Does Spain Recognise A Cohabiting Relationship?

[Phil_ne_uk]

I am a UK citizen and have a Thai girlfriend who I have known for 26 months. We are living together in Thailand but want to live in Spain to start a business. I understand that a settlement visa can be obtained for the UK if a couple have lived together for 2 years. I have searched the net but cant find the answer to my question which is,,

Does Spain recognise a cohabiting relationship in the same way that the UK does in order to apply for settlement in Spain for my girlfriend as a couple living together? Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers

Phil

[Mr Jones]

Spain recognises EU laws just like the UK.

you should be okay

lez

[vinny]

See also Right of Union citizens and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States.

You girlfriend wants to exercise her Treaty Rights pursuant to Article 3(2)( b ) of European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC.

Ask the Spanish Embassy what supporting documents they would require as proof of "a durable relationship, duly attested".

[Phil_ne_uk]

Thanks for your replies. I have read the link regarding family members but have a question relating to where it reads,

QUOTE

"Member States may require the following documents to be

presented:

(a) a valid identity card or passport;

(b,) a document attesting to the existence of a family relationship

or of a registered partnership;

© where appropriate, the registration certificate of the Union

citizen whom they are accompanying or joining"

In (b,) above, any idea what document they would require and who from to prove our relationship? Also where it reads,

QUOTE

© the partner with whom the Union citizen has contracted

a registered partnership, on the basis of the legislation

of a Member State, if the legislation of the host Member

State treats registered partnerships as equivalent to

marriage and in accordance with the conditions laid

down in the relevant legislation of the host Member

State;

In © above, does anyone know if, the host member state, Spain in this case, recognises registered partnerships?

Cheers

Phil

[the scouser]

Phil,

A registered partnership in this context relates to homosexuals. Your girlfriend will be presenting herself as what is sometimes erroneously referred to as your common-law wife; i.e. you live in a relationship which, save for the lack of a marriage certificate, would be considered a marriage.

As Vinny posted, you might wish to contact the Spanish embassy and establish what documentation they will require to satisfy themselves that you and your g/f are unmarried partners.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[Phil_ne_uk]

Thanks for your replies lads, however I'm still confused! A week ago I went to the Spanish embassy in BKK and told a Spanish guy that I was moving to Spain to start a business and naturally wanted to know what they needed to see to comfirm our relationship and told him that I read about a new directive allowing cohabiting partners entitlement to a family permit to settle in Spain. He asked me to show it to him, to which I had to say I didnt exactly know what it was I needed to show him! He said that we need to show him a marriage certificate! So, after reading the links from Vinny's post I'm still confused!

Any idea what I need to print out to show them in black & white that she is entitled to a family permit? (I think thats what it's called for settlement)

We have known each other since July 2004. My g/f came to the UK in January 2005 and we have lived together since both in los & the UK. If they expect us to have been together 2 years, would the clock have started in July 2004 or January 2005, in their eyes? In theory our relationship started in the July 04. The only reason we didnt get to live together sooner was because the UK embassy refused her 1st v v lol!

Below is an extract from the Spanish embassy website. I like where it reads,, "or if there is a justified enough reason to apply for this visa"

Also in No. 4 it reads, "Document proving that the applicant is in fact related by blood or by law"

So they seem to expect couples to be related by LAW, which we aren't!

Any further advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Phil

_______________________________________________________________________________

Requirements to apply for a visa to join a family member who is Spanish, a national an European Union country, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway.

Persons entitled to apply for this visa:

- spouse

- children under 18 years of age.

-parents, when they are 65 years old, are economically dependent on the person living in Spain, or if there is a justified enough reason to apply for this visa.

Documents to be presented:

1.- Application form.

2.- Four photographs (ID card size).

3.- Passport with a validity of at least 4 months from the date of application.

4.- Document proving that the applicant is in fact related by blood or by law to the person who is a legal resident in Spain. This document must be legalized by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and with an official translation into Spanish.

When the applicant is married to an E.U. citizen, the latter should present a document issued by his/her Embassy in Bangkok stating that the marriage, celebrated according to the Thai law, or that of a third country, has the same legal consequences as if it had been done under his/her national law.

______________________________________________________________________________

[vinny]

In order for your girlfriend to qualify for a EEA family permit for Spain, she will have to supply "proof of the existence of a durable relationship with the Union citizen".

However, the directive further provides a provision that implies that the host member state must facilitate the entry and the residence of “the partner with whom the Union citizen has a durable relationship, duly attested” in Art. 3, 2b. This clause seemingly negates the previous passage of the directive that describes one of the family members as a partner in a registered partnership equivalent to marriage in the host member State. The clause does not specify the type of durable relation it entails nor what the duration should be. It, thus, offers a vague definition when it comes to the free movement of partners allowed to accompany a worker in another State in the EU.

As for the European Commission, it stated in an annexe document (SEC(2003)1293) it will interpret the notion of durable relationship as including:

same-sex marriage, registered partnership, legal cohabitation and common-law marriage.

In SEC(2003)1293:

- the concept of registered partner and durable relationship.

The definition given in Article 2(2)( b ) of the amended proposal included both registered partners and partners having a de facto relationship, if the law of the host Member State recognises this type of situation. The Council has decided to restrict this definition to registered partners, if the law of the host Member States treats registered partnerships as equivalent to marriage.

At the same time, the text of Article 3 has been amended to provide that any Member State must facilitate the entry and residence of the partner to whom the Union citizen is linked by a duly attested durable relationship. The Commission has accepted the approach proposed by the Council. While it is true that the definition of Article 2(2)( b ) is more limited than the text of the amended proposal, it must be considered that the content of Article 3 has been extended to include any type of durable relationship. The Commission considers that the concept of durable relationship may cover different situations: same-sex marriage, registered partnership, legal cohabitation and common-law marriage. The concept of facilitation has been clarified in recital 6a.

The Commission considers that the text of the common position represents a fair compromise which makes it possible to facilitate the right to free movement and residence of unmarried partners of Union citizens without imposing changes in the national law of the Member States.

The definition of "durable relationship, duly attested" is vague and its standard of proof may vary between different countries. The UK's interpretation may be too strict. Other countries' may be less strict. For example, Belgium suggests the following documents:

7. Supporting documents as proof that there is actual cohabitation and that your relationship is a durable one, such as: joint financial records, utility bills in both names, mortgage/rental agreement in both names, letters from friends and family, photographs, etc.

It is worth asking the Embassy of Spain what documents they would consider as sufficient for statisfying their interpretation of "durable relationship, duly attested" in relation to Article 3(2)( b ) of the European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC.

[Phil_ne_uk]

Vinny, thanks for your reply which seems to have put things into perspective apart from one thing that keeps popping up. where it reads

if the law of the host Member States treats registered partnerships as equivalent to marriage.

So I'm wondering if this includes Spain? However, I read this bit which I don't fully understand (my head's done in with all this reading! lol)

At the same time, the text of Article 3 has been amended to provide that any Member State must facilitate the entry and residence of the partner to whom the Union citizen is linked by a duly attested durable relationship.

Excuse my sounding a bit thick but, does the above mean that ALL member states must recognise this new directive and that it is now not up to the individual law of the particular member state, i.e. in this case, Spain? Once I know this answer I'm all armed ready to approach the Spanish embassy. I'll post the result of all this as soon as I know. Thanks agin especially to Vinny & Scouse!

Cheers

Phil