Overpriced medical care could bring down Thai health system

[Soutpeel]

this response is for ( soalbundy): I am going to have my hernia operated on the 2nd week of July in Isarn. Could you tell me how much your operation cost and a little about the procedure? (how long did it take, how much time did you spend in the hospital, any complications, how long were you down before being able to do anything normal?) My wife's school teachers got a quote from a private hospital in Sakon Nakhon for a private room for 3 days for 27,000 and non private room for 25,000. But I am thinking that is the Thai price. Any information you can give me would be of great help. Thanks.

Well that is cheap, I had hernia surgery some years back at Bangkok Rayong Hosptial and the job lot was around THB 80k with just on 3 days in (3rd day in was my own doing cos I didnt listen to the doctor ) and week on my back at home and 6 weeks before I was signed off to go back to work

[h82goslow]

but aren't all Bangkok hospitals more expensive than most other named hospitals? Seems to me that you are somehow paying in part for the name brand.

[Soutpeel]

but aren't all Bangkok hospitals more expensive than most other named hospitals? Seems to me that you are somehow paying in part for the name brand.

I am not paying for anything, my insurance pays,

the Bangkok Group of hospitals are private hospitals with all the latest kit/facilities and never had any issue with them in 14 years, are they more expensive that government hospitals ? Yes....have i ever been disappointed with the service ? no....in fact when I had my surgery done, my insurance which is out of the UK, called me and asked if there any more invoices coming that i had signed, as what the hospital had charged seemed very cheap for the surgery undertaken, pre/post care etc..

[soalbundy]

this response is for ( soalbundy): I am going to have my hernia operated on the 2nd week of July in Isarn. Could you tell me how much your operation cost and a little about the procedure? (how long did it take, how much time did you spend in the hospital, any complications, how long were you down before being able to do anything normal?) My wife's school teachers got a quote from a private hospital in Sakon Nakhon for a private room for 3 days for 27,000 and non private room for 25,000. But I am thinking that is the Thai price. Any information you can give me would be of great help. Thanks.

I have just replied to your private E-mail to me. The price seems about right but i paid an extra 10,000 Baht for a gold gauze to be put in which the doctor recommended a week before the OP but he left the decision up to me, after reading about my type of hernia on the internet i agreed with the doctor. I only spent one night in hospital.

Edited June 24, 2015 by soalbundy

[svensk1]

This article is trying to blame the wrong thing...that is, medical tourism/hub is causing the big price increase.

...

It's simply the private hospitals raising prices because they are able to based on their customer's willingness to pay higher pricese with inflation thrown in. The owners of the private hospitals are just pushing higher prices. Private hospitals are businesses and they will raise prices until their particular customer base starts declining or growing...I expect for many private hospitals in Thailand their foreigner/tourist customer base is very small to practically non-existent.

Agree with you there.

Idea for the government:

If you think private hospitals are making too much money, maybe you should open your own "private hospital"?

That way you can offer more convenience and better care to patients, and charge them accordingly.

Your government budget should be able to easily cover the setup costs, and if you charge fair prices for good service and good treatments I am sure you will steal away many, if not all, customers from private hospitals.

See Ramathibodi hospital as an example (government hospital which set up a hi-so clinic area where patients pay for their care but do get better facilities/treatment/customer care).

That way you actually solve the problem by competing! Private hospitals will be forced to lower their prices to stay competitive and instead of disrupting the market (which always comes at a high price in the end) you are turning this into a big win for the country as a whole (lower prices in private hospitals, extra income for the government, more choices of medical care for everybody, better opportunities for medical staff, etc).

[cumgranosalum]

Soutpeel ...........my humble apologies, here is me thinking I had made it crystal, I did not have any idea of the add ons till all was too late. Surgery carried out the day after being given the final price of 950k

..............if a car dealer gave you a price of 100k baht for a new gear box would you be happy with a bill in excess of double the amount?....I think not.

no I would in the first instance, query as to why the difference in price, but then if I had "insurance" for this occurrence, I wouldn't really care, as that's what I was paying the premiums for

Your insurance premiums are of course directly related to the charges made by hospitals...... The more they add on the more your premiums and everybody else's increase.

[Soutpeel]

Soutpeel ...........my humble apologies, here is me thinking I had made it crystal, I did not have any idea of the add ons till all was too late. Surgery carried out the day after being given the final price of 950k

..............if a car dealer gave you a price of 100k baht for a new gear box would you be happy with a bill in excess of double the amount?....I think not.

no I would in the first instance, query as to why the difference in price, but then if I had "insurance" for this occurrence, I wouldn't really care, as that's what I was paying the premiums for

Your insurance premiums are of course directly related to the charges made by hospitals...... The more they add on the more your premiums and everybody else's increase.

Of course, I don't pay the premium anyway the company does, but in the example cited, they don't double your premium do they ?..

[cumgranosalum]

what I see here is a lot of "middle-aged" men comparing the cost of various medical procedures predominantly carried out on geriatric patients........Thailand has a limited amount of doctors, medical staff and resources, so a sudden influx from abroad of people demanding these procedures cannot be good for the overall situation.

So in reference to the OP - "Overpriced medical care could bring down Thai health system" - the answer is a resounding "YES!"

[sickwaterbuffalo2]

what I see here is a lot of "middle-aged" men comparing the cost of various medical procedures predominantly carried out on geriatric patients........Thailand has a limited amount of doctors, medical staff and resources, so a sudden influx from abroad of people demanding these procedures cannot be good for the overall situation.

So in reference to the OP - "Overpriced medical care could bring down Thai health system" - the answer is a resounding "YES!"

Thats why medical care should be taken care of by the government and not private corporations like in the states,they dont like paying taxes for Obama care but rather silly military toys and then be a burden on other countrys medical facilitys making it almost impossible for the locals to get medical care at a decent cost.

[cumgranosalum]

what I see here is a lot of "middle-aged" men comparing the cost of various medical procedures predominantly carried out on geriatric patients........Thailand has a limited amount of doctors, medical staff and resources, so a sudden influx from abroad of people demanding these procedures cannot be good for the overall situation.

So in reference to the OP - "Overpriced medical care could bring down Thai health system" - the answer is a resounding "YES!"

Thats why medical care should be taken care of by the government and not private corporations like in the states,they dont like paying taxes for Obama care but rather silly military toys and then be a burden on other countrys medical facilitys making it almost impossible for the locals to get medical care at a decent cost.

the US medical /healthcare system is just a mess....and of course the result is a to of medical tourists...it would seem that these guys not only don't understand healthcare but have no idea about health either....perfect for a profit-based healthcare industry.

It is of course the elderly who require the most healthcare - countries with aging populations are increasingly feeling the strain of populations where 25% or more are soon going to be over 60.

Faced with a useless system at home, countries like America happily export their "geriatrics" to exploit other systems like Thailand's.

The problem that then results as all the healthcare professionals turn their back on Thailand's national healthcare and go chasing the "bigger" money from tourism and expats.

Edited June 25, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[svensk1]

The topic is about "Overpriced"

Price does matter. First of all, people ( by using examples)are trying to explain that the prices for Private Hospital Health Care in Thailand are reasonable. They are simply not over priced. The equipment and supplies for the most part, and even the prescription medicines in Private Hospitals here come from the west. Most of the people that complain about Thailand's medical expenses come from countries that have socialized medicine and those costs are supported by high taxes. Most of those countries have long waiting lines to see a specialist, and even longer waits for non-emergency surgeries.

If you have ever been to a Government Hospital in Thailand, you would know that the prices charged by private Hospitals have nothing to do with the service, the quality, or availability of health care at the public ones. It is apples to oranges.

Anyone that believes that they can get better health care at a Government Hospital in S.E. Asia should go there. It costs a fortune to build and equip a new Hospital , in Asia or the west. In many private Hospitals they have only one price schedule, for Thais, and foreigners alike. They compete with other private Hospitals . They do not compete with Thai government Hospitals. They are an integral part of the Thai Medical System. They are not an outside influence. They are also not subsidized by the Government. Thailand has one of the best Private Health Care Systems in the World! If it ain't broke....don't fix it.

When I first came to Thailand in 2002, the food at the street vendors cost 5 baht. Now they charge 25 baht. Land was less than a third of the cost now. Housing even less. It is called inflation. Get used to it....by the way it happened in the country you came from too.

[sickwaterbuffalo2]

The topic is about "Overpriced"

Price does matter. First of all, people ( by using examples)are trying to explain that the prices for Private Hospital Health Care in Thailand are reasonable. They are simply not over priced. The equipment and supplies for the most part, and even the prescription medicines in Private Hospitals here come from the west. Most of the people that complain about Thailand's medical expenses come from countries that have socialized medicine and those costs are supported by high taxes. Most of those countries have long waiting lines to see a specialist, and even longer waits for non-emergency surgeries.

If you have ever been to a Government Hospital in Thailand, you would know that the prices charged by private Hospitals have nothing to do with the service, the quality, or availability of health care at the public ones. It is apples to oranges.

Anyone that believes that they can get better health care at a Government Hospital in S.E. Asia should go there. It costs a fortune to build and equip a new Hospital , in Asia or the west. In many private Hospitals they have only one price schedule, for Thais, and foreigners alike. They compete with other private Hospitals . They do not compete with Thai government Hospitals. They are an integral part of the Thai Medical System. They are not an outside influence. They are also not subsidized by the Government. Thailand has one of the best Private Health Care Systems in the World! If it ain't broke....don't fix it.

When I first came to Thailand in 2002, the food at the street vendors cost 5 baht. Now they charge 25 baht. Land was less than a third of the cost now. Housing even less. It is called inflation. Get used to it....by the way it happened in the country you came from too.

Yes and in a lot of western country's a patient does not have to sign a document stating that hospital nor its staff will be held legally accountable for medical mal practice like in Thailand but yet it promotes itself as a medical hub customer service and accountability is still a big problem perhaps in Thailand? Always reed the small print.

Like the young British woman who died a few months back on the operating table of a quack plastic surgeon in Thailand who did not have a licence to practice medicine.

[cumgranosalum]

The topic is about "Overpriced"

Price does matter. First of all, people ( by using examples)are trying to explain that the prices for Private Hospital Health Care in Thailand are reasonable. They are simply not over priced. The equipment and supplies for the most part, and even the prescription medicines in Private Hospitals here come from the west. Most of the people that complain about Thailand's medical expenses come from countries that have socialized medicine and those costs are supported by high taxes. Most of those countries have long waiting lines to see a specialist, and even longer waits for non-emergency surgeries.

If you have ever been to a Government Hospital in Thailand, you would know that the prices charged by private Hospitals have nothing to do with the service, the quality, or availability of health care at the public ones. It is apples to oranges.

Anyone that believes that they can get better health care at a Government Hospital in S.E. Asia should go there. It costs a fortune to build and equip a new Hospital , in Asia or the west. In many private Hospitals they have only one price schedule, for Thais, and foreigners alike. They compete with other private Hospitals . They do not compete with Thai government Hospitals. They are an integral part of the Thai Medical System. They are not an outside influence. They are also not subsidized by the Government. Thailand has one of the best Private Health Care Systems in the World! If it ain't broke....don't fix it.

When I first came to Thailand in 2002, the food at the street vendors cost 5 baht. Now they charge 25 baht. Land was less than a third of the cost now. Housing even less. It is called inflation. Get used to it....by the way it happened in the country you came from too.

One can take issue with just about every point you’ve suggested.

Firstly you say “price does matter” - well nobody has suggested it doesn’t - the issue in the OP is OVER pricing damaging the Thai healthcare system

“It costs a fortune to build and equip a new Hospital , in Asia or the west. “ - except that it is a MUCH SMALLER fortune in Thailand

Your guessing of how healthcare systems are priced/costed is way off the mark..

Firstly one of the major costs is real estate - then labour - both ignored by your good self.

Then you suggest this

“even the prescription medicines in Private Hospitals here come from the west. “ - again this is not true - Thailand has a MASSIVE pharmaceutical industry that manufactures all sort of generic drugs - drugs that private hospitals are happy to sell you at the same price as the original international product.

“Most of the people that complain about Thailand's medical expenses come from countries that have socialized medicine and those costs are supported by high taxes.”

These countries are shown to pay considerably less per capita on healthcare than countries like the States that spends an astronomical proportion on private healthcare.

As for queues actually all countries have queues but in some you can pay to queue-jump - at the expense of poorer patients.

Then you suggest that “They compete with other private Hospitals . They do not compete with Thai government Hospitals. They are an integral part of the Thai Medical System.” - this is complete nonsense - private hospitals suck trained staff away from the government hospitals ands can monopolise the best locations and services - leaving the government hospitals to fight for every last penny.

“Thailand has one of the best Private Health Care Systems in the World!” so far everything you’ve said is wrong - and you haven’t even touched on staff training from doctors down through nurses to the most humble cleaner - it is unmonitored inconsistent and virtually un-assessed.......

when it comes to comeback in a Thai hospital private or not their is virtually no protection against negligence or bad care - and even if after years you proved your case your compensation would be chicken-feed.

Finally you cite “inflation” - and a bowl of noodles at 25 baht - well compare that to the cost of a meal for a western construction worker and you begin to get an idea of how much cheaper it is to build a hospital here......and how much opportunity those who think its “cheap” give them to overprice and overcharge.

Quite frankly if you are going to post on the Thai healthcare system it would seem logical to at least read up a bit on it - and other healthcare systems before putting finger to keyboard.....it would appear you have done none of that.

[Soutpeel]

The topic is about "Overpriced"

Price does matter. First of all, people ( by using examples)are trying to explain that the prices for Private Hospital Health Care in Thailand are reasonable. They are simply not over priced. The equipment and supplies for the most part, and even the prescription medicines in Private Hospitals here come from the west. Most of the people that complain about Thailand's medical expenses come from countries that have socialized medicine and those costs are supported by high taxes. Most of those countries have long waiting lines to see a specialist, and even longer waits for non-emergency surgeries.

If you have ever been to a Government Hospital in Thailand, you would know that the prices charged by private Hospitals have nothing to do with the service, the quality, or availability of health care at the public ones. It is apples to oranges.

Anyone that believes that they can get better health care at a Government Hospital in S.E. Asia should go there. It costs a fortune to build and equip a new Hospital , in Asia or the west. In many private Hospitals they have only one price schedule, for Thais, and foreigners alike. They compete with other private Hospitals . They do not compete with Thai government Hospitals. They are an integral part of the Thai Medical System. They are not an outside influence. They are also not subsidized by the Government. Thailand has one of the best Private Health Care Systems in the World! If it ain't broke....don't fix it.

When I first came to Thailand in 2002, the food at the street vendors cost 5 baht. Now they charge 25 baht. Land was less than a third of the cost now. Housing even less. It is called inflation. Get used to it....by the way it happened in the country you came from too.

Yes and in a lot of western country's a patient does not have to sign a document stating that hospital nor its staff will be held legally accountable for medical mal practice like in Thailand but yet it promotes itself as a medical hub customer service and accountability is still a big problem perhaps in Thailand? Always reed the small print.

Like the young British woman who died a few months back on the operating table of a quack plastic surgeon in Thailand who did not have a licence to practice medicine.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2628519/

interesting read on signing papers in "western countries" namely the US in this case Vs Malpractice

One suspects the countries you refer to are ones which offer "free" medical treatment for their citizens

Er how can the example you cite regarding the woman in BKK be malpractice ? seeing as the person concerned wasn't qualified to practice medicine in the first instance, your confusing two very different and separate discussions

[Soutpeel]

“It costs a fortune to build and equip a new Hospital , in Asia or the west. “ - except that it is a MUCH SMALLER fortune in Thaila

Is it really ?....given the specialist equipment typically found in modern Thai hospitals is all imported, how many local companies you know of building MRI or CAT scan machines in Thailand, further how much import tax is the builder of the hospital having to pay ?

[cumgranosalum]

“It costs a fortune to build and equip a new Hospital , in Asia or the west. “ - except that it is a MUCH SMALLER fortune in Thaila

Is it really ?....given the specialist equipment typically found in modern Thai hospitals is all imported, how many local companies you know of building MRI or CAT scan machines in Thailand, further how much import tax is the builder of the hospital having to pay ?

you're just making assumptions

firstly that the main cost is equipment - not so Staff and real estate are more.

secondly that the stuff is imported and you assume from the west.....in fact they can get stuff from home and China......as for MRI - as I understand it, they are made in Thailand, amongst others Siemens has a factory here - Thailand's leading industry is electronics manufacturing.

Edited June 25, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[mogoso]

Over the years, I've been satisfied with what I've had done at Chiang Mai Ram Hospital. The prices have been low and I get a 20% discount ( for old people ) and the service has been quick and professional. I have used the local Hospital trying to get a cortisone injection for my knee. Ended up they had no cortisone and gave me a shot of something (tramedol ?) for pain. Didn't help, but the cost of getting shot seeing a doctor and the admitting nurse was 77 baht. Now $2.50 usd isn't a lot of money, but it's not a place tourists would use

[Soutpeel]

“It costs a fortune to build and equip a new Hospital , in Asia or the west. “ - except that it is a MUCH SMALLER fortune in Thaila

Is it really ?....given the specialist equipment typically found in modern Thai hospitals is all imported, how many local companies you know of building MRI or CAT scan machines in Thailand, further how much import tax is the builder of the hospital having to pay ?

firstly it ISN"T all imported - you are just making assumptions....

seciondly my guess is you think it all comes from the west...well think again...there are plenty of Asian countries that make medical supplies - China springs to mind for a start.

there are many factors in setting up and running a large hospital and on almost every count Thailand can undrcut the "west" - but the area they undercut best is training and service.

I am making assumptions.... ...and the second line "my guess".....where did I say "from the West"...I said "imported" so stop making assumptions...."there are many factors setting up a hospital"...WOW I didn't know that..Thank you for that insight .

but anyway BKK Pattaya Hospital cost THB 450 million to build for the 350 bed hospital... so what's that 140 million dollars odd ?

and a comparable hospital in the US, with 185 beds cost USD 166 million, so yes cost less for more beds, but not the significant "undercutting" or cheapness your suggesting... ....its still a significant capital investment even for Thailand

http://www.actec.co.th/web/portfoliodetail.php?gid=3

Edited June 25, 2015 by Soutpeel

[sickwaterbuffalo2]

The topic is about "Overpriced"

Price does matter. First of all, people ( by using examples)are trying to explain that the prices for Private Hospital Health Care in Thailand are reasonable. They are simply not over priced. The equipment and supplies for the most part, and even the prescription medicines in Private Hospitals here come from the west. Most of the people that complain about Thailand's medical expenses come from countries that have socialized medicine and those costs are supported by high taxes. Most of those countries have long waiting lines to see a specialist, and even longer waits for non-emergency surgeries.

If you have ever been to a Government Hospital in Thailand, you would know that the prices charged by private Hospitals have nothing to do with the service, the quality, or availability of health care at the public ones. It is apples to oranges.

Anyone that believes that they can get better health care at a Government Hospital in S.E. Asia should go there. It costs a fortune to build and equip a new Hospital , in Asia or the west. In many private Hospitals they have only one price schedule, for Thais, and foreigners alike. They compete with other private Hospitals . They do not compete with Thai government Hospitals. They are an integral part of the Thai Medical System. They are not an outside influence. They are also not subsidized by the Government. Thailand has one of the best Private Health Care Systems in the World! If it ain't broke....don't fix it.

When I first came to Thailand in 2002, the food at the street vendors cost 5 baht. Now they charge 25 baht. Land was less than a third of the cost now. Housing even less. It is called inflation. Get used to it....by the way it happened in the country you came from too.

Yes and in a lot of western country's a patient does not have to sign a document stating that hospital nor its staff will be held legally accountable for medical mal practice like in Thailand but yet it promotes itself as a medical hub customer service and accountability is still a big problem perhaps in Thailand? Always reed the small print.

Like the young British woman who died a few months back on the operating table of a quack plastic surgeon in Thailand who did not have a licence to practice medicine.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2628519/

interesting read on signing papers in "western countries" namely the US in this case Vs Malpractice

One suspects the countries you refer to are ones which offer "free" medical treatment for their citizens

Er how can the example you cite regarding the woman in BKK be malpractice ? seeing as the person concerned wasn't qualified to practice medicine in the first instance, your confusing two very different and separate discussions

Such institutions of medicine would be checked on a regular basis by an order of physicians and quacks would never be allowed to operate and be jailed if need be.

And the topic is about the thai health system not the US.

[jackanapes]

I think at the end of the day the result will be back to the status quo nothing will be done because its a case of rocking the boat. private hospitals make a lot of money dealing with foreigners in operations and medical care and they are not going to change their modus operandi because somebody says they are charging too much so it will be a case of back to square one.