UK spouse visa, how to leave thailand together?

[just an idea]

I've been living and working in Thailand about 5 years and have been married about a year and a half. My wife holds a reasonable job here but she would like to go live in the UK having enjoyed her travels there last year. To make this more confusing she is pregnant and will give birth in October so we will be looking at moving in December at the earliest.

The difficulty lies in how to get a Visa that means we can travel to the UK togther as I don't really want to go there first and wait for her to get a visa. I understand she can apply 'to join family living permanently in the uk' (https://www.gov.uk/join-family-in-uk), but it doesnt refer to a visa 'to stay with family who wil be living permanently in the uk'.

I read in the sticky post about visas that it's still possible... now the real trouble are the finacial requirements. I plan to get a job in the UK before I leave here, so I will have a contract for a job but obviously no pay slips as I wont of started yet. I have a job in thailand, but it doesn't pay enough to reach the 18,600GBP requirement. However if we combine my wifes salery with mine it does pay enough..... but does this count?

So for evidence for the finacial requirements, can I give my current payslips and contract + my wifes payslips and contract, which equals over 18,600GBP + the contract for my job to be in the UK which will pay over 18,600GBP?

Thankyou

Adam

[theoldgit]

Unfortunately your wife's salary in Thailand cannot be combined with yours to meet the financial requirements.

The full details of how you can meet the requirements are outlined in the attached document, specifically section 5.

The rules are pretty complex so difficult to explain in a reply, but I don't think you will be able to do as you plan.

Financial_Requirement_Guidance_20140324 (1).pdf

[just an idea]

Well thats very disappointing, I had read through a similar document last night and thought I had read that it is possible however on reading the doc you attached and rereading the one I had read; you're right my plan wont work. I just can't see how it's fair to not include my wifes salery if it's outside of the UK if she can't work in the UK without the visa.

There's no way I can afford to save the money required to offset the salary requirements on my wage in Thailand, hence why we want to move to the UK. The system just seems impossible to get round. What other alternatives have I got?

[theoldgit]

Your wife could try and stay in the UK on a visit visa whilst you meet the financial requirements.

However that route isn't straightforward, she would need to satisfy the Entry Clearance Officer that she is a genuine visitor who would return to Thailand at the end of her holiday.

Unfortunately people like you guys are caught up in the one size fits all approach to settlement, there really isn't a visa that applies to people in you position.

[just an idea]

Thats a shame, but thankyou for your help simplifying that for us. My wife has had a visitor visa before and if we get her a return flight then hopefully that'll be enough for her to get the visitor visa.... but she wont have a job to return to.

I suspect with the torries fully in power the rules will only get worse before they get better, regardless I feel compled to write and complain... I assume Philip Hammond the foriegn secretary is the chap to direct my feedback to.

[JB300]

Sorry to add to your problems, but I'm sure you'll have read that the requirement will be £22,400 once your child is born...

Unfortunately (& unfairly) the only solution would be for you to go ahead of the family & build up the relevant financial requirements or look to move somewhere else in EU as a "Stepping Stone"...

[just an idea]

We're looking at getting a british passport for the child, although I have to admit I haven't yet looked into the difficults that entails. If the child can be considered a UK citizen then I belive our finacial requiremnt stays at 18,600. At least I hope it does.

I've emailed Philip Hammond with my concerns... so we should expect a change to the rules any day now.

[theoldgit]

Sorry to add to your problems, but I'm sure you'll have read that the requirement will be £22,400 once your child is born...

That's not correct, your child will be a British Citizen, providing you were born in the UK, and is thus excluded from higher financial requirement for accompanying children.

[just an idea]

I was born in the UK, but the child will be born in Thailand. I'll have to look into this more beofre I start asking questions regarding my childs passport... I don't want to waste your time asking question I should be able to find out for myself. I'll no doubt come back with specific issues at some point though.

[theoldgit]

If you're a full citizen, ie not claiming your nationality from some distant relative, then your child can claim UK Citizenship, and that all important passport.

[just an idea]

ok, thats good to know. So now the finacial requirement is only just out of reach as opposed to way off.

I'm interested in the idea of moving somewhere else in the UK as a 'stepping stone', how would that work? I'm assuming we both get (work) visas for say France, stay there for some time until my wife counts as an EU citizen then move to the UK.... is that the general idea?

Do you where I can find the requirements of getting in this way?

Edited June 8, 2015 by just an idea

[JB300]

Apologies, I only looked at this briefly with a mate of mine who was looking into bringing his Thai Wife & Step-Kid to the UK & recalled the requirement was £22,400 for them, glad to be told I'm wrong in this instance...

There are a couple of guys on here who have/are planning to go down the Europe first route, here's a recent thread that might be of interest http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/829052-Advice-on-moving-to-UK-with-Thai-wife-and-step-daughter%2C-Europe-first%3F

Good Luck

Edited June 8, 2015 by JB300

[DDuval]

Hi OP

If it helps any I returned to the UK in similar situation to yourself. Already been here a year, got new house, new car, new job etc. Its not nice being apart from my Thai partner of 6 years but needs must.
I will apply for the first visa during the next few months after I have got 6 pay slips and my bank accounts are nice and clean.

Forgot to add got me newborn Uk passport without any issues in June of this year in Bangkok

thx

Edited June 8, 2015 by DDuval

[anterian]

Early this year my son had similar problems moving his Filipino wife to England, problem solved by I and my wife becoming guarantors.

[just an idea]

Early this year my son had similar problems moving his Filipino wife to England, problem solved by I and my wife becoming guarantors.

I thought this wasn't possible anymore? It says they wont execpt promises of finaicial support incase situations change (or something to that affect).... it would be great if i misread this as my parents would deffinately help. My dear old mum would do anything to get me back to england.

[theoldgit]

No it's not, and it never has been, as such, for those seeking settlement.

Previously a third party could offer financial support, but that is not now possible.

[a99az]

Have sent you a message on how to return to the UK for free and with out having to show income with your wife.

[a99az]

Hi

Having seen so many posts from who have taken the people who are rather unable to find the income or simply don't want to live apart for years before they can live with there partner I post this.

I have made the move to the UK with my wife and two girls. I did this via Spain. It was very easy cost nothing and was all done in just over 12 weeks. So let me fill you in on the facts.

1) If you are married or with a partner your wife / partner can apply for a FREE visa to any EU country you fly together. We went to Spain.

2) once in the EU your wife/ partner needs to apply for a resident card free or just admin charge of a few euros you will need one too. You also need to be there working or in full time education. ( I became self employed and paid min wage tax and did nothing for 12 weeks) They must provide her with residents card within 90 days under EU law or have a very good reason why not.

3) Then once she has her Card you can apply for a family permit from British Embassy and this must be provided within 14days again free of charge.

4) Then just go to the UK. Once there get your wife a NI number then apply for her British residents card. That is all she will ever need after five years she can simply renew it. Nothing else to do unless she wants Brit citizen ship then she needs to do the English knowledge but she does not have to do it.

NOTE

It is best if you have marriage cert that is certified by Thai foreign office dated within last few weeks before you leave and a copy of this and marriage cert in the language of the country you intend to go to and English.

When you get to the UK you are best off getting both of you settled in fast and join get everything you can so you can show this to the bodes that need it that you both are Habitually Resident in the UK. Doctors Bank Dentist Library club

Like I said it's fairly straight forward many go to southern Ireland as it's near to the UK and same language also easy to pop to the UK if you need to but YOU must be able to work or be in full time study.

GOOD LUCK

[a99az]

Sorry to add to your problems, but I'm sure you'll have read that the requirement will be £22,400 once your child is born...

Unfortunately (& unfairly) the only solution would be for you to go ahead of the family & build up the relevant financial requirements or look to move somewhere else in EU as a "Stepping Stone"...

Instead of adding to peoples problems with wild guess work why not provide solutions or positive advice and feed back. There is an easy fast and free way for any EU expat to return to the EU with his family and they could leave with in 14 days.

[just an idea]

The thing that confuses me about the EU root is how to decide what counrty to go to.... So you get a visa to travel to any EU country, but cleary the UK isn't included in this list; so what other EU countries can't be travelled to using this 'Free travel to any EU country Visa'? any whats this visa officially called and where do i go to get one?

thanyou a99az for that well explained alternative solution, but also thankyou to those helping me narrow down my options and helping me to work through the minefield of requirements... including JB300

[JB300]

Sorry to add to your problems, but I'm sure you'll have read that the requirement will be £22,400 once your child is born...

Unfortunately (& unfairly) the only solution would be for you to go ahead of the family & build up the relevant financial requirements or look to move somewhere else in EU as a "Stepping Stone"...

Instead of adding to peoples problems with wild guess work why not provide solutions or positive advice and feed back. There is an easy fast and free way for any EU expat to return to the EU with his family and they could leave with in 14 days.

Instead of frothing at the mouth & jumping to the end of the thread, try reading the posts that followed, including this one...

Apologies, I only looked at this briefly with a mate of mine who was looking into bringing his Thai Wife & Step-Kid to the UK & recalled the requirement was £22,400 for them, glad to be told I'm wrong in this instance...

There are a couple of guys on here who have/are planning to go down the Europe first route, here's a recent thread that might be of interest http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/829052-Advice-on-moving-to-UK-with-Thai-wife-and-step-daughter%2C-Europe-first%3F

Good Luck

[7by7]

Just an idea,

The EEA freedom of movement regulations apply to all member states of the European Economic Area. (All EU members are also members of the EEA, but not all EEA members are also members of the EU.)

Each member state has it's own procedure for applying for the necessary visas and/or permits, so if you do decide to follow this route you should first decide where you will be moving to and then contact the embassy concerned. But whichever country you choose, all visas, residence permits etc. should be free.

Normally, the regulations cannot be used, though, when the non EEA national family member wants to enter and/or live in the state of which the EEA national is a citizen.

However, a ruling in the European Court in the case of Surinder Singh v the UK changed this so that if the, in your case British, citizen has been living and working in another EEA state and their, in your case Thai, family member has been living there with them, then they can move back to the UK together using the EEA regulations.

Which means that the usual settlement visa requirements, including the financial one, wont apply and all visas and residency permits will be free.

A judgement last year, O & B v The Netherlands, changed things a bit, so the advice given by a99az is now a bit out of date; see the topic linked to by JB300 and this post in another topic for more.

You will see that, among other changes, now you and your wife will need to have lived together in the other EEA state for at least three months before she can apply to live in the UK using the Surinder Singh ruling.

Note also that despite what it says in that ruling, the UK will still, at present, insist that you, the British partner, have been working, employed or self employed, in the other EEA state.

If you decide for whatever reason that this, commonly called the Surinder Singh route, is not suitable for you and your family and instead decide to go down the UK immigration rules route, then I'm afraid that unless you have at least £62,500 in the bank that you will need to move to the UK by yourself and work for at least 6 months with an income of at least £18,600 p.a. before your wife could apply for a settlement visa.

Though, as theoldgit said above, she may be able to get a visit visa so she could spend that 6 months with you. But she would still have to return to Thailand and apply for settlement there.

Whether your child remains with you in the UK or returns to Thailand with your wife is a decision for you and your wife.

Edited June 8, 2015 by 7by7

[just an idea]

excellent reply 7by7, thankyou for putting so much time into helping my problem. From all the advice given I've been able to do further research and now see a couple of possibilities.

The first one is that as my salary in Thailand is around the equivalent of 15,000 pounds a year that means the savings I need is an astronomical 25,000pounds... unbelievable that the government thinks someone on a 15,000 salary could of somehow saved that amount. However a close family member has just been made redundant from a long term job and has had a hefty pay out... keeping that in my UK account or possibly an ISA for 6 month could solve my problems... but it's a lot to ask of my family and maybe more than I'm willing to do.

The next option is going to France first, I like this option but it feels a bit dodgy even if it isn't and would need a lot of research. My Aunty has a holiday cottage there so I could possible stay there and start a business doing nothing for 3 months... or maybe find a seasonal job at ski resort or a outdoor education center. Any ideas if working a fixed 4 month seasonal contract would count or not as it's obvious I wouldn't be there permanently?

My final option will be the 6 month tourist visa with a solo return to thailand... but that's my last resort.

Thanks for the help so far.

[tebee]

It does seem strange that the only way an expat who has been working in a Non-EU country can return to the UK with their wife and not have to be separated from them for 6 months is to have savings of £62,500 in the bank - did the UK government not think of this possibility when drafting the regulations ?

[just an idea]

it seems absolutely ridiculous to me. They seem to be encouraging the kind of marriage where the husband visits his wife once a year on his holiday to Pattaya and then decides to bring her back to the UK because he can't afford the air ticket.... yet for those who are together in Thailand live together and want to genuinely stay together get rejected. I'm not saying a disapprove of the first situation, but the chance of that couple staying together must be much lower.

I've been trying not to let this turn into a political rant but it is really winding me up.

[robertthebruce]

France I would body's verve as there is high unemployment and the wages are poor.

Germany ?? Might be a better option...

[7by7]

<snip>

as my salary in Thailand is around the equivalent of 15,000 pounds a year that means the savings I need is an astronomical 25,000pounds... unbelievable that the government thinks someone on a 15,000 salary could of somehow saved that amount. However a close family member has just been made redundant from a long term job and has had a hefty pay out... keeping that in my UK account or possibly an ISA for 6 month could solve my problems... but it's a lot to ask of my family and maybe more than I'm willing to do.

Remember that if you do this, then not only must the money be in your complete possession and control for at least 6 months prior to your wife applying, it must also be a gift, not a loan.

Remember, too, that if using cash savings to reduce the level of income required then you will still need to have a confirmed offer of employment in the UK with a salary at the appropriate level.

Also, income from self employment cannot be combined with cash savings; for reasons no sane person can understand!.

Of course, if your relative is prepared to give you the full £62,500 you will be able to meet the requirement via cash savings alone.

For more details, see Appendix FM Section 1.7 Financial Requirement.

The financial requirement as it stands is an ill thought out, illogical piece of legislation. For example, what does it matter whether or not you were working in Thailand before moving to the UK, and if you were what your salary was, as long as you have a job once you are in the UK with an income sufficient to support you and your family without the use of public funds?

You may be interested in the report of the Parliamentary inquiry into new family migration rules; to which several members here submitted evidence at the time.

Key findings

1. Some British citizens and permanent residents in the UK, including people in full-time employment, have been separated from a non-EEA partner and in some cases their children as a result of the income requirement

2. Some British citizens and permanent residents have been prevented from returning to the UK with their non-EEA partner and any children as a result of the income requirement

3. Some children, including British children, have been indefinitely separated from a nonEEA parent as a result of the income requirement

4. The current permitted sources in order to meet the income requirement may not fully reflect the resources available to some families

5. The adult dependent relative visa category appears in effect to have been closed

Edited June 9, 2015 by 7by7

[just an idea]

How do you prove the money is a gift and not a loan? Because it absolutley will be a loan, but how will they know.

The full loan of 62,500quid is well beyond what I could borrow.

[DDuval]

<snip>

as my salary in Thailand is around the equivalent of 15,000 pounds a year that means the savings I need is an astronomical 25,000pounds... unbelievable that the government thinks someone on a 15,000 salary could of somehow saved that amount. However a close family member has just been made redundant from a long term job and has had a hefty pay out... keeping that in my UK account or possibly an ISA for 6 month could solve my problems... but it's a lot to ask of my family and maybe more than I'm willing to do.

Remember that if you do this, then not only must the money be in your complete possession and control for at least 6 months prior to your wife applying, it must also be a gift, not a loan.

Remember, too, that if using cash savings to reduce the level of income required then you will still need to have a confirmed offer of employment in the UK with a salary at the appropriate level.

Also, income from self employment cannot be combined with cash savings; for reasons no sane person can understand!.

Of course, if your relative is prepared to give you the full £62,500 you will be able to meet the requirement via cash savings alone.

For more details, see Appendix FM Section 1.7 Financial Requirement.

The financial requirement as it stands is an ill thought out, illogical piece of legislation. For example, what does it matter whether or not you were working in Thailand before moving to the UK, and if you were what your salary was, as long as you have a job once you are in the UK with an income sufficient to support you and your family without the use of public funds?

You may be interested in the report of the Parliamentary inquiry into new family migration rules; to which several members here submitted evidence at the time.

Key findings

1. Some British citizens and permanent residents in the UK, including people in full-time employment, have been separated from a non-EEA partner and in some cases their children as a result of the income requirement

2. Some British citizens and permanent residents have been prevented from returning to the UK with their non-EEA partner and any children as a result of the income requirement

3. Some children, including British children, have been indefinitely separated from a nonEEA parent as a result of the income requirement

4. The current permitted sources in order to meet the income requirement may not fully reflect the resources available to some families

5. The adult dependent relative visa category appears in effect to have been closed

Key findings spot on.

I lived apart from Thai wife and 2nd child for last 12 months whilst gaining employment in the Uk and awaiting 6 salary slips :-(

[just an idea]

It all great that they've made those key findings but the important bit is will they change anything based on them.

It took a team of 7 well paid people to descover that unfair and poorly thoughtout finacial reuirement may lead to families being seperated.... one of them could of spent 10 minutes looking through thai visa and they would of made the same key findings.

I feel very sorry for anyone who has to be apart from their family, and I would like to avoid it unless I really have no other option.