Do Thais really have to learn English in school?

[masuk]

Of course it's the education system employing some of

The so called English Teachers; they have some sort

of degree, in something, and feel they are capable of

teaching English. Don't speak Thai and very poor

Grasp of the English language ...And you expect the

students to learn....so sad.

The schools I've worked at in Indonesia, using the local language (L1) was totally disallowed.

I once met the parents of one of my students, and chatted to them in Indonesian. The student was amazed and said "I didn't know you could speak Indonesian!" I told him his parents paid good money for him to learn English, and that's what you're getting.

Sure, knowing the local language sure helps when you're at the markets, but NOT in the classroom.

I do agree that holding 'some sort of degree' is a bit open-ended, and a degree in soil science or economics is not much of a help. At the same time, there's still a good few of us old duffers who know a bit of English and have been around, yet barred from teaching.

[MaeJoMTB]

with entrance exam to university giving all students an English test(speaking, listening, reading, writing and grammar) you would think they would take it serious enough.

Nah, you can cheat.

CM university had their entrance tests last year, two days with an overnight.

The English test was given for them to do at home in the evening, about 20 copied my answers.

Quite a lot of the multiple choice questions were nonsense questions with either no correct answer, or all correct answers.

No speaking or listening, just a take home multiple choice.

[mike324]

no matter how bad the education is, the average Thais still speaks better English than many first world Asian countries...

You don't get about (to neighboring countries of Thailand) much!

Why is it so that Thailand in near the bottom ranking of the Asean countries for English speaking/communication?

And what are these "first world Asian countries you refer to?

I know English skills of Myanmar and Vietnam folks who have basic education are a bit better than Thais.

"First world Asian countries" such as Japan, Taiwan, South Korea ...not as many people can speak English in the big cities compare to Thailand.

Over the past ten years I have visited Japan and Korea (plus Singapore) and found that communicating was way easier than in Thailand both in the large cities and the smaller towns.

You made reference to Myanmar & Vietnam but what about the English skills in Malaysia, Cambodia and Lao?

From my many travels to these countries I have also found their English skills far superior to Thailand.

Amazing Thailand?.

Singapore and Malaysia should not be even included as English is pretty much a mother tongue in both countries.

I have to disagree with you that on the note of Japan and Korea, your average waiters don't speak a word of English. Perhaps it is because there are not as many tourists in those countries to make local restaurants hire English speakers. But again I can argue that its not reallly the case, if you walk on the street and ask a local for direction you will not find many folks who can speak English compare to if you ask a local on the street in Bangkok.

Again I don't deny some of these less developed neighboring countries have far superior education and English speaking skills compare to Thailand. Just making the point about develop asian nations .... but if you think otherwise I have nothing more to say, have a good day!

[Maailmanmatti]

I think it's a lot about shyness rather than bad education. I've spent a lot of time in India and the people there just keep talking and talking no matter how bad their English.. and so they learn. Thais are often just too shy for this and won't learn because of lack of self confidence.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

[lostoday]

Of course it's the education system employing some of

The so called English Teachers; they have some sort

of degree, in something, and feel they are capable of

teaching English. Don't speak Thai and very poor

Grasp of the English language ...And you expect the

students to learn....so sad.

The schools I've worked at in Indonesia, using the local language (L1) was totally disallowed.

I once met the parents of one of my students, and chatted to them in Indonesian. The student was amazed and said "I didn't know you could speak Indonesian!" I told him his parents paid good money for him to learn English, and that's what you're getting.

Sure, knowing the local language sure helps when you're at the markets, but NOT in the classroom.

I do agree that holding 'some sort of degree' is a bit open-ended, and a degree in soil science or economics is not much of a help. At the same time, there's still a good few of us old duffers who know a bit of English and have been around, yet barred from teaching.

Good thing too. Speaking only English in the classroom is a disaster and an excuse for the teacher not prepared to teach in Thailand.

[masuk]

You've obviously not heard of "Immersion Teaching" .

In the UK, some schools teach entire subjects such as history, in the student's elected language.

The more students are exposed to the language they're learning, the better.

If they stopped dubbing all TV here into Thai, and used more English, it would be a good start. Many countries use sub-titles in foreign programs, and it's not a problem. Also helps no end in speed-reading!!

[lostoday]

You've obviously not heard of "Immersion Teaching" .

In the UK, some schools teach entire subjects such as history, in the student's elected language.

The more students are exposed to the language they're learning, the better.

If they stopped dubbing all TV here into Thai, and used more English, it would be a good start. Many countries use sub-titles in foreign programs, and it's not a problem. Also helps no end in speed-reading!!

I've watched it from both sides as a teacher and a student. I've watched teachers who don't speak English become the laughing stock of the class. If you speak Thai and want to use immersion teaching that's OK. I don't like it and I don't learn well by that method. My complaint is the English teachers who don't speak Thai use immersion as a crutch for not being prepared to teach in Thailand by at least learning the basics of the language.

Most of the English teachers I've met who used immersion teaching ended up teaching the class how to make paper flowers or airplanes or sing songs out of frustration trying to follow a lesson plan in English.

Edited July 1, 2015 by lostoday

[Eagleizer]

Duch, Scandinavian , German speak so many languages because their own language is spoken only in their own coutry l

Why so few English people speak other languages than English ? easy to answer : they know that their language is the most spoken and studied in the world

Thai people speak bad English because their education system is bad , but as said above they are very gifted for foreign languages

French is the sixth language in the world ( 220 million people ) , and for the number of countries where it is the official language, it is the second language ( 29 countries , after English ) in the world : not too bad for a language that nobody studies

You might be right in some of your claims, but this:

"Why so few English people speak other languages than English ? easy to answer : they know that their language is the most spoken and studied in the world"

I would guess that most Chinese people know their own language pretty well

Then there is Spanish...

On a side note:

A Russian friend who have a very good education told me that when

she went to school, there was nothing "outside the wall", so she did`nt

care to much about learning English. Last year, she moved to Ireland

to learn English. Now I don`t understand a **** she say. LOL

Cheers

[DavisH]

in the west students study french, spanish, german etc and I've never found them to be able to speak it after graduation. just another pathetic thai bash I suppose.

who studies french???

students who choose french as their second language option of course

who is choosing french as their second language option of course...(sarcasm)

Most of the time it's the students who don't qualify for maths / science classes. Having said that, the few who do choose languages generally excel at it (either French / Chinese), and generally they are very good in english too.

[DavisH]

You've obviously not heard of "Immersion Teaching" .

In the UK, some schools teach entire subjects such as history, in the student's elected language.

The more students are exposed to the language they're learning, the better.

If they stopped dubbing all TV here into Thai, and used more English, it would be a good start. Many countries use sub-titles in foreign programs, and it's not a problem. Also helps no end in speed-reading!!

I've watched it from both sides as a teacher and a student. I've watched teachers who don't speak English become the laughing stock of the class. If you speak Thai and want to use immersion teaching that's OK. I don't like it and I don't learn well by that method. My complaint is the English teachers who don't speak Thai use immersion as a crutch for not being prepared to teach in Thailand by at least learning the basics of the language.

Most of the English teachers I've met who used immersion teaching ended up teaching the class how to make paper flowers or airplanes or sing songs out of frustration trying to follow a lesson plan in English.

Speaking the local language is totally unnecessary, especially with young learners. They learn very quickly with the right teacher. I've never had to speak Thai to any student to explain anything in mathematics. I use group work a lot, and occasionally some students will explain to others in Thai, how to do problems. This is at grade 9 level. Now we have a system where students must speak english for the whole lesson, including explanations to their peers. This is the fastest way to get kids to speak, and to speak well. Most Thai english teachers speak Thai 95% of the time in lessons. This is why the students don't speak. They have poor teachers. That's the bottom line.

[lostoday]

I've watched it from both sides as a teacher and a student. I've watched teachers who don't speak English become the laughing stock of the class. If you speak Thai and want to use immersion teaching that's OK. I don't like it and I don't learn well by that method. My complaint is the English teachers who don't speak Thai use immersion as a crutch for not being prepared to teach in Thailand by at least learning the basics of the language.

Most of the English teachers I've met who used immersion teaching ended up teaching the class how to make paper flowers or airplanes or sing songs out of frustration trying to follow a lesson plan in English.

Speaking the local language is totally unnecessary, especially with young learners. They learn very quickly with the right teacher. I've never had to speak Thai to any student to explain anything in mathematics. I use group work a lot, and occasionally some students will explain to others in Thai, how to do problems. This is at grade 9 level. Now we have a system where students must speak english for the whole lesson, including explanations to their peers. This is the fastest way to get kids to speak, and to speak well. Most Thai english teachers speak Thai 95% of the time in lessons. This is why the students don't speak. They have poor teachers. That's the bottom line.

You have 55 students in a non AC classroom I assume? There is kill and then overkill. 95% Thai in an (E)nglish class is wrong so is 95% English. Have you ever taken an immersion Thai class?

[DavisH]

I've watched it from both sides as a teacher and a student. I've watched teachers who don't speak English become the laughing stock of the class. If you speak Thai and want to use immersion teaching that's OK. I don't like it and I don't learn well by that method. My complaint is the English teachers who don't speak Thai use immersion as a crutch for not being prepared to teach in Thailand by at least learning the basics of the language.

Most of the English teachers I've met who used immersion teaching ended up teaching the class how to make paper flowers or airplanes or sing songs out of frustration trying to follow a lesson plan in English.

Speaking the local language is totally unnecessary, especially with young learners. They learn very quickly with the right teacher. I've never had to speak Thai to any student to explain anything in mathematics. I use group work a lot, and occasionally some students will explain to others in Thai, how to do problems. This is at grade 9 level. Now we have a system where students must speak english for the whole lesson, including explanations to their peers. This is the fastest way to get kids to speak, and to speak well. Most Thai english teachers speak Thai 95% of the time in lessons. This is why the students don't speak. They have poor teachers. That's the bottom line.

You have 55 students in a non AC classroom I assume? There is kill and then overkill. 95% Thai in an (E)nglish class is wrong so is 95% English. Have you ever taken an immersion Thai class?

No. English immersion programs are usually found in english program schools, where they learn most of their subjects in english, except for Thai language / Social. I have between 20-30 students in my class, and usually at the lower end. I'm not talking abut regular government schools where they get 1-2 hours of english a week. Immersion means exactly that. If students want to be fluently bilingual, they are better off in a bilingual school where they take subjects in both languages. I've never been asked to translate any english word/phrase into Thai by either a parent or Thai admin in 15 years.

[lostoday]

Speaking the local language is totally unnecessary, especially with young learners. They learn very quickly with the right teacher. I've never had to speak Thai to any student to explain anything in mathematics. I use group work a lot, and occasionally some students will explain to others in Thai, how to do problems. This is at grade 9 level. Now we have a system where students must speak english for the whole lesson, including explanations to their peers. This is the fastest way to get kids to speak, and to speak well. Most Thai english teachers speak Thai 95% of the time in lessons. This is why the students don't speak. They have poor teachers. That's the bottom line.

You have 55 students in a non AC classroom I assume? There is kill and then overkill. 95% Thai in an (E)nglish class is wrong so is 95% English. Have you ever taken an immersion Thai class?

No. English immersion programs are usually found in english program schools, where they learn most of their subjects in english, except for Thai language / Social. I have between 20-30 students in my class, and usually at the lower end. I'm not talking abut regular government schools where they get 1-2 hours of english a week. Immersion means exactly that. If students want to be fluently bilingual, they are better off in a bilingual school where they take subjects in both languages. I've never been asked to translate any english word/phrase into Thai by either a parent or Thai admin in 15 years.

Have you ever taken an immersion Thai class?

[sammygood]

they only have to attend school

not be good / bad at anything

[smotherb]

no matter how bad the education is, the average Thais still speaks better English than many first world Asian countries...

And, on which English language university in Thailand do you live?

[newnative]

The average Thai I meet has little or no English. Example: I live at a large condo built and run by a large Bangkok public company. It is run by a large Thai staff. Only one of the 6-8 front staff workers--the ones dealing with the owners--has a little English. The others, none. Look, it's too late for the current generation; Thailand lost its chance to teach them English. Thailand can start with the next generation, those entering 1st grade. English language instruction needs to start then and be a regular class period every day and it needs to continue on thru high school. The time to learn a language is during elementary school when learning is easy with the right instruction and the following grades reinforce and enrich what has been learned. A crash hiring program of good elementary English teachers--whether Thai or foreign--should be a high priority. But, it's likely things will continue as they are.

[ableguy]

in the west students study french, spanish, german etc and I've never found them to be able to speak it after graduation. just another pathetic thai bash I suppose.

who studies french???

People who live in France dumbo.

[newnative]

You're totally missing the point, Ayjaydee. Yes, I studied French in school and, yes, I seldom use it. Why? Because any time I meet someone from France we speak English because their English is always better than my French. I'm sure it is the same with people who studied German and Spanish. I've never met anyone from Germany or Spain that doesn't have good English and we always speak English. Same with Russians I meet, Italians, Swiss, and so on. They have all been able to make themselves understood in English. The point is English is the universal language and Thailand should be teaching it much better than it does.

[Linzz]

no matter how bad the education is, the average Thais still speaks better English than many first world Asian countries...

You don't get about (to neighboring countries of Thailand) much!

Why is it so that Thailand in near the bottom ranking of the Asean countries for English speaking/communication?

And what are these "first world Asian countries you refer to?

I know English skills of Myanmar and Vietnam folks who have basic education are a bit better than Thais.

"First world Asian countries" such as Japan, Taiwan, South Korea ...not as many people can speak English in the big cities compare to Thailand.

Over the past ten years I have visited Japan and Korea (plus Singapore) and found that communicating was way easier than in Thailand both in the large cities and the smaller towns.

You made reference to Myanmar & Vietnam but what about the English skills in Malaysia, Cambodia and Lao?

From my many travels to these countries I have also found their English skills far superior to Thailand.

Amazing Thailand?.

There is the fact of colonization by European countries of nations surrounding Thailand which hasn't been mentioned yet. English is universal in India, Vietnam, French/ Englsh, Mayanmar English...Thailand was never invaded except by the Japanese in recent history

[smotherb]

no matter how bad the education is, the average Thais still speaks better English than many first world Asian countries...

Try researching if you have no idea. Thailand is ranked lower than any other Asian country except Kazakstan.

http://www.asianscientist.com/2011/03/academia/asia-english-proficiency-lower-than-expected-worldwide/

[gerryBScot]

Immersion Teaching - just doesn't work in relation to learning English at school in Thailand. Now if you are learning French in France or Canada or some other francophone country it makes perfect sense because you are 'surrounded' by that language. So when you hit the streets after class, it is being used in all situations. It makes perfect sense.

People use Immersion Teaching in Thailand to justify what is in fact reprehensible negligence. For example kids are midstreamed, joining a Grade 5 class in a bilingual school as new students. They are put in a class where the majority of the students have been exposed to NES teachers for at least five years; the newcomer is quite literally thrown in and is left to sink or swim. They are abandoned and the nearest thing to support that they will receive is to be sat next to the 'best' student in the class in the hope that some of the latter's magic will rub off. The 'best' student usually resents this 'responsibility' and in keeping with the shabby nature of the whole approach,'best' student doesn't receive any help or support in how to be a 'peer' teacher. In fact their role is very commplex

This is Immersion Teaching as I know it Thai style and it really sets back these unfortunate midstreamed learners.

[mike324]

no matter how bad the education is, the average Thais still speaks better English than many first world Asian countries...

Try researching if you have no idea. Thailand is ranked lower than any other Asian country except Kazakstan.

http://www.asianscientist.com/2011/03/academia/asia-english-proficiency-lower-than-expected-worldwide/

Perhaps I should rephrase it, the average Thai that you encounter with in the city speaks better English than many first world Asian countries.

The link is not an accurate reflection of real life encounter. Have you even been to Russia and see how many people can speak English?

If you even care to do some research the research is done by English First, a English training company. And the way they collected data was via free English tests online. There are even criticism regarding to the way they collect data as they simply did not have enough data samplings for many countries.

[masuk]

I certainly would have put Singapore at the top, but I'm not sure that it's a 'native language'. Certainly all four languages/races there get equal treatment on the underground announcements, signs, warnings etc. but it takes a few days to wrap your head around "Singlish." Their written English is excellent, even more so if they've attended one of the English based schools.

I was impressed in the Philippines, that so many spoke English, even the lady stall holders.

Whatever, I'm afraid that the average Thai tourist travelling around Asia is going to be left out in the cold. Maybe it's better down in BKK.

[lostoday]

I certainly would have put Singapore at the top, but I'm not sure that it's a 'native language'. Certainly all four languages/races there get equal treatment on the underground announcements, signs, warnings etc. but it takes a few days to wrap your head around "Singlish." Their written English is excellent, even more so if they've attended one of the English based schools.

I was impressed in the Philippines, that so many spoke English, even the lady stall holders.

Whatever, I'm afraid that the average Thai tourist travelling around Asia is going to be left out in the cold. Maybe it's better down in BKK.

Maybe the tourists could try immersion Thai and get up to speed quick like the kids?

Edited July 7, 2015 by lostoday

[smotherb]

no matter how bad the education is, the average Thais still speaks better English than many first world Asian countries...

Try researching if you have no idea. Thailand is ranked lower than any other Asian country except Kazakstan.

http://www.asianscientist.com/2011/03/academia/asia-english-proficiency-lower-than-expected-worldwide/

Perhaps I should rephrase it, the average Thai that you encounter with in the city speaks better English than many first world Asian countries.

The link is not an accurate reflection of real life encounter. Have you even been to Russia and see how many people can speak English?

If you even care to do some research the research is done by English First, a English training company. And the way they collected data was via free English tests online. There are even criticism regarding to the way they collect data as they simply did not have enough data samplings for many countries.

Sorry, I seem to have missed your point.

I have researched English First--http://www.ef.co.th/__/~/media/efcom/epi/2014/full-reports/ef-epi-2013-report-master.pdf

Their study does not include all Asian countries and only Kazakstan, Algeria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Panama are lower than Thailand; while Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, India, Vietnam, and China are all higher than Thailand.

Perhaps, I have misunderstood, what do you consider to be first world Asian countries?

[coulson]

in the west students study french, spanish, german etc and I've never found them to be able to speak it after graduation. just another pathetic thai bash I suppose.

who studies french???

People who live in France dumbo.

I studied French as a second language, along with the Majority of people in my Country. If it wasn't French it was Spanish or German as the original comment states, and I could hold a reasonable conversation, I hope that corrects all three of the above comments.

Edited July 7, 2015 by coulson

[coulson]

I certainly would have put Singapore at the top, but I'm not sure that it's a 'native language'. Certainly all four languages/races there get equal treatment on the underground announcements, signs, warnings etc. but it takes a few days to wrap your head around "Singlish." Their written English is excellent, even more so if they've attended one of the English based schools.

I was impressed in the Philippines, that so many spoke English, even the lady stall holders.

Whatever, I'm afraid that the average Thai tourist travelling around Asia is going to be left out in the cold. Maybe it's better down in BKK.

I thought Singapore's native language was 'English'?

You are right though, the way they speak is so distinct you could pick it a mile off, not just the suffix lah's lor's, it's the tone and speed.

Phillippines I absolutely agree, they are miles ahead of other Asians. You look around where I have worked the past few years as an expat, the Thai's drive trucks/ cars and maybe get a few in labor, the Filipo's get the better paid office jobs.

Who says it doesn't pay to learn English?

[duanebigsby]

Immersion Teaching - just doesn't work in relation to learning English at school in Thailand. Now if you are learning French in France or Canada or some other francophone country it makes perfect sense because you are 'surrounded' by that language. So when you hit the streets after class, it is being used in all situations. It makes perfect sense.

People use Immersion Teaching in Thailand to justify what is in fact reprehensible negligence. For example kids are midstreamed, joining a Grade 5 class in a bilingual school as new students. They are put in a class where the majority of the students have been exposed to NES teachers for at least five years; the newcomer is quite literally thrown in and is left to sink or swim. They are abandoned and the nearest thing to support that they will receive is to be sat next to the 'best' student in the class in the hope that some of the latter's magic will rub off. The 'best' student usually resents this 'responsibility' and in keeping with the shabby nature of the whole approach,'best' student doesn't receive any help or support in how to be a 'peer' teacher. In fact their role is very commplex

This is Immersion Teaching as I know it Thai style and it really sets back these unfortunate midstreamed learners.

How is Canada a francophone nation?

If you took immersion French at school in Vancouver you'd never hear it outside of class unless your parents were French, then you wouldn't need immersion.

[mike324]

no matter how bad the education is, the average Thais still speaks better English than many first world Asian countries...

Try researching if you have no idea. Thailand is ranked lower than any other Asian country except Kazakstan.

http://www.asianscientist.com/2011/03/academia/asia-english-proficiency-lower-than-expected-worldwide/

Perhaps I should rephrase it, the average Thai that you encounter with in the city speaks better English than many first world Asian countries.

The link is not an accurate reflection of real life encounter. Have you even been to Russia and see how many people can speak English?

If you even care to do some research the research is done by English First, a English training company. And the way they collected data was via free English tests online. There are even criticism regarding to the way they collect data as they simply did not have enough data samplings for many countries.

Sorry, I seem to have missed your point.

I have researched English First--http://www.ef.co.th/__/~/media/efcom/epi/2014/full-reports/ef-epi-2013-report-master.pdf

Their study does not include all Asian countries and only Kazakstan, Algeria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Panama are lower than Thailand; while Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, India, Vietnam, and China are all higher than Thailand.

Perhaps, I have misunderstood, what do you consider to be first world Asian countries?

Based on first hand experience, if you walk in Bangkok and ask questions on the street you are most likely to meet a Thai who can speak basic English more so than in Seoul, Tokyo, or Taipei. Although I would say Taipei isn't too bad nowadays as many kids can understand the basics, but adults I feel less so compare to Bangkok.

The link you showed proves nothing, and the way they collect data is not a good representation of English abilities of normal folks as its not done by random sampling. The way they collect data is asking folks to take the tests online to see their proficiency level. You can read on the link below why its not give a good refection of English proficiency of a given country.

http://monitor.icef.com/2014/01/global-language-survey-links-english-proficiency-to-economic-and-social-development/

Paragraph below is from the 2nd link you sent talking about how their data was collected.

"We recognize that the test-taking population represented in this index is self-selected and not guaranteed to be representative of the country as a whole. Only those people either wanting to learn English or curious about their English skills will participate in one of these tests. This could skew scores lower or higher than for the general population. In addition, because the tests are online, people without internet access or unused to online applications are automatically excluded. In countries where internet usage is low, the impact is logically the strongest. These biases would tend to skew scores higher than for the general population, excluding poorer, less educated, and less privileged people."

Edited July 7, 2015 by mike324

[jdinasia]

My husband and many of my friends are fluent in English.

None studied overseas.

About 15% of my seniors (=12th grade ) are strong enough to study in regular classes in the US.

Another 40% or so could be in classes in the US in less than a year IF exposed to English more. The rest frankly have little interest. They can function with basic stuff but not complex thinking in a foreign language )