Clinton says US must face 'hard truths' about guns, race

[Ulysses G.]

I'm pretty sure that the blacks in church are not the ones murdering people. Couldn't you figure that out?

[Merzik]

It's seems to run in the kids family. From what I understand the father gave the kid the gun for his birthday. The kid was also on drugs. Also I guess the family thinks it's funny given the kid a middle name Storm with a last name of Roof.

What type of drug(s)? Interesting, when a perp is drunk, it's either not mentioned or described as '....had been drinking.' Yet any other recreational drug other than alcohol, and it's 'on drugs' and 'a drug-related crime.' If a criminal is drunk, it's never described as a drug-related crime, even though alcohol is a drug, and is a factor in crimes - more than all other rec. drugs combined.

Actually, I know why alcohol is treated with kid gloves: it's a trillion dollar industry, and they sell more booze if they continue to successfully demonize all other rec. drugs.

The pharmacutical industry profits are astronomical as well. This killer was on Suboxone per CBS News. I am not sure if he was prescribed this or got it on the streets ; but it is more likely that he was given a prescription by a doctor. Other reports have said Xanex as well; but I haven't confirmed this yet. Alcohol is indeed linked to increased violence but it is these SSRI pharmacueticals that have been linked to all these sensational mass killings over the last few decades; not alcohol. This is happening all over the world but about half of these SSRI prescriptions are given in the US. Statistically these mass-killings are a small percentage of murder victims; but they are shocking by their senselessness and barbarity and obviously given much media attention.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Merzik

[lostoday]

I'm pretty sure that the blacks in church are not the ones murdering people. Couldn't you figure that out?

That's what makes the negative stereotypes so bad. The shooter being conditioned to hate all blacks by exposure to facts or whatever reinforcing negative stereotypes went into a church and shot people which is the logical end result of racism.

I think racism works in countries with guns or without guns and can't see much relationship between the two.

I really don't see the point of discussing black crime statistics except to be an extreme pric*.

[Thorgal]

Quote from link :

"Metapedia is a multilingual, far-right electronic encyclopedia, which states that it focuses on European culture, art, science, philosophy and politics. It is antisemitic and Islamophobic, containing white nationalist, white supremacist, white separatist, neo-Nazi, and far-right points of view."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metapedia

Why providing and defending such biased a propos and sources in an international news thread like OP ?

OP refers to revision of laws of gun control and tragic racial issues like the Charleston church killings.

Such negative biased souces don't belong in any debate and surely not on TV...

Edited June 20, 2015 by Thorgal

[Scott]

Inflammatory post removed.

[Merzik]

i don't understand why a country with a lot of believers of the bible: you shall not kill

needs that many guns.

"Thou shall not murder" is a more accurate translation. The Bible is full of God-endorsed wars and acceptable killings. Whether one agrees with them or not.

The 2nd Amendment was written to protect the citizens from any government in the future that might become tyrannical. The wording of 2nd Amendment itself is a bit ambiguous and brief; yet the Founding Fathers were all very clear in all of their writings that the citizens be armed for this reason.

I interpret the 2nd amendment differently. I see it as a way to be able to raise a militia quickly if a region is threatened. It was written at a time when there was a standing militia that was way too small to protect the colonies. Farmers had smoothbore guns for hunting and knew how to use them. If the Redcoats, for example, came marching nearby, the call out to farmers to grab their guns to assemble at the town square - would be made easier if all farmers were allowed to keep their guns handy. The 2nd amendment has nothing to do with today's rapid-fire weapons, and the writers could not have foreseen the insanity that would prevail in centuries hence. It needs to be either drastically re-written or trashed.

You obviously haven't read much of what our FF wrote in both their private correspondence or what was published in the newspapers of that day. You have a radically different opinion than they did . You can make the argument that their ideas are now outdated ( even though I disagree) but there is overwhelming evidence of what I wrote represented their viewpoint. They disagreed on many issues but not on this. If you want to change the constitution there is a process to do so.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Merzik

[MaeJoMTB]

After reading the last two pages I have come to the conclusion that since blacks commit more crimes than white people white people should shoot black people in church. Is that what all of you guys posting the crime statistics are getting at?

I'm not entirely sure that I think it's the black people doing the killing.

But there is a correlation between killings and black population.

And there isn't a correlation between gun ownership and killings.

Who can tell why? not me, I don't know the reasons it happens, just that it does happen.

But what I do know, is that America is an unusually murderous society.

Not just the people, but the police and the government.

Taking the guns away doesn't solve any of the underlying problems.

Maybe multiracial and multicultural societies are just inherently violent and unstable.

Edited June 20, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[Publicus]

I'm from the UK and just citing facts.

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

I have read similar statistical data over the years while sooner or later you come to realize that there are a percent of the people that are or will always be involved or caught up in criminal activities.

In the USA the data is fairly accurate while commonly unbiased and simply providing the figures needed to help understand how such social problems can be addressed and resolved.

The question I always ask is this :

If the white folk ( is that racist? ) were living in reverse roles as compared to the Blacks and the Hispanics and numerous other underprivileged ethnic groups living in America....would the crime statistics be the same or similar???

A good example being the social conditions suffered by some of the European ethnic groups struggling to survive at the turn of the century before the first world war in large developing cities such as New York and Chicago.

The Russians and Ukrainians and the Irish also...don't forget the Irish...and do not forget the Italians and their Mafia and the Jewish Mafia.....who developed a reputation as criminals while perpetrating the establishment of criminal organizations ( Gangs?) while the majority of the citizens in those ethnic groups had nothing to do with crime and criminal activities but still they grew up and lived and survived in harsh social and economic conditions...and had to live with the criticisms of the nation because they were guilty by association...so to speak.

Now it is the Blacks and Hispanics, more so than the whites, who suffer the harsh social and economic conditions.

Cheers

The far right absolutely deny the history of race in the USA, from the 17th century to the present. The wingnuts want to discuss only the recent history, the post WW2 Era, as if that were all there is about it.

The right deny anything before that, to include the post Civil War KKK and its resurgence following WWOne. Isolating the history of racism in the US in this way allows the right to deny, deny, deny, and to try to refocus its own failures on black people themselves. Due to its denial of the country's history, the extreme racial right can absolve itself of the total picture and focus on its own terms on a fragment of the total history.

White panic, white denial: Hey white people: If we can get over our twisted relationship with the past, the future might actually be better

Bertha Gilbert, 22, is led away by police after she tried to enter a segregated lunch counter in Nashville, Tenn., on May 6, 1964. (Credit: AP)

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/13/white_panic_the_prehistory_of_the_pool_party_and_americas_future/

Ninety percent of blacks consistently vote for the Democratic party because the right controls the Republican party and the vast majority of police are conservative or right wing Republicans, ever since the Richard Nixon "Southern Strategy" that turned the historically "Solid South" from the Democratic party to the Republican party as Red states. The Solid South has since been solid Red.

Fact is, the history of it post WW2 does not support the racial right and it documents why certain black communities consider it legitimate civil disobedience to reject the orders of the right wing police that are the most aggressive against them.

Several young civil rights protesters were attacked by police dogs on May 3, 1963 in downtown Birmingham. The young man in this picture was believed to be Ullman High School student Walter Gadsden, according to a 1963 Jet Magazine interview and local activist, Ullman classmate Ronald Jackson. (AP/Bill Hudson

“They Fight a Fire that Won’t go

Out.” Life. May 17, 1963, pg.26-7.

Chares Moore

[lostoday]

After reading the last two pages I have come to the conclusion that since blacks commit more crimes than white people white people should shoot black people in church. Is that what all of you guys posting the crime statistics are getting at?

I'm not entirely sure that I think it's the black people doing the killing.

But there is a correlation between killings and black population.

And there isn't a correlation between gun ownership and killings.

Who can tell why? not me, I don't know the reasons it happens, just that it does happen.

So why is it relevant here? This thread was prompted by a white racist going into a black church and killing black people. What correlation are you talking about? This is about availability of guns to nut cases.

Do you think that because blacks are prone to violence and anti social behavior that is a justification for racism or killing black people?

Edited June 20, 2015 by lostoday

[Merzik]

After reading the last two pages I have come to the conclusion that since blacks commit more crimes than white people white people should shoot black people in church. Is that what all of you guys posting the crime statistics are getting at?

Rubbish. Nobody in their right mind approves of this hedious crime. Yet the leftist media in the USA is once again demonizing European-Americans as a group as a result of this tragedy. Everyday is white-guilt day in America. So it is worth pointing out that whites are far more likely to victims of violent crimes by blacks than the reverse case. The liberal MSM and Hollywood have been demonizing European-Americans and our history and culture for decades; and I will have none of this crap anymore. The same is being done in France; particularly with the socialists in power.

[lostoday]

After reading the last two pages I have come to the conclusion that since blacks commit more crimes than white people white people should shoot black people in church. Is that what all of you guys posting the crime statistics are getting at?

Rubbish. Nobody in their right mind approves of this hedious crime. Yet the leftist media in the USA is once again demonizing European-Americans as a group as a result of this tragedy. Everyday is white-guilt day in America. So it is worth pointing out that whites are far more likely to victims of violent crimes by blacks than the reverse case. The liberal MSM and Hollywood have been demonizing European-Americans and our history and culture for decades; and I will have none of this crap anymore. The same is being done in France; particularly with the socialists in power.

You can check but I believe that blacks are far more likely than whites to be victims of violent crime. I don't ever recall a case of a black person going into a white church and shooting 9 people. This case is clearly a case of racism whites against blacks. It might not be European - Americans could be whites from other places. I don't think black people in America make the distinction of European Americans as opposed to white people from the Middle East or other places.

[Publicus]

After reading the last two pages I have come to the conclusion that since blacks commit more crimes than white people white people should shoot black people in church. Is that what all of you guys posting the crime statistics are getting at?

Rubbish. Nobody in their right mind approves of this hedious crime. Yet the leftist media in the USA is once again demonizing European-Americans as a group as a result of this tragedy. Everyday is white-guilt day in America. So it is worth pointing out that whites are far more likely to victims of violent crimes by blacks than the reverse case. The liberal MSM and Hollywood have been demonizing European-Americans and our history and culture for decades; and I will have none of this crap anymore. The same is being done in France; particularly with the socialists in power.

The liberal MSM

The "liberal MSM" are the mainstream media to mainstream America.

It's the "liberal MSM" to the fringe radical right only.

[Merzik]

I'm from the UK and just citing facts.

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

I have read similar statistical data over the years while sooner or later you come to realize that there are a percent of the people that are or will always be involved or caught up in criminal activities.

In the USA the data is fairly accurate while commonly unbiased and simply providing the figures needed to help understand how such social problems can be addressed and resolved.

The question I always ask is this :

If the white folk ( is that racist? ) were living in reverse roles as compared to the Blacks and the Hispanics and numerous other underprivileged ethnic groups living in America....would the crime statistics be the same or similar???

A good example being the social conditions suffered by some of the European ethnic groups struggling to survive at the turn of the century before the first world war in large developing cities such as New York and Chicago.

The Russians and Ukrainians and the Irish also...don't forget the Irish...and do not forget the Italians and their Mafia and the Jewish Mafia.....who developed a reputation as criminals while perpetrating the establishment of criminal organizations ( Gangs?) while the majority of the citizens in those ethnic groups had nothing to do with crime and criminal activities but still they grew up and lived and survived in harsh social and economic conditions...and had to live with the criticisms of the nation because they were guilty by association...so to speak.

Now it is the Blacks and Hispanics, more so than the whites, who suffer the harsh social and economic conditions.

Cheers

The far right absolutely deny the history of race in the USA, from the 17th century to the present. The wingnuts want to discuss only the recent history, the post WW2 Era, as if that were all there is about it.

The right deny anything before that, to include the post Civil War KKK and its resurgence following WWOne. Isolating the history of racism in the US in this way allows the right to deny, deny, deny, and to try to refocus its own failures on black people themselves. Due to its denial of the country's history, the extreme racial right can absolve itself of the total picture and focus on its own terms on a fragment of the total history.

White panic, white denial: Hey white people: If we can get over our twisted relationship with the past, the future might actually be better

Bertha Gilbert, 22, is led away by police after she tried to enter a segregated lunch counter in Nashville, Tenn., on May 6, 1964.

(Credit: AP)

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/13/white_panic_the_prehistory_of_the_pool_party_and_americas_future/

Ninety percent of blacks consistently vote for the Democratic party because the right controls the Republican party and the vast majority of police are conservative or right wing Republicans, ever since the Richard Nixon "Southern Strategy" that turned the historically "Solid South" from the Democratic party to the Republican party as Red states. The Solid South has since been solid Red.

Fact is, the history of it post WW2 does not support the racial right and it documents why certain black communities consider it legitimate civil disobedience to reject the orders of the right wing police that are the most aggressive against them.

Several young civil rights protesters were attacked by police dogs on May 3, 1963 in downtown Birmingham. The young man in this picture was believed to be Ullman High School student Walter Gadsden, according to a 1963 Jet Magazine interview and local activist, Ullman classmate Ronald Jackson. (AP/Bill Hudson

They Fight a Fire that Wont go

Out. Life. May 17, 1963, pg.26-7.

Chares Moore

Typical anti-European-American hatred; even if it is most likely self-hatred by a guilt-ridden white liberal indoctrinated by decades of Cultural Marxism to hate himself and his culture. The negative aspects of American history have been highlighted and emphasized since the 1960's in both media and academia. Even the very real crimes of slavery and the Kkk have been exagerated out of proportion. Many Americans today are unaware that less than 2% of Americans at the height of slavery ever held any slaves at all; or that slavery has been practiced all over the world by every race. Africans often sold their fellow Africans to Arab, European and Jewish slave-traders. Slavery is indeed a barbaric instiution; but it is hardly unique to Europeans or Americans and I have no personal guilt for this . Few European- Americans ever had slaves and most European immigration to America came after it was already ended. After slavery was ended during our Civil War blacks were indeed segregated and often mistreated in America ; but segregation and tribalism has been the norm throughout human history all over the planet. The number of blacks from the end of the Civil War until today increased dramatically; they were segregated but not slaughtered.. Even in the era of segregation they were in general far better off than their brothers in Africa and benefited from the advances in European-American technology and science. They have had not only full legal rights for the last 50 years; but preferential treatment in hiring and education. Even obama benefitted from this.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Scott

[BKKBobby]

Guns dont kill, people do... - Sounds smart, but it isnt.

Its much easier for a average decent guy to pull the trigger when drunk, angry and tired than using a baseball bat. If there was no gun in front of him but only a baseball bat next to him, the dead people might be alive.

I dont know about this recent white guy kills 9 black case. But i hope some people stop yapping about black people being violent by nature for a while.

[Merzik]

After reading the last two pages I have come to the conclusion that since blacks commit more crimes than white people white people should shoot black people in church. Is that what all of you guys posting the crime statistics are getting at?

Rubbish. Nobody in their right mind approves of this hedious crime. Yet the leftist media in the USA is once again demonizing European-Americans as a group as a result of this tragedy. Everyday is white-guilt day in America. So it is worth pointing out that whites are far more likely to victims of violent crimes by blacks than the reverse case. The liberal MSM and Hollywood have been demonizing European-Americans and our history and culture for decades; and I will have none of this crap anymore. The same is being done in France; particularly with the socialists in power.

You can check but I believe that blacks are far more likely than whites to be victims of violent crime. I don't ever recall a case of a black person going into a white church and shooting 9 people. This case is clearly a case of racism whites against blacks. It might not be European - Americans could be whites from other places. I don't think black people in America make the distinction of European Americans as opposed to white people from the Middle East or other places.

Most of the violent crime committed by blacks is indeed against other blacks. I am well aware of this. The inter-racial crime is far, far more likely to be black-on-white than the reverse however. The MSM highlights any white-on-black crime and downplays black-on-white rapes, murders and home invasions.

This video documents this :

https://vimeo.com/64279317

[Thorgal]

US political heavyweights will not make any statements of the US economical situation.

It's known that there are more than 640.000 homeless people all over the US. With 60.000 in NY with 24.000 homeless children...

Even so, there's is a poverty rate of more or less 14% of US population or 45.000.000 people are living in poverty.

Results unfortunately in high scores of criminality, racism and social instability.

Trend of racism and drug use are higher in those economical fragile minority groups.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Thorgal

[Merzik]

Guns dont kill, people do... - Sounds smart, but it isnt.

Its much easier for a average decent guy to pull the trigger when drunk, angry and tired than using a baseball bat. If there was no gun in front of him but only a baseball bat next to him, the dead people might be alive.

I dont know about this recent white guy kills 9 black case. But i hope some people stop yapping about black people being violent by nature for a while.

More than 60 million people were murdered by their own government in the Soviet Union. This could not have taken place had the people been armed. This is why the 2nd Amendment is in our constitution; not as a deterent to stopping individual crime .

When the MSM stops demonizing whites and the violent crime rates of blacks drops to the norm of the rest of society you will hear less of how violent blacks are. This has to stop https://vimeo.com/64279317

Edited June 20, 2015 by Merzik

[F430murci]

I'm from the UK and just citing facts.

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

I have read similar statistical data over the years while sooner or later you come to realize that there are a percent of the people that are or will always be involved or caught up in criminal activities.

In the USA the data is fairly accurate while commonly unbiased and simply providing the figures needed to help understand how such social problems can be addressed and resolved.

The question I always ask is this :

If the white folk ( is that racist? ) were living in reverse roles as compared to the Blacks and the Hispanics and numerous other underprivileged ethnic groups living in America....would the crime statistics be the same or similar???

A good example being the social conditions suffered by some of the European ethnic groups struggling to survive at the turn of the century before the first world war in large developing cities such as New York and Chicago.

The Russians and Ukrainians and the Irish also...don't forget the Irish...and do not forget the Italians and their Mafia and the Jewish Mafia.....who developed a reputation as criminals while perpetrating the establishment of criminal organizations ( Gangs?) while the majority of the citizens in those ethnic groups had nothing to do with crime and criminal activities but still they grew up and lived and survived in harsh social and economic conditions...and had to live with the criticisms of the nation because they were guilty by association...so to speak.

Now it is the Blacks and Hispanics, more so than the whites, who suffer the harsh social and economic conditions.

Cheers

The far right absolutely deny the history of race in the USA, from the 17th century to the present. The wingnuts want to discuss only the recent history, the post WW2 Era, as if that were all there is about it.

The right deny anything before that, to include the post Civil War KKK and its resurgence following WWOne. Isolating the history of racism in the US in this way allows the right to deny, deny, deny, and to try to refocus its own failures on black people themselves. Due to its denial of the country's history, the extreme racial right can absolve itself of the total picture and focus on its own terms on a fragment of the total history.

White panic, white denial: Hey white people: If we can get over our twisted relationship with the past, the future might actually be better

Bertha Gilbert, 22, is led away by police after she tried to enter a segregated lunch counter in Nashville, Tenn., on May 6, 1964. (Credit: AP)

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/13/white_panic_the_prehistory_of_the_pool_party_and_americas_future/

Ninety percent of blacks consistently vote for the Democratic party because the right controls the Republican party and the vast majority of police are conservative or right wing Republicans, ever since the Richard Nixon "Southern Strategy" that turned the historically "Solid South" from the Democratic party to the Republican party as Red states. The Solid South has since been solid Red.

Fact is, the history of it post WW2 does not support the racial right and it documents why certain black communities consider it legitimate civil disobedience to reject the orders of the right wing police that are the most aggressive against them.

Several young civil rights protesters were attacked by police dogs on May 3, 1963 in downtown Birmingham. The young man in this picture was believed to be Ullman High School student Walter Gadsden, according to a 1963 Jet Magazine interview and local activist, Ullman classmate Ronald Jackson. (AP/Bill Hudson

“They Fight a Fire that Won’t go

Out.” Life. May 17, 1963, pg.26-7.

Chares Moore

Dude, stop living in the past. Serious, you know what kind of people live in the past don't you? You do realize that 1964 was 51 years ago. Heck, that was before I was born. Seems like only one or certain races and loser types hang on to things from that long ago as an excuse for what really is attributable to their own shortcomings, failures or just out right laziness. You posting up stuff and horrible pictures from 1964 speaks volumes about you and more about you than 2015.

[F430murci]

Merzik:

I am so focused on your avatar that I can never read any of your posts.

[lostoday]

Guns dont kill, people do... - Sounds smart, but it isnt.

Its much easier for a average decent guy to pull the trigger when drunk, angry and tired than using a baseball bat. If there was no gun in front of him but only a baseball bat next to him, the dead people might be alive.

I dont know about this recent white guy kills 9 black case. But i hope some people stop yapping about black people being violent by nature for a while.

The black people who were killed in the church were not violent.

I don't understand all the negative black stuff that is being written in this thread.

Someone should say stop. It is an insult to the people who died.

[lostoday]

Merzik:

I am so focused on your avatar that I can never read any of your posts.

Geert Wilders has a new look.

[Merzik]

Merzik:

I am so focused on your avatar that I can never read any of your posts.

555

I have a little collection of BB pics. Pity I can't post them on this forum.

[chuckd]

So it would seem, and it is not exclusive to the US.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Britain

In 2009-10 Blacks were 2.7% of the population aged 10 or above in England and Wales. They were 13.7% of the prison population. They received 6% of sentences for burglary, 9% of sentences for violence against persons, 16% of sentences for drug offences, 19% of sentences for robbery, and 22% of sentences for fraud and forgery. Crimes committed by Blacks were more severe as shown by longer sentence lengths.^[33]

Almost twice as many black people were in 2003 in prison as at university, according to a report by the Commission for Racial Equality.^[34]

In London, 12% of the population was Black in 2010. In June 2010 The Sunday Telegraph, through a Freedom of Information Act request, obtained statistics regarding those the police took action against for a range of crimes in London in 2009-10. For street crimes including muggings, assault with intent to rob, and snatching property 54% of the offenders were Black. For robbery 59%. For gun crimes 67%. For sexual offences 32%. Black women were responsible for a disproportionate amount of the violent crimes committed by women.^[35]

The British Crime Survey in 2004 found that more Whites than non-Whites reported being the victim of a racially motivated crime. Five times as many Whites as non-Whites reported being wounded in such attacks.^[36]

England and Wales uses two different systems for ethnic/racial classification. Physical appearance is used, for example, by the police when doing a Stop and Search or an arrest. Self-described race is used, for example, in census statistics.^[37]

France

A 2013 book described an explosion of crime in France and linked it to the mass immigration of non-Whites. France has no official statistics on ethnicity and crime, but a study found that 60-70% of prisoners are Muslims and local statistics confirmed the over-representation of non-Whites in prison. Also in other European countries were Blacks and Arabs overrepresented in the criminal population. The police received little support from the politically correct media or authorities and were instead routinely accused of "racism". The police union stated that police officers were afraid to use force for fear of racial consequences. Criminals therefore no longer feared the police and if caught they received limited or no jail time. This was likely an explanation for why race riots in France were more frequent and violent than in any other European country. Police rarely entered certain immigrant neighborhoods for fear that their mere presence could be a "provocation". The media disproportionately focused on crimes against minorities such as Jews, Muslims, and homosexuals despite these groups having much lower risks per person of being victimized than French natives.^[38]

Australia

Aboriginal Australians and Torres Strait Islanders accounted for 27% of the total Australian prisoner population in 2014 but were only approximately 2% of the Australian population aged 18 years and over.^[39]

New Zealand

In 2004, Maori made up just 15% of the total population but 49.5% of prisoners.^[40]

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime

Prison stats are not a real indicator of crime with regard to ethnicity because of systemic racism and socio-economic reasons, more dark people get nabbed and convicted.

My guess is if the studies that got those results looked at socio-economic backgrounds without mentioning race, you could replace "(insert dark ethnic group here)" with "person of low socio-economic background" and get similar results.

Rather than "guessing", why don't you check out the footnotes to satisfy your curiousity.

Let us know what conclusions you draw.

No thanks...I suspect it would be a waste of time.Here is an excerpt from your source's "Mission Statement";

"Furthermore Metapedia gives us the opportunity to present a more balanced and fair image of the pro-European struggle for the general public as well as for academics, who until now have been dependent on strongly biased and hostile “researchers” like Searchlight, Anti-Defamation League, Southern Poverty Law Center, Simon Wiesenthal Centre, and such."

If I was to quote your source on an Israeli debate, would you accept their position?

I think not. It seems like a bit of a KKK in white collars type of website. Jews and blacks equally demonised. What brings you to reading and trusting it's content, may I ask?

Karen Bravo provided the link in a post she made prior to mine. You didn't seem to obect to her use of it then.

As she said to another non-believer...if you don't like it, dispute it with some facts.

If you can do so.

PS: Her post is number 56.

Edited June 20, 2015 by chuckd

[chuckd]

It looks like a list of facts. If the facts are not correct, please provide credible evidence, instead of the usual insults.

"Facts" sourced from a website that also has a list of "facts" about Jews.

"Facts" from a website that is dedicated to white supremicism, it appears.

If you support these "facts" because this website promulgated them, then that's your prerogative, as it is the other member who quoted from it (and who doesn't want to comment further on the matter).

Not that I would ever use this website as a source, but if I did, I suppose you would not argue the points I quote from it? Facts are facts, right? Sources are reliable or not, right?

'as it is the other member who quoted from it (and who doesn't want to comment further on the matter)."

Your original post was responded to prior to my reading this cute little remark.

I get on the forum when I want to, not when you feel you deserve an answer.

[Merzik]

The problem is negative racial stereotypes, not guns. America has a long history of killing black people without using guns.

I have seen more use of negative stereotypes on Thai Visa than I have ever witnessed anywhere. A. Thais, Americans, C. Old guys, D. Bar girls, C. Punters, E. Blacks, Asians ......you name it people discuss negative stereotypes about it.

What does an American racist look like? 1. He is not black and he is not educated. So that is the group America must attack first to stop the problem. The biggest problem in racism is lack of education. Does Gert Wilders have a bunch of college graduates as supporters?

Gert Wilders is a patriot standing up to the Islamic invasion of Europe that is not wanted by a majority of Europeans. It has been imposed on us by our corrupt elite class. Two years ago Le Monde published a survey in which 62% of French no longer felt at home in France due to the large number of immigrants who are not assimilating to our culture. The National Front is now the largest party in France despite its demonization in the MSM. France is near another revolution. As the African and Muslim tidal wave grows in the rest of Europe; the Gert Wilders will become as popular as Marine Le Pen is in France and leftist multiculuralists as despised as Hollande is now.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Merzik

[chuckd]

Guns dont kill, people do... - Sounds smart, but it isnt.

Its much easier for a average decent guy to pull the trigger when drunk, angry and tired than using a baseball bat. If there was no gun in front of him but only a baseball bat next to him, the dead people might be alive.

I dont know about this recent white guy kills 9 black case. But i hope some people stop yapping about black people being violent by nature for a while.

The black people who were killed in the church were not violent.

I don't understand all the negative black stuff that is being written in this thread.

Someone should say stop. It is an insult to the people who died.

This thread is about Hillary saying the US must face some hard truths about race and guns.

These are some of those hard truths. The liberal press won't report it but it is out there and should be addressed.

[lostoday]

The problem is negative racial stereotypes, not guns. America has a long history of killing black people without using guns.

I have seen more use of negative stereotypes on Thai Visa than I have ever witnessed anywhere. A. Thais, Americans, C. Old guys, D. Bar girls, C. Punters, E. Blacks, Asians ......you name it people discuss negative stereotypes about it.

What does an American racist look like? 1. He is not black and he is not educated. So that is the group America must attack first to stop the problem. The biggest problem in racism is lack of education. Does Gert Wilders have a bunch of college graduates as supporters?

Gert Wilders is a patriot standing up to the Islamic invasion of Europe that is not wanted by a majority of Europeans. It has been imposed on us by our corrupt elite class. Two years ago Le Monde published a survey in which 62% of French no longer felt at home in France due to the large number of immigrants who are not assimilating to our culture. The National Front is now the largest party in France despite its demonization in the MSM. France is near another revolution. As the African and Muslim tidal wave grows in the rest of Europe; the Gert Wilders will become as popular as Marine Le Pen is in France and leftist multiculuralists as despised as Hollande is now.

Wilders appeals mainly to 'poor white' voters, who feel betrayed by the mainstream parties, and feel the country is being sold out to immigrants. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders

What we would call rednecks in the USA and the people who support racism and anti black movements in general.

You have missed the entire thrust of this thread which "Clinton said we must face the hard truth about racism and guns."

From reading your posts I'd say you were a European racist posing as an American racist.

I think this is the wrong time for your ramblings as the country is in mourning for 9 people who were killed in church by a racist trying to start a race war.

Why don't you open another thread where you can preach your anti black and anti everything but European White people stuff.

[Publicus]

I'm from the UK and just citing facts.

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

I have read similar statistical data over the years while sooner or later you come to realize that there are a percent of the people that are or will always be involved or caught up in criminal activities.

In the USA the data is fairly accurate while commonly unbiased and simply providing the figures needed to help understand how such social problems can be addressed and resolved.

The question I always ask is this :

If the white folk ( is that racist? ) were living in reverse roles as compared to the Blacks and the Hispanics and numerous other underprivileged ethnic groups living in America....would the crime statistics be the same or similar???

A good example being the social conditions suffered by some of the European ethnic groups struggling to survive at the turn of the century before the first world war in large developing cities such as New York and Chicago.

The Russians and Ukrainians and the Irish also...don't forget the Irish...and do not forget the Italians and their Mafia and the Jewish Mafia.....who developed a reputation as criminals while perpetrating the establishment of criminal organizations ( Gangs?) while the majority of the citizens in those ethnic groups had nothing to do with crime and criminal activities but still they grew up and lived and survived in harsh social and economic conditions...and had to live with the criticisms of the nation because they were guilty by association...so to speak.

Now it is the Blacks and Hispanics, more so than the whites, who suffer the harsh social and economic conditions.

Cheers

The far right absolutely deny the history of race in the USA, from the 17th century to the present. The wingnuts want to discuss only the recent history, the post WW2 Era, as if that were all there is about it.

The right deny anything before that, to include the post Civil War KKK and its resurgence following WWOne. Isolating the history of racism in the US in this way allows the right to deny, deny, deny, and to try to refocus its own failures on black people themselves. Due to its denial of the country's history, the extreme racial right can absolve itself of the total picture and focus on its own terms on a fragment of the total history.

White panic, white denial: Hey white people: If we can get over our twisted relationship with the past, the future might actually be better

Bertha Gilbert, 22, is led away by police after she tried to enter a segregated lunch counter in Nashville, Tenn., on May 6, 1964. (Credit: AP)

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/13/white_panic_the_prehistory_of_the_pool_party_and_americas_future/

Ninety percent of blacks consistently vote for the Democratic party because the right controls the Republican party and the vast majority of police are conservative or right wing Republicans, ever since the Richard Nixon "Southern Strategy" that turned the historically "Solid South" from the Democratic party to the Republican party as Red states. The Solid South has since been solid Red.

Fact is, the history of it post WW2 does not support the racial right and it documents why certain black communities consider it legitimate civil disobedience to reject the orders of the right wing police that are the most aggressive against them.

Several young civil rights protesters were attacked by police dogs on May 3, 1963 in downtown Birmingham. The young man in this picture was believed to be Ullman High School student Walter Gadsden, according to a 1963 Jet Magazine interview and local activist, Ullman classmate Ronald Jackson. (AP/Bill Hudson

“They Fight a Fire that Won’t go

Out.” Life. May 17, 1963, pg.26-7.

Chares Moore

Dude, stop living in the past. Serious, you know what kind of people live in the past don't you? You do realize that 1964 was 51 years ago. Heck, that was before I was born. Seems like only one or certain races and loser types hang on to things from that long ago as an excuse for what really is attributable to their own shortcomings, failures or just out right laziness. You posting up stuff and horrible pictures from 1964 speaks volumes about you and more about you than 2015.

The police continuum against black Americans is what the right wing avoid discussing, recognizing, confronting. For the right it is deny, deflect, deny. The continuum began in the 17th century and it continues to the present with very little relief or redress in sight.

Yes, there's a photo from Nashville, Tennessee.

The use of organized police forces against the black Civil Rights Movement irreparably harmed and damaged policing in the United States to this day. The cops then were the right winger cops, the offending cops today are the right wingers, and the cops in between have been the right wingers. The problem today is that the right wing cops are unstable burnouts who keep reaching for the gun.

[Publicus]

I'm from the UK and just citing facts.

Sometimes, facts can be inconvenient things, eh?

I have read similar statistical data over the years while sooner or later you come to realize that there are a percent of the people that are or will always be involved or caught up in criminal activities.

In the USA the data is fairly accurate while commonly unbiased and simply providing the figures needed to help understand how such social problems can be addressed and resolved.

The question I always ask is this :

If the white folk ( is that racist? ) were living in reverse roles as compared to the Blacks and the Hispanics and numerous other underprivileged ethnic groups living in America....would the crime statistics be the same or similar???

A good example being the social conditions suffered by some of the European ethnic groups struggling to survive at the turn of the century before the first world war in large developing cities such as New York and Chicago.

The Russians and Ukrainians and the Irish also...don't forget the Irish...and do not forget the Italians and their Mafia and the Jewish Mafia.....who developed a reputation as criminals while perpetrating the establishment of criminal organizations ( Gangs?) while the majority of the citizens in those ethnic groups had nothing to do with crime and criminal activities but still they grew up and lived and survived in harsh social and economic conditions...and had to live with the criticisms of the nation because they were guilty by association...so to speak.

Now it is the Blacks and Hispanics, more so than the whites, who suffer the harsh social and economic conditions.

Cheers

The far right absolutely deny the history of race in the USA, from the 17th century to the present. The wingnuts want to discuss only the recent history, the post WW2 Era, as if that were all there is about it.

The right deny anything before that, to include the post Civil War KKK and its resurgence following WWOne. Isolating the history of racism in the US in this way allows the right to deny, deny, deny, and to try to refocus its own failures on black people themselves. Due to its denial of the country's history, the extreme racial right can absolve itself of the total picture and focus on its own terms on a fragment of the total history.

White panic, white denial: Hey white people: If we can get over our twisted relationship with the past, the future might actually be better

Bertha Gilbert, 22, is led away by police after she tried to enter a segregated lunch counter in Nashville, Tenn., on May 6, 1964.

(Credit: AP)

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/13/white_panic_the_prehistory_of_the_pool_party_and_americas_future/

Ninety percent of blacks consistently vote for the Democratic party because the right controls the Republican party and the vast majority of police are conservative or right wing Republicans, ever since the Richard Nixon "Southern Strategy" that turned the historically "Solid South" from the Democratic party to the Republican party as Red states. The Solid South has since been solid Red.

Fact is, the history of it post WW2 does not support the racial right and it documents why certain black communities consider it legitimate civil disobedience to reject the orders of the right wing police that are the most aggressive against them.

Several young civil rights protesters were attacked by police dogs on May 3, 1963 in downtown Birmingham. The young man in this picture was believed to be Ullman High School student Walter Gadsden, according to a 1963 Jet Magazine interview and local activist, Ullman classmate Ronald Jackson. (AP/Bill Hudson

They Fight a Fire that Wont go

Out. Life. May 17, 1963, pg.26-7.

Chares Moore

Typical anti-European-American hatred; even if it is most likely self-hatred by a guilt-ridden white liberal indoctrinated by decades of Cultural Marxism to hate himself and his culture. The negative aspects of American history have been highlighted and emphasized since the 1960's in both media and academia. Even the very real crimes of slavery and the Kkk have been exagerated out of proportion. Many Americans today are unaware that less than 2% of Americans at the height of slavery ever held any slaves at all; or that slavery has been practiced all over the world by every race. Africans often sold their fellow Africans to Arab, European and Jewish slave-traders. Slavery is indeed a barbaric instiution; but it is hardly unique to Europeans or Americans and I have no personal guilt for this . Few European- Americans ever had slaves and most European immigration to America came after it was already ended. After slavery was ended during our Civil War blacks were indeed segregated and often mistreated in America ; but segregation and tribalism has been the norm throughout human history all over the planet. The number of blacks from the end of the Civil War until today increased dramatically; they were segregated but not slaughtered.. Even in the era of segregation they were in general far better off than their brothers in Africa and benefited from the advances in European-American technology and science. They have had not only full legal rights for the last 50 years; but preferential treatment in hiring and education. Even obama benefitted from this.

Typical anti-European-American hatred; even if it is most likely self-hatred by a guilt-ridden white liberal indoctrinated by decades of Cultural Marxism to hate himself and his culture

Right wing political pulp and extremist ideological spam.

The right cannot address the central issues of equality and human rights as presented by the European Enlightenment and as written into the US Constitution. The right avoids the deep racial history of the American experience because there is no justification of it, there are only apologies, qualifiers, excuses. It's easier for the right to attack gangbangers than to look in the mirror.

[Merzik]

The problem is negative racial stereotypes, not guns. America has a long history of killing black people without using guns.

I have seen more use of negative stereotypes on Thai Visa than I have ever witnessed anywhere. A. Thais, Americans, C. Old guys, D. Bar girls, C. Punters, E. Blacks, Asians ......you name it people discuss negative stereotypes about it.

What does an American racist look like? 1. He is not black and he is not educated. So that is the group America must attack first to stop the problem. The biggest problem in racism is lack of education. Does Gert Wilders have a bunch of college graduates as supporters?

Gert Wilders is a patriot standing up to the Islamic invasion of Europe that is not wanted by a majority of Europeans. It has been imposed on us by our corrupt elite class. Two years ago Le Monde published a survey in which 62% of French no longer felt at home in France due to the large number of immigrants who are not assimilating to our culture. The National Front is now the largest party in France despite its demonization in the MSM. France is near another revolution. As the African and Muslim tidal wave grows in the rest of Europe; the Gert Wilders will become as popular as Marine Le Pen is in France and leftist multiculuralists as despised as Hollande is now.

Wilders appeals mainly to 'poor white' voters, who feel betrayed by the mainstream parties, and feel the country is being sold out to immigrants. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders

What we would call rednecks in the USA and the people who support racism and anti black movements in general.

You have missed the entire thrust of this thread which "Clinton said we must face the hard truth about racism and guns."

From reading your posts I'd say you were a European racist posing as an American racist.

I think this is the wrong time for your ramblings as the country is in mourning for 9 people who were killed in church by a racist trying to start a race war.

Why don't you open another thread where you can preach your anti black and anti everything but European White people stuff.

I am both American and French and proud of both. It is you who brought up Geert Wilders ( twice) not me. I was very much on topic on this thread. The killing of these innocent people is indeed a tragedy which no decent person approves of. Yet it is the left that is exploiting this tragedy and others and stirring up a potential race war in America. This has been going on for some time now. We have president that meets regularly with an overt black racist like Al Sharpton in the White House as well as making numerous other race related stances offensive to the majority population and who has clearly made race relations far worse than they were 6 years ago. I have indeed been critical of black-on-white violence because of the current leftist media attacks on the European majority population of America and the left's continuous victimization and unwarranted claims of blacks having such a terrible life in the US because of white racism. Per the "redneck" slur; it is typical behavior of leftists who don't fare well in debates or have the abilitity to make an intelligent argument on the subject being discussed despite the high opinion they have of themselves. Edited June 20, 2015 by Merzik