Six Blasts Rock Hat Yai

[sriracha john]

###### I love the south too but it just ain't worth the risk.

Its a real shame that the international media will not mention that this problem is confined to the south. The headlines will include the word(s) "Thailand" not "South Thailand".

As if the issue with visas wasn't putting enough pressure on tourisim, what tourist will want to come here now that they are a target?

Sad days ahead, and I'm sorry to say, but I place the blame directly on the heads of the former/caretaker govt, they are guilty of failing to act.

Channel News Asia reports the flood of tourists departing Hat Yai is almost complete. Hotels are emptying out quick to almost no one left. This will soon result in a Malaysian advisory to urge it's citizens to stay away. Hat Yai's main tourist group are Malaysians, but also the Europeans and North Americans are all leaving Hat Yai, as well, with tales of horror, to repeat again and again once their home, on how they survived the bombings. The targeted areas are increasingly looking like the unknown bombers are specifically targeting tourists. NO ONE HAS CLAIMED RESPONSIBILITY. Authorities are mulling over different theories.

[sriracha john]

The US should be issuing a travel warning for Thailand soon now that foreigners are

being targeted

Malaysia is first up and will likely issue one tomorrow or very soon... the report said.

Additionally, the deceased Canadian was identified as a tourist in the report, however, other sources have said he was a teacher... so it brings up the issue again of tourists working as teachers.

[PeaceBlondie]

I apologize for taking the off-topic bait and debating Christian violence vs. pacifism, and all of the off-topic posts that I caused. I have deleted 8 of them, and suggest some other moderator remove other off-topic posts.

[sriracha john]

Topic - Thailand - Restive South-

Jdinasia

Unfortunately it IS a Muslim movement who are responsible for the bombings in the south. Always has been. Unless i'm very misinformed. Are they being set up or victims of propaganda somehow ??

Lots of reading material available online that clearly point out the different sources of troubles in the Deep South. There are least three, some would say five, different groups that have been shown to be the cause of violence.

[sriracha john]

since this is a seperatist movement and not a "Muslim" thing .... keep thinking and maybe study some of the history. Please leave the dramatic western mind/media drama at home

you seemed pretty informed so can you please tell me

1 what they are seperating from

2 how they want to do it

3 how they want to govern it

4 will it or wont it be a Islamic state with Islamic run schools and universities

I would be very interested to know

when i get answers from this i probably have a few more

I am real interested to know what drives a seperatist too

thanks

all the answers to those questions are avalable with fairly simple searching... give it a try.

If people are interested in these issues, expend the energy (it isn't much) to become well-informed or at least better-informed. Don't expect to be spoon fed information, go out and find out for yourself. It's more reliable that way, too.

this is NOT a crack at you, Blackjack... it's for all that post and it becomes very quickly obvious they know precious little about this issue. When it began, who's involved, people's motivations, group's ideals.... all of these things are necessary to know about to coherently express an opinion....

Thank you.

[jdinasia]

after having spent time trying to educate some folks <including ones asking yet again on this thread .....> the simple fact of people CHOOSING to be bigots is obvious...

Read up on the South of Thailand and get some REAL info ....

[sriracha john]

Give them their own semi-autonomous zone similar to Native American Indian reservations. Only don't make it a complete sh*t end of the stick deal like the Americans did by giving them the most worthless land possible. The land should be farmable, they should have access to ports, industry should be promoted. The zone should be visa free for foreigners, reduced taxation for selected businesses and banks, etc.

I'm slapping myself in disbelief that I'm actually agreeing with Heng.....

Phenomenally incredible.

I'm marking my calendar.

I would add the Southerners should be allowed casinos, same as Native Americans (no need to add "Indian", Heng) have on their reservations.

[jdinasia]

EO ----

your articles were GOOD ... your conclusions were faulty.

It is an indigenous/native people insurgency ...

[sriracha john]

Allow the 3 76, *soon to be 77*, provinces to elect their own governors <supposed to have happened already! But it hasn't!

Now you're talking...

[george]

Give them their own semi-autonomous zone similar to Native American Indian reservations. Only don't make it a complete sh*t end of the stick deal like the Americans did by giving them the most worthless land possible. The land should be farmable, they should have access to ports, industry should be promoted. The zone should be visa free for foreigners, reduced taxation for selected businesses and banks, etc.

I'm slapping myself in disbelief that I'm actually agreeing with Heng.....

Phenomenally incredible.

I'm marking my calendar.

I would add the Southerners should be allowed casinos, same as Native Americans (no need to add "Indian", Heng) have on their reservations.

Slapping myself as well. Should the Maylasian border be set just south of the paradise Island of Phuket? Hmmm....

[sriracha john]

while a spineless amoeba of a Caretaker PM is abroad or hiding as usual,

[Johpa]

This is dreadfully sad - real, moderate Muslims the world over are horrified by the way the fanatics have twisted the interpretations of the Holy Koran to "support" their greed and hate of anyone who does not think and act like them.

No right thinking person could consider them to be real Muslims, they are criminals - pure and simple - filled with hate and loathing of everything.

I lived and worked in the Middle East for a number of years, many of my friends are Muslims, I currently live in a predominantly Muslim area now with a mosque just down the road.

These are normal, happy people, living their lives and following their religion - as is their right.

Alas, the Koran does not need much twisting at all to find interpretations that support violence and hatred towards others, AKA kaffirs. There are far too many websites to list that provide examples of surahs (chapters) in the Koran that can easily be used to justify using force to promote Dar El Islam (the Islamic world, or the House of Islam) against the Dar El Harb (non-Islamic world). Even the term Dar El Harb is often translated as "House of War", although I might find other odious translations for the root word here.

That is not to say that one can not find other verses in the Koran that would support a far more moderate interpretation of Islam, and indeed, having known many Muslims over my lifetime, virtually all have been peaceful and gracious people. But when pressed a bit, they have little religious fodder to argue against those who take a more extreme path.

One would be hard pressed to find such militant verses in either the Buddhist canon or in the New Testament. One might argue about certain verses in the Old Testament and the religion of the Biblical Israelites, but that tribal religion was detroyed with the destruction of their Temple and the exile of the tribes and was replaced by both Rabbinical Judaism, a pacifist reformation of the religion, and also replaced by various "heresies" of the times which eventually, for the most part, morphed into Christianity, another pacifist religion. That is not to say that people have not used these religions for non-pacifist endeavours, but at their core these religions do not support violence as a means of expansion.

Moderate Muslims are indeed "real Muslims", but so also are the extremists. The first Jihad, the Jihad of the soul (jihad bin Nafs), must be between the moderates and the extremists. But I do not see the moderates stepping up to the plate.

And then there is the flag of Saudi Arabia (see below), the country that includes the heart and soul of the Islamic world, Mecca, and posits itself as the guiding light for the Sunni world. Compare its primary symbol with say the symbol of the Christians which was derived form the Egyptian Ankh, the symbol for life.

You can rationalize the violence down south as being primarily sectarian or economic or whatever. But I would argue that the ill feeelings towards the Bangkok elite down south, really no different than the same feelings in Isaan, would not reach the same level of violence without the theological concepts of Dar El Islam vs Dar El Harb.

[bander]

Isn't it wonderful.

The Pope says that Islam is evil and humane.

The moderate Muslims object, but the radical ones react by setting off bombs in Thailand and attacking churches in Palestine.............

Sad to say it rather goes to prove the Pope's point.

The Muslims need to get their act together if they are to be respected.

Do you even know the bombers were Muslim?

If they were, does this mean all Muslims are terrorists?

Maybe they were men, does this mean all men are also terrorists?

Hey, wake up dude, Muslims have been bombing in south Thailand since 2004.

All Muslims is not terrorists but it's convenient to have some extremists to do they'r dirty job.

[sriracha john]

Give them their own semi-autonomous zone similar to Native American Indian reservations. Only don't make it a complete sh*t end of the stick deal like the Americans did by giving them the most worthless land possible. The land should be farmable, they should have access to ports, industry should be promoted. The zone should be visa free for foreigners, reduced taxation for selected businesses and banks, etc.

An Appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last.

Nah, the part about steadily injecting their population with gambling, alcohol (all supplied by Bangkok based big business), and say... rhythmic dancing, is part of the fine print. With the visa free foreigner clause, the long term effect should be a harmless mulatto state... like Brazil. Who knows, maybe it'll also increase Thailand's soccer talent pool.

hahahaha... I just knew it wouldn't last.... ... oh well....

[sriracha john]

Give them their own semi-autonomous zone similar to Native American Indian reservations. Only don't make it a complete sh*t end of the stick deal like the Americans did by giving them the most worthless land possible. The land should be farmable, they should have access to ports, industry should be promoted. The zone should be visa free for foreigners, reduced taxation for selected businesses and banks, etc.

I'm slapping myself in disbelief that I'm actually agreeing with Heng.....

Phenomenally incredible.

I'm marking my calendar.

I would add the Southerners should be allowed casinos, same as Native Americans (no need to add "Indian", Heng) have on their reservations.

Slapping myself as well. Should the Maylasian border be set just south of the paradise Island of Phuket? Hmmm....

If they put it further south... say near the Krabi-Trang border... perhaps Koh Ngai :

And I'm moving there...

*edit* from the beach of Koh Ngai looking East to the mainland... April 20, 2006... ahhh...

[kat]

This is dreadfully sad - real, moderate Muslims the world over are horrified by the way the fanatics have twisted the interpretations of the Holy Koran to "support" their greed and hate of anyone who does not think and act like them.

No right thinking person could consider them to be real Muslims, they are criminals - pure and simple - filled with hate and loathing of everything.

I lived and worked in the Middle East for a number of years, many of my friends are Muslims, I currently live in a predominantly Muslim area now with a mosque just down the road.

These are normal, happy people, living their lives and following their religion - as is their right.

Alas, the Koran does not need much twisting at all to find interpretations that support violence and hatred towards others, AKA kaffirs. There are far too many websites to list that provide examples of surahs (chapters) in the Koran that can easily be used to justify using force to promote Dar El Islam (the Islamic world, or the House of Islam) against the Dar El Harb (non-Islamic world). Even the term Dar El Harb is often translated as "House of War", although I might find other odious translations for the root word here.

That is not to say that one can not find other verses in the Koran that would support a far more moderate interpretation of Islam, and indeed, having known many Muslims over my lifetime, virtually all have been peaceful and gracious people. But when pressed a bit, they have little religious fodder to argue against those who take a more extreme path.

One would be hard pressed to find such militant verses in either the Buddhist canon or in the New Testament. One might argue about certain verses in the Old Testament and the religion of the Biblical Israelites, but that tribal religion was detroyed with the destruction of their Temple and the exile of the tribes and was replaced by both Rabbinical Judaism, a pacifist reformation of the religion, and also replaced by various "heresies" of the times which eventually, for the most part, morphed into Christianity, another pacifist religion. That is not to say that people have not used these religions for non-pacifist endeavours, but at their core these religions do not support violence as a means of expansion.

Moderate Muslims are indeed "real Muslims", but so also are the extremists. The first Jihad, the Jihad of the soul (jihad bin Nafs), must be between the moderates and the extremists. But I do not see the moderates stepping up to the plate.

And then there is the flag of Saudi Arabia (see below), the country that includes the heart and soul of the Islamic world, Mecca, and posits itself as the guiding light for the Sunni world. Compare its primary symbol with say the symbol of the Christians which was derived form the Egyptian Ankh, the symbol for life.

You can rationalize the violence down south as being primarily sectarian or economic or whatever. But I would argue that the ill feeelings towards the Bangkok elite down south, really no different than the same feelings in Isaan, would not reach the same level of violence without the theological concepts of Dar El Islam vs Dar El Harb.

Excellent post Johpa. In terms of Southern Thailand, this current situation precedes religion, because it was a separate kingdom with its own rulers and language that only became a part of Thailand as a series of territorial tradeoffs between European colonists and Thai Kings.

In terms of your post on Islam, one could say that the contradiction between moderate Islam and extremists is a conflict between two Islams: the Islam of Mecca and the Islam of Medina.

Quote from article: Religious Reformation in Islam: “Islam of Mecca” versus “Islam of Medina.” (Al-Islah al-Deeni Fi’l-Islam: Islam “Mecca” Fi Muwajahat Islam “Al-Medina.” (Faithfreedom.org)

“For a long time now, Westerners have been hearing from two divergent groups within Muslims. One group keeps telling them, “Islam is a religion of tolerance, peace, and mercy.” The other tells a contrary story, “Islam is a religion of jihad, killings, and the persecution of non-Muslims.”

“Obviously, Westerners find themselves in a quandary. Which group are they to believe? Is it possible for a religion to proclaim, at the same time, two contradictory messages? Something must have gone wrong with the telling of the story of Islam.

“One explanation is that there are actually two Islams. There is the Islam of Mecca, and then, the Islam of Medina.. The first Islam (as revealed in Mecca) is characterized by peace and the absence of violence; that is when Muhammad was weak and persecuted by the leadership of the Quraish tribe.

“But when he migrated to Medina, he became strong, and eventually organized an Islamic state. It was during this period (622-632,) that he received surahs that called for Jihad against the unbelievers in Mecca, as well as the Jews and Christians in Arabia. Therefore, those who claim that Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance are right; and those who say that Islam is a religion of jihad are right. The problem is: to which Islam are they pointing, is it to “the Islam of Mecca, or the Islam of Medina?”

“Ultimately, if a real reformation is to take place, it would require the adoption of a new view of the sacred text, and the rise of <b.a new fiqh (hermeneutic) based on reason as informed and enlightened by the new sciences. This requires that the reformists must cling to the ‘Meccan Islam,’ with its basic spirituality, tolerance, and love; while at the same time, rejecting the ‘Medinan Islam’that promotes violence and jihad against non-Muslims.”

[jdinasia]

Please try to keep your posts on topic (bombing in Hat Yai) and keep the political/religious hate posts off. A number of posts and at least one member have been removed thus far. Trolling/aggressive posting is not helpful to anyone. Thanks.

Well .... since people WILL NOT keep this out of the Muslim bashing arena ...........

Guss it is time yet again for massive off-topic deletions!

[englishoak]

It is an indigenous/native people insurgency

The southern provinces were originally part of the ancient Kingdom of Pattani, a semi-autonomous Malay region which adopted Islam in the mid-13th century.They speak Yawi, a Malay dialect, and most importantly they are Muslims, abiding by Islamic rules and restrictions. Thailand's Muslims are largely concentrated in the four southern provinces of Narathiwat, Pattani, Songhkla and Yala. those living in the region are also very different from the rest of the Thai population.

Thailand annexed the region in 1902, but the people living there had - and still do have - far more in common with their neighbours in Malaysia.

Increasingly estranged from the Bangkok government, Muslim separatists began an insurgency in the 1970s. The violence eventually died down in the 1990s - but only after the government promised to channel more funds into the region and ensure the Muslim community an adequate political representation.Since TRT came to power there has been growing unrest and finally in 2003 the insurgency resurfaced

The Thai government continues to insist that most of the attacks in the south can be attributed to local criminals.

Analysts say police corruption, drug running and theft by local criminal gangs have often been responsible for the violence in the south.

There are a number of separatist groups known to operate in southern Thailand all are Muslim- including Pulo (the Pattani United Liberation Organisation), BRN (the Barisan Revolusi Nasional) and GMIP (Gerakan Mujahadeen Islam Pattani).

It seems evident that larger organised Islamic separatist groups are playing at least a part in the violence.

In the past, these groups have been linked to larger Islamic organisations such as Jemaah Islamiah - blamed for terrorist attacks across South East Asia - and the Free Aceh Movement (GAM) in the troubled Indonesian province of Aceh.

No group has categorically claimed responsibility for recent attacks, and it remains difficult to be certain who is ultimately behind the upsurge in violence.

But there is an increasing suspicion that Islamic separatists - perhaps allied to international militant groups such as Jemaah Islamiah - are behind the attacks.

But one thing seems certain. If police and security personnel continue to act with such heavy-handed methods, the animosity between them and the Muslim inhabitants of southern Thailand is only likely to increase.

More than 1,400 people, including three Malaysians, have been killed in attacks mostly in Yala, Pattani and Narathiwat provinces since unrest erupted in 2003.

Indigenous/native people insurgency it may be but it still looks like they also happen to be Muslim. Granted it does not seem to be linked with other world issues but I am willing to bet there is a lot of support directly or indirectly from other Islamist organisations.

Either way 1,400 casualties is an incredibly high amount and should be at the very top of a countries priorities.To put it in prespective below are figures from the UK.

the Provisional IRA was responsible for a total of 1781 deaths to date (2004). It has also been estimated that the IRA injured 6000 British Army, UDR and RUC and up to 14,000 civilians, during the Troubles. This was over 4 decades. The current figures in Thailand are over 4 years and only cover deaths not injuries. Now that is scarey

[kat]

"Well .... since people WILL NOT keep this out of the Muslim bashing arena ...........

Guss it is time yet again for massive off-topic deletions!"

Excuse me: where do you see Muslim bashing in my posts? Unless, of course, you are one that calls the discussion of factual information bashing if it falls out of the realm of what you selectively deem permissible.

Secondly: I thought we were having a discussion here. The discussion has veered toward the ANALYSIS and ORIGINS of the bombings, which do involve history and religion.

Now, back on topic.

[jdinasia]

EO

Speculation on your part ... and you didn't cite your source ..... but honey ....it IS an indigenous population without direct representation. Would be if they were Christian ... would be regardless.

Your quotes on Numbers include ALL the peoplekilled in the south .... many of them killed by the Thai Gov't

Keep reading ... next time cite your sources ... and more importantly look for sources that don't support the US/UK war on Islam perspective. <There are some good nuetral folks out there in the media as well as academics>

<<for a fact ---- no support from JI or A'Queda has ever been proven.---- but since this doesn't mesh with the world-view you are pushing ---->>

[kat]

Increasingly estranged from the Bangkok government, Muslim separatists began an insurgency in the 1970s. The violence eventually died down in the 1990s - but only after the government promised to channel more funds into the region and ensure the Muslim community an adequate political representation.Since TRT came to power there has been growing unrest and finally in 2003 the insurgency resurfaced

Oh, the historical roots of this insurgency started before the 1970s (http://www.thailand-travel-guide.de/thailandpattani.html): *or read David Wyatt "Short History of Thailand"

Greater Pattani State

During World War II, Thailand was an ally with Japan and allowed its southern territory to invade British dependencies and colonies on the Malay peninsular. Tun Mahmud Mahyuddin, a Pattani leader, allied himself with the British in promises that after the war should they win, Pattani would be granted independence.

The major source of support came from the Malay people frustrated with the Rathaniyom policy during the reign of Phibul Songkhram where Malays were subjected to assimilation and forced to abandon large amounts of their indigenous culture.

The Malay leader collaborated with the British in launching guerrilla attacks against the Japanese. In 1945, a petition of Malay leaders lead by Tengku Abdul Jalal demanded from the British independence of the 4 southern provinces from Thailand. After the war, there was a period where the Greater Pattani State (Negeri Patani Raya) flag rose in Pattani. However soon enough, the British broke its war promises; reestablished Thai presence in Pattani and the hopes of an independent Pattani was shattered.

This immediately gave rise to many insurgency groups seeking independence. British reasoning behind this move however is to keep Thailand stable, because they are seen as a strategic counterweigh to the communist insurgency in China, Indochina and Malaya.

Islamic Republic of Pattani

During the World War II, along with the Greater Pattani Malay Movement lead by Tun Mahmud Mahyuddin, another guerrilla force under the leadership of Islamic scholar Haji Sulong Tokmina fought alongside against the Japanese. Their stated goal is to create a Islamic republic in Pattani, which frequently put it at odds with Tun Mahmud who wants to reestablish the Pattanese Sultanate (being a prince himself).

Today, the goals and ideas of Haji Sulong Tokmina is still carried on by minor terror groups interested in creating a Islamic republic closely imitating that of the Islamic Revolution in Iran. After the war though, hopes of any independent republic in Pattani was quickly dashed by the British and the Thais.

[jdinasia]

"Well .... since people WILL NOT keep this out of the Muslim bashing arena ...........

Guss it is time yet again for massive off-topic deletions!"

Excuse me: where do you see Muslim bashing in my posts? Unless, of course, you are one that calls the discussion of factual information bashing if it falls out of the realm of what you selectively deem permissible.

Secondly: I thought we were having a discussion here. The discussion has veered toward the ANALYSIS and ORIGINS of the bombings, which do involve history and religion.

Now, back on topic.

Did I mention you Kat? --- No ----

BUT all of the Koran* analysis etc ... by Jopha is both inaccurate <in respect to other religious extremists>> and FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR fom the topic on hand ... which was why I brought Lop3's quote back.

[number6]

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeee and here go the anti-Muslim rants ......

Sorry IMHO when we had troubles in northern ireland plenty on both sides protested - i dont see many muslims protesting against violence anywhere - all i see in world now is intolerence by many muslim communities - probably/certianly egged on - but sorry IMHO if I asked my thai wife if someone siad bad words against Budha against her monachy what should she think - sure she would be angry but just tihnk those people dont understand are stupid etc - she would not issue a fatwas - demonstrate etc

IMHO its up to good muslims and i believe 90%+ are good to stand up and say to the ones leading thme enough -

Till them sad but true normal people like me will just play into hand of extrimists

And I was married to a muslim for 4+ years but in end it failed mostly because of Fatwars etc nad fact i consider thme evil

[number6]

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeee and here go the anti-Muslim rants ......

Sorry IMHO when we had troubles in northern ireland plenty on both sides protested - i dont see many muslims protesting against violence anywhere - all i see in world now is intolerence by many muslim communities - probably/certianly egged on - but sorry IMHO if I asked my thai wife if someone siad bad words against Budha against her monachy what should she think - sure she would be angry but just tihnk those people dont understand are stupid etc - she would not issue a fatwas - demonstrate etc

IMHO its up to good muslims and i believe 90%+ are good to stand up and say to the ones leading thme enough -

Till them sad but true normal people like me will just play into hand of extrimists

And I was married to a muslim for 4+ years but in end it failed mostly because of Fatwars etc nad fact i consider thme evil

sorry for spelling grammar etc i just type to fast - before im hounded by english drammar/spelling police

[sriracha john]

Either way 1,400 casualties is an incredibly high amount and should be at the very top of a countries priorities.To put it in prespective below are figures from the UK.

the Provisional IRA was responsible for a total of 1781 deaths to date (2004). It has also been estimated that the IRA injured 6000 British

The number of people killed in the Deep South now exceeds 1,700.

When does Thaksin take ownership of them?

[dog412]

Please try to keep your posts on topic (bombing in Hat Yai) and keep the political/religious hate posts off. A number of posts and at least one member have been removed thus far. Trolling/aggressive posting is not helpful to anyone. Thanks.

Well .... since people WILL NOT keep this out of the Muslim bashing arena ...........

Guss it is time yet again for massive off-topic deletions!

seems to me most people are on topic. you just seem to "dislike" the fact that the issue also concerns a muslim element. not much assimilation on your part.

[jdinasia]

Dog ------BOMBING in HAT YAI ---- that's the topic

[kat]

"Well .... since people WILL NOT keep this out of the Muslim bashing arena ...........

Guss it is time yet again for massive off-topic deletions!"

Excuse me: where do you see Muslim bashing in my posts? Unless, of course, you are one that calls the discussion of factual information bashing if it falls out of the realm of what you selectively deem permissible.

Secondly: I thought we were having a discussion here. The discussion has veered toward the ANALYSIS and ORIGINS of the bombings, which do involve history and religion.

Now, back on topic.

Did I mention you Kat? --- No ----

BUT all of the Koran* analysis etc ... by Jopha is both inaccurate <in respect to other religious extremists>> and FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR fom the topic on hand ... which was why I brought Lop3's quote back.

Then perhaps you should read Lopburi's post again:

"Please try to keep your posts on topic (bombing in Hat Yai) and keep the political/religious hate posts off ... Trolling/aggressive posting is not helpful to anyone. Thanks."

Since this is a separatist movement that encompasses ethncity, politics, and religion, it is inevitable that a discussion of any length and depth is going to intersect at those topics. A post about either is not necessarily a post of hatred, as any reasonably intelligible person will understand.

I suggest you let the discussants do the discussing, and mods do the moderating, because right now you are neither.

*edit: And for starters, why don't you try explaining why Johpa's posts were inaccurate?

[englishoak]

As usual most current topics of separatism can go back decades even hundreds of years. When do we stop griping about the past and deal with the future?

JD Honey* my source happens to be from the good old BBC and yes they are biased but most of the facts will stand.

I'm well aware of the Gov contribution to the figures and I don't agree with their methods either.

Like it as not the indigenous population IS Muslim and no I don't go around "Muslim bashing" I don't go around pretending there is not a religious connection however when there is one.Nothing judgemental about it but it IS a factor *Honey*

It's like saying the palestinian/Isralie situation is only an indigenous problem when it's clearly anything but.

[naturalpoints]

Isn't it wonderful.

The Pope says that Islam is evil and humane.

The moderate Muslims object, but the radical ones react by setting off bombs in Thailand and attacking churches in Palestine.............

Sad to say it rather goes to prove the Pope's point.

The Muslims need to get their act together if they are to be respected.

Agree with you 100% Astral..............Musi's need to seek the solace and patience of Buddhism.