English language education for Thai daughter

[cneuy3]

Hello,

Our family is planning a move to the United States within the next few years and I'm interested in getting my daughter's English up to par or within a reasonable degree of other American kids her age before that time. She is eight years old and has very limited English skills right now.

I've researched and been referred to the following:

http://absbilingualschool.ac.th/th/en/

http://www.panyaden.ac.th/th/

http://www.guru-englishschool.com/

The last one listed is a language school. It seems most recommend the bi-lingual primary schools as the best way for her to learn English. The problem I'm having now is deciding whether or not these schools are worth the price, especially considering the time restraint, or if there are other better options available.

If anyone has experience please let me know and thanks in advance for your recommendations.

p.s. I'm not opposed to buying online material, ex. rosetta stone, if people feel there is a reasonable success rate there. I feel I can personally help her learn to read and write and also communicate with her to help her practice speaking English. Would online software combined with a paid English tutor, with my help on the side, be a reasonable, less costly way to go?

[MaeJoMTB]

Yes, I've had experience in English schools with foreign language pupils.

You put them in a normal school with the rest of the children their age.

No special help, sink or swim.

Hard on them for the first few months.

No need to spend any extra money at all, an 8 year old will be very flexible.

Within 1 year they will be speaking English like a native.

Doesn't work if there are children who speak their own language in the class.

Everyone else has to be speaking English, so they are forced to adapt.

Works perfectly up to and including children up to age 11, more problematic after that age.

(These children were Portuguese whose parents were recruited to work in a factory in the UK, only 1 allowed in the same class, so they were forced to integrate).

Also done it at home in Thailand with a 12 year old Thai girl, moved into my house where we only speak English, at 16 she's a native English speaker.

Works every time, but they have to be given absolutely no choice in the language they speak.

Edited June 28, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[NeverSure]

OP, US schools have ESL teachers. In fact an ESL/education degree is a hot item. What MaeJoMTB said. The child will get total immersion plus one or two separate classes a day for ESL. This is by far the best way as within a year the child will be fluent and it won't cost you anything.

[chingmai331]

I can agree with MaeJo IF the child were transported tomorrow to USA. But the kid is 8 yrs now and may not arrive in USA until she is 10 years old. Sounds like the dad wants to get some help now, not later. So, what to do now, in Thailand to help her?

Sure, total immersion works great but where to find that in CM for her? If private english speaking school not possible, then private, USA speaking, tutor might be 2nd best. Don't see how a bloke from Perth, WA, the Scottish highlands or London town could help; even i can't understand those guys,

[MaeJoMTB]

^^

If he wants to start now, only use English in the home, that includes mum too.

Worked for mine.

[CMMCB]

Hi CNEUY3, another language teacher chipping in here...

While you seem to have missed a great opportunity to communicate with your daughter in English from the day she was born (if not earlier, actually), it's not too late to start.

1. Use only English with her yourself from today, but don't get upset with her if she replies in Thai occasionally, especially at first.

2. Read to/with her regularly. Stories she'll enjoy, not textbook stuff.

3. Provide access to lots of English language songs, films, tv, etc and encourage her to listen/watch.

4. Try to find English-speaking friends of her own age for her to play with.

This should do most of the work, but you could also consider schools/tutors too, espcially for writing skills.

[lj cm]

British Council is very good. My son "upgraded" his English a lot there.

http://www.britishcouncil.or.th/en/english/schools/chiang-mai.

But; I don't know if they accept young children there. Call them!.

[ilostmypassword]

Yes, I've had experience in English schools with foreign language pupils.

You put them in a normal school with the rest of the children their age.

No special help, sink or swim.

Hard on them for the first few months.

No need to spend any extra money at all, an 8 year old will be very flexible.

Within 1 year they will be speaking English like a native.

Doesn't work if there are children who speak their own language in the class.

Everyone else has to be speaking English, so they are forced to adapt.

Works perfectly up to and including children up to age 11, more problematic after that age.

(These children were Portuguese whose parents were recruited to work in a factory in the UK, only 1 allowed in the same class, so they were forced to integrate).

Also done it at home in Thailand with a 12 year old Thai girl, moved into my house where we only speak English, at 16 she's a native English speaker.

Works every time, but they have to be given absolutely no choice in the language they speak.

That age of 11 is actually an average. It's about the average age that kids begin to go through puberty. For most children, the onset of puberty seems to result in a decline in language acquisition ability. My daughter went to an international school, Lanna, here which had a fair number of thai students but enough english speaking students so that now she is entirely blingual. They also gave her intensive ELS for 2 years. But I think that at the first 2 schools you cited most of the kids are thai speakers. So that probably won't work.

[MrBrad]

I agree with the posts above that encourage you to spend considerable effort now in order to give her a more natural accent. In language acquisition there's something referred to as "fossilization" that takes place around the time of puberty. We've heard this in listening to non-native speakers of English who learned their second (or 3rd or more) language after they reached puberty. Their grammar and sentence structure may be spot on, but their accent is faulty. It's a dead giveaway that the speaker is not a native. Some of us may speak almost impeccable Thai or Spanish, but for sure we could not pass for being native speakers unless we studied well before puberty. Big league news presenters receive intensive and expensive accent training to wipe out the regional accents that they may have grown up with. So, work with her as much as possible now.

As you may know, there is no "v" sound in Thai. This is true also for both of the "th" sounds, and to a lesser extent the "z" and the "sh" and "zh." The final "s" sound does not exist in Thai, and the same is true for final "l" and final "r." For vowels, English has a couple that are not in Thai: "u" as in "up," and "i" as in "it." When transliterating English words in Thai, these bugaboo sounds cannot be written using the limited Thai characters; therefore, they're consistently wrong, and so the learner always will pronounce some English words wrong. The "th" in the number "three" and "thank you" will be written as a (Thai) "t" only. The "th" in "mother" is written and pronounced like a "d." One "th" is vocalized, and the other "th" isn't. Also, you need to quickly and slightly extend your tongue between your teeth to make a proper "th." Work with a mirror, you'll see.

"V" is almost always written as a Thai "w." The "v" is made exactly like an "f" with one's teeth and lips, but the "v" also is vocalized, whereas the "f" isn't. The initial "r" in English is not the same as a Thai "r." Forming one's lips as if to make a "w" and then pronouncing the "r" is what helps to make the difference between "river" and "liver." We've all seen the words "write" and "wrong" among others that are spelled similarly with the initial "w." The "w" is a holdover from early spelling style, but it's there for a (w)reason. The final "r" is not pronounced with the "w," of course. Help her to undo her incorrect pronunciation.

I highly recommend introducing her to reading for enjoyment. There is no better vocabulary builder. Books need to be at her reading level or she will be overwhelmed and discouraged. If need be, start with Dr Suess books. Be careful about buying books that are published in Thailand; there are many mistakes, as a rule. Furthermore, most Thai-English books have way too many Thai helps, that is, lots of definitions and translations available on each page. Readers will come to lean on the Thai, rather than staying with the English text.

Reading aloud 15 minutes a day should be a minimum routine. 16 minutes, of course, would be even better. (And that goes for all of us; turn off the TV.) Take turns reading pages or even paragraphs, if needed. Act out characters. Make it fun. In time she will be reading stories like Black Beauty, Treasure Island, and A Christmas Carol. Graduated books (books written specifically for different level of reading ability) are available at Asia Books, DK Bookstore, and the Siriwong Bookstore. She will surprise her friends when they see she's reading something other than comic books, or something that doesn't have a picture on every page...maybe even no pictures at all!

Here's more on fossilization: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlanguage_fossilization#Fossilization

Sorry for the long-winded post. I got a bit carried away. Good luck.

[romain22]

Google "Sataban" this is a schools directory and will find the right International or Thai School for your daugther (you can search by tuition, location etc...)

Otherwise, I agree Panyaden is a very good school but if your budget is lower, Sarasas is quite cheap and you are ssured to get your daughter to improve her English quite fast.

Romain

Edited June 29, 2015 by romain22

[Saan]

Have a look at the accelerated learning courses. They are total immersion courses where only English is spoken. They are very intensive and might be of help when you return to America and your daughter's English is not up to scratch. My late wife taught the Cambridge Accelerated Learning Method (CALM) in Australia and many of her students wereThais. As an aside, there is now a scholarship in her name at Korat University to teach Thai women English.

But getting her up to scratch here and now, as has been suggested, seems the best way to go. You might research how these accelerated courses are done and apply their principles in your home. Once inside the door, only English spoken. Of course the kid mightn't come home then.

[ilostmypassword]

Google "Sataban" this is a schools directory and will find the right International or Thai School for your daugther (you can search by tuition, location etc...)

Otherwise, I agree Panyaden is a very good school but if your budget is lower, Sarasas is quite cheap and you are ssured to get your daughter to improve her English quite fast.

Romain

I know 2 people who have sent their children to Sarasas. Both were very disappointed in the quality of education there particularly as regards English. Most of the students are Thai and spend a lot of time being bewildered in the classes taught in English. Given the large class size and the fact that few students speak English, I don't see how attending this school can help your daughter to acquire English. I can't find their web site now - it seems to be defunct - but the quality of the English on the English pages was ludicrously bad.

[chingmai331]

And, unless daughter sees valuable need to learn English, she may be quite unwilling to spend the effort and time now. Just coz dad says 'gotta learn english' does not mean that will happen. 2 years for a young kid seems a long way in the future. Lots of interaction with daughter and native speakers will also help, so dad, find your best friends and have a weekly chat-around, book reading, home cooked (UK, USA) meal and let them TALK to the kid.

And girls better than boys at lang acquisition. Also, just coz she might not get to the 'native' level does not mean she won't be a perfect communicator in English. No one would mistake Henry Kissinger as a native english but his english communication superior to most 'natives'.

[MrBrad]

Oh, and one more very important thing: Don't speak caveman English to her. And be sure that your expat friends also live by this rule when they are around her.

This bewildering choice by so many farang in Thailand keeps the Thais talking like they learned their English behind the barn. Thais will never learn how to speak well if they are continually treated as being incapable of learning. The use of proper tenses can be acquired readily when the learner is exposed to it. Don't reinforce bad habits.

[MaeJoMTB]

Not to mention, English language Tv only.

Lots of cartoons available.

My 3 year old loves Scooby Doo.

(My wife says, 'what's the dog saying, I can't understand him')

[junglechef]

My 3 boys attend ABS (Ambassador Bilingual School) and love it. The two older one's are Thai and started there for one term (1/2 year) last year and 1 1/2 months so far this term and their progress is great! The middle one is 11 yrs old and spoke very little English before and I had my concerns but he is thriving there. The school really is set up for these kind of students.

Feel free to PM me if you'd like to discuss and I advise a visit too.

[Awk]

If money is not the main consideration, one of the International schools seems like the obvious choice to me.

[Johpa]

Hopefully you have been speaking to your daughter in English. Just focus on comprehension. Also, take her to the tourist and ex-pat locations where everyone is speaking English for further exposure. Either way, at her young age, once she relocates to the US she will quickly, about one year, become fluent in English. If she arrives before puberty the she will likely lose any retained accent. Spending money on some international school may speed up the process, but is not necessary.

[junglechef]

Though I don't have experience with Internstional schools was under the assumption that proficiency in English was necessary. The bilingual school I mentioned has Thai speaking teacher to help those students making the transition. I feel that a child doesn't have to or that one wouldn't want their's to miss out on the education of the other subjects while learning English.

[Awk]

Though I don't have experience with Internstional schools was under the assumption that proficiency in English was necessary. The bilingual school I mentioned has Thai speaking teacher to help those students making the transition. I feel that a child doesn't have to or that one wouldn't want their's to miss out on the education of the other subjects while learning English.

From what I've read, bilingual is rarely the best choice, and children often end up with only poor to mediocre knowledge of either language, though I am sure there are many exceptions.

No doubt the first months at an international school will be somewhat traumatic for a child who does not know any English, but I have seen children like that at my daughters school. I think those children are required to attend (and pay extra for) extra or "special" English classes until they are up to speed. At least I have seen that up to and including the age of grade one I think, though I am not sure about older children. Perhaps there is a English proficiency requirement there.

Also, I think most international schools here operate on a "two teachers per class" principle. One is the native english speaking teacher, and one is the native Thai teacher "assistant". Presumably the latter would be more involved in the beginning if the child speaks only Thai.

[MrBrad]

What happened to cneuy3? He asks for good information, and then vanishes. Huh.

Should we continue trying to assist?

[junglechef]

Though I don't have experience with Internstional schools was under the assumption that proficiency in English was necessary. The bilingual school I mentioned has Thai speaking teacher to help those students making the transition. I feel that a child doesn't have to or that one wouldn't want their's to miss out on the education of the other subjects while learning English.

From what I've read, bilingual is rarely the best choice, and children often end up with only poor to mediocre knowledge of either language, though I am sure there are many exceptions.

No doubt the first months at an international school will be somewhat traumatic for a child who does not know any English, but I have seen children like that at my daughters school. I think those children are required to attend (and pay extra for) extra or "special" English classes until they are up to speed. At least I have seen that up to and including the age of grade one I think, though I am not sure about older children. Perhaps there is a English proficiency requirement there.

Also, I think most international schools here operate on a "two teachers per class" principle. One is the native english speaking teacher, and one is the native Thai teacher "assistant". Presumably the latter would be more involved in the beginning if the child speaks only Thai.

Perhaps your right. I stated my expertise or there lack of with Inter schools but the reason I decided on a bilingual is that my children are Thai, live here and might very well do so for the rest of their lives. Not only does this solution give them options if they choice to go elsewhere as the school's program is 70% in English. But they also do the full Thai curriculum which is not only necessary to do well in the Thai exams for higher education here but also I know some Thai kids who are graduates of Inter schools here and cannot read or write Thai well which doesn't bode well for them if they plan on a life here.

[naboo]

Perhaps your right. I stated my expertise or there lack of with Inter schools but the reason I decided on a bilingual is that my children are Thai, live here and might very well do so for the rest of their lives. Not only does this solution give them options if they choice to go elsewhere as the school's program is 70% in English. But they also do the full Thai curriculum which is not only necessary to do well in the Thai exams for higher education here but also I know some Thai kids who are graduates of Inter schools here and cannot read or write Thai well which doesn't bode well for them if they plan on a life here.

Precisely the reason I will not be having my daughter attend an international school. She is Thai, she needs to be able to read and write Thai to a high standard as well as English. International schools do not put enough emphasis on the Thai language for me, and rightly so - they are there to provide an education for expat children abroad so that the child can move in and out of home country as is required with minimised disruption to education.

But the OP is not looking for that, the OP wants a school for his (adopted?) Thai daughter who will be moving to the USA in two years. My advice would be to bring the move forward to now if possible - as has been stated, the later you leave it the more difficult it is to acquire a second language. Having said that, I taught in the UK in a school with many immigrant children and we had Polish and Pakistani kids turn up at 13 who were fluent in English within a year. Obviously the school had plans in place to deal with these students but it is possible.

If a more immediate move is not possible, I would recommend an American international school where the students are mainly foreign. I wouldn't normally recommend Grace with its religious slant on all things, but its probably the best immersion in English available.

[ilostmypassword]

I don't know if they will accept children who aren't proficient in English. Or those who have been brought up to respect science.

[Saan]

Though I don't have experience with Internstional schools was under the assumption that proficiency in English was necessary. The bilingual school I mentioned has Thai speaking teacher to help those students making the transition. I feel that a child doesn't have to or that one wouldn't want their's to miss out on the education of the other subjects while learning English.

From what I've read, bilingual is rarely the best choice, and children often end up with only poor to mediocre knowledge of either language, though I am sure there are many exceptions.

No doubt the first months at an international school will be somewhat traumatic for a child who does not know any English, but I have seen children like that at my daughters school. I think those children are required to attend (and pay extra for) extra or "special" English classes until they are up to speed. At least I have seen that up to and including the age of grade one I think, though I am not sure about older children. Perhaps there is a English proficiency requirement there.

Also, I think most international schools here operate on a "two teachers per class" principle. One is the native english speaking teacher, and one is the native Thai teacher "assistant". Presumably the latter would be more involved in the beginning if the child speaks only Thai.

Perhaps your right. I stated my expertise or there lack of with Inter schools but the reason I decided on a bilingual is that my children are Thai, live here and might very well do so for the rest of their lives. Not only does this solution give them options if they choice to go elsewhere as the school's program is 70% in English. But they also do the full Thai curriculum which is not only necessary to do well in the Thai exams for higher education here but also I know some Thai kids who are graduates of Inter schools here and cannot read or write Thai well which doesn't bode well for them if they plan on a life here.

You are right about some kids falling behind in Thai at international schools. A friend's daughter's Thai was neglected at the school. She is a very bright kid top or near top in most subjects. He took from the school and put her into a more Thai biased school but was so horrified by their general education standard that he had to return his daughter to the international school. He solved the problem by having her tutored in Thai.

[Awk]

Though I don't have experience with Internstional schools was under the assumption that proficiency in English was necessary. The bilingual school I mentioned has Thai speaking teacher to help those students making the transition. I feel that a child doesn't have to or that one wouldn't want their's to miss out on the education of the other subjects while learning English.

From what I've read, bilingual is rarely the best choice, and children often end up with only poor to mediocre knowledge of either language, though I am sure there are many exceptions.

No doubt the first months at an international school will be somewhat traumatic for a child who does not know any English, but I have seen children like that at my daughters school. I think those children are required to attend (and pay extra for) extra or "special" English classes until they are up to speed. At least I have seen that up to and including the age of grade one I think, though I am not sure about older children. Perhaps there is a English proficiency requirement there.

Also, I think most international schools here operate on a "two teachers per class" principle. One is the native english speaking teacher, and one is the native Thai teacher "assistant". Presumably the latter would be more involved in the beginning if the child speaks only Thai.

Perhaps your right. I stated my expertise or there lack of with Inter schools but the reason I decided on a bilingual is that my children are Thai, live here and might very well do so for the rest of their lives. Not only does this solution give them options if they choice to go elsewhere as the school's program is 70% in English. But they also do the full Thai curriculum which is not only necessary to do well in the Thai exams for higher education here but also I know some Thai kids who are graduates of Inter schools here and cannot read or write Thai well which doesn't bode well for them if they plan on a life here.

You are right about some kids falling behind in Thai at international schools. A friend's daughter's Thai was neglected at the school. She is a very bright kid top or near top in most subjects. He took from the school and put her into a more Thai biased school but was so horrified by their general education standard that he had to return his daughter to the international school. He solved the problem by having her tutored in Thai.

Mrs. Awk also noted that was the case with the daughter of an acquaintance of her's, so I suspect it is quite common. Extra tutoring in Thai in a few years is my plan too.