Grammar Trivia and Pet Peeves

[1900]

Anyone interested?

There is as we all know a grammatical rule that supersedes all others; if "everyone" uses it and understands it it's not errant. Sup dawg?

Peeve #1. Who is for people and that is for things. You wouldn't want to say .. My neighbor has a dog who barks too much. So why say .. My friend has a sister that talks too much? Officially that for people is acceptable but it sure sounds ugly.

Peeve #2. The world that, except in a few cases, can and should be eliminated. You said that you loved me .. You said you loved me. Now isn't that better?

Peeve #3. Talking/writing with word-choices way more advanced than your perceived level of wordsmithing makes you look bad.

Peeve #4. Trilingual is not a word, it's polyglot for three or more. et al is for more than two and it has no periods.

The more languages you learn the easier it gets. Logical.

Of all the methods that apply to retaining what you've learned; reading, writing, listening, speaking .. teaching it far exceeds the rest.

There's no T in often.

If you want to sound like a Brit just leave out the Hs .. Bloody ell mate!

[masuk]

I always thought it was those living south of the Canadian border who sound a bit odd, when they talk about 'erbs, instead of herbs. Maybe that's the way the French say it?

[faraday]

Reminds me of an old joke.....

Patient to Doctor:

"Oh Doctor, I've got an 'orrible 'eadache!"

Doctor replies:

" Just take two aspirants"

[chickenslegs]

I would not of thought their was so many grammar mistake's here. I suppose less people have gotten a good education.

[1900]

I always thought it was those living south of the Canadian border who sound a bit odd, when they talk about 'erbs, instead of herbs. Maybe that's the way the French say it?

.I say erbs. If fact if I had a student who said herbs I'd correct him.

It seems a lot of Canadians sound out those diphthongs, about, tournament, etc. There's a region in the USA where that's done too, around New Jersey, Baltimore, Delaware.

[1900]

I would not of thought their was so many grammar mistake's here. I suppose less people have gotten a good education.

IMO it's not always fitting to be too formal. In fact less formal works better than too formal. Reminds me of that dilemma, would you rather be the only one in the swimming pool with a swim suit or the only one without?

[SlyAnimal]

Yeah see 'erbs would be on a list of my pet peeves, as would "free" instead of "three".

But then I like to pronounce the letters in words e.g. I have this silly notion that Ireland should actually be pronounced "Ire-Land" not "I-Land".

As a kiwi though, there are probably tonnes of casual speech patterns and words which I pronounce differently to the majority which are thus "annoying" to others lol. Since things simply sound "wrong" to our ears of they're different, regardless of who's "technically" correct. Even spelling words the American vs English way can be annoying (e.g. tire vs tyre).

[1900]

I'm blind to British/Canadian spelling differences. Like centre, honour, it's all the same to me.

Something that's always amazed me is how well a lot of Brit actors do the American accent so well, but I can only think of one Yank who did the British well, and he wasn't an actor. The best Brit IMO is Gary Oldman, Tom Hardy does well, Minnie Driver, Christian Bale (of course he's been acting since he was in nappies). Hugh Laurie. Heath Ledger was an Assie.

[Loaded]

relative pronouns

read up on defining/non-defining and subject/object relative clauses and all will be revealed

[zeichen]

".I say erbs. If fact if I had a student who said herbs I'd correct him."

I would never correct a student on any approved pronunciation, spelling, or grammar.

My daughter is often forced to say rubber instead of eraser. She is also criticized for saying Zee instead of Zed because as I quote "English was invented by the English and I don't accept American English". My five year old was quite upset and said "This is how we say it in my family."

[Bredbury Blue]

I always thought it was those living south of the Canadian border who sound a bit odd, when they talk about 'erbs, instead of herbs. Maybe that's the way the French say it?

.I say erbs. If fact if I had a student who said herbs I'd correct him.

It seems a lot of Canadians sound out those diphthongs, about, tournament, etc. There's a region in the USA where that's done too, around New Jersey, Baltimore, Delaware.

If you erbs in the north of england people will think you're wierd. There's more than one way people in britain speak. Where I'm from people don't pronounce all words like the Queen but thats part of the beauty of the country.

[Saan]

The misuse of the word unique always grates. Something or someone cannot be very unique.

The mispronunciation of trait, the last t is silent, is another thing that foolishly peeves me.

It is not easy being pedant.

[keithcresswell]

Peeve #2. The world that, except in a few cases, can and should be eliminated. You said that you loved me .. You said you loved me. Now isn't that better?

Presumably that's a silent L in word.

[Guest]

I could could care less.

(25% of you will recognize this as a joke, the rest .. not so much. Please do not scold me if this went over your head.)

[quandow]

The misuse of the word unique always grates. Something or someone cannot be very unique.

The mispronunciation of trait, the last t is silent, is another thing that foolishly peeves me.

It is not easy being pedant.

You sure about "trait?" I think you're running solo on that pronunciation:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/pronunciation/british/trait

[masuk]

".I say erbs. If fact if I had a student who said herbs I'd correct him."

I would never correct a student on any approved pronunciation, spelling, or grammar.

My daughter is often forced to say rubber instead of eraser. She is also criticized for saying Zee instead of Zed because as I quote "English was invented by the English and I don't accept American English". My five year old was quite upset and said "This is how we say it in my family."

Reminds my of our secretary in Australia, who came from (hailed?) the USA.

She always carried in the top pocket of her lab coat, an English-American dictionary.

We had just moved into our newly finished building, and "E" asked me if she could have a sign outside her office say 'INCREASE".

I explained to her that increases are normally made after one has been employed for 12 months.

Nope, that's not what she meant, so out with the Eng-Am dictionary. A quick flick through the pages, and she pointed at the word INQUIRIES!

"Inquiry" says me. Why on earth do you want to hold an Inquiry. What's the big problem?

A few more cross-purpose questions, and all is revealed. 'E' wanted a sign which said "ENQUIRIES".

So: different spelling, different pronunciation, totally different meaning. EN-QUIR-IES.

Yes, I also made the big mistake of asking her for a rubber. I did the same in the UK when I asked for a roll of DUREX. Seems transparent sticky tape has a slightly different meaning there.

Why doncha lern to speek proper like? Come to Aussie and we'll even teach you some totally new words!!

eg. emus, chooks, dunnies (old aboriginal curse)

[bigt3116]

The misuse of the word unique always grates. Something or someone cannot be very unique.

The mispronunciation of trait, the last t is silent, is another thing that foolishly peeves me.

It is not easy being pedant.

3 dictionaries would beg to differ, I know which I will trust. :-)

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/pronunciation/british/trait

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/pronunciation/british/trait

http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/trait

[Saan]

The misuse of the word unique always grates. Something or someone cannot be very unique.

The mispronunciation of trait, the last t is silent, is another thing that foolishly peeves me.

It is not easy being pedant.

You sure about "trait?" I think you're running solo on that pronunciation:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/pronunciation/british/trait

I am sure.

From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary

noun \ˈtrāt, British usually ˈtrā\

Edited June 26, 2015 by Saan

[neeray]

I always thought it was those living south of the Canadian border who sound a bit odd, when they talk about 'erbs, instead of herbs. Maybe that's the way the French say it?

South of the border, it does get awkward. Many say New Yak, not New York; a car is pronounced cah .......

And they recognize immediately that I am Canadian because many of us add "eh" at the end of a sentence ( and I am guilty of that).

While I understand that the first language of many Thaivisa members is not English, I accept that and say good on them for trying. But I find it difficult

to understand how English-first-language members fail to proof read their words. The most simple error (of versus or, on) can make it very difficult to quickly read and comprehend a comment.

But heh, none of us are perfect.

[captainhornblower]

Peeve #2. The world that, except in a few cases, can and should be eliminated. You said that you loved me .. You said you loved me. Now isn't that better?

According to you should the last sentence not read 'Now isn't better'

[Saan]

The misuse of the word unique always grates. Something or someone cannot be very unique.

The mispronunciation of trait, the last t is silent, is another thing that foolishly peeves me.

It is not easy being pedant.

You sure about "trait?" I think you're running solo on that pronunciation:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/pronunciation/british/trait

I am sure.

From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary

noun \ˈtrāt, British usually ˈtrā\

The same goes for medicine which used to be pronounced without the first I.

Bloody common usage and living language and all that rot. I'm sticking with Latin - "si nihil mutat, nihil mutat".

[dotpoom]

I would not of thought their was so many grammar mistake's here. I suppose less people have gotten a good education.

IMO it's not always fitting to be too formal. In fact less formal works better than too formal. Reminds me of that dilemma, would you rather be the only one in the swimming pool with a swim suit or the only one without?

Two Mothers at their sons "Passing out Parade" in the Army...."Oh Mary"...says one to the other...."See how my Johnny is the only one in step, all the others are out of step".

[gchurch259]

A small one for me is Can/May, I can physically do it but I may not because I do not have permission or right to do it.

[smotherb]

".I say erbs. If fact if I had a student who said herbs I'd correct him."

I would never correct a student on any approved pronunciation, spelling, or grammar.

My daughter is often forced to say rubber instead of eraser. She is also criticized for saying Zee instead of Zed because as I quote "English was invented by the English and I don't accept American English". My five year old was quite upset and said "This is how we say it in my family."

Teach your daughter to correct the English. The English language is German in origin, just like the Queen.

[1900]

Peeve #2. The world that, except in a few cases, can and should be eliminated. You said that you loved me .. You said you loved me. Now isn't that better?

According to you should the last sentence not read 'Now isn't better'

I know that you love me. Let me help you through this. See, I know is a complete sentence, so is you love me. In days of old the rule was to divide two complete sentences with that. But that changed. RU OK now?

[1900]

How about dangled participles, She kissed me on the bus.

[1900]

I always thought it was those living south of the Canadian border who sound a bit odd, when they talk about 'erbs, instead of herbs. Maybe that's the way the French say it?

South of the border, it does get awkward. Many say New Yak, not New York; a car is pronounced cah .......

And they recognize immediately that I am Canadian because many of us add "eh" at the end of a sentence ( and I am guilty of that).

While I understand that the first language of many Thaivisa members is not English, I accept that and say good on them for trying. But I find it difficult

to understand how English-first-language members fail to proof read their words. The most simple error (of versus or, on) can make it very difficult to quickly read and comprehend a comment.

But heh, none of us are perfect.

Yep, you'll hear that soft R all the way down to the Northern Mid Atlantic states. In Southern California it's so hard it'll hurt your face and rattle your fillings.

[Linzz]

I'm blind to British/Canadian spelling differences. Like centre, honour, it's all the same to me.

Something that's always amazed me is how well a lot of Brit actors do the American accent so well, but I can only think of one Yank who did the British well, and he wasn't an actor. The best Brit IMO is Gary Oldman, Tom Hardy does well, Minnie Driver, Christian Bale (of course he's been acting since he was in nappies). Hugh Laurie. Heath Ledger was an Assie.

Don't you mean Aussie?

[zeichen]

Language is biological and always changing. In my life time which isn't really that long some rules have gone back and forth twice.

There was a theorist that said the problem is that the lowest common denominator is the one with the most influence on language. Since uneducated people reproduce 3-4 times that of educated people in a few generations intelligence will be bred out.

Language changes take some getting used to and no one is forcing anyone to change, you just have to be tolerant that others have. You will also be dated by your word choices. I had a colleague that would always say "That is a nice Frock". None of the Thai women in the office new what he was talking about. I suggested perhaps using terminology that they might know like shirt. "Frock is the proper term, so why should I change. I am trying to elevate their verbal skills"? I said I thought you were trying to give a compliment and left it at that.

Same with the use of poorly instead of sick. It just isn't utilized that often so if you ask "Do you feel poorly"? No one will really no what you are talking about and might assume that you are asking them if they are poor financially.

Language is more than just vocabulary and grammar it is also filled with cultural context. If you translate words directly they might not have the same understanding. In Thailand if someone comes up to you and says did you eat yet? They are just greeting you. For most westerners that question is usually followed with an invitation to lunch. Here not always.

I had a group of students study in the US for an exchange program. One night a kid hurt his leg but it was just a minor scrape. The leader of the group called the principal and said we need to go to the hospital ... injured his leg. The principal was frantic thinking the student broke his leg. Though they used proper English, the cultural context of word choices implied a greater sense of urgency. In Asia people go to the Hospital for everything. In the US it is usually just for emergencies or serious problems.

I think the overall thing is not to make blanket rules and statements to students. My wife once was in a class and was asked what she did last night. Her reply was "I took a bath." The NES teacher said, No, you took a shower. No one uses the word bath. My wife said " I didn't take a shower, I took a bath in the bathtub."

Or when a teacher says "No one talks like that!!!" Really should say that unless you are absolutely certain. I think stating " I don't use it that way, this is how I would say it..." Leaves room but also encourages students to follow your lead.

Language absolutes are quite futile as language and knowledge of language are always evolving.

[bazza40]

This is the type of pedantry with which I will not up with put.