Penang Halts Issuance Of Double-entry Tourist Visas

[george]

Penang halts issuance of double-entry tourist visas

PHUKET: -- The Royal Thai Consulate in neighboring Penang, Malaysia, has stopped issuing double-entry tourist visas for Thailand. The only tourist visa currently available there is a 60-day single-entry one.

An official at the consulate this afternoon told the Gazette that Consul Pramote Pramoonsab had issued an order to cease issuance of double-entry tourist visas.

Other visa categories are unaffected by the order, the official added.

The Royal Thai Consulate in Kota Bharu and the Royal Thai Embassy in Kuala Lumpur are, for the time being, still issuing double-entry tourist visas.

Fareeda Chewae of the Royal Thai Embassy in Kuala Lumpur warned that this may change in the near future, however.

The Gazette contacted the consulates following the news that from October 1 Thai Immigration will limit to three the number of visas on arrival it s officers will issue at Immigration checkpoints in Thailand.

To cope with the new policy, many long-stay “tourists” who currently do ‘visa runs’ every month are looking for alternative ways to spend more than three months with their families or friends in Thailand. As a possible short term solution to the problem, some foreigners had been contemplating short trips to Penang where they would obtain multiple-entry tourist visas that would not go against their limit of three visas “on arrival [in Thailand]”.

The chiefs of all Immigration offices will meet in Bangkok tomorrow to discuss the details of the new Immigration policy, after which they will make a much-awaited statement.

While intended as a crackdown measure on foreigners working illegally in the county, the policy has created widespread concern across broad segments of the foreign community in Phuket, particularly among the large numbers who do not work and have no interest in working.

Perceived correctly or incorrectly as a move to discourage foreigners from spending much time here, the new policy has alarmed local residents, both Thai and foreign, about the future of Thailand’s all-important tourism and property development industries.

--Phuket Gazette 2006-09-14

[JonnieB]

Well the options are dwindling for those who are under 50, financially viable (no desire or need to work) but who wish to reside legally in LOS. The option of getting the 3x tourist visa out of Penang to tide one over for about a year appears to be over (and will likely be at all other embassies and consulates in short order).

I have no problem with the government taking measures to control it's borders and keep out "undesirables" and lot of the other marginal flotsam that washes ashore here but it seems to me there should be some way to also accommodate those who are under 50 and self-supporting either from businesses based outside of Thailand or have enough of the folding stuff already that they don't have to work (and don't want to get married).

Seems to me the easy answer is just to remove the age restriction on the "retirement extension" to a non-imm O visa and retain the financial viability requirements. The age of the person should not matter to the government...only that they are financial self-supporting (without working in Thailand).

Malaysia's "My Second Home" expatriate residence program allows anyone whatever age to "retire" there as long as they meet various financial requirements. Maybe this will dawn on the Thai authorities that this may meet their goals too.

Like the PG article says...many property developers, house/apt owners, and business operators of all sorts may see a not insignificant effect on their businesses if these changes are not handled carefully.

[Jockstar]

The chiefs of all Immigration offices will meet in Bangkok tomorrow to discuss the details of the new Immigration policy, after which they will make a much-awaited statement

Where hopfully they will come out and say" After consideration with my colleagues. We have decided to stop the border runners, but for those carrying a tourist visa recieved from an other country. They will be ok to stay." Or words along those lines.

[lapamita]

property development industries

the next crisis in tourist areas is already there

i want to sell 3 condos with 20% discount to last weeks price

sure i am not the only one !!!!!

i would even not buy at a 50% discount under current circumstances

[LOS NICK]

total discrimination of the under 50 retired person looking to make thailand their retirement home.

limit voa....limit tourist visa..do away with the 3million investment visa..

its a bloody mess.

[JonnieB]

Apparently, for the under 50 cashed-up single guy, the options are two: (1) Get married. This is probably the cheapest and least pain in the butt option (as long as your chosen is low-maintenance). As I have lived here 5+ years, the nitelife scene is really deminimus to my reasons for staying here so maybe I will finally have to bite the bullet. Far more important is the generally friendly people (jing-jing), the low cost of living, and fairly good infrustructure and health care. (2) The other option I guess as some people have mentioned is to form a legit company and do some kind of small business or consulting or something and along with that get a WP. However, many report that this is very much a pain in the arse process, expensive, and maybe in the end you may not get a 1-year renewal visa extension anyway. Seems sorta high-risk option.

Question: If one does the marriage thing and it goes tits-up at some point, would your 1-year extension based on that marriage be non-renewable when it expires? I would assume so and one would be unable to obtain another 1-year extension of a non-imm visa based on marriage until and unless one got remarried!!!

Can anyone think of any other options I have missed?

[onlooker]

Why does it appear to be such a hardship for anyone who is under 50 and has some omney in the bank to simply get a 12 month multi entry Non Imm O visa which require nothing more than completing a couple of forms, apassport photo and a few thousand baht. Messing around with 30 day visas never made any sense at all to people in this situation.

[Backpack_thailand]

Apparently, for the under 50 cashed-up single guy, the options are two: (1) Get married. This is probably the cheapest and least pain in the butt option (as long as your chosen is low-maintenance). As I have lived here 5+ years, the nitelife scene is really deminimus to my reasons for staying here so maybe I will finally have to bite the bullet. Far more important is the generally friendly people (jing-jing), the low cost of living, and fairly good infrustructure and health care. (2) The other option I guess as some people have mentioned is to form a legit company and do some kind of small business or consulting or something and along with that get a WP. However, many report that this is very much a pain in the arse process, expensive, and maybe in the end you may not get a 1-year renewal visa extension anyway. Seems sorta high-risk option.

Question: If one does the marriage thing and it goes tits-up at some point, would your 1-year extension based on that marriage be non-renewable when it expires? I would assume so and one would be unable to obtain another 1-year extension of a non-imm visa based on marriage until and unless one got remarried!!!

Can anyone think of any other options I have missed?

Leave. Go somewhere you would be made to feel wanted and welcome!

I'm sure you wouldn't be the only one!

[The Coder]

What are they dreaming of here? I don't see how this new rule will deter anyone. All eliminating double/triple really means is they have to deal with 2x or 3x the workload as people will just show up there every 3 months instead of every 6 or 9. And they are bound to get REALLY busy on top of that as the visarun noose is tightened in the coming months. This rule does not seem to make any sense--why are they making things hard for themselves? If visa runners can tolerate sitting on a bus 1 day a month, they aren't gonna mind switching to a 2 day trip to penang every 3 months. This is not a deterrent!

Here is another scenario: get a tourist visa and extend to 3 months, then do 30 day border run bus for 3 months, then repeat again and again.

The result of this new restriction simply shoots the consulate in the foot. As long as they allow back to back tourist visas, they should issue a double/triple entry and get it over with. There is less overhead and the thai govt gets all the cash up front. They don't stand to gain anything and they are gonna be swamped.

[JonnieB]

To my knowledge, the Non-Imm O visas are issued prusent to various lets call them sub-catagories (as the name implies, they are "other" visas for situations that don't fall neatly into one of the other visa classes (B or T). The situations include being a student, a monk, studying to be a monk, marrying a thai national, being a missionary, etc, however, I don't recall any of the "other" situations qualifying for this visa being someone not-yet 50, financially self-supporting from non-thai sources and wishing to reside in thailand. If I am wrong in this, I would love for someone to corect me. If anyone out there as applied for a non-imm O visa on the basis of basically the cretirea of the "retirement" extension but not yet being 50 years old it would be great news. However, I have never run into any such mention.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

What are they dreaming of here? I don't see how this new rule will deter anyone. All eliminating double/triple really means is they have to deal with 2x or 3x the workload as people will just show up there every 3 months instead of every 6 or 9. And they are bound to get REALLY busy on top of that as the visarun noose is tightened in the coming months. This rule does not seem to make any sense--why are they making things hard for themselves? If visa runners can tolerate sitting on a bus 1 day a month, they aren't gonna mind switching to a 2 day trip to penang every 3 months. This is not a deterrent!

Here is another scenario: get a tourist visa and extend to 3 months, then do 30 day border run bus for 3 months, then repeat again and again.

The result of this new restriction simply shoots the consulate in the foot. As long as they allow back to back tourist visas, they should issue a double/triple entry and get it over with. There is less overhead and the thai govt gets all the cash up front. They don't stand to gain anything and they are gonna be swamped.

this is provided they let people get back to back tourist visa's. Also I think you can fly into Thailand and get a VOA and since it was not a land crossing then it does not count toward the 3/90 rule

[lapamita]

i am now 42, i was never married and no kids.

i was staying with thaigirl 7 years, and we enjoyed like 3 month europe or 4 with extencion,after we go back thialnd and so on. in 2000 the embassy not issued visa more for here, because they said not tourist we are living together, and i have to promisse to put our relation on legal base.

i refused, and the following no visa after already get more than 10.

this was the point, where i considerd to stay in thailand for easy lifestyle.,because i could afoard.

since 2004 i have new girlfriend, with a good and EASY relation.

she would married directly

but for me , not my goverment could force me to married!!!!! even not thais.

thais are lovely people ( if not think about the eliteclass, or what they think they are) but i dont think i could stay my hole life with a thailadyor asianlady,because of various difrences in living.

and a marriage is for ever,,,,or only for papper.........?????so how i can married if i now in advanc it is impossible for hole life

but married would be the easist and inexpencivest way?????

but maybe even than they require 10 mio baht sart next year

everything is possible here,,,,,and it ould not be a serious surprise if it comes

[The Coder]

this is provided they let people get back to back tourist visa's.

This consulate has always allowed this and there was no mention of it changing in this article. Since tourist visa limits would be much larger news than pulling multi-entries you would think they would have at least mentioned it if they changed something in that area.

[JonnieB]

As many (including SB) have speculated, I'm sure the next step will be to refuse multiple back-to-back tourists visas (at least from the local SE Asian embassies and consulates). Like I said before, I have no beef with the government wanting to keep control of their borders and I have no problem with them wanting everyone to be here legally (as it should be). But, if as stated, they want to crack-down on illegal and/or tax-evading farang business owners/workers (as stated in the PG article), why not just walk-in and inspect the businesses paperwork on a regular basis and see if everything is in order? Contrary to some, I really don't thing there is some Great Anti-Farang Conspiracy at work. It seems to me that Thailand (like most countries) makes a profit out of people who come here to reside and either work legally and pay taxes etc or have sufficient means that they don't have to work but just reside and consume local goods and services, i.e., retires and rich folks. That is why most countries (even Thailand) encourages such people to chose to live in their respective countries. I just think they do want to get rid of undesirables as would any country but it seems like changing visa rules and requirements is not the way to go about it. Illegal behavior or being underfunded are already deportable offenses so why not just better enforcement of existing laws and regulations? TIT

[MaiChai]

JonnieB, think you have hit the nail on the head there, could not agree more. Enforcing existing laws is the way to go. I don't think Thailand can afford to loose its income from tourism, and tightening up regulations in a country whose main income is tourism (unofficial figures) is not a smart move. Those working illigally will mostly be English teachers, and the income and reliability of work in this trade is hardly going to make anyone rich? PS: I am not an English teacher.

[MaiChai]

JonnieB, think you have hit the nail on the head there, could not agree more. Enforcing existing laws is the way to go. I don't think Thailand can afford to loose its income from tourism, and tightening up regulations in a country whose main income is tourism (unofficial figures) is not a smart move. Those working illigally will mostly be English teachers, and the income and reliability of work in this trade is hardly going to make anyone rich? PS: I am not an English teacher.

[JimsKnight]

To my knowledge, the Non-Imm O visas are issued prusent to various lets call them sub-catagories (as the name implies, they are "other" visas for situations that don't fall neatly into one of the other visa classes (B or T). The situations include being a student, a monk, studying to be a monk, marrying a thai national, being a missionary, etc, however, I don't recall any of the "other" situations qualifying for this visa being someone not-yet 50, financially self-supporting from non-thai sources and wishing to reside in thailand. If I am wrong in this, I would love for someone to corect me. If anyone out there as applied for a non-imm O visa on the basis of basically the cretirea of the "retirement" extension but not yet being 50 years old it would be great news. However, I have never run into any such mention.

You don't need to give a specific reason for the non-imm 'o' if you apply to the consulate in Hull. All Ive ever had to show was passport, photos, an address in thailand and of course the money!

The big question is if they put pressure on the consulates further afield than Penang!

I doubt if this will happen though. The current thai rulings will likely be 'localised' to penang etc. Long range consulates will be the last refuge!

[dunga1414]

I got an "O" 1-year multiple re-entry visa at the Thai consulate in Boston, Massachusetts in the USA. I also could have got the same visa at the Thai consulate in Atlanta, Georgia, USA (I didn't because of logistical reasons). It cost $125 dollars and was done in 5 minutes. I hope to do the same at a nearby consulate (Perhaps Laos, Cambodia, etc.). I am under 50. I hope this helps answer some questions and it seems easier than making border runs and trying to re-up tourist visas.

[Meg_2003]

What other countries can give Tourist Visa's other than Malaysia??

[dunga1414]

Where/What is "Hull"???

[JonnieB]

Governments sometimes implement dumb policies just to look like they are doing SOMETHING about a perceived problem (in this case illegal workers, tax avoidence, foreign criminal elements making LOS their home maybe). I only have to see my own president's War On Terror to see that that is true. Hopefully, the authorities will see how, in practice, these new policies will effect legitimate expatriate residents and also many small and not so small Thai businesses. At that point, they will likely tweak the rules or institute new visa categories to correct real injustices that pop-up in the system.

I repeat, I don't think there is any conscious policy to "get" farangs as so many automatically assume...just government officials doing what they do best...being officious

[JonnieB]

Thanks Jim and others who have reported that the non-imm O's don't require much documentation at various counselates outside SE Asia (even if Hull, GB, is a little far from my native California). I have much experience with the Penang folks and for non-imm O's they usually want a stack of paperwork...they were great for easy 3x tourist visas however.

Maybe a trip to Perth or Brisbane might be in order, however

[ramidin]

I haven't heard of any problem with a genuine tourist getting a multiple entry tourist visa in their home country. Over the last couple of years, Penang, Vientiane, etc have stopped giving out multiple entry 'B' visa unless you have a work permit. Looks like gradually it is going to harder to get long term visas in 'close' locations.

A genuine tourist can still get a multiple entry tourist visa in their home consulate, and the 41 exempt countries can still come in for up to 90 days without a visa. The perpetual tourists are the ones affected.

I tried a multipe entry Non B three month Non-B in KL about two years ago, and got a single entry for three months (no WP then).

Now, once a year I make sure I plan to be in the UK for a week around the time of visa renewal, and have (touch wood) not had any problems, visa issued in two days by post, or same day in person.

Looks like he current way things are going is that long stay visas will be Non-B, Non-0, retirement and marriage.

And, (my opinion - prepared to be convinced otherwise) it is not too far away that multiple O and B visas will only be issued in your home country, and that you can enter LOS but have to show a valid return ticket (guaranteed repatriation).

I flew Singapore airlines recently from London, to SIN and then connected to BKK,they checked my visa (happens to be a Non- 'B'), and asked to see my return ticket (which was on Thai airways). I explained I had a WP( I am not a teacher, and have a real Thai company with real Thai employees, premises inspected by Labour Ministry etc), however SIA said they were not sure whether I needed return ticket or not, fortunately I had it with me.

I think the writing is on the wall, LOS is a developing country, and as countries develop governments become more sophisticated, so expect photo at immigration (rumour finger prints too!), along with pressure to do background checks, etc.

It is only going to get a harder, if they actually enforce all this, the message is clear, get legal - get a visa.

Edited September 14, 2006 by ramidin

[Indifferent]

Dad de dum, dum,dum...another one bites the dust!

[drummer]

Certainly there is no Anti-Farang Conspiracy, at least in capital letters. However, you would be hard pressed to say that there are no isolationist, populist tendencies here. Populist politicians often empoy an anti-foreign sentiment. its really, really common worldwide, panculturally.

If some politicians want to kick out some farang for some political captial, then that de facto is a anti-farang conspiracy. By definition. Its certainyl not all thai politicians meeting in a back room to screw whitey, but it is a few politicians getting together to pass anti-farang policies.

Anyway,

Penang denying multiple entry TVs, though, is for me a sign that they are very very serious about this and fully plan to implement this policy as planned. I am fully planning to leave now. Thailand is great and all, but my home isn't bad either. The populist aspect of this is troublesome. Just historically speaking, bad things happen to foreigners sometimes. Maybe not this year, but...

Anyway, it is a really really bad move, and directly affects my own ability to get a job, legal or not. Just so anyone cares, it is virtually impossible to get a halfway decent job as a musician for anywhere but a major company, such as a hotel. Hilton, Sheraton, Novatel, etc. But these largely cater to farang, who are likely to be around in fewer numbers this next year, meaning a lot of jobs will dry up for me.

Maybe China or Vietnam... they're booming ...

[Chua]

Where is the HUGE UPROAR from Thai landlords, owners of hotels,longstay bungalows, visa run companies, etc?!? This is going to mean an INCREDIBLE LOSS of business for them and the Thai economy in general. They just must not be publicizing this to the general Thai public (Bangkok Post is English only) and most landlords I know barely speak it. Farrang out there, please start spreading the word to your Thai friends, especially those in the rental and tourism industries... only through their complaints and uproar is there any chance that the government will realize the MASSIVE MISTAKE they are making with this non-sense.

Does the Thai government actually think they are going to make more in taxes on work permits and marriage visas then the BILLIONS OF BAHT their economy will loose if the farrang population stops spending at least 50% their money here? Also, the reason many foreigner laborers are here is because THAI companies are illegally hiring these people for agriculture, construction, and other undesirable menial tasks that most Thais don't want to do, and certainly not for the extremely low wages they pay. Removing the low cost labor force will only serve to drive up labor costs, and thus retail prices for basic commodities, which will increase core inflation -- something Thailand cannot afford. If they really wanted to address the problem they should crack down on these companies which are hiring illegal workers.

I also whole-heartedly agree with the person who said before that the requirements of the retirement visa (800K Baht) are sufficient to ensure non-working, financially stable, and desirable status WITHOUT THE NEED TO BE OVER 50 YEARS OLD. Why does it matter how old one is? If you have that much money in Thailand, why would you need to work anyway?

[Crossy]

Where/What is "Hull"???

It's a city in the north east of England!

[zeusbheld]

this is provided they let people get back to back tourist visa's.

This consulate has always allowed this and there was no mention of it changing in this article. Since tourist visa limits would be much larger news than pulling multi-entries you would think they would have at least mentioned it if they changed something in that area.

bear in mind that the wording of the latest offiical announcement gives the individual officers room for judgment. in other words, they could potentially refuse back to back visas without making an announcement.

[zeusbheld]

I haven't heard of any problem with a genuine tourist getting a multiple entry tourist visa in their home country.

it's always been capricious and up to the judgment of the consulate; i was refused a multiple entry visa in new york once. at that time i hadn't even spent a lot of time in thailand. since then i've never had a problem with any thai immigration anywhere.

always keep in mind that it always has been, and under the new guidelines will continue to be, at the discretion of the issuing officer.

[travlling]

Why does it appear to be such a hardship for anyone who is under 50 and has some omney in the bank to simply get a 12 month multi entry Non Imm O visa which require nothing more than completing a couple of forms, apassport photo and a few thousand baht. Messing around with 30 day visas never made any sense at all to people in this situation.

I agree, but not every consulate will give out Non Imm "O" visa's. besides what would you use for a justification? If you go by the immigration website, the choices are fairly limited.....being younger and stable and shunned upon, makes me think of the Philippines recently.