Mass shooting at Charleston church in South Carolina leaves 9 dead

[Wat dee]

There is more than ample evidence of the killer's extremist racism. His appearance is interesting. Kind of a slight boy. Not scary but perhaps creepy. Him without the gun ... no power.

In most of these shootings - the most common characteristic of the perpetrators is mental disturbance - they were/are on psychologically mind altering prescriptions drugs (for a reason). They may have just changed drugs or increased or decreased the dosage, or had just gotten off the drugs (against the advice not to) or were mixing and matching drugs against all advice. These nutcases were most all ne'er-do-wells, not socially integrated, more often loners living in a fantasy world (often in their parents basement) - if not outright delusional.

Calling this current nutcase a racist - while technically accurate - it is only a surface manifestation of his psychological derangement. These nutcases are killers not just because some idiot mother or father allowed then access to a gun or even gave them a gun... they became killers due to a flawed and failed system in America that REFUSES to confine sick minded people mostly do to Political Correctness and fear of legal backlash for attempting to have them confined in a mental institution. The current American system of "We can't say that" assure that nutcase will appear and do damage - maiming and killing - when they - in their deranged way - take action to become noticed and 'important' for the first time in their miserable lives.

Parents of these mentally disturbed people remind me of Pit Bull Dog owners - he would never do anything like that -- he is such a sweet fellow - as animal control hauls the Pit Bull off in a locked truck for ripping the face of a child or some older neighbor. Willful Blindness and Denial on the part of the family - the school teachers and administrators and juvenile authorities. And the same Willful Blindness and Denial on the part of state legislatures for not creating laws that allow forced confinement and treatment over a long term for people who show obvious signs of future violent behavior. It can be spotted, it can be measured - the violent potential of disaffected future sociopaths can be identified and dealt with - BUT NO The American society cannot 'Say That' - IT IS JUDGMENTAL... it will hurt his feelings, it will shunt his future life ...

All the knee jerk Control Freaks in America can say and do is tell 100 million law abiding Americans - 'We are going to take your guns' - but cannot tell 10,000 nuttier than a fruit cake men with childlike minds that 'You Can't Do That' ... we are going to put you in a place to help you - even if you do not want to go and you are going to stay there for years if necessary. We did get two of these nutcases off the streets and forcibly confined... the man who shot and killed John Lennon and the man who shot and wounded President Ronald Reagan. Both deranged mentally ill people of the same mental profile of these nutcases pictured here, Yes - they were and still are confined but too late ... Always too late because America cannot face the fact of the need - the demand for forcible confinement.

These 'men' are human garbage - but cannot be put in a bin until they have rotted to the core.

I can understand all that hate if his barber was black.

[Chicog]

From here:

https://reason.com/blog/2015/06/22/obama-wonders-if-dylann-roof-who-passed

"Roof bought the .45-caliber Glock Model 41 handgun he used in the church attack from a Charleston gun store in April, shortly after his 21st birthday (which was on April 3), with money his father had given him as a present. That means he passed a background check."

Bold printed from me, because the author reaches that conclusions too easy. Not everything is done the way it should be.

So which is true?

Dylann Roof, the man suspected of fatally shooting nine people at a historic African American church in South Carolina on Wednesday, was given a gun by his father as a 21st birthday present in April, his uncle told Reuters on Thursday.

Here's NBC's version:

http://news.yahoo.com/charleston-church-gunman-bought-pistol-near-home-nbc-215143802.html

[F430murci]

Oh dear God, did anyone else see Obama give the Eulogy. Holly cow. WTH was that?

The sad part is, if a white minister got gunned down by a black man, he would not even utter a single word. Our President is one of the biggest racist in the US. Everything about his eulogy was predicated upon race and trying to connect everything he wants and his agendas to God's will and God's grace. He is a master manipulator. Thank go his term will be over soon.

Dude looked like he had Parkinson's at one pint.

[Jingthing]

Oh dear God, did anyone else see Obama give the Eulogy. Holly cow. WTH was that?

The sad part is, if a white minister got gunned down by a black man, he would not even utter a single word. Our President is one of the biggest racist in the US. Everything about his eulogy was predicated upon race and trying to connect everything he wants and his agendas to God's will and God's grace. He is a master manipulator. Thank go his term will be over soon.

Dude looked like he had Parkinson's at one pint.

Sounds like you're projecting.

[F430murci]

Oh dear God, did anyone else see Obama give the Eulogy. Holly cow. WTH was that?

The sad part is, if a white minister got gunned down by a black man, he would not even utter a single word. Our President is one of the biggest racist in the US. Everything about his eulogy was predicated upon race and trying to connect everything he wants and his agendas to God's will and God's grace. He is a master manipulator. Thank go his term will be over soon.

Dude looked like he had Parkinson's at one pint.

Sounds like you're projecting.

Projecting what? What happened is horrible and done by horrible person. Obama projected the acts of one horrible person to the majority of Americans. So who is really projecting.

[Jingthing]

He did no such thing.

[Publicus]

Sounds like the bubbas are jumping up and down with arms flapping while wrapped in their favorite flag. Pres Obama was brilliant and incisive.

The failed manipulators on the racial right haven't been able to change that because they cannot change it.

The right is losing big time as the great majority of American society have jettisoned the far right from its lunar orbit into deep space.

The right can't stop the legacy because it begins after a president leaves office but the marginal right hasn't any clue.

No grace over there.

[F430murci]

He did no such thing.

Did you actually watch it?

[Publicus]

Japan is the developed world's least firearm-filled nation and perhaps its strictest controller?

In 2008, the U.S. had over 12 thousand firearm-related homicides.

All of Japan experienced only 11!

And that was a big year: 2006 saw an astounding two, and when that number jumped to 22 in 2007, it became a national scandal.

So are you moving to Japan so you won't have to worry about those big, bad guns?

It is not about the poster.

[F430murci]

He did no such thing.

"By taking down the Confederate Flag, we exercise God's grace . . . and let;s not stop there . . ." So its God's will or that is what God wants. Did God tell him that last night?

[F430murci]

Sounds like the bubbas are jumping up and down with arms flapping while wrapped in their favorite flag.

Pres Obama was brilliant and incisive.

The failed manipulators on the racial right haven't been able to change that because they cannot change it.

The right is losing big time as the great majority of American society have jettisoned the far right from its lunar orbit into deep space.

The right can't stop the legacy because it begins after a president leaves office but the marginal right hasn't any clue.

No grace over there.

Your an idiot if you are calling me a bubba. You may recall that I voted for Obama twice and I vigorously defended him and his platforms on here until 2013.

Candidly, all of you that just write people off like me as a racist, red neck or a bubba are the fools because you if I was a racist, red neck or bubba I would not have voted for him twice and defended him on her until 2013. In 2013, his handling of the IRS, Benghazi, Putin, Snowden, Syria (bright line) and dealings with China and some banking issues completely turned me away from him. Then when he forced Obama Care through with major issues that arose during implementation, he completely lost me. I also think his true agendas are starting to shine through now that he is about done with his second term. Those agendas are not for the benefit of the USA as a whole.

Legacy? He will go down in history as one of the worst Presidents ever. The sad part, he has set things in motion (including massive QEs) that will begin to impact the economy after he has left the office. So he actually created some of the problems, but the next President will get the blame when we start getting hiccups in about 3 years.

Legacy? He will go down in history as one of the worst Presidents ever.

Get back to us in a hundred years on that, maybe 50 or even ten years...or fewer.

Cause the Obama presidency and its legacy are already shaping up and the right has lost and the right has lost big time.

I'm not prescient either but I'm beginning to sense that gun legislation will happen as quickly as the gay rights turnaround happened in the society and Barack Obama would be hailed for it. I offer no predictions, I just have that sense of things at this time.

Some people will sense consistent trends while others switch their erratic voting choices of the moment. We well know what happens when a bunch of lawyers and Russians get together in Tennessee or wherever.

Obama took over at the bleakest point of our economy since the great depression. The measures for recover were already in place before Obama took office. I know this first hand as I was assisting bank clients with Fed before Obama took office.

No matter who took over in 2008, the economy was going to bounce back. That had zero to do with Obama and we all knew that.

The problem with Obama is the manipulation of CPI and too much QE to artificially keep the economy appearing strong. His administration has also manipulated the unemployment figures.

Truth is, income disparity took off exponentially during Obama's administration due to the measures he wanted to make his economy look good. That benefited people like me who are heavy in the markets, but has killed the middle class.

10 years from now, everyone will be pointing back to what he did during the so called recovery period and the pointing back won't be positive. Everything he has done has destroyed the middle class. Obama Care has wreaked havoc on the middle class.

Sorry Pub. I know you are a democrat so you gotta support your guy. I am a democrat also and he was my guy for 6 years, but dude . . . Obama screed some stuff up bad. Forget politics. Pull your head of the sand and look at reality.

[Chicog]

The measures for recover <sic> were already in place before Obama took office.

Is that a euphemism for "the bailouts had already been organised"?

[Chicog]

I don't think Obama's winning American Idol any time soon, but that was quite a poignant moment.

I wish they'd had the camera on the audience.

[chuckd]

He did no such thing.

"By taking down the Confederate Flag, we exercise God's grace . . . and let;s not stop there . . ." So its God's will or that is what God wants. Did God tell him that last night?

Maybe Jeremiah Wright wrote that part of his speech.

I have no idea who thought he should make an attempt at singing "Amazing Grace". I love the song and want it played at my funeral but I don't want the Bourbon Street version of it.

[Jingthing]

Get real.

He was the first African American president at an African American church eulogizing an African American politician (and friend) in one of the most historically politically important African American churches in the country where recently there was a terrorist massacre motivated by anti-black RACISM.

If that wasn't the right time for Obama to bring out all the "blackness" that he could muster, there was never a time.

He did good.

I'm proud of him.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Jingthing

[Chicog]

He did no such thing.

"By taking down the Confederate Flag, we exercise God's grace . . . and let;s not stop there . . ." So its God's will or that is what God wants. Did God tell him that last night?

Maybe Jeremiah Wright wrote that part of his speech.

I have no idea who thought he should make an attempt at singing "Amazing Grace". I love the song and want it played at my funeral but I don't want the Bourbon Street version of it.

A very predictable sneer, that one.

[sirineou]

For some Obama can do no good,

If things go good, it was not due to Obama, i was going to happen anyway

if things go bad, it was all Obama's fault.

A thinly veiled brand of racism.

His reaction to this racially motivated, mass shooting, was exactly right.

Kudos to President Obama, My condolences to the families of all that died, and sincere regret to the African American community, that things like this can still happen.

[chuckd]

He did no such thing.

"By taking down the Confederate Flag, we exercise God's grace . . . and let;s not stop there . . ." So its God's will or that is what God wants. Did God tell him that last night?

Maybe Jeremiah Wright wrote that part of his speech.

I have no idea who thought he should make an attempt at singing "Amazing Grace". I love the song and want it played at my funeral but I don't want the Bourbon Street version of it.

A very predictable sneer, that one.

Not a "sneer" at all.

The song was not written to be sung in that manner...end of story.

I do not like to hear a personalized version of the National Anthem either. I don't like it when Lady Gaga (or whoever) does their own rendition of that.

The song means too much to too many people to be treated that way.

[Jingthing]

Obama isn't a singer. A for effort. Dramatic impact full marks.

[Jay Sata]

Jeb Bush is not going to rock the bost with the NRA.

New gun control measures are not the way to prevent mass killings such as the shooting deaths of nine people in a South Carolina church, the Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush said on Saturday.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/28/gun-control-wont-prevent-another-charleston-style-shooting-says-jeb-bush

Edited June 28, 2015 by Jay Sata

[Jingthing]

Amazing Grace.

1:22 start:

[sirineou]

Jeb Bush is not going to rock the bost with the NRA.

New gun control measures are not the way to prevent mass killings such as the shooting deaths of nine people in a South Carolina church, the Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush said on Saturday.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/28/gun-control-wont-prevent-another-charleston-style-shooting-says-jeb-bush

No one has said that gun control is the way to prevent such events, For Jeb to make the statement that he did is, at the very least disingenuous, and a political move . One would hope he is inteligent enough to understand the following.

Gun control is not the way, it is part of the way. Other things have to also happen, But gun control , will do exactly what the sentence implies, "control guns".....Control the instrument by which such events are carries out,

It will not eliminate the desire of some, it will not make people kinder, more tolerant. smarter......

But it will make it more difficult for some, not all but some of the idiots, to get their hands on the instrument

Let's all be honest

and on the spirit of honesty let's also admit that it probably would not had helped in this instance, If I understand this correctly, he was not as of yet convicted of anything and as such should not be prevented from buying a gun,

a person is presumed innocent until convicted , and innocent people should not be prevented from buying guns.

But making guns more difficult to get could, I emphasize could, not would, had discouraged him

.

[Jay Sata]

The Japanese only have a handful of gun fatalties every year thanks to rigid gun control.

The USA has thousands of gun homicides.

Its not rocket science to see which model works.

[sirineou]

The Japanese only have a handful of gun fatalties every year thanks to rigid gun control.

The USA has thousands of gun homicides.

Its not rocket science to see which model works.

Yes but if a tyrannical Japanese government took over they will not be able to mount a successful gorilla warfare resistance.

[Publicus]

"By taking down the Confederate Flag, we exercise God's grace . . . and let;s not stop there . . ." So its God's will or that is what God wants. Did God tell him that last night?

Maybe Jeremiah Wright wrote that part of his speech.

I have no idea who thought he should make an attempt at singing "Amazing Grace". I love the song and want it played at my funeral but I don't want the Bourbon Street version of it.

A very predictable sneer, that one.

Not a "sneer" at all.

The song was not written to be sung in that manner...end of story.

I do not like to hear a personalized version of the National Anthem either. I don't like it when Lady Gaga (or whoever) does their own rendition of that.

The song means too much to too many people to be treated that way.

Sounds like it could be a conservative's PC view of music and a sneering one at that, for sure.

Positively absolutely sneering.

To which it can be said one man's poison is another man's apple pie.

There are no diktats in the matter of personal taste to include music, no right and no wrong.

Respect instead the broad and diverse market not to mention the president's eulogy in this tragic and terrible slaughter. I'd be honored to have the Rev Al Sharpton for instance sing Amazing Grace at my funeral. But then again I never got past the wretch stage. Nor am I alone in this respect.

[chuckd]

Maybe Jeremiah Wright wrote that part of his speech.

I have no idea who thought he should make an attempt at singing "Amazing Grace". I love the song and want it played at my funeral but I don't want the Bourbon Street version of it.

A very predictable sneer, that one.

Not a "sneer" at all.

The song was not written to be sung in that manner...end of story.

I do not like to hear a personalized version of the National Anthem either. I don't like it when Lady Gaga (or whoever) does their own rendition of that.

The song means too much to too many people to be treated that way.

Sounds like it could be a conservative's PC view of music and a sneering one at that, for sure.

Positively absolutely sneering.

To which it can be said one man's poison is another man's apple pie.

There are no diktats in the matter of personal taste to include music, no right and no wrong.

Respect instead the broad and diverse market not to mention the president's eulogy in this tragic and terrible slaughter. I'd be honored to have the Rev Al Sharpton for instance sing Amazing Grace at my funeral. But then again I never got past the wretch stage. Nor am I alone in this respect.

A sneer is how I approach your juvenile posts.

My taste in music is what drove me to comment on Barack's musical talent, or lack of same.

His breaking into song was stupid, poorly done and entirely too theatrical...much like most of your posts.

[Publicus]

Moi?

My posts?

Your posts say people not only are wrong, they are ignorant and stupid besides. Not to mention sinister, insidious, scheming.

OTT always.

My criticisms of the far out right focus on their extreme political views as being, well, extreme, sometimes lunar inspired. Which means they could be right...it's just not likely they are right. A broken clock is after all right twice a day.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Publicus

[NeverSure]

Some very interesting stats and article at

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/charleston-shooting-for-every-criminal-killed-in-selfdefence-in-the-us-34-innocent-people-die-10333734.html

Charleston shooting: For every criminal killed in self-defence in the US, 34 innocent people die

In 2012, there were 8,855 criminal gun homicides in the FBI's homicide database, but only 258 gun killings by private citizens that were deemed justifiable, which the FBI defines as "the killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a private citizen."

That works out to one justifiable gun death for every 34 unjustifiable gun deaths.

Try again. Your statistics don't show the number of crimes that are prevented simply because the intended victim had a gun. Often the mere presence of the gun deters a crime including the 2,000 women who avoid being raped each year by having a gun.

You're looking at killings. Criminals often kill and good people try to prevent.

Neither you nor your numbers can say that I avoided being a victim simply because someone who was thinking about it didn't know if I had a gun.

"Figures don't lie, but liars figure." (Not calling you a liar, just saying they can skew anything.)

[NeverSure]

-snip-

Gun control is not the way, it is part of the way. Other things have to also happen, But gun control , will do exactly what the sentence implies, "control guns"....

My idea of gun control is hitting what I aim at. Your idea is already in place. It was already illegal for the perp in this OP to have that gun there. Criminals by definition don't obey laws. There are 300 million guns in private hands in the US and if you tried to take them you'd only get them from the law abiding. Tens of millions would filter through the criminal network leaving criminals armed and honest people disarmed.

There is probably a lot of tough times ahead what with jihadists and all. America will be the last country to have its politics controlled by those people. Maybe it already is. No one is going to pull off their shit in my neighborhood and whatever puzzy people in Europe or Australia want to do is up to them.

See ya.

[sirineou]

-snip-

Gun control is not the way, it is part of the way. Other things have to also happen, But gun control , will do exactly what the sentence implies, "control guns"....

My idea of gun control is hitting what I aim at. Your idea is already in place. It was already illegal for the perp in this OP to have that gun there. Criminals by definition don't obey laws. There are 300 million guns in private hands in the US and if you tried to take them you'd only get them from the law abiding. Tens of millions would filter through the criminal network leaving criminals armed and honest people disarmed.

There is probably a lot of tough times ahead what with jihadists and all. America will be the last country to have its politics controlled by those people. Maybe it already is. No one is going to pull off their shit in my neighborhood and whatever puzzy people in Europe or Australia want to do is up to them.

See ya.

You are missing the point NS

all criminals for what ever crime do not obey the law, that is what makes them criminals, that does not mean we don't have laws against them.

No one wants to take any ones guns away, only the people that should not have them.

and it has already being established that the laws we have are not adequate.

Remove the private sale exclusion, establish an easily accessible comprehensive nationwide database identifying those who should not have them,

What is so unreasonable about that?

If we can do it with drivers licences, why cant we do it with gun licencing?