US should explain its harsh rights report on Thailand, govt says

[jonesthebaker]

looks like auld doggybreath has been told to stand down as he cant refute the facts. truth is truth doogybreath

[jonesthebaker]

Fact: America imprisons more of it's citizens than any other country on the planet. i.e. 2.2 million people in America are in prison compared to 1.5 million in China. (you may wish to consider that China has more than 4 times the population).

America also holds the world record for death by police.

Just a couple of little factoids for those sitll living with the idea that America is a force for good

What you say is true.

However, since 2008, coinciding with the election of a certain President, and with greater tolerance for marijuana possession, and with a growing awareness of the very high incarceration rates, the rate has been dropping. The first substantial decline since the early 1970's.

There is a long way to go for the US to change its basic approach to drug abuse prevention, which is the core issue attached to high incarceration rates. But the pendulum has started to swing toward reason.

that is good. but the damage done to so many people cant be undone.

[BuaBS]

What if Sweden wrote the report? Would that make everybody happy?

Real Swedes or the new imported ones ?

[Zatoichi]

I feel much safer here than I do in the States. The most a cop wants from me here is kanom money. In the US they wanna shoot me for being the wrong color. In fact this is the finest I've seen Thailand in the 15 years I've been here. 1000 times better than 2010 when thouse red shirt terrorists were burning stuff down and killing people.

[connda]

Fact: America imprisons more of it's citizens than any other country on the planet. i.e. 2.2 million people in America are in prison compared to 1.5 million in China. (you may wish to consider that China has more than 4 times the population).

America also holds the world record for death by police.

Just a couple of little factoids for those sitll living with the idea that America is a force for good

What you say is true.

However, since 2008, coinciding with the election of a certain President, and with greater tolerance for marijuana possession, and with a growing awareness of the very high incarceration rates, the rate has been dropping. The first substantial decline since the early 1970's.

There is a long way to go for the US to change its basic approach to drug abuse prevention, which is the core issue attached to high incarceration rates. But the pendulum has started to swing toward reason.

I wonder how my home State is doing in the field of "Pot Tourism". From my understanding, being a 'car cleaner' for one of the rental car agencies is a boon. All the Pot Tourists leave their unused bags in their rentals.

"Hey sugarplum, how'd you do at work today?"

"Well, I found $5 and change while cleaning the cars and about a half a pound of pot. Not bad sweetcheeks. Fire up the bong?"

What Mr. Car Cleaner finds daily is enough to get you a 'lethal injection' here in the LOS, or a firing squad in Indonesia. So I wonder? Who scored higher in the human rights department?

[ianf]

I thought the USA would have enough on it's hands in the Middle east where it is encouraging conflict much to the delight of the US Industrial-Military complex. It's meddling in Thailand's affairs and it's support of the dictator in waiting (ie a criminal on the run) is just about par for the course for a nation that has bloodied its' hands in so many areas of the world.

[keskeseksa]

Best government on the planet? Elected by people or corporate contributions? LOL

But this is coming from a country which also tramples on the rights of its own citizens, invades other countries on the flimsiest of excuses, detains citizens of other countries without trial and those persons only defenders are appointed by the the US military. Some of those people have been arrested in countries other than the USA and many of them have been awaiting trial for years.

It regularly sends drones to kill people in other countries and worries little if anything about "collateral damage" to that countries citizens.

Civilians in the USA are regularly killed by the police forces within the USA.

It supports freedom of speech but when it comes to Wikileaks it wants to prosecute to the nth degree those people that expose the truth.

It supports dictatorial regimes in some parts of the world.

When you live in a glass house it is not always a good idea to throw stones.

Like it or not, The American people have the government they elected.

If it is a bad government, it is the responsibility of the American people.

They chose it..

It is also their choice to change the government if they feel the need to do so.

As much as I disagree with it, it is still the best government on the planet.

Get over it.

[connda]

I feel much safer here than I do in the States. The most a cop wants from me here is kanom money. In the US they wanna shoot me for being the wrong color. In fact this is the finest I've seen Thailand in the 15 years I've been here. 1000 times better than 2010 when thouse red shirt terrorists were burning stuff down and killing people.

I've seen, on at least three occasions, where a Thai cop talks a machete wielding guy with a women hostage <machete at throat> into dropping the machete. When the guy submits, there is not Cop Dog-pile where the guy is beat, punched, tased, choked just to put handcuff on. Nope. Cop talks the guy into giving up the weapon, walks the guy to the cop car, and puts him in Three times I've seen this on Thai news. Talk about restraint.

In the US.

Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam Blam

Not unusual for 50 or more rounds being discharged with carnage all around. Very professional.

Hostage taker dead; hostage dead; bystanders all around dead or wounded. Cop are vindicated. Rinse and repeat.

[spectrumisgreen]

Not that Thailand has ever been in an ideal situation, or often even very close to it, politically, a well known and understood fact.. but where would we be if the Army hadn't stepped in this time round? And as The U.S WELL knows when Armies step in they do it pretty harshly, because.. er.. well, they're ARMIES, right? (Or in America's case, 'World Police', no?.. haha what a joke!!).. Those people (forever) on the streets of Bangkok, stirred to boiling point (by both sides) of the power and money-hungry leadership(s) of a very evident and nasty - indeed, still feudal - political divide would be still hatefully killing each other (as otherwise 'everyday' people the world over sadly too often do when manipulated into a mindless frenzy by others ulterior motives!).. basically, for their own leaders' 'cause(s)'! The army came in as it had to. OTT and still OTT at times? For sure. But that it had to intervene is the real crux.. and the U.S knows this full well, yet once again spouts its own self-righteous Big Brother to the world B.U.L.L-S.H.I.T!!! Typically, I see on here there's plenty too quick to back their own idiot over-bearing government, and again (as again and again!) spout equally anti-Thai rhetoric, yet who will NEVER go back 'home'. Mmmm.. I wonder why.. could it be because you ALL KNOW how full of crap you all are? An idea.. American government (and all its 'agencies'!), human rights violators extraordinaire.. shut up, f*** off, and get back to your never ending and egotistical pursuit to be number one bully in the playground, this episode v 'The New Red Threat'!!!

[ggt]

It said the military government had sharply curbed freedom of speech and press freedom and the ability for people to assemble, while also causing more than 900 people to be temporarily detained without charge.

I feel certain the Military Coop Government understands fully why they are not viewed more favorably...

My fear for the Thai people...is that the future elected government...will be filled with the PMs yes men and will just continue the militaries dictatorial policies...

[phoenixdoglover]

I sometimes wonder about how people perceive risks. According to health statistics, here is a comparison of world rankings for death rates in Thailand versus the US. I stuck with causes of death other than disease.

A lower number is BAD.

Cause of death - world ranking of Thailand vs US

Traffic Accidents - 4 vs 107

Violence - 75 vs 92

Falls - 4 vs 80

Drownings - 19 vs 160

Alcohol - 46 vs 49

Suicide - 28 vs 63

Life expectancy (rounded numbers): Thailand 74 years, US 79 years

Of course, "your mileage may vary".

[connda]

Didn't I just read that a bunch of Thai students have been arrested and face up to 7 years jail for daring to meet and protest??

And once they get bail, immediately flee for US embassy and request asylum. US Citizenship for Thai People 101.

Oh, and once you get to the US and obtain your visa, no showing up yearly for interviews, no 90 report, no restrictions on working. You're just part of the melting pot. So maybe they do have the moral high-ground, 'eh?

[Shaunduhpostman]

OK, so the U.S. govt. wants to show us that it has eyes in its head. Whatever. Personally, I find it pretty stale and tiresome and most around the world probably think the hypocrisy element stinks. The state department seems to feel the need to periodically spit out these kinds of statements or scoldings or posturings or what have you just to confirm that the machinery is functional or something, or what is it? It's not like anyone needs them to confirm what is going on Thailand at this stage, we can all get probably better reports from the various NGOs etc. So what is the point?

I don't think reports and statements are going to help win the Prayuth regime over to their side or make him change his style and I'm sure Kerry and company know that. The US doesn't seem interested in Thailand enough that they are actually going to do anything about the laundry list of things they don't like beyond complaining every 6 months or so. So, I would guess it is probably more for domestic consumption to criticize Thailand so as to make the US govt appear they are on the right side in terms of human rights etc. So seems to me what this really about is more about a deception being played on a certain sector of Americans who seem to almost willfully want to remain unaware of America's role in the world since at least the end of WW2, a pr job and enough people will swallow it and it hardly costs the government anything. Just wheel John Kerry out again.

I think it might be good entertainment if nothing else if Prayuth and company could save face by releasing their own report on the U.S. human rights situation based on books and news reports and hopefully their own take on it all. They should really go to town and hold a big conference in Phuket or Pattaya where they invite all kinds of vips from all around southeast asia, China etc and present the results of their findings. It would be much more interesting to hear their perspective instead of having to listen John Kerry's dust and phlegm infused coughings from his pulpit in Virginia again.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Another stupid American report.

[Mot Dang]

Here's a few suitable metaphors for you Mr. P that may be useful.

Birds of a feather flock together.

What you sow ye shall reap !

Lost face have we ?

[Kurt Kubik]

Well.. i gues US is on top of the list...

[joebrown]

What do they need to explain? They have voiced these criticisms for the last year, did Thailand somehow think it was all going to change, magically go away?

The great thing is Thailand doesn't have to do a thing, they can just go on there merry way, who cares about the usa. That said, they can expect a reduction in exports to the US which is only fair. Best thing for Thailand to do is just sell there excess Tuna, farmed shrimp and clothing to China.

It's "their", for God's sake.

I read LomSak's post and spotted the spelling mistake. I didn't post just to point out his error , but I see someone couldn't resist the temptation to get on his 'high-horse' to do so. This type of 'policing' is unnecessary if the mistake doesn't change the overall meaning of the sentence. 'Live and let live', I say.

Edited June 27, 2015 by joebrown

[Broeno]

You could say: thailand, look into the mirror, but with a Thai mind they only see "happyness".

[connda]

But this is coming from a country which also tramples on the rights of its own citizens, invades other countries on the flimsiest of excuses, detains citizens of other countries without trial and those persons only defenders are appointed by the the US military. Some of those people have been arrested in countries other than the USA and many of them have been awaiting trial for years.

It regularly sends drones to kill people in other countries and worries little if anything about "collateral damage" to that countries citizens.

Civilians in the USA are regularly killed by the police forces within the USA.

It supports freedom of speech but when it comes to Wikileaks it wants to prosecute to the nth degree those people that expose the truth.

It supports dictatorial regimes in some parts of the world.

When you live in a glass house it is not always a good idea to throw stones.

Like it or not, The American people have the government they elected.

If it is a bad government, it is the responsibility of the American people.

They chose it..

It is also their choice to change the government if they feel the need to do so.

As much as I disagree with it, it is still the best government on the planet.

Get over it.

I have a classroom of student and I'm going to explain how the president is elected.

First, I divide the class into groups. 1% of the students have 95% of the money. All the student in the class are allow to use the money they have and contribute to the candidate of their choice in order to buy publicity and votes. However, the 1% students are allowed to contribute as much as they want, but the 99% of the students are limited to only a small amount of their money. All students are allow to run for president, but before I started I separated 2% of the student (1% with most of the money and 1% without much money, but who are good friend of the 1%) and put them in their own group. The other 98% of students were put in their own group and the two groups can't associate except during speeches. The 2% having the most money get almost all the time they want for speeches, and the 98% get virtually none.

Come election day, we have a primary election. Surprisingly two candidates emerge from the 2% group, and now all the students are allow to vote for one of these two candidates. But, I have the final say, because I've labelled myself the Electoral College. Most of the students want candidate A, but I want candidate B. And Candidate B is the winner.

The 2% take me out to dinner and buy me a bottle of Johnney Walker Black.

Welcome to democracy.

Edited June 27, 2015 by connda

[phoenixdoglover]

According to the US State Department:

Now in their 39th year, these annual Congressionally-mandated reports....

So it would appear that if Thailand does not want to have a report with negative findings, they have a few choices:

1) Stop violating the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which they have pledged to follow;

2) Lobby the US Congress to pass a new law, eliminating the annual country reports

3) Merge with another country, thereby eliminating the Kingdom of Thailand as a target.

4) Act all surprised and offended, as if this sort of criticism is somehow new.

I'm predicting #4.

Edited June 27, 2015 by phoenixdoglover

[Miami Bob]

But this is coming from a country which also tramples on the rights of its own citizens, invades other countries on the flimsiest of excuses, detains citizens of other countries without trial and those persons only defenders are appointed by the the US military. Some of those people have been arrested in countries other than the USA and many of them have been awaiting trial for years.

It regularly sends drones to kill people in other countries and worries little if anything about "collateral damage" to that countries citizens.

Civilians in the USA are regularly killed by the police forces within the USA.

It supports freedom of speech but when it comes to Wikileaks it wants to prosecute to the nth degree those people that expose the truth.

It supports dictatorial regimes in some parts of the world.

When you live in a glass house it is not always a good idea to throw stones.

All true, but it's not just foreigners that they can detain without trial. That's part of what the NDAA was about that Obama signed just before midnight on new years 2012 while congress was getting drunk after saying he wouldn't sign it because the public was against it. It gives the feds the right to detain any US citizen indefinitely without trial or representation. Just disappear them. That's called a police state and countries like Britain aren't far behind. How is the US federal government in a moral position to be judging other countries. Amazing!

[connda]

What if Sweden wrote the report? Would that make everybody happy?

What? The country that want's their children wrapped in bubble wrap and body armor before they are allowed to go out and play?

The country where children have more rights than adults?

The country that is conceding it's sovereignty to Muslim immigrants?

You're out of your mind. No!

[Thaidream]

As an American, I find the report by the US government to lack any real validity and simplistic in its analysis. The Thai government should ignore the report and continue to do what it believes is in the best interests of the Thai people. No need to ask for an explanation- the American report is not relevant. The United States needs to get its own house in order It is spending billions listening to the World's phone calls; uses its intelligence service to put innocent people in detention without any right to counsel or courts; attempts to silence those who would protest against this abomination and then try to sell it as 'protection of American citizens.' In addition, America maintains the most costly military apparatus the World has ever seen. All the while, Americans have the highest health care costs in the World, with limited access; declining wages; increased poverty and a general decline in their overall happiness. Politicians continue to lie to the public and line their pockets with ridiculous benefits and salaries. Is there any wonder why no one in the World is listening to the so called 'greatest country in the World'. I am not anti-American, but it is high time to tell the truth. I remember when the United States was a respected and vital part of the World community because it always took the high road and treated both its citizens and the World with respect. Is there no American who can step forward and lead?

[kovaltech]

Nothing to explain, really.

if we compare the US and Thailand, i surely prefer Thailand at this moment... seen all story's on police abusing force, i think its more safe in Thailand....

and believe me, i am a fan of law and order...

[VINCENT2012]

a report who does reflect the reality of thailand...feel free to travel but keep your mouth shut.

[Muirton]

But this is coming from a country which also tramples on the rights of its own citizens, invades other countries on the flimsiest of excuses, detains citizens of other countries without trial and those persons only defenders are appointed by the the US military. Some of those people have been arrested in countries other than the USA and many of them have been awaiting trial for years.

It regularly sends drones to kill people in other countries and worries little if anything about "collateral damage" to that countries citizens.

Civilians in the USA are regularly killed by the police forces within the USA.

It supports freedom of speech but when it comes to Wikileaks it wants to prosecute to the nth degree those people that expose the truth.

It supports dictatorial regimes in some parts of the world.

When you live in a glass house it is not always a good idea to throw stones.

"a country which also tramples on the rights of its own citizens". Pray specify lest this is read as yet another rant from you.

[arjunadawn]

US should explain its harsh rights report on Thailand, govt says

Which part on this list does the government not understand?

"The military overthrew a democratically elected government, repealed the constitution, and severely limited civil liberties," Kerry said. "Subsequent efforts by the military government to rewrite the country's constitution and recast its political intuitions raised concerns about lack of inclusivity in the process."

The report also stated that Thais no longer had the ability to change the government in a free and fair election, while noting that the junta had stifled academic freedom, ordered scholars not to speak to the press and cancelled academic seminars.

The junta had also restricted press content deemed critical, leading to widespread self-censorship.

The US also mentioned what it described as abuses by government security forces and local defence volunteers in the deep South.

Other rights problems included arbitrary arrests and detentions, overcrowded and unsanitary prisons and detention facilities, and insufficient protection for vulnerable populations, including refugees.

1. The US democratically elected government is a farce; it is manipulated both at the polls and the electors. Civil liberties in America are increasingly a farce both with the citizens and police/federal and journalists and federal government. Civil liberties in the US remain, but it is an empty container, aping its former glory.

2. Americans no longer have the ability to change government- 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other, always the lesser of two evils while America moves inexorably toward oligarchy and corporatocracy.

3. The Obama administration is oppressive to a free press and this results in America's freedom of speech rating to be increasingly lowered. Contrary to what one might imagine freedom of the press in the US is way down the list compared to many other countries.

4. The abuses of the US federal and local governments into outright assaults on the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 10th, and 14th Amendments. The US government is the most intrusive stasi like State in the history of planet earth. Under the stalking horse of "for the children" "stop the bad guys" and other Emmanuel Goldstein cliches, the US has become as oppressive as East Germany was. The only difference is the mechanics of going through the motions of same ole same ole. In other words, business as usual is only a shadow of its former self.

5. The US has passed indefinite detention laws suspending habeus corpus.

There is not really much more to say. If I were Thailand I would be equally aghast at the presumption of this stalking evil to pass judgement. So, why does it matter. Because while the US has lost even a fig leaf of credibility around the world it still wields a big stick and has repeatedly demonstrated it will attack allies and befriend enemies.

But this is coming from a country which also tramples on the rights of its own citizens, invades other countries on the flimsiest of excuses, detains citizens of other countries without trial and those persons only defenders are appointed by the the US military. Some of those people have been arrested in countries other than the USA and many of them have been awaiting trial for years.

It regularly sends drones to kill people in other countries and worries little if anything about "collateral damage" to that countries citizens.

Civilians in the USA are regularly killed by the police forces within the USA.

It supports freedom of speech but when it comes to Wikileaks it wants to prosecute to the nth degree those people that expose the truth.

It supports dictatorial regimes in some parts of the world.

When you live in a glass house it is not always a good idea to throw stones.

Ditto!

[bobmac10]

Now peace has returned to the Kingdom and people can travel to any place in the country without fear, he said.

Peace that was shattered by the Suthep mob, that made it impossible for an elected government to carry out its mandate.

Peace that has been always been there, just waiting for the elites' forces to back off and let the elected government govern.

[tbthailand]

US should explain its harsh rights report on Thailand, govt says

Which part on this list does the government not understand?

"The military overthrew a democratically elected government, repealed the constitution, and severely limited civil liberties," Kerry said. "Subsequent efforts by the military government to rewrite the country's constitution and recast its political intuitions raised concerns about lack of inclusivity in the process."

The report also stated that Thais no longer had the ability to change the government in a free and fair election, while noting that the junta had stifled academic freedom, ordered scholars not to speak to the press and cancelled academic seminars.

The junta had also restricted press content deemed critical, leading to widespread self-censorship.

The US also mentioned what it described as abuses by government security forces and local defence volunteers in the deep South.

Other rights problems included arbitrary arrests and detentions, overcrowded and unsanitary prisons and detention facilities, and insufficient protection for vulnerable populations, including refugees.

yeah, ... none of it...

[tbthailand]

However the US should say what the basis is and the sources of the facts that led to the assumption

so that the junta can send the "sources" to attitude adjustment.