?

It is a simple fact that there is no way for dive centers to get more than 2 working visas for farang instructors or dive masters. Anything more than that and the taxes would start to chew them up. It's another fact that one instructor and one divemaster want cover the needs of a dive resort and there is by far not enough thai instructors and divemasters to fill the gap what is opening here.

I'm not saying it should be allowed to stay and work illigaly here in Thailand, no way, but i think it would be a great idea to not only make new rules but also rules they work for the majority of the people and have something to do with real life.

So far most of the people on the island are very confused. Thai and Farang! It's a 'no future' situation and thousends of long year friendships will break up. I wonder who thinks that who can benefit from this situation?

[lekatai]

Here's some "lateral-Thinking" to stick into your "Vortex" and smoke it . . . . . .

How about you "lose" your passport; then obtain a new one and between these two (2) passports you now have, you can 'flip-flop' the 90 day cycles ? ?

Just kidding, but it should work a charm, huh ?!?

AFAIK most European Countries, including UK, are quite prepared, under certain circumstances, to issue someone with two (maybe three) legit passports. This started many years ago when certain Countries refused entry to visitors if their passports contained stamps from other Countries eg. Israel/Iraq or S. Africa/Tanzania. The European governments took the view that these conflicts were not of their making and should not hinder their nationals in doing business, so if a person could put up a case that he may have a need to travel to any two such Countries, then they would happily solve his problem by issuing a second valid passport. Once obtained each passport can be re-newed as normal provided you declare on the renewal application, in the space provided in the case of a UK passport application, the number of your other passport. Sooooo - a route worth investigating ~ with two passports you could alternate every 90 days.

It is possible to get two UK passports,for exactly the reasons outlined above,but for obvious reasons,it is not easy to do it,you must show good cause,and back it up with some evidence of why you need two passports.I did have two,because I made frequent trips to Bosnia,and my original passport hed many visas for Serbia in it.That would have caused major problems at the borders,so I was issued with a second passport,but I had to provide documentation to prove it was necessary,and the passport agency checked to make sure the information was correct.I very much doubt that the avoidance of Thai immigration rules would be viewed as sufficient reason to hold two passports.The second thing to consider is that all passports are scanned,and I presume the details are fed into a computer,which might very well show that you held two passports.I would not like to be standing at the border trying to explain why I was flouting immigration laws to the Thai police.The only way I can see it might work,and this won't apply to many people,is if you held dual nationality,and hence passports from two different countries.

As for the suggestion that you "lose" your passport and obtain a second one by deception,I cannot even begin to imagine how many laws you would be breaking,and don't forget if you do report a passport lost or stolen,it is cancelled on the UK computer system,and when scanned,immediately shows up as stolen/lost.I don't know if the list of lost/stolen passports is handed to other countries, but given the current world situation,I should think it is quite likely.NOT a good idea

[phuketdiver]

To make bad things worst; i just hung up the phone with Mr. Haji Tajudeen from N&K Enterprises in Penang. (He runs one of the book stores in Chulia Street from where we usualy get our visas done)

Mr. Tajudeen informed me that only ONE ENTRY 2 Month Tourist visas with an option on 30 days extention are issued from the Thai embassy in Penang from now on!

He couldn't tell me though if the there will be a second visa issued after the first one has run out. Considering that we are still tourists and have been in the country for 90 days already, there is a good chance that this question will be answered with a strikt NO in the near future.

That would mean that by January first, a lot of people will have to leave Thailand. That also means that all relatives and friends of those who will not be here over the next high season, will most likely also not come to Thailand. If one has not juast studied the birds outside the window while having a math-class; how could he/she say that this would have no impact on the revenue off the tourist industry? Does a million visitors up or down does have so little impact?

Sure it want have much impact to the people who are making those laws and rules. But what about smaller and medium buisnesses who depend very much and especially in low-season on the long stayers in this beautiful country?

Staying in Koh Tao, one of the top spots, worldwide, for scuba diving lessons, i have to ask myself, if the quality of PADI diving courses can be kept up by ever changing freelance diving instructors. It want make a difference at all on how many farang stay in Thailand and work in the dive industry and help building it up. The needs have to be and will be covered one way or the other. Just the faces will change every three month. Or is there anybody out there who thinks that all 48 dive centers in Koh Tao are going to close every 3 month for three month?

It is a simple fact that there is no way for dive centers to get more than 2 working visas for farang instructors or dive masters. Anything more than that and the taxes would start to chew them up. It's another fact that one instructor and one divemaster want cover the needs of a dive resort and there is by far not enough thai instructors and divemasters to fill the gap what is opening here.

I'm not saying it should be allowed to stay and work illigaly here in Thailand, no way, but i think it would be a great idea to not only make new rules but also rules they work for the majority of the people and have something to do with real life.

So far most of the people on the island are very confused. Thai and Farang! It's a 'no future' situation and thousends of long year friendships will break up. I wonder who thinks that who can benefit from this situation?

Koh Tao is the top spot for scuba diving lessons in the world - more people get their licence there than anywhere else in the world. One school started 93 open water ( first course) on a single day last month....... guess what - numbers dont mean anything - there are places around the world that when they see koh Tao on a licence require people to do a retrain before diving.

A few years ago there was a mass panick when passports were taken by police on a raid on a single Thai individual doing visa runs on behalf of people living on Koh Tao, another was arrested for doing the same in Koh Samui. The result - a lot of new passports, so many that some embassies ran out. This was the start of the clamp down.

Then they started looking at the number of people in the diving industry WORKING and doing 30 day runs.

Guess what - 3 months later there were a number of small companies started up by the instructors / divemasters that allowed them to work LEGALLY. ( most of the fault of this can also be laid at the feet of the dive centre owners)

When someone wishes to leave they sell their shares in the company to another instructor arriving.

The quality of instruction went up as people began to view working as an instructor as a job, rather than a past time (it was costing them money)

If you want to see what can happen when people decide to ignore the laws of a country for both employment and visas see the new regulations that came into effect (propabaly) as of 1st September in the diving industry - and Phuket is the trial centre, the rest of the country follows

I have heard from a number of people who insist as they have been here for a number of years they have a RIGHT to stay. The only place you have a right to stay is our country of birth, or in some situations you can have rights in countries of your parents.

Get real and get legal - we love the life style we have here - why not pay a little more and enjoy it legally - it is still a ###### sight cheaper than back in the west

They say if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen - if you cant stand the visa requirements GET OUT OF THE COUNTRY

[Thaiquila]

Yes, there are no doubt going to be thousands of decent people's lives really hurt by these changes. Lots of people who have nothing to go back to in their home country. There will no doubt be some deaths and suicides that can be directly linked to these changes. Any freelance journalists out there? This would make a good story for the international press. (Not sure what kind of visa you would use though.)

Was this change partly done for international FACE in the wake of the John Karr incident? Face has many aspects, eh?

I really like the phrase another poster cited: like shooting mosquitos with cannons.

Edited September 13, 2006 by Thaiquila

[smartecosse]

Guess what - 3 months later there were a number of small companies started up by the instructors / divemasters that allowed them to work LEGALLY. ( most of the fault of this can also be laid at the feet of the dive centre owners)

......................Get real and get legal - we love the life style we have here - why not pay a little more and enjoy it legally - it is still a ###### sight cheaper than back in the west

They say if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen - if you cant stand the visa requirements GET OUT OF THE COUNTRY

So where does that leave the ones of us that are here working legally but whose spouse/partner does not work (housewife etc) and who has to do "visa runs" ?????????

[mark lamai]

to the self-satisfied nongs in here.

its not finished yet.

more new regulations to be released soon.

gee, hope it don't affect you.

you have seen the 3 mill invest visa is gone? up to 10 mill. goodbye condo market.

hmmm, what's next?

20 mill retirement?

work permit only for above 100k a month? goodbye all foreign teachers.

i can't believe that ANYONE could feel secure in this insane environment.

[blam]

This is long, I apologise. I am not a poster, but read it all the time. Here goes:

I am one of the people they are trying to catch, or actually, to try to make legal. Thing with me is, I bought a house in BC, Canada 30 years ago, I rent it out, it gives me an income. I am too old to do much of anything anymore, and I don't have much cash laying around. There are lots of us in Thailand.

I live in Phuket and make visa runs every month, have been here 20 years. The situation has not always been like this, but, circumstances rule here. I have dumped approximately 50 million (new and old) Baht into the country via GF's, businesses, land and home holdings, etc. Immigration is a pain, whether I've had an 'O','B", or Tourist, a work permit or not; immigration has always been a pain. The Thais try to inflate their self worth by creating some garbage visa rulings. In the end, good old corruption wins out every time. For the last 2 or 3 years it's just been easier to make the monthly runs.

A few observations lately:

=There are lots of farangs living here in Phuket. MOST of them are Northen Europe, many from India & Bangladesh; and from what I gather, a high percentage of these people are living off their Mummy & Daddy's money, no matter what BS story they are choosing to use this month. These are the guys are so amazingly self righteous that they can tell other peope to 'get a job', or 'you are a guest in this country, or 'follow the rules' crapola.

=There have been some major busts lately. Russians in Samui, Swedes in Phuket, Germans in Chiang Rai. They were living large, had hung themselves out for all to see, and in the end got caught. Drugs, money laundering, drug-bust runaways, etc. The Thais credited themselves for the hard work to catch these guys, but in the end the criminals were just plain stupid. Normal people here in Thailand living a clean simple life on a low income are the ones that will be caught up in the tsunami aftermath. We do not leech anything from Thai society, we give, and we give lots.

=The Burmese immigration departments have upgraded all of their standards, they take pictures and do computer entry for each and every individual. This makes the Thais look like lazy dunderheads. It's still backwards and funny, but Myanmar is making an effort. The Thai system in Ranong has always looked like a bad black & white movie from the 1950's, everybody looks like a crook, and it's a joke the way they do their jobs. Well, it's going to get a lot worse.

=The elections are right around the corner. Farangs all know that the votes are bought and paid for. We also make a ton of noise when it looks like the election process is as filthy and stinky as a Bangkok sewer. So, election time is always a time of crackdowns on long term tourists. Why? Easy answer, they gotta fire a few rounds over our heads to keep us down.

...

The new visa rulings really shook me, man I took the news hard... for about 3 minutes. You have to look at the money, here in Thailand ALWAYS FOLLOW THE MONEY. The new airport exit fees are going to be 1000 Baht, (they wanted it to be 2000B) and guess what? If you want to play the visa game now, you will have to fly somewhere, KL, Singapore... somewhere. They are raising the rates for standard tourist visas again too, the rates for multiple entries as well, Air Asia is raising its rates etc, etc, on and on ad nauseum.

It's a matter of watching and waiting. Go somewhere and get a real tourist visa just to buy yourself some time. Be assured that Thai Rak Thai will be re-elected. Watch the price of oil and consumer goods go sky high. Watch the big foreign corporations all move to Malaysia. Just keep quiet for now, and for heaven's sake, lay low. Do not bring any major investment money into this county for a while. From experience, things will get better when it all calms down. Again.

Sorry this was so long.

'Old and in the way' in Phuket.

[joker]

Well, I can see that alot of Visa-run companies are going to loose alot on this.

Either way, I wish people here would compare Thailand with the surrounding

countries and not keep bringing in......in the UK, or in the USA etc. The comparrisons

are not the same believe me.

The problem with Thailand is that it is always too lax with it's laws and incoherent, as

we all know, Immigration in Phuket doesn't follow the exact guidlines as in Bangkok and

Pattaya, Chiang Mai etc all have their own interpretations. No wonder the confusion.

To get clarification from any is also a joke. Either you get a 'we don't know' line or

'that's how we do it here' line.

Funny, for the last 5 years or so there have been yearly changes to either Visas, W.P's

or earning fees and Bachelor Degrees etc. Still it all hasn't worked has it?

Also, it seems again 'double standards' when it comes to actually enforcing the laws.

They round up 'sometimes' Russian prostitutes on Walking Street in Pattaya, for prostitution or 'working' without a W.P. YET DAILY at certain venues, they can be seen dancing to attract customers inside.

I am sure all those girls have W.P's, don't they???????? Doing something the Thais cannot do??????

That is just one example of the hypoctical manner of using the law.

And if we look at all the Thai laws that are NOT enforced, especially for the Thais, I wonder why

it's always the 'Falang' that seem to get singled out.

[chuckygobyebye]

Yes, there are no doubt going to be thousands of decent people's lives really hurt by these changes. Lots of people who have nothing to go back to in their home country. There will no doubt be some deaths and suicides that can be directly linked to these changes. Any freelance journalists out there? This would make a good story for the international press. (Not sure what kind of visa you would use though.)

Was this change partly done for international FACE in the wake of the John Karr incident? Face has many aspects, eh?

I really like the phrase another poster cited: like shooting mosquitos with cannons.

Freelance journalists typically use the 30 day visas to stay as, technically speaking, it's illegal for them to work here*. Traditionally Bangkok has been the base for freelance writers, photographers and stringers as it's cheap to live close to places where the news happens and is easy to enter and exit.

The situation with visa runners is one that Thai Immigration has allowed to develop, they've been aware of the phenomena for what 10, 20 years? If they really want people to stop working illegally they need to make it easier to work legally. I've just gone through the process of setting up a company (it's a real venture, with investment and employees) and getting a work permit and have found it an extremely lengthy and expensive operation. After getting the WP I find that I won't qualify for the extension of stay so I'm stuck doing visa runs every three months anyway**.

One of the biggest problems with hiring foreign staff are the ratio of four Thais to each foreigner. The law does allow for exemptions in special cases but the lazy-assed officials only ever apply this to schools. English-language publishers, scuba operators and entertainment companies should get an exemption but never do.

Most people on visa runs would prefer to be legal but the system seems to be set up for retirees and oil company execs***

Finally, with regard to the John Karr incident, he was a qualified teacher and street _legal_. None of these changes would have kept him out of Thailand.

* In order to get a media visa you need to be sponsored by a foreign publication and are, therefore, no longer freelance.

** Just can't seem to find a consulate that will give me a 12-month multi entry 'B'. Would still need to exit every three months anyway, which is ridiculous.

*** IIRC the original act was written to allow oil companies to operate here, which would explain why it's such a cumbersome process.

[ludosiam]

There are a significant number of people living in Thailand who do not seem to qualify for any of the visa options UNLESS they are going to permit endless tourist visas. What visa would you suggest a 40 year old retired American apply for who is not married to a Thai and does not wish to work or do business in Thailand?

If a 40-year old American is truly in position to spend the rest of his/her life in a foreign country as a true retiree - he/she must have sufficient money for those investment related visas still avaiable ... The "cheapest" (in terms of how much must be put on the table) would be to form a company, which employs you as some kind of director for a salary sufficient to get you one-year extension of you permitted-to-stay-stamps. Of course, you'll have to pay tax of that (maybe only on paper) income --- but why not, if you like this country enough to want to stay here for good? ... Well, I gues the company also needs to do some sort of business to remain an acceptable entity - but if you're only 40 years old - no symphaty from here if you feel too old to trying comply with that ...

If applying common sense a 40 year old american who does have enough money (income) to live in LOS should be able to stay here as long as he wishes if funds can be proofed. Forming a company just to stay here is expensive (I have done that, but with the purpose of working and make a living, costs around 12.000 THB / month)

At the end I believe all the fuzz is about paying tax which I think is standard requirement in most countries, if you're choose to live here you should also pay tax here. Ask if you can declare your income here and get it taxed, I don't see where the problem is.