Child custody situation

[20202020]

I have a situation with my ex and her family. Any advice from the members here would be appreciated. Here is my story:

I am a father of two kids. My son is 10 and my daughter is 7. I have lived in Thailand for 10 years and have been a teacher at the same school for the last 7 years.

About four years ago my ex-wife and I divorced. We got shared custody of the children and I had to pay all expenses for the kids. The kids slept with her during the week and stayed with me on the weekends. Also I picked the children up from school every day during the week so they stayed with me after school until 6pm.

My ex-wife has left for Japan in April and has abandoned her children. She now lives in Japan and is going to school and working massage. She is trying to get a work visa and citizenship in Japan to live there permanently. She says that she leaves the kids and custody with her mother.

My son refuses to stay with the grandmother and for the past 4 months has been with me 100% of the time. I take my son to school, pick him up after school and he sleeps in my home. He says he is afraid of the grandmother and that she doesn't take care of him well. The mother and grandmother have stopped trying to take my son because they know that he wants to be with me.

My daughter has a different situation. The grandmother wants my daughter with her and now says that she cannot sleep at my house. This weekend my daughter slept with the grandmother. This is the first time my daughter has stayed the weekend with grandmother in her life. The mother and grandmother have told my daughter that my son has left them and she is all that is left of the family and that she must be with them or they will be sad and hurt. My daughter wants to be with me but feels confused, worried and sad.

The court order said that I had to pay 7,500 for each child(15,000) to the mother for maintenance. For the last four years I have paid her around 6,300 a month to my ex-wife. I also paid all school fees, medical fees, food and clothes for the children. This agreement went well for four years. Now that the mother is gone the grandmother wants me to pay her 15,000 and to continue to pay all school, food, clothes and medical fees. The grandmother, on the behalf of the mother, sent a letter to my school claiming that I don't pay her and wants my school to take out money each month and give it to her. This has put me in a bad standing in my school because I had to explain the situation to many different people.

My son and I have also been harassed in face book and on email. My ex-wife sent my son a post on his face book timeline saying that he is a bad boy and that my ex-wife will have me arrested and that I am a bad father. My son's friends and my family had to see this on his face book and it has caused him a great deal of stress.

Due to all the new situations (mother leaving for Japan for good, grandmother changing the agreements that have been in place for years, both kids now being old enough to choose who they want to stay with and they choose me, son staying with me 100% of time and never being with his mother or grandmother yet I still have to pay them, harassment by the mother on social media) can I have the divorce agreement changed where I have full custody or at least parental power? The divorce agreement is a supreme court agreement. I would also need a good lawyer but I don't know of any so any help in obtaining a lawyer would be appreciated.

[MaeJoMTB]

Unusual court order, way above the normal amount?

Usually 3k/month/child (in BK maybe 6k/month/child)

Are you sure you didn't make a voluntary agreement?

Anyway, without mum around, you don't have to pay anything to anyone.

Move the kids schools, to one that doesn't know grandmother, she has no rights of any kind over the kids.

Divorce agreement cannot usually be changed, but she can't reassign her custody, if she don't take her time, you can have them full time.

Social media, block mother, cancel account, why give her the opportunity?

Edited June 15, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[20202020]

Thanks for the reply Maejomtb.

It was not a voluntary agreement.

At the time of divorced my ex was unemployed

and claimed she couldn't pay anything for the kids.

My ex says she transferred parental power to her

mother so she can decide the best interests of the

kids.

[MaeJoMTB]

Thanks for the reply Maejomtb.

It was not a voluntary agreement.

At the time of divorced my ex was unemployed

and claimed she couldn't pay anything for the kids.

My ex says she transferred parental power to her

mother so she can decide the best interests of the

kids.

She's lying, only a court order can transfer custody.

Never heard of anyone paying more than 6k ......... you been stitched up by someone.

Probably your lawyer and her lawyer conspired against you.

Back when you were divorced court order would be 3k/child/month plus 50% expenses.

Her employment status not relevant, she's hardly going to admit her occupation in court, is she!

Edited June 15, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[nabbie]

Shared custody means the parental power should strictly be shared between mother and father. Mother's family members have no part in that but herself only. You say your daughter is confused, worried & sad - the cause of that is obviously due to her mother's absence. Meanwhile I feel that you should gain the full parental power temporarily until her mother will be back with children to resume her shared custody. Maybe you could report that up-to-dated situation to the court if you think necessary. Please bear in mind, I am no experts but I have a full custody myself. Good luck.

[SOTIRIOS]

...where is your lawyer in all of this...

..seems like you can take your children outright...

,,,the law says 'mother or father only'....

...abandonment....

...plus a case for slander...

...all school and related expenses...seems it should be half....

[mrfaroukh]

None us are a lawyer, you better get proper help from a lawyer

[asdecas]

Without knowing the letter of the law, I tend to agree with previous posters who say or infer that you should exercise your rights more, given the situation you describe.

No doubt any farang does well to tread carefully in any conflict situation in Thailand, but the law does appear firmly on your side and you do appear to have been the responsible party in a sorry situation.

Were it me, I'd be inclined first to confirm my legal standing, then take steps to assure the long-term welfare of the children based on my lawful rights.

[20202020]

Thanks for the advice guys. I am looking for a good lawyer now to help with this situation. I have heard that transferring of parental power is a common situation in Thailand and that giving the rights to the grandmother may not change a previous courts ruling.

[offset]

I would have thought that if you have 50/50 parenting rights the Mother cannot decide alone where either of you children live and if she is in Japan I would guess that leaves you in a very strong position to get 100 parenting rights

I would even go as far as saying that you have every right to go and take your Daughter from her Grandmother but you might need the help of the police and if you did you would soon find out if the Grandmother as been legally given child rights over your Daughter

[fitnesspm]

I didn't think child support existed in Thailand???

[offset]

I didn't think child support existed in Thailand???

There is a Children's Court and a Children's welfare department (I do not know the correct Thai name) that oversees all children's welfare as far as parenting rights go and will even look after the children's money in some cases

[nontabury]

A farang lawyer in Korrat called Sebastion is very good in child custody cases. The name of his firm is called Essan Lawyers, I think.

[Robert Finnegan]

You may want to consider involving your embassy, they may have a list of reputable attorneys you can draw from or possibly have legal assistance available.

[Ulic]

Best of luck, play hard ball you have been overly generous. You are Grandmothers retirement plan.

[rhodie]

Keep the children with you. The mother has abandoned them. Once you allow the family to get involved it will be very difficult. Your daughter will be/is being brainwashed. Don't let that happen. Get a good lawyer that will act for you.

[Dogmatix]

Most Thai men, if they want their children and have money, just take them and issue threats to the mother and family to keep away. The mothers usually comply, if they don't have money and influence. They just scuttle off and start a new family with some one else, occasionally sighing for their lost children but glad that the father has taken over the financial burden.

I have not used his services but corresponded with Sebastian at Isaan Lawyers once and he sounds good, whereas most Thai lawyers I have dealt with are greedy smucks. He has a good website with a lot of information in it.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Dogmatix

[Puyai]

A grandmother would not have the right to custody over a father. You are the child's farther, grow a pair and take your child back.

[keskeseksa]

This situation is a familiar one. Many Thai women marry a farang for financial comfort. After awhile they become bored because things don't happen they way they want. After the divorce, they use the children as pawn to take revenge on the ex husband.

Please go to a lawyer who will take you to the family court. (Don't use embassy lawyers: they are usually overpriced, the best ones are by reference, or go by yourself to the family court which is located near Sanam Luang and ask the clerk to introduce you to a good lawyer). I have nothing but praise for the family court. Their first interest is the welfare of the children and your case is routine. Before going to court there will be hearings and the court will summon your ex-wife and relatives who look after your daughter. If she does not show up, it will be easy to win custody. Keep as many documents as evidence as possible, such as what your ex-wife writes on Facebook, photographs, expenses etc. It is also possible that you have not registered your paternity at the Amphur, few foreigners know about this.

And don't worry about the lies of the other party, the court will know, and they will interview the children without the presence of the parents.

You can contact me at <[email protected]>.

[20202020]

I have emailed lawyers about this situation. The majority opinion is that parental powers can be transferred. My ex had parental powers and she transferred them to her mother. In the west we would contest this but this is common in Thailand and I think attacking it in the courts won't help. I believe my best chance is to change the 4 year old divorce agreement due to all the changes that have been made in the case. What I need to know is what are my chances that the court will hear the case and what are the chances that they would make a change?

Here are some replies I've gotten from lawyers on the transfer of parental powers:

No. You share "parental powers" with your ex.

Example: Me and my wife have a child. We agree that the child with live in American with my brother. So my brother has "physical custody". But we both know that he has no rights on the child. My wife and I have the rights. We agree that my brother can have the child.

Right now, it is the same. You and your wife have the same rights. She can if she wants to let her mother have the children. Same as you, if you want, when you have the children, let them to your brother, or a third party. But if you disagree with her, then the Court must decide. Example: You want the child to go to school A and she wants school B. The Court will decide. Courts do not like to make decisions for parents but sometimes, they do not have the choice.

Another response: In practice neither your rights nor your ex-wife’s rights in this joint custody over the children has been violated. The rights is still maintain, it is the matter of allowing an individual to look after her child.

[nabbie]

I have emailed lawyers about this situation. The majority opinion is that parental powers can be transferred. My ex had parental powers and she transferred them to her mother.

I am sorry to say that I have to disagree that. No parental power can be transferred but mother & father only. Her grandmother can do the physical custody providing mother must obtain father's permission first.

[Mario2008]

Parental ower rest with the parents, not the grand parents. It means that among other things the parents can decide where the child stays.

It is the natural course that if the other parent cannot take care of the children the other parent takes care of the children.

The mother cannot transfer her powers to her grand mother, she can give her physical custody (give the child in her possesion) but not parental rights. As by law you have parental rights and thus can deterine the place where the child stays, you do not have to accept that the child is being taken care of by the grandmother. You can simply demand the child from the grand mother and any refusal can be grounds for arrest and prosecution.

Given that the mother is away there are now new circumstances, meaning you can ask a judge to reconsider the custody arrangement. That includes the place the child stays and the amount of child maintenance. This time the mother might be forced to pay you maintenanc for taking care of the children. Taking care of the children financially is a shared responsibility, it includes sharing the medical and educational costs.

If you just want to take physical custody or go to court and formalise things is something you should discuss with a lawyer. The threath of a lawsuit in which she will be asked to pay her share of the child maintenance might be enough to tone your ex down. And the longer the actual situation in which you take care of the children and she is away continues, the stronger you stands should it actually go to court.

[Puyai]

I can't believe that any father would let a grandmother take their child away from him, even more so when the child doesn't want to stay with her grandmother!

I can't believe you let this situation happen..

Why don't you just take your child back?

[20202020]

Thank you Mario for responding. I have read previous issues similar to mine on this forum and you have always given good advice.

Obtaining a lawyer is my next move. I am setting up consultations this week and will hopefully have someone by the weekend. If anyone knows a good lawyer who could help me, please advise.

[20202020]

Puyai: I want to know what I can and can't do before I act in such a manner. If I acted without authority and made demands I am afraid they would use that against me in court.

[Puyai]

Puyai: I want to know what I can and can't do before I act in such a manner. If I acted without authority and made demands I am afraid they would use that against me in court.

You are the father. You have the authority. You don't make demands as it's your right to take your daughter.

[nontabury]

I have emailed lawyers about this situation. The majority opinion is that parental powers can be transferred. My ex had parental powers and she transferred them to her mother. In the west we would contest this but this is common in Thailand and I think attacking it in the courts won't help. I believe my best chance is to change the 4 year old divorce agreement due to all the changes that have been made in the case. What I need to know is what are my chances that the court will hear the case and what are the chances that they would make a change?

Here are some replies I've gotten from lawyers on the transfer of parental powers:

No. You share "parental powers" with your ex.

Example: Me and my wife have a child. We agree that the child with live in American with my brother. So my brother has "physical custody". But we both know that he has no rights on the child. My wife and I have the rights. We agree that my brother can have the child.

Right now, it is the same. You and your wife have the same rights. She can if she wants to let her mother have the children. Same as you, if you want, when you have the children, let them to your brother, or a third party. But if you disagree with her, then the Court must decide. Example: You want the child to go to school A and she wants school B. The Court will decide. Courts do not like to make decisions for parents but sometimes, they do not have the choice.

Another response: In practice neither your rights nor your ex-wife’s rights in this joint custody over the children has been violated. The rights is still maintain, it is the matter of allowing an individual to look after her child.

I can only assume that these replies came from Thai Lawyers. OK. I may be wrong but I think you will find that your wife Cannot transfer her custody over to her mother,it must go through the courts. Your best bet is to get your daughter, and keep her with you while YOU obtain the courts authority to have full custody. As I said previously contact Sebastian at Isaan

Lawyers 044354114 or yes as others say "get some balls"

[offset]

I have emailed lawyers about this situation. The majority opinion is that parental powers can be transferred. My ex had parental powers and she transferred them to her mother. In the west we would contest this but this is common in Thailand and I think attacking it in the courts won't help. I believe my best chance is to change the 4 year old divorce agreement due to all the changes that have been made in the case. What I need to know is what are my chances that the court will hear the case and what are the chances that they would make a change?

Here are some replies I've gotten from lawyers on the transfer of parental powers:

No. You share "parental powers" with your ex.

Example: Me and my wife have a child. We agree that the child with live in American with my brother. So my brother has "physical custody". But we both know that he has no rights on the child. My wife and I have the rights. We agree that my brother can have the child.

Right now, it is the same. You and your wife have the same rights. She can if she wants to let her mother have the children. Same as you, if you want, when you have the children, let them to your brother, or a third party. But if you disagree with her, then the Court must decide. Example: You want the child to go to school A and she wants school B. The Court will decide. Courts do not like to make decisions for parents but sometimes, they do not have the choice.

Another response: In practice neither your rights nor your ex-wifes rights in this joint custody over the children has been violated. The rights is still maintain, it is the matter of allowing an individual to look after her child.

I can only assume that these replies came from Thai Lawyers. OK. I may be wrong but I think you will find that your wife Cannot transfer her custody over to her mother,it must go through the courts. Your best bet is to get your daughter, and keep her with you while YOU obtain the courts authority to have full custody. As I said previously contact Sebastian at Isaan

Lawyers 044354114 or yes as others say "get some balls"

He as already had a reply from the lawyer on this site stating all that he needs to know

[nontabury]

I have emailed lawyers about this situation. The majority opinion is that parental powers can be transferred. My ex had parental powers and she transferred them to her mother. In the west we would contest this but this is common in Thailand and I think attacking it in the courts won't help. I believe my best chance is to change the 4 year old divorce agreement due to all the changes that have been made in the case. What I need to know is what are my chances that the court will hear the case and what are the chances that they would make a change?

Here are some replies I've gotten from lawyers on the transfer of parental powers:

No. You share "parental powers" with your ex.

Example: Me and my wife have a child. We agree that the child with live in American with my brother. So my brother has "physical custody". But we both know that he has no rights on the child. My wife and I have the rights. We agree that my brother can have the child.

Right now, it is the same. You and your wife have the same rights. She can if she wants to let her mother have the children. Same as you, if you want, when you have the children, let them to your brother, or a third party. But if you disagree with her, then the Court must decide. Example: You want the child to go to school A and she wants school B. The Court will decide. Courts do not like to make decisions for parents but sometimes, they do not have the choice.

Another response: In practice neither your rights nor your ex-wifes rights in this joint custody over the children has been violated. The rights is still maintain, it is the matter of allowing an individual to look after her child.

I can only assume that these replies came from Thai Lawyers. OK. I may be wrong but I think you will find that your wife Cannot transfer her custody over to her mother,it must go through the courts. Your best bet is to get your daughter, and keep her with you while YOU obtain the courts authority to have full custody. As I said previously contact Sebastian at Isaan

Lawyers 044354114 or yes as others say "get some balls"

He as already had a reply from the lawyer on this site stating all that he needs to know

There are Lawyers and then there are Lawyers! No more so than in Thailand.

[20202020]

Thanks for the comments and advice. I've emailed Sebastian at Isaan
Lawyers but he is not in Thailand now so I'm working with his Thai

co-worker. They've asked to see the court papers and will hopefully

help direct me in the next course of action.