New UK visa changes... Earn over 35,000£ or get out!

[transam]

I wonder what percentage of Brits earn so much???

Perhaps the UK gov, who are desperately trying to balance books, are fed up with giving hand outs to immigrants, extended foreign families, and migrants who never paid into the system for a longish period or never.

Perhaps the UK gov are saying, if you can PAY your own way here we are OK. If not, stay in your own country, work there, or let your country take care of you......

[micmichd]

Then every foreign family or country should come up to UK and say:

We paid for education and you take advantage of this education. We want our investments in HR back from UK.

Also there should be personal accounts for taxes and contributions to the social security systems, to enable foreigners to take their claims back home when they leave UK, or get their payments back.

Edited June 27, 2015 by micmichd

[transam]

Then every foreign family or country should come up to UK and say:

We paid for education and you take advantage of this education. We want our investments in HR back from UK.

Don't understand............

[Bernard Flint]

I wonder what percentage of Brits earn so much???

It seems many cant even show the 19,000gbp to bring their tilak on board in the uk

[micmichd]

Then every foreign family or country should come up to UK and say:

We paid for education and you take advantage of this education. We want our investments in HR back from UK.

HR means Human Resources.

It costs money to train someone for a qualified job. I suggest that this money gets refunded from the country where a foreigner works, in this case from UK.

Don't understand............

[transam]

Then every foreign family or country should come up to UK and say:

We paid for education and you take advantage of this education. We want our investments in HR back from UK.

HR means Human Resources.

It costs money to train someone for a qualified job. I suggest that this money gets refunded from the country where a foreigner works, in this case from UK.

Don't understand............

So our trained folk who moved to foreign lands, those lands must pay the UK back.....?

The majority of folk creeping into the UK ain't had an education, so where does the UK claim........?

[micmichd]

Sounds harsh, but: Yes. Employers should pay back.

Also harsh: No welfare for those who don't go to school and never worked in UK. Where "work" should include parental work.

Too harsh to be realistic, I know, as it would mean to let some people die of starvation. But the current nanny state system seems not to work either.

Maybe foreigneds who come to UK could maybe be granted a tax bonus if they were trained in their home country, thus easing the burden of minimum income eg.

Edited June 27, 2015 by micmichd

[transam]

Sounds harsh, but: Yes. Employers should pay back.

Also harsh: No welfare for those who don't go to school and never worked in UK. Where "work" should include parental work.

Too harsh to be realistic, I know, as it would mean to let some people die of starvation. But the current nanny state system seems not to work either.

Nobody starves in the UK, immigrant, migrant, whatever........

[micmichd]

Sounds harsh, but: Yes. Employers should pay back.

Also harsh: No welfare for those who don't go to school and never worked in UK. Where "work" should include parental work.

Too harsh to be realistic, I know, as it would mean to let some people die of starvation. But the current nanny state system seems not to work either.

Nobody starves in the UK, immigrant, migrant, whatever........

I doubt it.

Anyway, in many families in the "Third world"all family members starve for the education of just one family member and his/her chance to get a job in the West.

[transam]

Sounds harsh, but: Yes. Employers should pay back.

Also harsh: No welfare for those who don't go to school and never worked in UK. Where "work" should include parental work.

Too harsh to be realistic, I know, as it would mean to let some people die of starvation. But the current nanny state system seems not to work either.

Nobody starves in the UK, immigrant, migrant, whatever........

I doubt it.

Anyway, in many families in the "Third world"all family members starve for the education of just one family member and his/her chance to get a job in the West.

Why is that.....?

[micmichd]

Sounds harsh, but: Yes. Employers should pay back.

Also harsh: No welfare for those who don't go to school and never worked in UK. Where "work" should include parental work.

Too harsh to be realistic, I know, as it would mean to let some people die of starvation. But the current nanny state system seems not to work either.

Nobody starves in the UK, immigrant, migrant, whatever........

I doubt it.

Anyway, in many families in the "Third world"all family members starve for the education of just one family member and his/her chance to get a job in the West.

Why is that.....?

No welfare benefits from government.

[transam]

So go somewhere for benefits...?

[7by7]

I wonder what percentage of Brits earn so much???

Perhaps the UK gov, who are desperately trying to balance books, are fed up with giving hand outs to immigrants, extended foreign families, and migrants who never paid into the system for a longish period or never.

Perhaps the UK gov are saying, if you can PAY your own way here we are OK. If not, stay in your own country, work there, or let your country take care of you......

Transam,, your remarks above show that you have zero knowledge of what access to public funds immigrants, including family members of British citizens and Tier 2 migrants, have.

Basically it's none; see Public Funds for more details; that's why their visa states in big, bold letters "NO ACCESS TO PUBLIC FUNDS"

In this topic we are talking about Tier 2 migrants who have come to the UK to work.

They are working, they are paying UK income tax and NICs.

But not only do they still have zero access to public funds, since April this year they also have to pay the £200 per year they are applying to stay in the UK NHS surcharge in advance when they apply for their visa; even if they are coming to the UK to fill the staff shortages in the NHS!

To get their Tier 2 visa in the first place they have to be sponsored and, once in the UK, employed by an approved sponsor. If they leave their employment with that sponsor for any reason they can't claim any public funds, not even contribution based ones for which they have paid NICs. In most circumstances they have to leave the UK. This is because their reason for being in the UK no longer exists and so their Tier 2 visa is no longer valid. They have to go home or be in the UK illegally.

Of course, those who are in the UK cannot claim public funds because they are in the UK illegally.

As you will know if you have read the whole topic, after 6 years in the UK Tier 2 workers have to go home, unless they are by that time earning above £35K; which most health workers wont be.

Can they claim back any of the income tax and NICs they paid whilst working in the UK? Of course not!

With the excessive, above cost, fee for a Tier 2 visa, the NHS surcharge and the fact that they will have to leave the UK after 6 years, is it any wonder that the foreign healthcare workers the NHS needs so much to fill the staff shortages created by the short sightedness of this and previous governments are starting to go elsewhere?

[transam]

So why are migrants given permission to work in the UK able to claim benefits.....?

Sure I do NOT know about resent stuff, I admit that.

[7by7]

Sounds harsh, but: Yes. Employers should pay back.

Also harsh: No welfare for those who don't go to school and never worked in UK. Where "work" should include parental work.

Too harsh to be realistic, I know, as it would mean to let some people die of starvation. But the current nanny state system seems not to work either.

Nobody starves in the UK, immigrant, migrant, whatever........

Breadline Britain: Scandal of hungry children relying on charity to fight off malnutrition

Hunger in Britain is becoming 'public health emergency' as number of people turning to food banks to feed families soars

Parents skipping meals so children don't go hungry as families struggle with longest cost of living squeeze in 60 years

Of course, hunger in the UK is nothing like the situation in many third world countries; but to say that nobody starves in the UK shows a complete ignorance of the facts.

Appalling though the situation is, of course, it has nothing to do with the subject of this topic.

[transam]

Sounds harsh, but: Yes. Employers should pay back.

Also harsh: No welfare for those who don't go to school and never worked in UK. Where "work" should include parental work.

Too harsh to be realistic, I know, as it would mean to let some people die of starvation. But the current nanny state system seems not to work either.

Nobody starves in the UK, immigrant, migrant, whatever........

Breadline Britain: Scandal of hungry children relying on charity to fight off malnutrition

Hunger in Britain is becoming 'public health emergency' as number of people turning to food banks to feed families soars

Parents skipping meals so children don't go hungry as families struggle with longest cost of living squeeze in 60 years

Of course, hunger in the UK is nothing like the situation in many third world countries; but to say that nobody starves in the UK shows a complete ignorance of the facts.

Appalling though the situation is, of course, it has nothing to do with the subject of this topic.

iPhones rule.......Food second......

[7by7]

So why are migrants given permission to work in the UK able to claim benefits.....?

I though my saying in the relevant post "Transam,, your remarks above show that you have zero knowledge of what access to public funds immigrants, including family members of British citizens and Tier 2 migrants, have. Basically it's none; see Public Funds for more details; that's why their visa states in big, bold letters "NO ACCESS TO PUBLIC FUNDS" made it perfectly clear that they are not able to claim benefits!

What it says in the Public funds leaflet linked to and in the link I provided to the UKVI Tier 2 (general) visa page; which clealy says under "What you can't do" that a Tier 2 migrant can't claim public funds, should also have made it clear, I'd have thought!

Sure I do NOT know about resent(sic) stuff, I admit that.

This is not recent.

Work permit holders, both under the system introduced in 2011 and those before that, have never been able to claim public funds.

Family migrants, under the rules prior to 9/7/12 and those since, whether they are working or not, have never been able to claim public funds until they have ILR, which now takes at least 5 years to get.

Foreign students have never been able to claim public funds.

All the above can work and pay income tax and NICs; but they cannot claim benefits.

Well, they can claim; but they wont get anything.

[7by7]

Sounds harsh, but: Yes. Employers should pay back.

Also harsh: No welfare for those who don't go to school and never worked in UK. Where "work" should include parental work.

Too harsh to be realistic, I know, as it would mean to let some people die of starvation. But the current nanny state system seems not to work either.

Nobody starves in the UK, immigrant, migrant, whatever........

Breadline Britain: Scandal of hungry children relying on charity to fight off malnutrition

Hunger in Britain is becoming 'public health emergency' as number of people turning to food banks to feed families soars

Parents skipping meals so children don't go hungry as families struggle with longest cost of living squeeze in 60 years

Of course, hunger in the UK is nothing like the situation in many third world countries; but to say that nobody starves in the UK shows a complete ignorance of the facts.

Appalling though the situation is, of course, it has nothing to do with the subject of this topic.

iPhones rule.......Food second......

yes, some parents are scroungers and may agree with you that an iPhone is more important than feeding their children.

But the majority of those mothers in the UK who are struggling to feed their children would not.

[transam]

So why are migrants given permission to work in the UK able to claim benefits.....?

I though my saying in the relevant post "Transam,, your remarks above show that you have zero knowledge of what access to public funds immigrants, including family members of British citizens and Tier 2 migrants, have. Basically it's none; see Public Funds for more details; that's why their visa states in big, bold letters "NO ACCESS TO PUBLIC FUNDS" made it perfectly clear that they are not able to claim benefits!

What it says in the Public funds leaflet linked to and in the link I provided to the UKVI Tier 2 (general) visa page; which clealy says under "What you can't do" that a Tier 2 migrant can't claim public funds, should also have made it clear, I'd have thought!

Sure I do NOT know about resent(sic) stuff, I admit that.

This is not recent.

Work permit holders, both under the system introduced in 2011 and those before that, have never been able to claim public funds.

Family migrants, under the rules prior to 9/7/12 and those since, whether they are working or not, have never been able to claim public funds until they have ILR, which now takes at least 5 years to get.

Foreign students have never been able to claim public funds.

All the above can work and pay income tax and NICs; but they cannot claim benefits.

Well, they can claim; but they wont get anything.

Migrants have been claiming benefits, sure a couple of years back I read it, but they DID.........

Are YOU saying they never..?

[7by7]

If you read that migrants are claiming benefits in the UK then either:

• they were doing so in contravention of their visa or leave to remain, i.e. illegally; or
• they had been in the UK long enough to have ILR and so were able to legally claim; or
• your source got their facts wrong.

I suspect it's the third in most cases.

Different rules do apply to EEA migrants, though. Just as British migrants living in another EEA state can claim benefits in that state, so can EEA migrants living in the UK; as long as they do not become an unreasonable burden upon the state.

Now that's cleared up, can we get back on topic?

Edited June 27, 2015 by 7by7

[Jay Sata]

The rules for extended Tier 2 are simple. This visa allows a person to come and work in the UK for a limited period of time.

It is not a back door method of gaining permanent residence.

You can come to the UK with a Tier 2 (General) visa for a maximum of 5 years and 14 days, or the time given on your certificate of sponsorship plus 1 month, whichever is shorter.

Your stay must start no more than 14 days before the start date on your certificate of sponsorship.

You can apply to extend this visa for up to another 5 years, as long as your total stay is not more than 6 years.

source https://www.gov.uk/tier-2-general

With regards to the cost of the visa,£428 for the initial three years plus the health surcharge, this is quite modest and is usually paid by the sponsor.

These visas are not meant to be a long time fix for whatever worker shortage we have in the UK. Many of the places left by returning Asian nationals

are now being taken by those from the EU

[Somtamme]

One area, as already mentioned, which will be hard hit by this rule, which was actually introduced in 2011 but has only now come to the media's and therefore the public's attention, is the NHS.

Why does the NHS recruit nurses and doctors from outside the EEA, let alone outside the UK?

Because they cannot recruit enough from within.

Not only does this absurd rule mean that non EEA national nurses will have to leave after 6 years, it also makes it harder to recruit these much needed people in the first place.

Were you a non EEA national nurse looking at overseas job offers, which would you choose; the UK where you know you'll probably be kicked out after 6 years, or another country where you know you'll be allowed to stay indefinitely after a reasonable qualifying period?

Migrant salary rules may cost NHS nurse jobs, union warns

.....British Medical Association Dr Mark Porter, speaking at the doctor's conference which is also taking place this week, also came to the defence of people from abroad who are working in the NHS.

"What did we hear in the election campaign from politicians of several parties?

"We were told immigrants are filling up our GP surgeries and our hospitals.

"Well they are. They're called doctors. And nurses. And porters and cleaners and clinical scientists. And without them, the NHS would be on its knees."

Exactly, that's my point and I'm glad your on the same wavelength. Before introducing such a tough new qualifying criteria, there should have been proper consultation on any impacts. It's the job of civil servants to prepare these reports, and it is for the politicians to vote on the best option. It is however, becoming more usual, as would be expected with less public sector employees, for less scrutiny applied before these policies are introduced.

[losworld]

Who elected Cameron and these jokers? Time for a third party in England.

The problem here is while they will refuse these people they will let the Chinese and Russian oligarchs easy entrance to a life of luxury pushing up real estate so high that only the rich can live where your family once lived. What ever happened to compassionate immigration policies?

[Jay Sata]

Who elected Cameron and these jokers? Time for a third party in England.

The problem here is while they will refuse these people they will let the Chinese and Russian oligarchs easy entrance to a life of luxury pushing up real estate so high that only the rich can live where your family once lived. What ever happened to compassionate immigration policies?

You cannot blame Cameron for the current rules.

The system was changed under the old Labour government and Tier 2 was phased in between 2008 and 2010 when Brown ran the UK.

Migrants under this system are here for a limited period and are not allowed to settle. The reason for the fixed term is to allow UK employers time to address the shortage of staff and train local replacements.

There are strict controls on employers trying to recruit staff from overseas on Tier 2 visa. The position has to be on a list of occupations and must be advertised in job centres for at least 28 days without applicants coming forward.

As far as fees are concerned there is discussion on adding a levy on each Tier 2 visa to fund UK training places. As I mentioned earlier we have a severe shortage of training places for doctors and nurses.

In terms of immigration control the government want to reduce our dependancy on overseas labour and replace them with UK residents.

You might want to have a a look at this BBC article to see the broader picture.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29594642

Edited June 29, 2015 by Jay Sata

[micmichd]

and why is the foreign wife of a British citizen regarded as an immigrant?

[Jay Sata]

and why is the foreign wife of a British citizen regarded as an immigrant?

We are discussing Tier 2 here not marriage visas.

There is a big difference.

[green job]

and why is the foreign wife of a British citizen regarded as an immigrant?

Yes Why?? I will tell you why micm,because the UK and EU goverments could not give a toss about normal people, Only money talks. You can come from any country,even Mars,as long as your loaded. Money talks,and changes the rules every time.And that goes for all countrys Elite visa my arse!!!!

[green job]

and why is the foreign wife of a British citizen regarded as an immigrant?

We are discussing Tier 2 here not marriage visas.

There is a big difference.

Its all linked ALL ok

[theoldgit]

and why is the foreign wife of a British citizen regarded as an immigrant?

We are discussing Tier 2 here not marriage visas.

There is a big difference.

Its all linked ALL ok

No they're not all linked at all,

Jay Sata is spot on with his response, this thread is about Tier 2 visas, not Settlement Visas for Spouses, as he says, and has been said previously, they are totally different with different criteria and rules.

and why is the foreign wife of a British citizen regarded as an immigrant?

It's because that's what they are. The definition of Immigrant is "a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country", and that's what they're doing, it's the same term throughout the world.

[theoldgit]

I've removed a couple of posts, please let's keep this discussion on the actual topic.