Camronwit's gun found to be unregistered

[Lite Beer]

NORTH AMERICAN ARMS .22-CALIBRE GUN
Camronwit's gun found to be unregistered
THE SUNDAY NATION

BANGKOK: -- JAPANESE forensic authorities have learned that the gun the former Metropolitan Police commissioner Camronwit Toopkrajank had allegedly taken from Thailand was not legally registered, a source said yesterday.

Authorities took the North American Arms .22-calibre gun to determine its power and check if it was legally registered after Camronwit was arrested at Tokyo's Narita International Airport on Monday for carrying a weapon.

A highly placed source in Japan said the gun had only Arabic numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun, identifying the country in which the gun was sold. He did not say which country.

The source said if the gun was legally registered and taxes were paid, it should have had Thai numbers and letters on the handle as the North American Arms .22 is a small pistol.

The source said it would depend on the Japanese prosecutors' judgement as to whether Camronwit would face heavier punishment for illegally carrying arms. He said carrying a gun is a serious crime, and whether or not the pistol was legal or not may be irrelevant.

Camronwit remains in police custody in Tokyo, pending prosecution.

National police chief General Somyot Poompanmuang instructed Police Region One commissioner Pol Lt-General Amnuay Nimano to find out how Camronwit was able to depart Thailand with the gun, and Amnuay then instructed Samut Prakan provincial chief Pol Maj-General Thana Chuwong to probe the incident.

Thana reported that Camronwit had arrived at Suvarnabhumi Airport with three bags that were checked in, while his two carry-on bags - one on wheels and another with a strap - passed through X-ray without any banned objects being detected. He was flying business class with Thai Airways.

Camronwit's aide had earlier said that the former top cop usually packed his medication in checked-in luggage, but the day he was arrested in Tokyo, his medication bag was in his hand luggage. The pistol was found in his medication bag.

The former police officer left Thailand for Japan on a Thursday by Thai Airways flight TG 640 at 9pm and was arrested while he was about to leave Japan for Thailand on Monday at 5pm.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Camronwits-gun-found-to-be-unregistered-30263264.html

-- The Nation 2015-06-28

[Somtamnication]

Get used to eating fish head soup and stale sushi with substandard Thai rice!

[Jay Sata]

The plot deepens.

An unregistered gun means he could have used it and no one could ever trace it back to him.

Why was it loaded?

Why all the rubbish about licences and permits in Thailand?

He has nearly been locked up for a week now.

Som nam na

[Soutpeel]

Woops....so now an illegal firearm as well...our boy is really getting himself in the poo

the whole thing may have been "explained away" if it was registered to him and it was an "honest mistake guv"...but now its an unregistered firearm game changes me thinks and its an ex top man from the BiB, the Japanese aint going to be amused

Think he needs to brush up on his Sushi making skills...

Edited June 27, 2015 by Soutpeel

[NongKhaiKid]

This is a godsend for AOT and the Transport Minister, " see, the gun isn't linked to Thailand so he couldn't have been carrying it when he passed through Swampy so our scanners and the experts who man them are fully vindicated. "

[Soutpeel]

This is a godsend for AOT and the Transport Minister, " see, the gun isn't linked to Thailand so he couldn't have been carrying it when he passed through Swampy so our scanners and the experts who man them are fully vindicated. "

The same thing occurred to me....not registered in Thailand, ergo it couldn't have come through swampy according to AOT

[Jay Sata]

As an aside to this issue there are similarities between Japan and Thailand when it comes to'face'.

In Japan, the stigma of being arrested is great.

Being interrogated by the police can give you a bad image. So, they take their time to be sure they arrest the right person.

Japanese police only make an arrest when they're certain its the right person.

And when the police arrested someone in Japan, they're allowed to keep the person in custody for interrogation for up to 72 hours before that person is allowed a phone call or access to a lawyer.

This is the bad bit for our friend.

99% of the people arrested get convicted.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Jay Sata

[Nigeone]

This is a godsend for AOT and the Transport Minister, " see, the gun isn't linked to Thailand so he couldn't have been carrying it when he passed through Swampy so our scanners and the experts who man them are fully vindicated. "

The same thing occurred to me....not registered in Thailand, ergo it couldn't have come through swampy according to AOT

That's a argument ,or change of story they might try, but then surely he has a bigger problem if he goes down that route..okay so now your saying it didn't come from Thailand so where and who did you get it from in Japan and how did you 'forget' it was in your luggage..he's f***** ..serve him and BiB right..more of the same please..also..Arabic numbers and English indicating where the gun was sold...!! Dubai anyone? Edited June 28, 2015 by Nigeone

[Jay Sata]

This is a godsend for AOT and the Transport Minister, " see, the gun isn't linked to Thailand so he couldn't have been carrying it when he passed through Swampy so our scanners and the experts who man them are fully vindicated. "

The same thing occurred to me....not registered in Thailand, ergo it couldn't have come through swampy according to AOT

That's a argument ,or change of story they might try, but then surely he has a bigger problem if he goes down that route..okay so now your saying it didn't come from Thailand so where and who did you get it from in Japan and how did you 'forget' it was in your luggage..he's f***** ..serve him and BiB right..more of the same please..also..Arabic numbers and English indicating where the gun was sold...!! Dubai anyone?

Surely you are not suggesting Mr T?

Famous for his 'honest mistake" defence.

[saakura]

As an aside to this issue there are similarities between Japan and Thailand when it comes to'face'.

In Japan, the stigma of being arrested is great.

Being interrogated by the police can give you a bad image. So, they take their time to be sure they arrest the right .

So in which country do people celebrate when arrested by police and interrogated for doing illegal things like carrying a loaded gun onto an airline? A person, or his family and close friends are likely to be traumatised irrespective of the nationality.

[jaidam]

the only reason he was carrying a loaded untraceable gun was because he wanted to use it without being traced back. they say the vast majority of guns for hire in Thailand are ex cops.

[sentogawa]

You're probably a little more familiar with those arabic numbers than you realize.

[rametindallas]

Now, the only way Kamronwit could be deeper in the poo is if he had gone on a shooting rampage in Japan. One question I would dearly like to ask him. "Why did you keep it loaded when you easily can buy .22 magnum cartridges in Thailand?" There is stupid, breathtakingly stupid, glaringly stupid, but this is approaching 'blindingly stupid'. Wow!

.

[Nigeone]

You're probably a little more familiar with those arabic numbers than you realize.

.??? Explain? Sorry

[BuckBee]

I passed through swampy with 2 knives in my carry-on with no bother before, didn't intend to do it but swapping stuff around for bag weights caused the error. Swampy security is typically thai lapse mess. Gun could still be registered in thailand as for sure they quite lapse on correct details & gun markings for the right people.

Very odd case all round, you would have to be mad try bring a gun through especially loaded & assembled in carry on ! he need do some time for this as it inexcusable for anyone & even more so for a police officer. Story so far is also typical 5 year old dribble that you get from thai officials ! interesting see how unfolds :-)

[Pimay1]

Now, the only way Kamronwit could be deeper in the poo is if he had gone on a shooting rampage in Japan. One question I would dearly like to ask him. "Why did you keep it loaded when you easily can buy .22 magnum cartridges in Thailand?" There is stupid, breathtakingly stupid, glaringly stupid, but this is approaching 'blindingly stupid'. Wow!

.

Most people do things for a reason. This is certainly not Camronwit's first trip abroad. Had he taken the gun with him on previous trips it would have been discovered. The $64,000 question is why he took it to Japan. I hope there is a hungry investigative reporter in Japan who will dig into this and find the real story as there aren't any in the Thai news service worth their salt.

[lovelomsak]

What makes me wonder in this situation is how much does credibility play into it. It appears Camronwit is losing credibility being caught up in one lie after the other. Even assisted lies like about friend looking for registration of gun.How many lies can they make and not be considered a risk?

[worgeordie]

The difference between Japan-Thailand, if a Japanese man

had of done this in Thailand ,he would have quickly posted

bail and done a runner,Japan keep him locked up so he

cannot run. Via la difference.

regards Worgeordie

[ezzra]

This moron of a ex police general must be thinking that his status will carry weight where ever he goes,

little he knew that the Japanese to give a crap for foreign ex this or that, and for them, if you screwed

up, you will pay for it just like the last of the criminals.... so Mr general, use this time to learn some

Japanese won't you......

[trogers]

Now, the only way Kamronwit could be deeper in the poo is if he had gone on a shooting rampage in Japan. One question I would dearly like to ask him. "Why did you keep it loaded when you easily can buy .22 magnum cartridges in Thailand?" There is stupid, breathtakingly stupid, glaringly stupid, but this is approaching 'blindingly stupid'. Wow!

.

Most people do things for a reason. This is certainly not Camronwit's first trip abroad. Had he taken the gun with him on previous trips it would have been discovered. The $64,000 question is why he took it to Japan. I hope there is a hungry investigative reporter in Japan who will dig into this and find the real story as there aren't any in the Thai news service worth their salt.

He did say it was a gift from a friend in Japan...

What kind of people does he befriend who own illegal weapons? Birds of a feather?

[Robby nz]

This is a godsend for AOT and the Transport Minister, " see, the gun isn't linked to Thailand so he couldn't have been carrying it when he passed through Swampy so our scanners and the experts who man them are fully vindicated. "

The same thing occurred to me....not registered in Thailand, ergo it couldn't have come through swampy according to AOT

That's a argument ,or change of story they might try, but then surely he has a bigger problem if he goes down that route..okay so now your saying it didn't come from Thailand so where and who did you get it from in Japan and how did you 'forget' it was in your luggage..he's f***** ..serve him and BiB right..more of the same please..also..Arabic numbers and English indicating where the gun was sold...!! Dubai anyone?

You forgot the bit about : " A highly placed source in Japan said the gun had only Arabic numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun"

"Crafted by the factory that produced the gun". So the Arabic is only to do with the factory is that made it.

It is apparently made by a company called North American Arms Company that has their headquarters in Provo Utah, whether their factory is there or not who knows.

Whatever. The fact that the gun is not registered in Thailand does not mean it was not taken to Japan from Thailand as there will be plenty of unregistered firearms in this country.

It also may have no bearing on the charge of carrying a loaded gun onto a plane but it should leave him open to another charge of being in possession of an unregistered firearm.

There seems to be some confusion as to just which bag the gun was in when he tried to board the plane in Japan but considering that at the very least any reports from Japan have to be translated into English and possibly from Japanese to Thai then to English there is plenty of room for words to be confused.

[halloween]

You forgot the bit about : " A highly placed source in Japan said the gun had only Arabic numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun"

"Crafted by the factory that produced the gun". So the Arabic is only to do with the factory is that made it.

It is apparently made by a company called North American Arms Company that has their headquarters in Provo Utah, whether their factory is there or not who knows.

Whatever. The fact that the gun is not registered in Thailand does not mean it was not taken to Japan from Thailand as there will be plenty of unregistered firearms in this country.

It also may have no bearing on the charge of carrying a loaded gun onto a plane but it should leave him open to another charge of being in possession of an unregistered firearm.

There seems to be some confusion as to just which bag the gun was in when he tried to board the plane in Japan but considering that at the very least any reports from Japan have to be translated into English and possibly from Japanese to Thai then to English there is plenty of room for words to be confused.

Arabic numerals or Hindu-Arabic numerals or Indo-Arabic numerals are the ten digits: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. They are the most common symbolic representation of numbers in the world today. The first positional numerical system was developed in Babylon in the 2nd millennium BC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals

As opposed to Thai numerals or Japanese numerals

Edited June 28, 2015 by halloween

[Misterwhisper]

Why is everyone focusing so much on Camronwit's claim that he already had the gun when he left Thailand? Is it really so far-fetched that he has simply lied (wouldn't be the first time that a bigwig has twisted the truth) and in fact somehow obtained the gun while in Japan?

There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that the gun was in Camronwit's luggage from the beginning.

At least that scenario would explain 1) why the gun bears no Thai registration numbers, and 2) why the airport scanners didn't detect it when he went through security at Swampy.

And he stored it in his medication bag? How ironic.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Misterwhisper

[Soutpeel]

Why is everyone focusing so much on Camronwit's claim that he already had the gun when he left Thailand? Is it really so far-fetched that he has simply lied (wouldn't be the first time that a bigwig has twisted the truth) and in fact somehow obtained the gun while in Japan?

There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that the gun was in Camronwit's luggage from the beginning.

At least that scenario would explain 1) why the gun bears no Thai registration numbers, and 2) why the airport scanners didn't detect it when he went through security at Swampy.

And he stored it in his medication bag? How ironic.

1. do firearms in Thailand bear a Thai registration number physically on the firearm ?

2. they didn't detect it cos they weren't looking properly or because he is a person of standing he wasn't checked properly

there is absolutely no proof that it wasn't in his luggage either

[rametindallas]

This is a godsend for AOT and the Transport Minister, " see, the gun isn't linked to Thailand so he couldn't have been carrying it when he passed through Swampy so our scanners and the experts who man them are fully vindicated. "

The same thing occurred to me....not registered in Thailand, ergo it couldn't have come through swampy according to AOT

That's a argument ,or change of story they might try, but then surely he has a bigger problem if he goes down that route..okay so now your saying it didn't come from Thailand so where and who did you get it from in Japan and how did you 'forget' it was in your luggage..he's f***** ..serve him and BiB right..more of the same please..also..Arabic numbers and English indicating where the gun was sold...!! Dubai anyone?

You forgot the bit about : " A highly placed source in Japan said the gun had only Arabic numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun"

"Crafted by the factory that produced the gun". So the Arabic is only to do with the factory is that made it.

It is apparently made by a company called North American Arms Company that has their headquarters in Provo Utah, whether their factory is there or not who knows.

Whatever. The fact that the gun is not registered in Thailand does not mean it was not taken to Japan from Thailand as there will be plenty of unregistered firearms in this country.

It also may have no bearing on the charge of carrying a loaded gun onto a plane but it should leave him open to another charge of being in possession of an unregistered firearm.

There seems to be some confusion as to just which bag the gun was in when he tried to board the plane in Japan but considering that at the very least any reports from Japan have to be translated into English and possibly from Japanese to Thai then to English there is plenty of room for words to be confused.

There seems to be some confusion as to just which bag the gun was in when he tried to board the plane in Japan

From the OP (second to last paragraph): Camronwit's aide had earlier said that the former top cop usually packed his medication in checked-in luggage, but the day he was arrested in Tokyo, his medication bag was in his hand luggage. The pistol was found in his medication bag.

There may have been confusion before but this statement makes it clear that Japanese authorities found it in his 'hand luggage' which cannot be confused with 'checked in luggage'. They found the gun in his 'hand luggage' which is the same as a carry-on bag which means he was attempting to bring a loaded, five-shot, revolver into the passenger cabin of a commercial aircraft.

Even if Japan wanted to be lenient, they can't now as this would make them look like they valued passenger safety as secondary to the special treatment of a foreign VIP. The Japanese authorities are dragging the proceedings out as this is very difficult/uncomfortable for them but, in the end, the world is watching and they will have to do what is correct.

"Crafted by the factory that produced the gun". So the Arabic is only to do with the factory is that made it.

Also from the OP: A highly placed source in Japan said the gun had only Arabic numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun, identifying the country in which the gun was sold.

The presence of Arabic numbers does not, in any way, refer to where the gun was manufactured but are serial numbers stamped into the gun's frame to denote the market to which it was sold. North American Arms is a specialty gun manufacturer with only one factory and that is in Provo, Utah. You Tube has video tours of the (one and only) factory.

Here is what Arabic numerals look like:

Because of the presence of Arabic numerals in the identifying serial number of this particular hand gun, this is clearly not a gun that would/could have been legally sold in Thailand hence, no paperwork or legal registration. Dubai uses Arabic numerals. Did this gun come from Dubai, maybe? Precious, indeed! Kamronwit just might have carried the 'loyalty/devotion' thing too far this time.

Another note: Since Muslims, by and large, are not permitted into Japan except on tourist visas, it is highly unlikely the gun was acquired in Japan.

.

Edited June 28, 2015 by rametindallas

[DM07]

This is a godsend for AOT and the Transport Minister, " see, the gun isn't linked to Thailand so he couldn't have been carrying it when he passed through Swampy so our scanners and the experts who man them are fully vindicated. "

The same thing occurred to me....not registered in Thailand, ergo it couldn't have come through swampy according to AOT

That's a argument ,or change of story they might try, but then surely he has a bigger problem if he goes down that route..okay so now your saying it didn't come from Thailand so where and who did you get it from in Japan and how did you 'forget' it was in your luggage..he's f***** ..serve him and BiB right..more of the same please..also..Arabic numbers and English indicating where the gun was sold...!! Dubai anyone?

Am I reading this right?

You are trying to bring Thaksin into this story?

Seriously?

Wow!

Just wow!

[jerojero]

What a moron. 'nuff said.

[halloween]

There seems to be some confusion as to just which bag the gun was in when he tried to board the plane in Japan

From the OP (second to last paragraph): Camronwit's aide had earlier said that the former top cop usually packed his medication in checked-in luggage, but the day he was arrested in Tokyo, his medication bag was in his hand luggage. The pistol was found in his medication bag.

There may have been confusion before but this statement makes it clear that Japanese authorities found it in his 'hand luggage' which cannot be confused with 'checked in luggage'. They found the gun in his 'hand luggage' which is the same as a carry-on bag which means he was attempting to bring a loaded, five-shot, revolver into the passenger cabin of a commercial aircraft.

Even if Japan wanted to be lenient, they can't now as this would make them look like they valued passenger safety as secondary to the special treatment of a foreign VIP. The Japanese authorities are dragging the proceedings out as this is very difficult/uncomfortable for them but, in the end, the world is watching and they will have to do what is correct.

"Crafted by the factory that produced the gun". So the Arabic is only to do with the factory is that made it.

Also from the OP: A highly placed source in Japan said the gun had only Arabic numbers and English letters crafted by the factory that produced the gun, identifying the country in which the gun was sold.

The presence of Arabic numbers does not, in any way, refer to where the gun was manufactured but are serial numbers stamped into the gun's frame to denote the market to which it was sold. North American Arms is a specialty gun manufacturer with only one factory and that is in Provo, Utah. You Tube has video tours of the (one and only) factory.

Here is what Arabic numerals look like:

arabic numerals.jpg

Because of the presence of Arabic numerals in the identifying serial number of this particular hand gun, this is clearly not a gun that would/could have been legally sold in Thailand hence, no paperwork or legal registration. Dubai uses Arabic numerals. Did this gun come from Dubai, maybe? Precious, indeed! Kamronwit just might have carried the 'loyalty/devotion' thing too far this time.

Another note: Since Muslims, by and large, are not permitted into Japan except on tourist visas, it is highly unlikely the gun was acquired in Japan.

.

OR the Japanese source was referring to westernised arabic numerals, the most commonly used numbering system on the planet.

I assume the "English" letters would indicate the country where it was sold.

Edited June 28, 2015 by halloween

[Tatsujin]

It'll be interesting to see the ballistics testing of this "unregistered" firearm and find out how many shootings/executions it's been involved with ...

[Just1Voice]

And what happened to the situation where his son was supposedly flying to Japan to show legal registration papers of the gun?