Police Arrest 21 People Over Long-Running BKK Gem Scam

[jobsworth]

on my first visit to thailand in 1985 i experienced this scam. i like buddha and wats and outside is where the scammers hang out. they took me to several wats which i would not have visited otherwise. then to the shop where they taught me the 4 c's colour, clarity, cut and carrats. they also explained that blue glass is more beautiful than a real saphire which is a very dark blue. next to me somebody was buying many boxes of saphires. they kept talking about harrods and the profit to be made. even if the story was true i enquired in london and found out that there are heavy taxes at every stage. 100% on the value of the gems. 100% on the value of the finished item, like cuff links or a ring. plus the cost of the gold and the manufacturing. one of them kept explaining that he was a student in switzerland and that he and all his fellow thai students took their money in saphires. of course coming from india where the scams are more i saw though them immediately and enjoyed the experience so much that i did it again with another group. but beware about scams, even when you think you know them all there is always one that you don't know.

[keskeseksa]

Finally something is being done about this, nothing had never done until this "undemocratic dictatorship" came into power. Bravo PM Prayut, keep sweeping the rubbish.

[meinanzi]

Amazing how many criminals have been arrested since the coup. It seems that the Thaksin days (do whatever you want as long as I get my billions) are finally coming to an end.

Thanskin has been gone a long time and the scam still persisted.

[riceyummm]

On my first trip to Thailand in 1985 I told a driver I was interested in gems and jewelry, He took me to a couple of places offering garbage at "exuberant" prices. I didn't mention that I was a jeweler and gemologist on a buying trip. I had contacts pre-arranged but thought I would see what else was available. I did very well on that trip and over 60 subsequent trips to HK and BK, one of my main sources of merchandise to keep my store stocked.

Then there's the guys with a tin of pretty gems, a hammer and anvil to show you how tough the rubies and sapphires are by hammering a coin over the culet (point or flat on the bottom of a faceted stone). Technically the stones are real but cheap synthetic flame fusion corundum worth pennies. No one in their right mind would do that to a beautiful natural gem.

[gk10002000]

On about my 5th trip to Thailand back in 2006 I think it was, I went to the Grand Palace and was told my this guy "temple closed for Monks. Open later". Of course it was not closed. You could see all the people going in through the main gate. Not a newbie so I was well aware of such nonsense. But the guy said no cost to me so I went in his Tuk Tuk. Yes he took me to two other temple grounds, one being the marble Wat Thai, then of course the jewelry store. Short little walk through and you could see the workers cutting and polishing or doing whatever they were doing. Gift store was typical souvenirs. The Tuk Tuk guy watched to see if I bought anything. He apparently gets some gas coupons for his vehicle at each stop he brings a tourist to. After about a total of three hours in the morning he begrudgingly took me back to the grand palace. Obviously unhappy I didn't buy anything. I did give him a tip for his time. My only problem with the article is it says: "....where they are sold poor-quality gemstones at exuberant prices". You are only sold gemstones if you BUY them.

[cookee68]

This has been going on for years, taking them to temples as well to make it look good,

[happy2go]

Good job if not simply getting rid of friends competition or friends will open new shops in the area.

[NickJ]

The Death of an Institution.

[impulse]

The Death of an Institution.

"Rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated."

Bangkok Gem Scam (in fact, pretty much all the scams that pop back up before the ink has dried on the headlines)

[TimmyT]

usual farang ranting:

1) it's a fake. they arrest just a few, to entrap more tourisits

2) those arrested just didn't pay enough

3) we will not believe anything, because there is no real democracy like in our beloved West (which we left to live in Thailand)

seems like bitter grandpas on TVF will have the same explanation regardless of what Thai authorities will do....

Edited July 5, 2015 by TimmyT

[dageurreotype]

I'd be more impressed if just one of these 'look we're doing something' headlines ran 'Police have been ordered to enact 100000000000 outstanding arrest warrants' with no tea money being demanded (by both sides) first. Who gives a rats about tourists with too much spending money.

Edited July 5, 2015 by dageurreotype

[gemguy]

When they bought the stones they were happy with their purchase so why did they go back for a refund?

They develop a sense of being either cheated or sold way over priced merchandise while having been more or less sweet talked into buying the loose stones or usually jewelry items and convinced they can make money reselling the goods they purchased back in their home country.

After the purchase, many people use the internet to find out they are a victim of the scam.

Also they worry the items are not genuine so they seek the advice of others and often enough learn about the numerous Gem Identification laboratories here in Bangkok that service the very large and legitimate gem and jewelry trade here in Thailand.

The gem identification laboratories can easily enough confirm the gemstones are genuine and or the jewelry is made using genuine gold or silver.

When asked what the fair price should be or could be the laboratories will not involve themselves in that aspect rather they ask how much did you pay for the items purchased.

Upon hearing the prices paid for the items in question they will inform the clients that they have paid: Far, far, far, far too much relative to what those sort of items can be obtained for relative to all the suppliers and wholesalers and retailers and what they can sell such items for with reasonable profits...not 5 times to 10 times more than the known prices relative to wholesale suppliers selling such items leading up to a fair value price.......like that...relative to what a fair retail price ( or competitive price ) should or could be in the existing market.

If the victims return home with the goods and have them appraised back in their home country, 9 times out of 10 the known and understood ( retail ) prices in their home country or their home town area is less and sometimes much less than what they paid in Thailand...for "supposedly" whole sale priced items...from a retail shop in Bangkok....as that is what they are told and convinced of.

Many of the scam gem and jewelry operators buy and sell loose stones and make their own jewelry items in house and have an existing wholesale trading operation, as Thailand is a hub for gem trading and gemstone cutting and polishing and jewelry manufacturing and that is their main business anyhow...while many of them are far from honorable legitimate traders to begin with amongst the thousands of legitimate and honest honorable gem trading companies or individuals that make up Thailand's well known and well established gem and jewelry manufacturing sector of the Thai export based economy

However many of them become involved in working with the many tourist touts that BRING the cliental to them for a fixed commission arrangement based on a bringing the foreigners for a "delivery fee" per person and or a percentage of the sales amount........or they will bring the clients to another pre arranged store who will gladly except foreigners and sell them items at very inflated prices...relative to their wholesale costs for the loose stones and the costs involved to make any jewelry items they have on hand and to be sold to a another wholesaler ( that is if you know gemstones and jewelry and what the real wholesale prices are, while that is your business to know while you bargain hard and make offers on the goods relative to knowing the wholesale prices you could buy the times for from many loose gemstone wholesalers and other jewelry suppliers )

The truth is: They are not sold fake items rather way over priced genuine items.

They are clever enough to sell you genuine items.....or they will include a description of the item stating it is Cubic Zirconia or Synthetic gems or man made gemstones....but still way over priced....after the huge discount they give to you telling you it is the last day of a special marketing campaign organized by the government with huge discounts for foreigners.....and it is your lucky day....yada, yada, yada.

They have several angles and a degree of coercion also that more or less intimidates the victims making them reluctantly buy something so "you" have not wasted ( their time ) being so generous to you and so "Thai people" friendly and all.

If you resist their sales efforts to get you to purchase something then they step up the routine by introducing you to the friendly Thai owner who will then work on you to convince you to buy the over priced goods and give you a further discount ..straight from the owners heart...lol....or what ever it takes to get you to buy something

In most cases the victims will go to the nearest tourist police or nearest regular police station ....but no matter which police station they contact near guaranteed the police have seen and heard of it before and unfortunately are in on the scam by way of letting it continue in their jurisdiction .

Sometimes the police help the people who are scammed get back part of their money if the victims really insist and do not back down and make a major issue out of getting back their money.

Occasionally some people get back their full refund but they go to great lengths to do so while they are continually thwarted and their time is continually wasted while most people do not have the time or patience to follow up and or confront the people relentlessly until they get back a refund.

Cheers

[kaorop]

Amazing how many criminals have been arrested since the coup. It seems that the Thaksin days (do whatever you want as long as I get my billions) are finally coming to an end.

Now, this is a good step, but please stop with the taky caused it all line, like those scams started the day he got in power and were completely

absent before.

[neeray]

I'm sure many TVF members have taken a cruise (big ship, thousand plus vacationers). Such a ship stops at many ports. The "full of crap" cruise director leads the passengers to certain jewelry boutiques which he/she says are the best, cheapest, most honest. Yeah right! In reality, the cruise lines is getting a kickback from these boutiques. Pretty similar to the Tuk Tuk effort.

Same scam s - - -, different vacation spot.

[tajtom]

Jokers you think where stupid right...

You finally rushed to the scene after Army came to power. You know and you know for a very long time... If you did not know about your own people you should not be in power.

The TUK TUK scam is decades old... The police are paid as well

Jokers LOL

[tajtom]

When do you want me to dance LOL..... Jokers

You had known about this decades old scam for ever and if you had not you should not be in charge !

TUK TUK are like on road criminals pushing tourists around dummies. The Army came into power so you rushed to the scene right

[arunsakda]

I knew about the gem scam and "Grand Palace closed" from reading Lonely Planet as a very young teenager in the 1980's. So on one of my first trips to BKK in the late 90's, just like the guidebooks said, I was approached by an elderly Thai gentleman (speaking perfect English) in a threadbare suit in front of Hualumphoung station..

We had a conversation where eventually I facetiously told him that I hated money and I did not want to buy gems in BKK and bring back to San Francisco to sell at a profit.

The man walked away in frustration hissing "You are stupid". Yeah, I'm stupid. Stupid enough to realize I cant tell an emerald from a broken piece of a Heineken bottle.

Wonder how many simps that old con artist scammed over the years?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited July 5, 2015 by arunsakda

[off road pat]

That has taken quite a few years to do.

Yep,....I remember they were doing this over 20 years ago,...about time they got caught...!!!

Some 28 years ago, tuk tuk drivers always wanted to drive me to gem stores....in BKK and it was the same in Chiang Mai...!!!

[off road pat]

I knew about the gem scam and "Grand Palace closed" from reading Lonely Planet as a very young teenager in the 1980's. So on one of my first trips to BKK in the late 90's, just like the guidebooks said, I was approached by an elderly Thai gentleman (speaking perfect English) in a threadbare suit in front of Hualumphoung station..

We had a conversation where eventually I facetiously told him that I hated money and I did not want to buy gems in BKK and bring back to San Francisco to sell at a profit.

The man walked away in frustration hissing "You are stupid". Yeah, I'm stupid. Stupid enough to realize I cant tell an emerald from a broken piece of a Heineken bottle.

Wonder how many simps that old con artist scammed over the years?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes,...I read the same lonely planet and went to see out of curiosity.....Just like you said, I also could not see the difference between a real and fake stone and still can't.....I rather spend my money travelling instead !!! I don't need useless gem stones or gold ....my Leatherman in my pocket is a lot more useful to me....around that time I also met a couple on honeymoon who got scammed for all there money. with the false promises they could sell the gems for a lot more in there country.....

Best regards.

Edited July 5, 2015 by off road pat

[off road pat]

When they bought the stones they were happy with their purchase so why did they go back for a refund?

They develop a sense of being either cheated or sold way over priced merchandise while having been more or less sweet talked into buying the loose stones or usually jewelry items and convinced they can make money reselling the goods they purchased back in their home country.

After the purchase, many people use the internet to find out they are a victim of the scam.

Also they worry the items are not genuine so they seek the advice of others and often enough learn about the numerous Gem Identification laboratories here in Bangkok that service the very large and legitimate gem and jewelry trade here in Thailand.

The gem identification laboratories can easily enough confirm the gemstones are genuine and or the jewelry is made using genuine gold or silver.

When asked what the fair price should be or could be the laboratories will not involve themselves in that aspect rather they ask how much did you pay for the items purchased.

Upon hearing the prices paid for the items in question they will inform the clients that they have paid: Far, far, far, far too much relative to what those sort of items can be obtained for relative to all the suppliers and wholesalers and retailers and what they can sell such items for with reasonable profits...not 5 times to 10 times more than the known prices relative to wholesale suppliers selling such items leading up to a fair value price.......like that...relative to what a fair retail price ( or competitive price ) should or could be in the existing market.

If the victims return home with the goods and have them appraised back in their home country, 9 times out of 10 the known and understood ( retail ) prices in their home country or their home town area is less and sometimes much less than what they paid in Thailand...for "supposedly" whole sale priced items...from a retail shop in Bangkok....as that is what they are told and convinced of.

Many of the scam gem and jewelry operators buy and sell loose stones and make their own jewelry items in house and have an existing wholesale trading operation, as Thailand is a hub for gem trading and gemstone cutting and polishing and jewelry manufacturing and that is their main business anyhow...while many of them are far from honorable legitimate traders to begin with amongst the thousands of legitimate and honest honorable gem trading companies or individuals that make up Thailand's well known and well established gem and jewelry manufacturing sector of the Thai export based economy

However many of them become involved in working with the many tourist touts that BRING the cliental to them for a fixed commission arrangement based on a bringing the foreigners for a "delivery fee" per person and or a percentage of the sales amount........or they will bring the clients to another pre arranged store who will gladly except foreigners and sell them items at very inflated prices...relative to their wholesale costs for the loose stones and the costs involved to make any jewelry items they have on hand and to be sold to a another wholesaler ( that is if you know gemstones and jewelry and what the real wholesale prices are, while that is your business to know while you bargain hard and make offers on the goods relative to knowing the wholesale prices you could buy the times for from many loose gemstone wholesalers and other jewelry suppliers )

The truth is: They are not sold fake items rather way over priced genuine items.

They are clever enough to sell you genuine items.....or they will include a description of the item stating it is Cubic Zirconia or Synthetic gems or man made gemstones....but still way over priced....after the huge discount they give to you telling you it is the last day of a special marketing campaign organized by the government with huge discounts for foreigners.....and it is your lucky day....yada, yada, yada.

They have several angles and a degree of coercion also that more or less intimidates the victims making them reluctantly buy something so "you" have not wasted ( their time ) being so generous to you and so "Thai people" friendly and all.

If you resist their sales efforts to get you to purchase something then they step up the routine by introducing you to the friendly Thai owner who will then work on you to convince you to buy the over priced goods and give you a further discount ..straight from the owners heart...lol....or what ever it takes to get you to buy something

In most cases the victims will go to the nearest tourist police or nearest regular police station ....but no matter which police station they contact near guaranteed the police have seen and heard of it before and unfortunately are in on the scam by way of letting it continue in their jurisdiction .

Sometimes the police help the people who are scammed get back part of their money if the victims really insist and do not back down and make a major issue out of getting back their money.

Occasionally some people get back their full refund but they go to great lengths to do so while they are continually thwarted and their time is continually wasted while most people do not have the time or patience to follow up and or confront the people relentlessly until they get back a refund.

Cheers

Excellent description of the scam,...All the guide books warn us about !!!

Regards.

Edited July 5, 2015 by off road pat

[arunsakda]

I knew about the gem scam and "Grand Palace closed" from reading Lonely Planet as a very young teenager in the 1980's. So on one of my first trips to BKK in the late 90's, just like the guidebooks said, I was approached by an elderly Thai gentleman (speaking perfect English) in a threadbare suit in front of Hualumphoung station..

We had a conversation where eventually I facetiously told him that I hated money and I did not want to buy gems in BKK and bring back to San Francisco to sell at a profit.

The man walked away in frustration hissing "You are stupid". Yeah, I'm stupid. Stupid enough to realize I cant tell an emerald from a broken piece of a Heineken bottle.

Wonder how many simps that old con artist scammed over the years?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes,...I read the same lonely planet and went to see out of curiosity.....Just like you said, I also could not see the difference between a real and fake stone and still can't.....I rather spend my money travelling instead !!! I don't need useless gem stones or gold ....my Leatherman in my pocket is a lot more useful to me....around that time I also met a couple on honeymoon who got scammed for all there money. with the false promises they could sell the gems for a lot more in there country.....

Best regards.

I also thanked the man for choosing to help me, as opposed to all the others he could have approached.

(To buy precious gems at a good price that I could unload easily at any jewelry shop in California, for a hefty profit.)

[lvr181]

That has taken quite a few years to do.

The thing is what exactly can they charge a jewelry store with?

If you buy what they are selling then too bad no one is putting a gun to your head.

Villa Supermarket charge more for most items than Foodland........Should they arrest the owner of Villa Supermarket? As much as you may like them to I think not.

All they can do is fine the tuk tuk drivers and spend a lot of time and money making sure they don't come back which simply is not feasible hence it will continue

The managers of the three gem stores have been charged with violating Thailand’s consumer protection law for inaccurate description of goods, and 21 tuk-tuk drivers have been arrested and charged with illegal parking and causing nuisance

Ladyboys next??

Ladyboys is an inaccurate description of goods?

[empireboy]

There's a sucker born every minute they say....

[sammygood]

only 20 years too late, but better than never, right ?

[tropo]

I thought 'exuberant' meant they were happy with the prices!

They were very happy with the price when they bought them.

How did they become unhappy with the prices they paid? Did they have them examined by a jeweler?

[bamukloy]

Only 21?

These are the ones that fell behind in their payments. It also eliminated the competition for the ones that were and created a photo op for the BIB. Everybody wins well no 1 side looses. But they could be on the winning side in the future if they mind their P's and Q's and $ sorry baht payments. The BIB is like a bank make your payment on time or we foreclose.

I surmise the urban myths are often greatly exagerated, simply because those who repeat the stories havent a shred of evidence, only the BS they read from another foreigner.

Having said that i have seen how the labour hierachy here in many ways is like a huge pyramid scheme.

I believe there are many job openings where the newcomers "contribute" to the outgoing guys retirement fund. I find nothing wrong with that however,as it keeps the big sharks out...or the western scams of insurance companies or superanuation. Many jobs you have to fork out 'security' money which they pay back to you along with a bonus after a certain term.

Things wont change, but the bigger wigs realise they have to do something to satisfy those pesky farangs sticking their big beaks in everything.

Probably more to the point the message for the new generation is "boys,were not bowing down to these farang ways..we just we just gotta go about things in different way"

Scams are rife in the west in almost every sector, but all is made legal and the sheeples are easily subdued.

Why should Thais change anything anyway. As for the scams go, the internet educates about just about every scam in existence.

If you are still so stupid to fall for them, maybe you shouldnt be travelling

Edited July 5, 2015 by bamukloy

[ableguy]

Amazing how many criminals have been arrested since the coup. It seems that the Thaksin days (do whatever you want as long as I get my billions) are finally coming to an end.

Never too many bibs involved too much money being made, the hub of scams where prostitution is illegal.

[bamukloy]

Amazing how many criminals have been arrested since the coup. It seems that the Thaksin days (do whatever you want as long as I get my billions) are finally coming to an end.

Never too many bibs involved too much money being made, the hub of scams where prostitution is illegal.

The difference is this: prostitution in Thailand more or less provides what the welfare system does in the west.

I dont get foreigners that are fascinated about the subject in Thailand. They actively take part in it, yet at the same time run the country down and talk about hypocrisy.

Look at some western countries laws and you'll see stuff like...

"Prostitution is not illegal, but to profit from it is"

Now If thats not pure bury your head in the sand hypocrisy, i dont know what is!

[neeray]

When they bought the stones they were happy with their purchase so why did they go back for a refund?

They develop a sense of being either cheated or sold way over priced merchandise while having been more or less sweet talked into buying the loose stones or usually jewelry items and convinced they can make money reselling the goods they purchased back in their home country.

After the purchase, many people use the internet to find out they are a victim of the scam.

Also they worry the items are not genuine so they seek the advice of others and often enough learn about the numerous Gem Identification laboratories here in Bangkok that service the very large and legitimate gem and jewelry trade here in Thailand.

The gem identification laboratories can easily enough confirm the gemstones are genuine and or the jewelry is made using genuine gold or silver.

When asked what the fair price should be or could be the laboratories will not involve themselves in that aspect rather they ask how much did you pay for the items purchased.

Upon hearing the prices paid for the items in question they will inform the clients that they have paid: Far, far, far, far too much relative to what those sort of items can be obtained for relative to all the suppliers and wholesalers and retailers and what they can sell such items for with reasonable profits...not 5 times to 10 times more than the known prices relative to wholesale suppliers selling such items leading up to a fair value price.......like that...relative to what a fair retail price ( or competitive price ) should or could be in the existing market.

If the victims return home with the goods and have them appraised back in their home country, 9 times out of 10 the known and understood ( retail ) prices in their home country or their home town area is less and sometimes much less than what they paid in Thailand...for "supposedly" whole sale priced items...from a retail shop in Bangkok....as that is what they are told and convinced of.

Many of the scam gem and jewelry operators buy and sell loose stones and make their own jewelry items in house and have an existing wholesale trading operation, as Thailand is a hub for gem trading and gemstone cutting and polishing and jewelry manufacturing and that is their main business anyhow...while many of them are far from honorable legitimate traders to begin with amongst the thousands of legitimate and honest honorable gem trading companies or individuals that make up Thailand's well known and well established gem and jewelry manufacturing sector of the Thai export based economy

However many of them become involved in working with the many tourist touts that BRING the cliental to them for a fixed commission arrangement based on a bringing the foreigners for a "delivery fee" per person and or a percentage of the sales amount........or they will bring the clients to another pre arranged store who will gladly except foreigners and sell them items at very inflated prices...relative to their wholesale costs for the loose stones and the costs involved to make any jewelry items they have on hand and to be sold to a another wholesaler ( that is if you know gemstones and jewelry and what the real wholesale prices are, while that is your business to know while you bargain hard and make offers on the goods relative to knowing the wholesale prices you could buy the times for from many loose gemstone wholesalers and other jewelry suppliers )

The truth is: They are not sold fake items rather way over priced genuine items.

They are clever enough to sell you genuine items.....or they will include a description of the item stating it is Cubic Zirconia or Synthetic gems or man made gemstones....but still way over priced....after the huge discount they give to you telling you it is the last day of a special marketing campaign organized by the government with huge discounts for foreigners.....and it is your lucky day....yada, yada, yada.

They have several angles and a degree of coercion also that more or less intimidates the victims making them reluctantly buy something so "you" have not wasted ( their time ) being so generous to you and so "Thai people" friendly and all.

If you resist their sales efforts to get you to purchase something then they step up the routine by introducing you to the friendly Thai owner who will then work on you to convince you to buy the over priced goods and give you a further discount ..straight from the owners heart...lol....or what ever it takes to get you to buy something

In most cases the victims will go to the nearest tourist police or nearest regular police station ....but no matter which police station they contact near guaranteed the police have seen and heard of it before and unfortunately are in on the scam by way of letting it continue in their jurisdiction .

Sometimes the police help the people who are scammed get back part of their money if the victims really insist and do not back down and make a major issue out of getting back their money.

Occasionally some people get back their full refund but they go to great lengths to do so while they are continually thwarted and their time is continually wasted while most people do not have the time or patience to follow up and or confront the people relentlessly until they get back a refund.

Cheers

Excellent description of the scam,...All the guide books warn us about !!!

Regards.

Too much information. Too verbose. No need for all the red emphasis.

Only the greedy and the stupid would buy into this gem game.

They deserve what they get.

[SiSePuede419]

Way to nip it in the bud!!!!

https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.fjcdn.com%2Fpictures%2FBarney%2BFife.%2Bwhite%2BIf%2Banyone%2Bused%2Bto%2Bwatch%2Bthis%2Bthey%2Bshould_066e80_4726983.jpg&t=554&c=5tx0tlCw9FFBow