Thailand UMTS frequency

[Anthony5]

I understand that 3G is distributed over the UMTS frequency.

Dtac and Truemove use the 850UMTS frequency and as of lately the 2100Mhz frequency. The 2100Mhz signal is rather poor at my location, but I have a for 4 years a Dtac dongle ( Huawei E173) that supports 3G over 850Mhz and my router shows that I have an acceptable signal strength.

I now went to look for a new aircard on Ebay, and there is virtually no aircard that supports UMTS on 850Mhz, they are all 900/2100 Mhz.

They however all support 2G over the 850Mhz frequency.

I googled the spec of the Huawei E173, and to my surprise that also doesn't support UMTS on 850Mhz Are the Huawei E173 dongles used by Truemove and Dtac, custom made dongles or is 3G here distributed over the GSM frequency?

http://www.3g-modem-wiki.com/page/Huawei+E173

So how do I actually get my 3G signal? Is an aircard with the following spec usable for me to receive 3G, taken into account that UMTS 2100Mhz signal is weak?

Frequency 4G : LTE FDD DD800 / 900/1800/2100/2600 MHz (LTE B1 B3 B7 B8 B20)

Frequency 3G : UMTS 900/2100 MHz

Frequency 2G : GSM 850/900/1800/1900 MHz

[RichCor]

Try not to get lost...

Wikipedia: UMTS-FDD (Universal Mobile Telecommunications System - Frequency-Division Duplexing) along with W-CDMA or WCDMA (Wideband Code Division Multiple Access) is an air interface standard found in 3G mobile telecommunications networks. It supports conventional cellular voice, text and MMS services, but can also carry data at high speeds, allowing mobile operators to deliver higher bandwidth applications including streaming and broadband Internet access.

It is the next generation update to GSM/GPRS/EDGE 2G Voice/Data network.

Wikipedia: High Speed Packet Access (HSPA) is an amalgamation of two mobile telephony protocols, High Speed Downlink Packet Access (HSDPA) and High Speed Uplink Packet Access (HSUPA), that extends and improves the performance of existing 3G mobile telecommunication networks utilizing the WCDMA protocols. A further improved 3GPP standard.

The upgrade to HSDPA is often just a software update for most WCDMA networks.

Evolved HSPA (also known as HSPA Evolution, HSPA+) is a wireless broadband standard defined in 3GPP release 7 and 8 of the WCDMA specification provides extensions to the existing HSPA definitions and is therefore backward-compatible all the way to the original Release 99 WCDMA network.

Wikipedia: LTE, an abbreviation for Long-Term Evolution, commonly marketed as 4G LTE, is a standard for wireless communication of high-speed data for mobile phones and data terminals. It is based on the GSM/EDGE and UMTS/HSPA network technologies, increasing the capacity and speed using a different radio interface together with core network improvements. The standard is developed by the 3GPP (3rd Generation Partnership Project).

LTE is the natural upgrade path for carriers with both GSM/UMTS networks and CDMA2000 [CDMA, 1xRTT, 1xEV-DO used in the US] networks.

The different LTE frequencies and bands used in different countries will mean that only multi-band phones will be able to use LTE in all countries where it is supported.

But, basically: GSM/GPRS/EDGE is 2G, then UMTS/WCDMA is 3G, HSPA (HSUPA/HSDPA) is 3.5G, HSPA+ is 3.9G and LTE is 4G. Speed enhancements as you go along.

So, all the terms in Bold are sometimes used interchangeably in the technical specs of mobile devices to indicate the type of service to which they are compatible.

(*) Even though LTE is technically compatible with prior technology, LTE locks out communicating with older technologies because the older devices don't have the signal rate necessary to maintain network service integrity. So LTE sits alone.

[Anthony5]

Try not to get lost...

Wikipedia: UMTS-FDD (Universal Mobile Telecommunications System - Frequency-Division Duplexing) along with W-CDMA or WCDMA (Wideband Code Division Multiple Access) is an air interface standard found in 3G mobile telecommunications networks. It supports conventional cellular voice, text and MMS services, but can also carry data at high speeds, allowing mobile operators to deliver higher bandwidth applications including streaming and broadband Internet access.

It is the next generation update to GSM/GPRS/EDGE 2G Voice/Data network.

Wikipedia: High Speed Packet Access (HSPA) is an amalgamation of two mobile telephony protocols, High Speed Downlink Packet Access (HSDPA) and High Speed Uplink Packet Access (HSUPA), that extends and improves the performance of existing 3G mobile telecommunication networks utilizing the WCDMA protocols. A further improved 3GPP standard.

The upgrade to HSDPA is often just a software update for most WCDMA networks.

Evolved HSPA (also known as HSPA Evolution, HSPA+) is a wireless broadband standard defined in 3GPP release 7 and 8 of the WCDMA specification provides extensions to the existing HSPA definitions and is therefore backward-compatible all the way to the original Release 99 WCDMA network.

Wikipedia: LTE, an abbreviation for Long-Term Evolution, commonly marketed as 4G LTE, is a standard for wireless communication of high-speed data for mobile phones and data terminals. It is based on the GSM/EDGE and UMTS/HSPA network technologies, increasing the capacity and speed using a different radio interface together with core network improvements. The standard is developed by the 3GPP (3rd Generation Partnership Project).

LTE is the natural upgrade path for carriers with both GSM/UMTS networks and CDMA2000 [CDMA, 1xRTT, 1xEV-DO used in the US] networks.

The different LTE frequencies and bands used in different countries will mean that only multi-band phones will be able to use LTE in all countries where it is supported.

But, basically: GSM/GPRS/EDGE is 2G, then UMTS/WCDMA is 3G, HSPA (HSUPA/HSDPA) is 3.5G, HSPA+ is 3.9G and LTE is 4G. Speed enhancements as you go along.

So, all the terms in Bold are sometimes used interchangeably in the technical specs of mobile devices to indicate the type of service to which they are compatible.

(*) Even though LTE is technically compatible with prior technology, LTE locks out communicating with older technologies because the older devices don't have the signal rate necessary to maintain network service integrity. So LTE sits alone.

I wouldn't have mind if you had replied to the OP with yes or no.

But I understand it is NO.

[eeeya]

850 MHz UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+/DC-HSPA+ 3G Telstra Next G 3G network covering 99% of the Australian population

google for a telstra Next G compatable card

[Anthony5]

850 MHz UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+/DC-HSPA+ 3G Telstra Next G 3G network covering 99% of the Australian population

google for a telstra Next G compatable card

I'm looking for a 4G card that supports 3G on 850Mhz as well.

A google for telstra Next G compatable card gets me 3G aircards double the price of what is available in Thailand, and the LTE enabled like the Sierra wireless 320u support only 1800/2600 LTE.

If you should have a link please post it here.

I should have linked to my other thread as well.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/833653-4g-frequencies/

Edited June 18, 2015 by Anthony5

[RichCor]

< snip >

So how do I actually get my 3G signal? Is an aircard with the following spec usable for me to receive 3G, taken into account that UMTS 2100Mhz signal is weak?

Your Huawei E173 is probably like this one, found on TotalAirCard

HSDPA/UMTS 850/1900/2100 MHz (3G on MY CAT, TRUE H, DTAC, TOT 3G, i-mobile, i-Kool, IEC, Mojo, 365)

So, 850 or 2100. Just as you thought.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

In layman's terms, I believe, it comes down to you needing to match up,,,

1, the mobile service provider you want to use (apparently DTAC), with

2. the frequency bands for 3G or LTE that they may be offering where you live, with

3, the available 3G or LTE frequency bands that your hardware device can receive.

Right now, I believe, DTAC's network is offering 3G service on both the 850 Mhz and 2100 Mhz bands, and possibly 1800 Mhz as well. So to use that DTAC 3G service, your hardware device needs to support one of those frequencies, and in your case, you want 850 Mhz.

The 900/2100 Mhz 3G band combo is a common device offering in Asia, and was what AIS used to offer, since AIS was using the 900 Mhz band. But True and DTAC have long been 850 and 2100 Mhz 3G, so usually in the stores, you'd have two different flavors of devices: one group at 900/2100 Mhz for AIS, and a separate group with 850/2100 Mhz geared to True and DTAC.

Fortunately, or unfortunately in terms of confusion, that's all going to gradually change as all the main Thai mobile carriers begin moving more toward LTE, which has its own entirely separate set of different frequency bands. So, having an 850 Mhz 3G capable device doesn't give you access to 850 Mhz LTE. Your device has to specifically be enabled for LTE bands in addition to 3G.

And from one of Rich's posts on this subject in a different thread the other day, it seems that Thailand is hardly even settled yet looking to the future of just what carriers are going to be offering LTE services on what bands, since some of the frequency auctions for future LTE bands haven't even occurred yet.

But if you're going to stick with DTAC, it would seem that looking for hardware that supports both 850 Mhz 3G and 850 Mhz LTE would be a good bet moving forward.

http://www.dtac.co.th/en/4g/

In looking at the DTAC website right now, though, I don't see them directly selling any dongles, just phones and tablets.

in looking at True Move H's website, they're offering both 3G and LTE Aircards (sold out of the LTE version right now). And both of those are 850 and 2100 Mhz only for 3G, though I suspect they're locked to use on True's network.

http://store.truecorp.co.th/product/detail/1401/AirCard_3G_7.2_Mbps.

Edited June 18, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[bamnutsak]

DTAC has GSM (2G) 1800 until 2018, but they may give back some of that to the NBTC.

DTAC also has 850 MHz which they use for both GSM and 3G.

And DTAC has 2100 MHz which they use for 3G and LTE.

That said, there's a lot of jockeying going on now, so who knows what might happen in the future.

http://www.telecomasia.net/blog/content/thailands-torturous-road-4g

http://www.slideshare.net/yozzo1/the-4g-lte-auction-in-thailand (See slide #10 for spectrum details)

http://www.slideshare.net/yozzo1/thailands-telecom-market-information-q1-2015

Edited June 19, 2015 by bamnutsak

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Huawei E5573

Category: LTE Cat4

* 4G FDD-LTE Netwrok Frequency: 800/850/900/1800/2100/2600MHz

* 3G UMTS/DC-HSPA+: 850/900/2100MHz

* 2G GSM/EDGE/GPRS: 850/900/1800/1900MHz

* LTE Download speed to 150Mbps and Upload speed to 50mbps

* Support up to 10 users to access internet

* Wi-Fi 802.11 a/b/g/n

* 2 X 2 MIMO, WiFi 2.4G/5G, WiFi offload

* 1500mAh battery, up to 4 hours working time

* Compatible with Windows, Mac OS

You can pick them up for as little as 1000 baht in the UK. But I guess that you aren't in the UK.

[Anthony5]

Huawei E5573

Category: LTE Cat4

* 4G FDD-LTE Netwrok Frequency: 800/850/900/1800/2100/2600MHz

* 3G UMTS/DC-HSPA+: 850/900/2100MHz

* 2G GSM/EDGE/GPRS: 850/900/1800/1900MHz

* LTE Download speed to 150Mbps and Upload speed to 50mbps

* Support up to 10 users to access internet

* Wi-Fi 802.11 a/b/g/n

* 2 X 2 MIMO, WiFi 2.4G/5G, WiFi offload

* 1500mAh battery, up to 4 hours working time

* Compatible with Windows, Mac OS

You can pick them up for as little as 1000 baht in the UK. But I guess that you aren't in the UK.

No I ain't in the UK and on Ebay the cheapest one goes for 2525 Baht, and it isn't even an aircard but a hotspot with completely different frquencies.

Huawei E5573 4G Mobile Hotspot Technical Specifications:

* Category: LTE Cat4

* 4G FDD-LTE Netwrok Frequency: (B1/B3)1800/2100MHz

4G TDD-LTE Netwrok Frequency: (B40/B41)2500/2300MHz

* 3G UMTS/DC-HSPA+: 900/2100MHz

* 2G GSM/EDGE/GPRS: 850/900/1800/1900MHz

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Mine is the HUAWEI E5573s-320

You can connect it to your equipment via USB if you don't wish to use it as a stand-alone unit.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Jiu-Jitsu

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

DTAC also has 850 MHz which they use for both GSM and 3G.

And DTAC has 2100 MHz which they use for 3G and LTE.

In the limited areas where DTAC has LTE right now, are they only doing it via 2100 Mhz, or 850 and 2100 Mhz LTE both?

From their website, it kind of makes it sound like it's available on both bands...

Experience the extraordinary with 4G technology on dtac, the only network in Thailand operating on 3 smart networks, running simultaneously at 1800 MHZ, 850 MHZ and 2100 MHZ frequencies. This ultimately makes dtac the network with the widest bandwidth, providing better and more effective communication, clearer voice calls, smooth and uninterrupted service for Live HD VDO streaming and multiplayer gaming.

http://www.dtac.co.th/en/4g/

Well, I guess the Slideshare link you posted above contains an answer:

DTAC currently utilizes 5 MHz of bandwidth on the 2100 MHz spectrum to offer 4G service, with the remainder being used for 3G. The company currently uses all 25MHz of its bandwidth on the 1800MHz spectrum for 2G cellular service, while it uses the 850MHz spectrum to provide 3G. DTAC has 600,000 4G subscribers

The thing I remember reading, though, in one of the recent articles on this is that supposedly, the NBTC's policy is to NOT tell the mobile companies what kinds of service they can offer on which bands... In other words, once a mobile carrier wins the rights to use a particular mobile band, it's supposedly up to them what kind of service (2G, 3G, LTE) they want to offer on it, and they can change as they see fit, supposedly.

Edited June 19, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Anthony5]

DTAC also has 850 MHz which they use for both GSM and 3G.

And DTAC has 2100 MHz which they use for 3G and LTE.

In the limited areas where DTAC has LTE right now, are they only doing it via 2100 Mhz, or 850 and 2100 Mhz LTE both?

From their website, it kind of makes it sound like it's available on both bands...

Experience the extraordinary with 4G technology on dtac, the only network in Thailand operating on 3 smart networks, running simultaneously at 1800 MHZ, 850 MHZ and 2100 MHZ frequencies. This ultimately makes dtac the network with the widest bandwidth, providing better and more effective communication, clearer voice calls, smooth and uninterrupted service for Live HD VDO streaming and multiplayer gaming.

http://www.dtac.co.th/en/4g/

Dtac is doing the LTE on 2100Mhz only.

You should read the announcement in the link as

dtac, the only network in Thailand operating on 3 smart networks, running simultaneously at 1800 MHZ, 850 MHZ and 2100 MHZ frequencies.

Doesn't mean they do 4G on the 3 frequencies. I think the 1800 Mhz is recerved for 2G only, 3G on 850 and 2100Mhz and 4G on 2100Mhz.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Anthony5

[RichCor]

The thing I remember reading, though, in one of the recent articles on this is that supposedly, the NBTC's policy is to NOT tell the mobile companies what kinds of service they can offer on which bands... In other words, once a mobile carrier wins the rights to use a particular mobile band, it's supposedly up to them what kind of service (2G, 3G, LTE) they want to offer on it, and they can change as they see fit, supposedly.

Take a gander at the other article he posted...

Thailand's torturous road to 4G

June 15, 2015 - Don Sambandaraksa

The NBTC licenses are a new thing.

Previously it is/was CAT/TOT concessions. The article discusses that mess, and the problems associated with it.

If the frequency allocation is from a previous CAT/TOT concession then CAT/TOT is preventing them (DTAC/AIS) from offering higher speeds and stepping on CAT/TOT profits.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I thought this was one of the more interesting charts from the slideshow linked above... Look at the coverage percentages for each of the three main carriers in the different categories, 2G, 3G and LTE... with

--AIS, the No. 1 carrier in marketshare, being nowhere with LTE right now, but best for 2 and 3G.

--DTAC having the worst 3G coverage footprint, and far behind True for LTE, and

--True having the best LTE footprint, but lagging in 2G coverage.

The other slides also seem to kind of suggest that the main LTE bands for Thailand moving into the future are likely to be 850 / 900 / 1800 and 2100... But who knows....

Edited June 19, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[RichCor]

There's a lot of potential, given the current spectrum, but I believe you're right.

2300 and 2600 *might* be utilized as backhaul, or granted back re-licensed. I'm not hopeful.

[bamnutsak]

--AIS, the No. 1 carrier in marketshare, being nowhere with LTE right now, but best for 2 and 3G.

FYI, AIS will lose their GSM900 concession (13,690 towers/19,000 base-stations in 3 months). They'll need more spectrum sooner rather than later. They are actively migrating customers over to 3G/2100 with free handset deals. TOT was scheduled to assume "ownership" and "operation" of that network but not sure if that's still the case. The NBTC, created/empowered by the abrogated 2007 "Constitution", may have the "authority" (if anyone really has any legal authority here) to reclaim that spectrum and then auction it off.

It is sad that, as is almost always the case, the people/country/economy/education here suffer as their "betters" decide how to divvy the bulk of the pie.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The above slideshow includes the following page on AIS's plans and intended use for the 900 and 1800 bands.

[casualbiker]

The above slideshow includes the following page on AIS's plans and intended use for the 900 and 1800 bands.

PS0719.jpg

5mhz for 3g!!!!!! I'm no expert but that seems insufficient.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As noted above, AIS for a long time now has been pushing their customers to move to 3G on their 2100 Mhz service, where they have a relatively recently awarded long-term license...

And then, it seems from above, their future plan is for 4G on 1800 Mhz....

So getting 5 Mhz of bandwith for 3G on the 900 Mhz band would be complementary to those other bands/services.

Edited June 20, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Anthony5]

Guess I found my desired aircard which will serve me for the future. Other suggestions still welcome

Model: ZTE MF821/MF821D Type: LTE USB Modem(Internet Key) Mobile Networks: LTE FDD/UMTS/EDGE/GSM 4G Bands: LTE 1800/2100/2600 MHz 3G Bands: UMTS 850/900/2100 MHz 2G Bands: GSM 850/900/1800/1900 MHz

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Guess I found my desired aircard which will serve me for the future. Other suggestions still welcome

Model: ZTE MF821/MF821D Type: LTE USB Modem(Internet Key) Mobile Networks: LTE FDD/UMTS/EDGE/GSM 4G Bands: LTE 1800/2100/2600 MHz 3G Bands: UMTS 850/900/2100 MHz 2G Bands: GSM 850/900/1800/1900 MHz

We've been over this before. Get a MiFi as indicated earlier, not a USB modem.

[Anthony5]

Guess I found my desired aircard which will serve me for the future. Other suggestions still welcome

Model: ZTE MF821/MF821D Type: LTE USB Modem(Internet Key) Mobile Networks: LTE FDD/UMTS/EDGE/GSM 4G Bands: LTE 1800/2100/2600 MHz 3G Bands: UMTS 850/900/2100 MHz 2G Bands: GSM 850/900/1800/1900 MHz

We've been over this before. Get a MiFi as indicated earlier, not a USB modem.

Why would i need a MIFI if my house has wired Ethernet in every room?

[Satcommlee]

UMTS, that brings back fond memories... It's all since been reclassified, advance your googling by a few years..

[Anthony5]

UMTS, that brings back fond memories... It's all since been reclassified, advance your googling by a few years..

Excuse me, but maybe you can enlighten me? Is there a more advanced 3G standard in Thailand?

What is UMTS?

UMTS is one of the Third Generation (3G) mobile systems being developed within the ITU's IMT-2000 framework. It is a realisation of a new generation of broadband multi-media mobile telecommunications technology.

[Satcommlee]

UMTS, that brings back fond memories... It's all since been reclassified, advance your googling by a few years..

Excuse me, but maybe you can enlighten me? Is there a more advanced 3G standard in Thailand?

What is UMTS?

UMTS is one of the Third Generation (3G) mobile systems being developed within the ITU's IMT-2000 framework. It is a realisation of a new generation of broadband multi-media mobile telecommunications technology.

UMTS is a 12 year old technology and most regional administrations have re-allocated the band... UTMS has since been replaced by HSPDA... commonly referred to by that nice "H" symbol you see on your phone.

[Anthony5]

UMTS, that brings back fond memories... It's all since been reclassified, advance your googling by a few years..

Excuse me, but maybe you can enlighten me? Is there a more advanced 3G standard in Thailand?

What is UMTS?

UMTS is one of the Third Generation (3G) mobile systems being developed within the ITU's IMT-2000 framework. It is a realisation of a new generation of broadband multi-media mobile telecommunications technology.

UMTS is a 12 year old technology and most regional administrations have re-allocated the band... UTMS has since been replaced by HSPDA... commonly referred to by that nice "H" symbol you see on your phone.

Could it be that you are just hair splitting, because WCDMA, HSDPA, HSUPA, HSPA+ are all improvements based on UMTS, and the aircard manufacturers are all calling it UMTS as a general instead of all the umpteen newer standards.

ZTE MF821 4G LTE USB Modem Specification:

* Technology: LTE, HSPA +, HSUPA, HSDPA, UMTS, EDGE, GPRS, GSM

Edited July 8, 2015 by Anthony5

[Satcommlee]

UMTS, that brings back fond memories... It's all since been reclassified, advance your googling by a few years..

Excuse me, but maybe you can enlighten me? Is there a more advanced 3G standard in Thailand?

What is UMTS?

UMTS is one of the Third Generation (3G) mobile systems being developed within the ITU's IMT-2000 framework. It is a realisation of a new generation of broadband multi-media mobile telecommunications technology.

UMTS is a 12 year old technology and most regional administrations have re-allocated the band... UTMS has since been replaced by HSPDA... commonly referred to by that nice "H" symbol you see on your phone.

Could it be that you are just hair splitting, because WCDMA, HSDPA, HSUPA, HSPA+ are all improvements based on UMTS, and the aircard manufacturers are all calling it UMTS as a general instead of all the umpteen newer standards.

Did we meet at the ITU conference in Doha last year by any chance?

[Anthony5]

Did we meet at the ITU conference in Doha last year by any chance?

No, I never fly jet airways, so don't need to look for some time to spend on a stopover in Doha

[RichCor]

UMTS, that brings back fond memories... It's all since been reclassified, advance your googling by a few years..

Excuse me, but maybe you can enlighten me? Is there a more advanced 3G standard in Thailand?

What is UMTS?

UMTS is one of the Third Generation (3G) mobile systems being developed within the ITU's IMT-2000 framework. It is a realisation of a new generation of broadband multi-media mobile telecommunications technology.

UMTS is a 12 year old technology and most regional administrations have re-allocated the band... UTMS has since been replaced by HSPDA... commonly referred to by that nice "H" symbol you see on your phone.

The 3GPP people write:

Just as GSM has become synonymous with the whole mobile system for 2G, UMTS is 3G, which includes the whole of the W-CDMA and HSPA specifications catalogue.

UMTS is an umbrella term for the third generation radio technologies developed within 3GPP.

3GPP is now working on Long Term Evolution (LTE), which will build on UMTS, as the Industry looks beyond 3G.

So tell the 3GPP to stop calling it that. Then tell the mobile phone manufacturers to stop referring to 3G/3.5G/3.9G using "UMTS/HSPA" or "WCMDA" label.

Some acronyms just won't die.