New UK visa changes... Earn over 35,000£ or get out!

[theoldgit]

Post nothing to do with the subject, and offensive, removed.

[micmichd]

What is more important: A citizenship or a family membership?

[bobrussell]

What is more important: A citizenship or a family membership?

Those at risk of being made to comply with their visa restrictions are not eligible for citizenship. Tier 2 visas are and always have been short term visas and do not lead to settlement

Those on tier 2 visas who enter long-term relationships with a settled person are fully entitled to apply for a settlement visa based on that relationship.

[teatree]

Who elected Cameron and these jokers? Time for a third party in England.

The problem here is while they will refuse these people they will let the Chinese and Russian oligarchs easy entrance to a life of luxury pushing up real estate so high that only the rich can live where your family once lived. What ever happened to compassionate immigration policies?

There is a third party, UKIP, with more than 12% of the vote.

Unforuntately, under the current undemocratic 1st past the post system the popular vote translated to only 1 seat.

Time for electoral reform!

[teatree]

The EU commission are appointed by democratically elected politicians and, as you say, all decisions have to be ratified by the European Parliament. You post sounds like UKIP talking points with little relation to the facts.

The EU Commision is unelected by the people of Europe and that is not democracy.

The most basic structure of democracy is when a representative is voted in by the electorate. The electorate can then lobby the representative if they want something changed and vote them out if they are unhappy with the results. There is a clear link between the people and the politicians.

With the EU there is no link. The people of Europe have nothing but a big void between them and the executive arm of the EU, the Commission. The Parliament is just a big rubber stamping committiee, the Commission is when the power resides being the only body that initiates legislation.

And not a single member of the public gets to vote on them.

I doubt whether most people in the EU even know the name of the president, the head of the group that can introduce EU wide legislation that supercedes individual members state national law!

[brewsterbudgen]

The EU commission are appointed by democratically elected politicians and, as you say, all decisions have to be ratified by the European Parliament. You post sounds like UKIP talking points with little relation to the facts.

The EU Commision is unelected by the people of Europe and that is not democracy.

The most basic structure of democracy is when a representative is voted in by the electorate. The electorate can then lobby the representative if they want something changed and vote them out if they are unhappy with the results. There is a clear link between the people and the politicians.

With the EU there is no link. The people of Europe have nothing but a big void between them and the executive arm of the EU, the Commission. The Parliament is just a big rubber stamping committiee, the Commission is when the power resides being the only body that initiates legislation.

And not a single member of the public gets to vote on them.

I doubt whether most people in the EU even know the name of the president, the head of the group that can introduce EU wide legislation that supercedes individual members state national law!

People vote for MEPs and the individual European governments, who are obviously elected, appoint the Commission members. Something as huge as the EU needs the equivalent of the UK civil service to run it.

Is it perfect? Of course not and I can completely understand how some, like UKIP, want out. They'll get their chance in the referendum.

[samran]

Who elected Cameron and these jokers? Time for a third party in England.

The problem here is while they will refuse these people they will let the Chinese and Russian oligarchs easy entrance to a life of luxury pushing up real estate so high that only the rich can live where your family once lived. What ever happened to compassionate immigration policies?

There is a third party, UKIP, with more than 12% of the vote.

Unforuntately, under the current undemocratic 1st past the post system the popular vote translated to only 1 seat.

Time for electoral reform!

you had your chance a few years back, and voted against it.

now the radical conservatives are complaining for the elctorate being, well, conservative....

[samran]

If you read that migrants are claiming benefits in the UK then either:

• they were doing so in contravention of their visa or leave to remain, i.e. illegally; or
• they had been in the UK long enough to have ILR and so were able to legally claim; or
• your source got their facts wrong.

I suspect it's the third in most cases.

Different rules do apply to EEA migrants, though. Just as British migrants living in another EEA state can claim benefits in that state, so can EEA migrants living in the UK; as long as they do not become an unreasonable burden upon the state.

Now that's cleared up, can we get back on topic?

My HSMP visa in 2004 had a big note on it: 'No recourse to public funds'. Five simple words that fear mongerers don't seem to be able to read.

Anyway, I don't get this thread. People are complaining, wanting the government to 'get tough on migration'. So it does. And then they complain about it?

[micmichd]

The situation is absurd (to say it politely).

People need immigrants as labour force, but they don't want them as humans beings

[theoldgit]

My HSMP visa in 2004 had a big note on it: 'No recourse to public funds'. Five simple words that fear mongerers don't seem to be able to read.

Anyway, I don't get this thread. People are complaining, wanting the government to 'get tough on migration'. So it does. And then they complain about it?

Indeed you're correct on both points, well only to a certain extent on the second point.

The UKVI are equally to blame on the first point, as you rightly say they stamp "No recourse to public funds" on the visa, and then with the next breath refuse applicants as they're not satisfied they will not seek public funds in the UK - you just try and get any public funds you're not entitled to whilst in the UK.

Yes the Great British Public are up in arms about the perception that there are waves of immigrants waiting in Calais to take their jobs, and HMG are picking off the easy targets, the nurses and the like. The biggest problem is that their insufficient training for these jobs, though I believe it's now being improved, and the GBP wants these jobs filled now, so the NHS Trust recruit from wherever they can.

HMG has set an arbitrary lower limit for skilled workers and some of the hard to fill jobs fall below the line. I'm afraid that this is a problem caused by HMG and doesn't address the actual issue.

[samran]

My HSMP visa in 2004 had a big note on it: 'No recourse to public funds'. Five simple words that fear mongerers don't seem to be able to read.

Anyway, I don't get this thread. People are complaining, wanting the government to 'get tough on migration'. So it does. And then they complain about it?

Indeed you're correct on both points, well only to a certain extent on the second point.

The UKVI are equally to blame on the first point, as you rightly say they stamp "No recourse to public funds" on the visa, and then with the next breath refuse applicants as they're not satisfied they will not seek public funds in the UK - you just try and get any public funds you're not entitled to whilst in the UK.

Yes the Great British Public are up in arms about the perception that there are waves of immigrants waiting in Calais to take their jobs, and HMG are picking off the easy targets, the nurses and the like. The biggest problem is that their insufficient training for these jobs, though I believe it's now being improved, and the GBP wants these jobs filled now, so the NHS Trust recruit from wherever they can.

HMG has set an arbitrary lower limit for skilled workers and some of the hard to fill jobs fall below the line. I'm afraid that this is a problem caused by HMG and doesn't address the actual issue.

The reality is that 'migration' is dogwhistle for anyone, shall we say, from one of the three great Abrahamic religions.

An interesting comparison during the election is that Boris Johnson ran around before and during the election saying Australians should be given unrestricted work rights in the UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2819783/London-mayor-wants-make-easier-Aussies-live-work-Britain-proposing-bilateral-mobility-zone-agreement-like-one-Australia-NZ.html

The public uproar?

Nada.

[Jay Sata]

Young people from certain countries already have the opportunity to work in the UK under Tier 5

Australia has a similar scheme for British citizens who want a 1 year working holiday.

See https://www.gov.uk/tier-5-youth-mobility/overview

apply for a Tier 5 (Youth Mobility Scheme) visa if you:

want to live and work in the UK for up to 2 years

are aged 18 to 30

have £1,890 in savings

have certain types of British Nationality or are from certain countries

meet the other eligibility requirements

You need to be sponsored if youre from Hong Kong, the Republic of Korea or Taiwan.

Fees

It costs £225 to apply.

Youll also have to pay the healthcare surcharge as part of your application. Check how much youll have to pay before you apply.

How long you can stay

Youll be given a visa to live and work in the UK for up to 24 months.

You can enter the UK at any time while your visa is valid, and leave and come back at any time during your stay.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Jay Sata

[samran]

Young people from certain countries already have the opportunity to work in the UK under Tier 5

Australia has a similar scheme for British citizens who want a 1 year working holiday.

See https://www.gov.uk/tier-5-youth-mobility/overview

apply for a Tier 5 (Youth Mobility Scheme) visa if you:

want to live and work in the UK for up to 2 years

are aged 18 to 30

have £1,890 in savings

have certain types of British Nationality or are from certain countries

meet the other eligibility requirements

You need to be sponsored if youre from Hong Kong, the Republic of Korea or Taiwan.

Fees

It costs £225 to apply.

Youll also have to pay the healthcare surcharge as part of your application. Check how much youll have to pay before you apply.

How long you can stay

Youll be given a visa to live and work in the UK for up to 24 months.

You can enter the UK at any time while your visa is valid, and leave and come back at any time during your stay.

Boris wasn't talking about the rebadged working holiday visa which you've referenced. He was talking about a similar freedom of movement arrangement to the EU but at a bilateral level.

[Jay Sata]

I can't see Australia ever throwing open its borders like we have to all and sundry from the EU.

They only want good qualified people via their skilled migrant visa system.

They do of course have a similar scheme to the UK Tier 2 which is what we are discussing.

The Temporary Work skilled visa 457 permits entry to work for an approved business for up to four years.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Jay Sata

[samran]

I can't see Australia ever throwing open its borders like we have to all and sundry from the EU.

They only want good qualified people via their skilled migrant visa system.

They do of course have a similar scheme to the UK Tier 2 which is what we are discussing.

The Temporary Work skilled visa 457 permits entry to work for an approved business for up to four years.

It isn't unprecedented.

Australia has free flow of labour with NZ.

Preferential agreements exist with the US under the E-3 visa which tertiary educations Australians go and work there pretty much indefinetly, though granted, US citizens come to OZ under the 457's you mentioned. Up to 10,000 can apply each year to go to the US.

The Australian PM just last week flagged similar rights for Singaporeans to come to Australia as those enjoyed by New Zealanders.

For some reason, I don't think it is beyond pro-monacharist, London born, Tony Abbott to think Boris' idea is a good one. But we shall see I guess.....and reports are that Australian officals are lobbying for something like it at the moment.

Unlike the UK, the trick in Australian politics is to bash the refugees as a 'look over there' measure, while 200-300K come under the skilled and family reunion route per year, and no-one says 'boo' to that.

[Jay Sata]

Australia has managed to protect itself over the years from the unbridled immigration that Blair and Brown dumped on the UK.

I jumped through all the hoops a three decades ago and it took close on a year before I got the right to live and work in Australia.

The points system has worked well for them and as a result they do not have the social issues parts of the UK now face.

With regard to New Zealand there are strict controls placed on those who want to enter Australia with a criminal record.

[samran]

Australia has managed to protect itself over the years from the unbridled immigration that Blair and Brown dumped on the UK.

I jumped through all the hoops a three decades ago and it took close on a year before I got the right to live and work in Australia.

The points system has worked well for them and as a result they do not have the social issues parts of the UK now face.

With regard to New Zealand there are strict controls placed on those who want to enter Australia with a criminal record.

Unbridled?

I moved to the UK in 2004. Highly skilled migrant permit. Height of the Blair Brown years.

Method? Points system.

Having gone through the system myself the only other way was a work permit, ancestry or an eu passport. It wasn't easy.

None of this sticking $25k in the bank and turning up.

Edited July 3, 2015 by samran

[theoldgit]

Let's try and keep discussions to the actual subject matter please.

Thank you,

[micmichd]

https://www.gov.uk/tier-2-general/eligibility

According to this, a salary of 20,800 £ pa should do (less for an unregistered nurse)

Why are limits set higher for immigrants without an official sponsorship?

Edited July 4, 2015 by micmichd

[1975]

19,000 Brits with family's stuck abroad, due to the £18,600 requirement.

Edited July 5, 2015 by 1975

[Jay Sata]

19,000 Brits with family's stuck abroad, due to the £18,600 requirement.

Where did you get that figure from?

[1975]

The Scottish leader (can't remember her name) mentioned the figure during the live TV debates in May this year. As I was awaiting at the time my visa decision, this figure jumped out at me, I couldn't believe it.

[Jay Sata]

Do you mean the Jimmy Krankie lookalike?

She spouts rubbish but I cannot find that quote.

[durhamboy]

Actually I think it was Natalie Bennett (Green Party) who mentioned the scandal of Brits being unable to bring their spouses to settle in the UK because of the financial requirements. As I recall she was the only participant in the debates to mention this (she did it twice in 2 live TV debates) although I don't recall her giving a figure of 19000 Brits. As far as I'm aware none of the participants mentioned it and no one picked up on Natalie's comments.

It was because she was the only one to talk about this I actually voted for her party.

[7by7]

19,000 Brits with family's stuck abroad, due to the £18,600 requirement.

Where did you get that figure from?

Any figure must, of course, be an estimate.

But: Revealed: The financial cost of Theresa May's immigration policy

Home Office estimates suggested the policy would reduce family visas by 17,800 a year.

Recent figures suggest that guess was, if anything, an underestimate. There has been a 58% drop in overall applications, including an 83.6% drop in the number of visas issued to male partners of a British spouse.

The above article is from July 2013; whether the figure has increased or decreased since is open to debate.

However, this topic is about Tier 2 visas, not family settlement.

[7by7]

https://www.gov.uk/tier-2-general/eligibility

According to this, a salary of 20,800 £ pa should do (less for an unregistered nurse)

That is the minimum income required to get a Tier 2 visa in the first place (unless the occupation is one of those listed where a lower salary is acceptable).

If the holder wants to extend it beyond 6 years then they need an income over £35,000 p.a. unless exempt, which nurses currently are not.

Why are limits set higher for immigrants without an official sponsorship?

The simple answer is; ask the government. But which category are you talking about? All Tier 2 applicants need a sponsor.

[micmichd]

19,000 Brits with family's stuck abroad, due to the £18,600 requirement.

Where did you get that figure from?

Any figure must, of course, be an estimate.

But: Revealed: The financial cost of Theresa May's immigration policy

Home Office estimates suggested the policy would reduce family visas by 17,800 a year.

Recent figures suggest that guess was, if anything, an underestimate. There has been a 58% drop in overall applications, including an 83.6% drop in the number of visas issued to male partners of a British spouse.

The above article is from July 2013; whether the figure has increased or decreased since is open to debate.

However, this topic is about Tier 2 visas, not family settlement.

So, family members of Brits from Tier 2 countries are welcome to settle free?

Regardless of their religion or colour of skin?

[Jay Sata]

19,000 Brits with family's stuck abroad, due to the £18,600 requirement.

Where did you get that figure from?

Any figure must, of course, be an estimate.

But: Revealed: The financial cost of Theresa May's immigration policy

Home Office estimates suggested the policy would reduce family visas by 17,800 a year.

Recent figures suggest that guess was, if anything, an underestimate. There has been a 58% drop in overall applications, including an 83.6% drop in the number of visas issued to male partners of a British spouse.

The above article is from July 2013; whether the figure has increased or decreased since is open to debate.

However, this topic is about Tier 2 visas, not family settlement.

So, family members of Brits from Tier 2 countries are welcome to settle free?

Regardless of their religion or colour of skin?

Tier 2 is a temporary visa allowing a key worker to enter the UK on a time limited visa. EG a doctor.

Settlement is not allowed on this visa.

[Jay Sata]

Actually I think it was Natalie Bennett (Green Party) who mentioned the scandal of Brits being unable to bring their spouses to settle in the UK because of the financial requirements. As I recall she was the only participant in the debates to mention this (she did it twice in 2 live TV debates) although I don't recall her giving a figure of 19000 Brits. As far as I'm aware none of the participants mentioned it and no one picked up on Natalie's comments.

It was because she was the only one to talk about this I actually voted for her party.

She is an Aussie with a weird agenda. Perhaps you should ask her why it is so hard for Brits to enter the land of her birth.

I would not trust her figures and the electorate agreed. Apart from the wealthy millionaire left wing voters in Brighton no one has elected a Green MP.

[Jay Sata]

https://www.gov.uk/tier-2-general/eligibility

According to this, a salary of 20,800 £ pa should do (less for an unregistered nurse)

That is the minimum income required to get a Tier 2 visa in the first place (unless the occupation is one of those listed where a lower salary is acceptable).

If the holder wants to extend it beyond 6 years then they need an income over £35,000 p.a. unless exempt, which nurses currently are not.

Why are limits set higher for immigrants without an official sponsorship?

The simple answer is; ask the government. But which category are you talking about? All Tier 2 applicants need a sponsor.

The answer to that question is simple.

If we want nurses we should train them not import them. The higher limit is to keep key people like doctors.

The tax credit system ,engineered by Blair and Brown,has cost the country a fortune while keeping wages low.

Big companies such as McDonalds or Amazon exploit low paid workers and tax manipulation.

Tier 2 is not a back door for cheap labour.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Jay Sata