Poll shows most people disagree with banned politicians be allowed to return to politics

[Lite Beer]

Poll shows most people disagree with banned politicians be allowed to return to politics

BANGKOK: -- More than half of the people polled by the National Institute of Development Administration disagreed with a proposed amendment to the interim constitution to pave way for banned politicians to be appointed as members of the cabinet or the National Legislative Assembly.

Nida Poll was conducted during June 11-12 to gauge public opinions on proposed amendments to the interim charter. A total of 1,251 individuals, aged at least 18, from various occupations and professions were polled.

The poll shows that 50.44 percent of the respondents disagreed with the proposed amendment reasoning the banned politicians have committed political offences and, therefore, should not be allowed to assume political posts as they might commit the same offences again.

However, 44.04 percent of the respondents agreed that the ex-politicians should be given another chance to show off their capabilities.

The poll also shows the following results: 75.38 percent agreed that the referendum should include a few more questions other than to approve or disapprove the draft charter; 50.44 percent agreed with the setup of reform steering committee to replace the National Reform Council.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/poll-shows-most-people-disagree-with-banned-politicians-be-allowed-to-return-to-politics

-- Thai PBS 2015-06-14

[JOC]

Of course they should not be allowed to return!! They should be banned for life.

How the current "government", who are supposed to clean up Thailand, can even consider to allow banned politicians to return to the trough, is beyond me..................

[djjamie]

If given a second chance they will always abuse the first one knowing they will be forgiven.

Don't give them any chances and they will think twice about breaking the law. Don't give them a 5 year ban. Give them a life ban. They are representatives of the public and should behave as such. When they break the law they set that example for the people. When they say they have "urgent business" and can't be bothered attending important hearings they are setting that example to the public. These are the same people telling the public not to break the law.

If politicians were not given a second chance the PTP would be run by the tom yum cook that yinglucks chauffeur gets his lunch from as the rest would be banned. The Democrats would be guaranteed an election win then if criminals were not allowed to run as politicians again.

[Bannum opinions]

Analyze the leadership of NIDA.

It will tell you all you need to know, why they come up with support for the anti-politician ideology, plus the other Polling stuff they generate.

Trying to give the anti-politician mantra a public opinion veneer, is just part of the anti-democrat's campaign to try and undermine Democratic practices.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Bannum opinions

[JOC]

Mr P's own little amnesty package!!

That is why all political opponents are charged with LM, to make sure they can never return...........

Whereas all the good people, who only made a minor mistake, will be allowed back at the trough. Sure it is a coincidence, they are all wearing yellow........................

[lostoday]

Do they ban politicians in the UK or USA? Is it even legal? Australia it makes sense but what is the rule in the UK and USA or is this just a Thai and 3rd world idea?

[z42]

Seems logical enough. How can somebody impeached for corruption, criminality or otherwise be trusted again, or more pertinently why should they.

And as for skills they wish to show off, it's not like they are innate and can't be taught and honed by others. No politician is indespensible. Especially not in a society as corrupt as Thai society

[lostoday]

Seems logical enough. How can somebody impeached for corruption, criminality or otherwise be trusted again, or more pertinently why should they.

And as for skills they wish to show off, it's not like they are innate and can't be taught and honed by others. No politician is indespensible. Especially not in a society as corrupt as Thai society

Maybe you know. Does any civilized Western society ban politicians or is it strictly a third world thing?

[jerojero]

Sure! Let the rats return to the public feeding trough! Keep the chronic corruption going with former criminal politicians. Yep, let them back!

Edited June 14, 2015 by jerojero

[halloween]

Seems logical enough. How can somebody impeached for corruption, criminality or otherwise be trusted again, or more pertinently why should they.

And as for skills they wish to show off, it's not like they are innate and can't be taught and honed by others. No politician is indespensible. Especially not in a society as corrupt as Thai society

Maybe you know. Does any civilized Western society ban politicians or is it strictly a third world thing?

"Laws restricting the ability of criminals to engage in politics exist in every Australian jurisdiction. They vary widely in their effects. In Western Australia a person convicted of a 'felony' is barred from holding office for the rest of his or her life. In most jurisdictions, they are prevented from holding office while in jail provided the sentence is of a certain length, usually a year or more. In Queensland convictions for certain types of offence, such as political bribery, prevent a person from being a candidate for a fixed period of time, even if they are not in jail. And in the Commonwealth, a person cannot take office if convicted and under sentence for a crime 'punishable' by a sentence of more than a year, thus linking disqualification not only to the person's actual sentence but to the maximum sentence for the crime." http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/Publications_Archive/CIB/cib0203/03CIB22

[halloween]

Mr P's own little amnesty package!!

That is why all political opponents are charged with LM, to make sure they can never return...........

Whereas all the good people, who only made a minor mistake, will be allowed back at the trough. Sure it is a coincidence, they are all wearing yellow........................

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/832037-somkid-tipped-for-cabinet-as-ban-scrapped/

It's been a whole 3 days. Short term memory loss can be a sign of a debilitating and fatal illness.

[lostoday]

Seems logical enough. How can somebody impeached for corruption, criminality or otherwise be trusted again, or more pertinently why should they.

And as for skills they wish to show off, it's not like they are innate and can't be taught and honed by others. No politician is indespensible. Especially not in a society as corrupt as Thai society

Maybe you know. Does any civilized Western society ban politicians or is it strictly a third world thing?

"Laws restricting the ability of criminals to engage in politics exist in every Australian jurisdiction. They vary widely in their effects. In Western Australia a person convicted of a 'felony' is barred from holding office for the rest of his or her life. In most jurisdictions, they are prevented from holding office while in jail provided the sentence is of a certain length, usually a year or more. In Queensland convictions for certain types of offence, such as political bribery, prevent a person from being a candidate for a fixed period of time, even if they are not in jail. And in the Commonwealth, a person cannot take office if convicted and under sentence for a crime 'punishable' by a sentence of more than a year, thus linking disqualification not only to the person's actual sentence but to the maximum sentence for the crime." http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/Publications_Archive/CIB/cib0203/03CIB22

That is criminals. I get that. That is not what I asked. Australia or the UK or USA don't, can't ban people not convicted of a serious crime from holding office. As far as I know no civilized Western country has the legal right to ban a politician who has not committed a serious crime. Do you know of any countries not third world countries who ban politicians because the current government fears or does not like them? (Singapore doesn't count because they are not a democracy)

[halloween]

Maybe you know. Does any civilized Western society ban politicians or is it strictly a third world thing?

"Laws restricting the ability of criminals to engage in politics exist in every Australian jurisdiction. They vary widely in their effects. In Western Australia a person convicted of a 'felony' is barred from holding office for the rest of his or her life. In most jurisdictions, they are prevented from holding office while in jail provided the sentence is of a certain length, usually a year or more. In Queensland convictions for certain types of offence, such as political bribery, prevent a person from being a candidate for a fixed period of time, even if they are not in jail. And in the Commonwealth, a person cannot take office if convicted and under sentence for a crime 'punishable' by a sentence of more than a year, thus linking disqualification not only to the person's actual sentence but to the maximum sentence for the crime." http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/Publications_Archive/CIB/cib0203/03CIB22

That is criminals. I get that. That is not what I asked. Australia or the UK or USA don't, can't ban people not convicted of a serious crime from holding office. As far as I know no civilized Western country has the legal right to ban a politician who has not committed a serious crime. Do you know of any countries not third world countries who ban politicians because the current government fears or does not like them? (Singapore doesn't count because they are not a democracy)

No, not even Thailand. Who are these politicians banned "because the current government fears or does not like them"?

Thaksin for example sentenced to 2 years for abuse of office could certainly not be elected to Oz Federal parliament (should he be able to buy citizenship). Are you taking the position that crimes committed while in office are not "real"crimes because they were elected? In most places, they would be considered MORE serious because of the abuse of trust involved.

[ratcatcher]

Seems logical enough. How can somebody impeached for corruption, criminality or otherwise be trusted again, or more pertinently why should they.

And as for skills they wish to show off, it's not like they are innate and can't be taught and honed by others. No politician is indespensible. Especially not in a society as corrupt as Thai society

Maybe you know. Does any civilized Western society ban politicians or is it strictly a third world thing?

In the third world country known as Ireland, there is this

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/corrupt-tds-to-be-banned-from-office-for-a-decade-30604809.htmle

and even over in third world USA there is a move in Connecticut.

http://www.ctpost.com/local/article/Bill-to-ban-corrupt-politicians-from-office-is-6173473.php

So, it looks strictly a third world "thing".

[NickJ]

Prison.....Then made to be contestants on the Thai version of Dancing With The Stars.... Like Tom Delay.

[lostoday]

Seems logical enough. How can somebody impeached for corruption, criminality or otherwise be trusted again, or more pertinently why should they.

And as for skills they wish to show off, it's not like they are innate and can't be taught and honed by others. No politician is indespensible. Especially not in a society as corrupt as Thai society

Maybe you know. Does any civilized Western society ban politicians or is it strictly a third world thing?

In the third world country known as Ireland, there is this

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/corrupt-tds-to-be-banned-from-office-for-a-decade-30604809.htmle

and even over in third world USA there is a move in Connecticut.

http://www.ctpost.com/local/article/Bill-to-ban-corrupt-politicians-from-office-is-6173473.php

So, it looks strictly a third world "thing".

You and the pumpkin guy are still talking about crimes. I'm and Thailand is talking about the politicians committing political offences as per the OP.

OP "The poll shows that 50.44 percent of the respondents disagreed with the proposed amendment reasoning the banned politicians have committed political offences"

Now I don't know what a political offence is but I'm assuming it is not the same as a criminal offense because if it was a criminal offense - throw the puppies in jail.

No, not a criminal offense we are talking here about a political offensive. I don't know what a political offense is. I'm betting it is someting so server it might start a volcano exploding like those people in Indonesia.

If anyone knows what a political offense is as opposed to a criminal offense that we are allowed to talk about pray let them speak.

I think a political offense is like what the cat is doing below to the mayor of cat ville when told no more foul fishy smelling cat food.

Edited June 14, 2015 by lostoday

[halloween]

You and the pumpkin guy are still talking about crimes. I'm and Thailand is talking about the politicians committing political offences as per the OP.

OP "The poll shows that 50.44 percent of the respondents disagreed with the proposed amendment reasoning the banned politicians have committed political offences"

Now I don't know what a political offence is but I'm assuming it is not the same as a criminal offense because if it was a criminal offense - throw the puppies in jail.

No, not a criminal offense we are talking here about a political offensive. I don't know what a political offense is. I'm betting it is someting so server it might start a volcano exploding like those people in Indonesia.

If anyone knows what a political offense is as opposed to a criminal offense that we are allowed to talk about pray let them speak.

I think a political offense is like what the cat is doing below to the mayor of cat ville when told no more foul fishy smelling cat food.

So to summarise, you don't know what you're talking about, or who, but assume it is "because the current government fears or does not like them".

[lostoday]

You and the pumpkin guy are still talking about crimes. I'm and Thailand is talking about the politicians committing political offences as per the OP.

OP "The poll shows that 50.44 percent of the respondents disagreed with the proposed amendment reasoning the banned politicians have committed political offences"

Now I don't know what a political offence is but I'm assuming it is not the same as a criminal offense because if it was a criminal offense - throw the puppies in jail.

No, not a criminal offense we are talking here about a political offensive. I don't know what a political offense is. I'm betting it is something so servere it might start a volcano exploding like those people in Indonesia.

If anyone knows what a political offense is as opposed to a criminal offense that we are allowed to talk about pray let them speak.

I think a political offense is like what the cat is doing below to the mayor of cat ville when told no more foul fishy smelling cat food.

So to summarise, you don't know what you're talking about, or who, but assume it is "because the current government fears or does not like them".

If you know what a political offense is please let us know. I'm not flaming you. Can you discuss a topic without flaming me?

[scorecard]

Seems logical enough. How can somebody impeached for corruption, criminality or otherwise be trusted again, or more pertinently why should they.

And as for skills they wish to show off, it's not like they are innate and can't be taught and honed by others. No politician is indespensible. Especially not in a society as corrupt as Thai society

Maybe you know. Does any civilized Western society ban politicians or is it strictly a third world thing?

In the third world country known as Ireland, there is this

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/corrupt-tds-to-be-banned-from-office-for-a-decade-30604809.htmle

and even over in third world USA there is a move in Connecticut.

http://www.ctpost.com/local/article/Bill-to-ban-corrupt-politicians-from-office-is-6173473.php

So, it looks strictly a third world "thing".

You and the pumpkin guy are still talking about crimes. I'm and Thailand is talking about the politicians committing political offences as per the OP.

OP "The poll shows that 50.44 percent of the respondents disagreed with the proposed amendment reasoning the banned politicians have committed political offences"

Now I don't know what a political offence is but I'm assuming it is not the same as a criminal offense because if it was a criminal offense - throw the puppies in jail.

No, not a criminal offense we are talking here about a political offensive. I don't know what a political offense is. I'm betting it is someting so server it might start a volcano exploding like those people in Indonesia.

If anyone knows what a political offense is as opposed to a criminal offense that we are allowed to talk about pray let them speak.

I think a political offense is like what the cat is doing below to the mayor of cat ville when told no more foul fishy smelling cat food.

Enough already, numerous comments have highlighted what is meant, please read and understand the obvious points.

[halloween]

You and the pumpkin guy are still talking about crimes. I'm and Thailand is talking about the politicians committing political offences as per the OP.

OP "The poll shows that 50.44 percent of the respondents disagreed with the proposed amendment reasoning the banned politicians have committed political offences"

Now I don't know what a political offence is but I'm assuming it is not the same as a criminal offense because if it was a criminal offense - throw the puppies in jail.

No, not a criminal offense we are talking here about a political offensive. I don't know what a political offense is. I'm betting it is something so servere it might start a volcano exploding like those people in Indonesia.

If anyone knows what a political offense is as opposed to a criminal offense that we are allowed to talk about pray let them speak.

I think a political offense is like what the cat is doing below to the mayor of cat ville when told no more foul fishy smelling cat food.

So to summarise, you don't know what you're talking about, or who, but assume it is "because the current government fears or does not like them".

If you know what a political offense is please let us know. I'm not flaming you. Can you discuss a topic without flaming me?

That wasn't a flame, that was an accurate summary. I can only assume a political offence is a crime while in office, or while attempting to seek office. There were a large number of politicians banned for offering an electoral bribe, and videoed doing it. Others have been banned for concealing their assets, which may or may not be a serious criminal offence, perjury perhaps if a sworn statement, but seems sufficient.

[lostoday]

You and the pumpkin guy are still talking about crimes. I'm and Thailand is talking about the politicians committing political offences as per the OP.

OP "The poll shows that 50.44 percent of the respondents disagreed with the proposed amendment reasoning the banned politicians have committed political offences"

Now I don't know what a political offence is but I'm assuming it is not the same as a criminal offense because if it was a criminal offense - throw the puppies in jail.

No, not a criminal offense we are talking here about a political offensive. I don't know what a political offense is. I'm betting it is someting so server it might start a volcano exploding like those people in Indonesia.

If anyone knows what a political offense is as opposed to a criminal offense that we are allowed to talk about pray let them speak.

I think a political offense is like what the cat is doing below to the mayor of cat ville when told no more foul fishy smelling cat food.

Enough already, numerous comments have highlighted what is meant, please read and understand the obvious points.

No one has defined what a political offense is. Is it the same as a criminal offense? Misdemeanor, felony? If it is getting too hot for you get out of the kitchen.

I'll spell it out for you again. No one, not in the OP or afterwards has defined what a political offense is. If you know feel free to be the first poster to define it.

[lostoday]

You and the pumpkin guy are still talking about crimes. I'm and Thailand is talking about the politicians committing political offences as per the OP.

OP "The poll shows that 50.44 percent of the respondents disagreed with the proposed amendment reasoning the banned politicians have committed political offences"

Now I don't know what a political offence is but I'm assuming it is not the same as a criminal offense because if it was a criminal offense - throw the puppies in jail.

No, not a criminal offense we are talking here about a political offensive. I don't know what a political offense is. I'm betting it is something so servere it might start a volcano exploding like those people in Indonesia.

If anyone knows what a political offense is as opposed to a criminal offense that we are allowed to talk about pray let them speak.

I think a political offense is like what the cat is doing below to the mayor of cat ville when told no more foul fishy smelling cat food.

So to summarise, you don't know what you're talking about, or who, but assume it is "because the current government fears or does not like them".

If you know what a political offense is please let us know. I'm not flaming you. Can you discuss a topic without flaming me?

That wasn't a flame, that was an accurate summary. I can only assume a political offence is a crime while in office, or while attempting to seek office. There were a large number of politicians banned for offering an electoral bribe, and videoed doing it. Others have been banned for concealing their assets, which may or may not be a serious criminal offence, perjury perhaps if a sworn statement, but seems sufficient.

I can only speak about the USA the link provided is a list of American politicians convicted of crimes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_federal_politicians_convicted_of_crimes

If the US electorate wants to elect them that is up to them.

I think banning politicians is for the most part a third world trait and not worthy of discussing let alone implementing.

If you are in prison you can't hold office. That much seems obvious.

My suggestion to Thailand would be get with the program and start conducting politics like the rest of the civilized world.

[faraday]

Keith Vaz a Brit Minister was involved with a "Cash For Passports" fiasco in 2001.

He's been up to all sorts of things - still got his job though.

[LannaGuy]

they will ban anyone who does not tow the party line, jail anyone who meets with friends in public to protest and shut up any journalist who dares trying being 'investigative'

farangs who support this are unbelievable in their hypocrisy as they would wail and scream if this happened in their little 'farangland' back home

a dark, dark day for Thailand to ban those they fear and then use the 'public' to justify it through polls

[halloween]

That wasn't a flame, that was an accurate summary. I can only assume a political offence is a crime while in office, or while attempting to seek office. There were a large number of politicians banned for offering an electoral bribe, and videoed doing it. Others have been banned for concealing their assets, which may or may not be a serious criminal offence, perjury perhaps if a sworn statement, but seems sufficient.

I can only speak about the USA the link provided is a list of American politicians convicted of crimes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_federal_politicians_convicted_of_crimes

If the US electorate wants to elect them that is up to them.

I think banning politicians is for the most part a third world trait and not worthy of discussing let alone implementing.

If you are in prison you can't hold office. That much seems obvious.

My suggestion to Thailand would be get with the program and start conducting politics like the rest of the civilized world.

The problem is that your idea of the "civilised world" is the USA. Is there a list of US politicians that weren't convicted of their crimes because they were politicians?

[lostoday]

That wasn't a flame, that was an accurate summary. I can only assume a political offence is a crime while in office, or while attempting to seek office. There were a large number of politicians banned for offering an electoral bribe, and videoed doing it. Others have been banned for concealing their assets, which may or may not be a serious criminal offence, perjury perhaps if a sworn statement, but seems sufficient.

I can only speak about the USA the link provided is a list of American politicians convicted of crimes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_federal_politicians_convicted_of_crimes

If the US electorate wants to elect them that is up to them.

I think banning politicians is for the most part a third world trait and not worthy of discussing let alone implementing.

If you are in prison you can't hold office. That much seems obvious.

My suggestion to Thailand would be get with the program and start conducting politics like the rest of the civilized world.

The problem is that your idea of the "civilised world" is the USA. Is there a list of US politicians that weren't convicted of their crimes because they were politicians?

The big ones. Clinton got Impeached but not removed from office and Nixon got pardoned.

[mikemac]

They could just ban the Shin related party and the Democrats and hold elections, policed by government officials to make sure vote buying does not occur.

The Shins and anyone ever associated with them should be banned for the good of the country. And it would make the remaining parties think twice about doing anything corrupt.

[phoenixdoglover]

First, I agree with the members who question the definition of "political crime".

The underlying principal is "equal protection" under the law. That means every citizen should have the law applied to them in the same way.

If a politician, or a police officer, a Prime Minister, or a rag picker engage in corrupt acts such as giving or receiving bribes, then they may be convicted of those crimes. Bribery is a criminal offense.

[suitable pause for considering how equal protection doesn't play out well in many places...but that in itself is an issue of corruption]

The other key concept is that political speech is considered free speech.

That means, once a criminal is convicted, serves their sentence and probation, and is otherwise finished with the legal system, they should be allowed to return to politics. Let the people decide if they want to elect an ex-con.

Should Thaksin be banned for life? I don't know. First, tell me the crime for which he was convicted by a court of law, and the sentence he received.

Edited June 14, 2015 by phoenixdoglover

[mikemac]

First, I agree with the members who question the definition of "political crime".

The underlying principal is "equal protection" under the law. That means every citizen should have the law applied to them in the same way.

If a politician, or a police officer, a Prime Minister, or a rag picker engage in corrupt acts such as giving or receiving bribes, then they may be convicted of those crimes. Bribery is a criminal offense.

[suitable pause for considering how equal protection doesn't play out well in many places...but that in itself is an issue of corruption]

The other key concept is that political speech is considered free speech.

That means, once a criminal is convicted, serves their sentence and probation, and is otherwise finished with the legal system, they should be allowed to return to politics. Let the people decide if they want to elect an ex-con.

Should Thaksin be banned for life? I don't know. First, tell me the crime for which he was convicted by a court of law, and the sentence he received.

I Googled - "Thaksin Shinawatra convicted..............." and there were 133,000 results.

The very first one was this one - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/oct/21/thaksin-thailand-corruption

And the first two paragraphs read -

"Thailand's former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra was today sentenced to two years' imprisonment in absentia over a corrupt land deal.

In a ruling that made him the first Thai politician to be convicted of corruption committed while prime minister, Thaksin was found to have violated conflict of interest rules in helping his wife buy land from a state agency at a reduced price."

[Linky]

Nelson Mandela, a convicted criminal, became president of RSA.